104 réponses à ce sujet

[Inutaisho7996]

Ixalmaris wrote...

1136342t54 wrote...

Ixalmaris wrote...

Even when the Reapers do want to finish off earth for some idiotic (for a machine race) reason there are more efficient ways to do it than a ground assault. Bombarding the planat with Mass Drivers for a few days should be enough to practically kill every human there and to destroy the ecosphere.

As for the power of humanity, they still have the by far lowest number of Dreadnoughts of all council races. The rest of their military likely follows this trend. Not minor, but the weakest of the council races.

Reapers want to use humanity for a new Reaper not kill off the entire race. Earth has 11 billion people on it. Assuming that the Reapers only want a billion humans The way they are doing it is good enough. Land Reapers and Reaper agents on the planet to indoctrinate the populace. Human weaponry is unable to damage Reapers at least not enough to make them a problem.

If they want humans alive then they would be better served to leave earth alone till the war is won (shutting down the relay network).
Attacking earth first will only result in dead humans and they would have to divert resources from the war effort.

Not attacking Earth will lead to evacuations. Why travel the galaxy hunting for the humans in hiding when you know where 11 billion of them are right now?

Ixalmaris wrote...

1. The Omega IV Relay was not locked down, it did just send you into a "minefield" unless you had the IFF.

2.
With Shepard working for Cerberus and the rather short time between the
end of ME2 and the arrival of the Reapers it is highly unlikely that
any ship besides the Normandy posesses the Reaper IFF or even that
anyone knows of its existance. Its even unkown if replicating the IFF is
possible. And even if, a locked down galaxy would also prevent this
technology from spreading.

The reapers would still use the same IFF for locked down relays as they would for the Omega IV.

The IFF is just a specific signal the mass relays use to recognize them. That would be very easy to replicate unless every single reaper is connected to every single relay through quantum entanglement communication. The books and comics show that Cerberus has access to the Omega IV relay, and it would be too expensive to connect a fleet of research ships to the Omega IV through quantum enganglement. That means the IFF would probably be very easy to replicate.

Modifié par Inutaisho7996, 13 octobre 2011 - 07:28 .

[Ixalmaris]

Inutaisho7996 wrote...

Ixalmaris wrote...

1136342t54 wrote...

Ixalmaris wrote...

Even when the Reapers do want to finish off earth for some idiotic (for a machine race) reason there are more efficient ways to do it than a ground assault. Bombarding the planat with Mass Drivers for a few days should be enough to practically kill every human there and to destroy the ecosphere.

As for the power of humanity, they still have the by far lowest number of Dreadnoughts of all council races. The rest of their military likely follows this trend. Not minor, but the weakest of the council races.

Reapers want to use humanity for a new Reaper not kill off the entire race. Earth has 11 billion people on it. Assuming that the Reapers only want a billion humans The way they are doing it is good enough. Land Reapers and Reaper agents on the planet to indoctrinate the populace. Human weaponry is unable to damage Reapers at least not enough to make them a problem.

If they want humans alive then they would be better served to leave earth alone till the war is won (shutting down the relay network).
Attacking earth first will only result in dead humans and they would have to divert resources from the war effort.

Not attacking Earth will lead to evacuations. Why travel the galaxy hunting for the humans in hiding when you know where 11 billion of them are right now?

Evacuating 11 billion people? Good luck with that.
This would require millions of ships. Likely more than what exists in the entire galaxy.
Also when the relay network is down those people will go nowhere.

[Inutaisho7996]

Ixalmaris wrote...

Evacuating 11 billion people? Good luck with that.
This would require millions of ships. Likely more than what exists in the entire galaxy.
Also when the relay network is down those people will go nowhere.

How would the reapers shut down the relay network? The Citadel would be closed. The reapers would have to destroy the Citadel arms without harming the tower. With all the force it would take to actually break through the arms, there would be a lot of shrapnel going in every direction very fast, and keeping that away from the tower would be near impossible.

[Sgt Stryker]

Oh look it's this thread again.

The Reapers are probably picking up where the Collectors failed.

As far as not killing humans: Notice how they're all landing on Earth, rather than sitting pretty in orbit and launching asteroids or kinetic impactors into it?

Modifié par Sgt Stryker, 13 octobre 2011 - 07:50 .

[Ixalmaris]

Sgt Stryker wrote...

Oh look it's this thread again.

The Reapers are probably picking up where the Collectors failed.

Why?

As for the Reapers can't access the citadel. They build that place. They surely can access it in some way. And if not they just need to drill a hole into it and release enough husks to take it over.

[Il Divo]

Ixalmaris wrote...

Sgt Stryker wrote...

Oh look it's this thread again.

The Reapers are probably picking up where the Collectors failed.

Why?

As for the Reapers can't access the citadel. They build that place. They surely can access it in some way. And if not they just need to drill a hole into it and release enough husks to take it over.

By this logic, they should not have needed Sovereign to open the relay from the Citadel's side. As soon as the Council closes the arms, they have no way in.

[Dean_the_Young]

Ixalmaris wrote...

1. The Omega IV Relay was not locked down, it did just send you into a "minefield" unless you had the IFF.

And does the Citadel lock down relays to everyone, or just those without IFFs?

The Omega Relay relied on inacuracy, but we also know that the regular mass relays have hidden functions as well (the ability to be turned off, as well as Dark Switches).

2. With Shepard working for Cerberus and the rather short time between the end of ME2 and the arrival of the Reapers it is highly unlikely that any ship besides the Normandy posesses the Reaper IFF or even that anyone knows of its existance. Its even unkown if replicating the IFF is possible. And even if, a locked down galaxy would also prevent this technology from spreading.

Replicating the IFF has been established since ME2. Not only is it how Cerberus can claim the base in the first place (as opposed to a 'whoever Shepard flies over to', you can actually see Cerberus ships arrive at the Collector Base in a everyone-dies Renegade ending. Cerberus has also crossed the Omega 4 Relay since ME2, as related in most of the post-ME2 books and comics.

Since the requirements for replication are data transmission, shutting down the Relays would not stop the spread of the technology.

[LOLandStuff]

Since it's on their way might as well ransack it.

[lovgreno]

It would be a bad story if the reapers did a major goof up as they are supposed to be the big scary badguys in this story.

I suspect that the reapers hit the important targets like superpower homeworlds and the Citadel at the same time to demoralise the galaxy.

Harbringer is a huge fanboy/girl/spacesquid/spacechtulu/thingy so I'm not suprised if his first target is Earth.

[Wulfram]

Earth is probably more vital to Humanity than the Salarian and Turian homeworlds are to their species, simply because they've had so much longer to spread out. Thessia is a bit of a special case since it's got loads of Eezo, though that's only likely meaningful in a drawn out conflict.

But I'd guess Reaper priorities have more to do with Human slushies being particularly delicious.

[GMagnum]

but the prize

[Killjoy Cutter]

Ixalmaris wrote...

Inutaisho7996 wrote...

Ixalmaris wrote...

1136342t54 wrote...

Ixalmaris wrote...

Even when the Reapers do want to finish off earth for some idiotic (for a machine race) reason there are more efficient ways to do it than a ground assault. Bombarding the planat with Mass Drivers for a few days should be enough to practically kill every human there and to destroy the ecosphere.

As for the power of humanity, they still have the by far lowest number of Dreadnoughts of all council races. The rest of their military likely follows this trend. Not minor, but the weakest of the council races.

Reapers want to use humanity for a new Reaper not kill off the entire race. Earth has 11 billion people on it. Assuming that the Reapers only want a billion humans The way they are doing it is good enough. Land Reapers and Reaper agents on the planet to indoctrinate the populace. Human weaponry is unable to damage Reapers at least not enough to make them a problem.

If they want humans alive then they would be better served to leave earth alone till the war is won (shutting down the relay network).
Attacking earth first will only result in dead humans and they would have to divert resources from the war effort.

Not attacking Earth will lead to evacuations. Why travel the galaxy hunting for the humans in hiding when you know where 11 billion of them are right now?

Evacuating 11 billion people? Good luck with that.
This would require millions of ships. Likely more than what exists in the entire galaxy.
Also when the relay network is down those people will go nowhere.

You don't need the relay network for FTL travel, just efficient long-range travel.  Note how in both games so far you only use the relays for long distance travel between local groups of stars, and then use the Normandy's FTL capability for travel between closely located stars. 

The number of ships is another issue entirely. 


At any rate, if the Reapers are looking to harvest humans for the production of a Reaper, and cripple an arm of the resistance to the cycle-end culling, then attacking Earth is certainly not the senseless, pathetic maneuver you're making it out to be. 

[Ixalmaris]

Killjoy Cutter wrote...

You don't need the relay network for FTL travel, just efficient long-range travel.  Note how in both games so far you only use the relays for long distance travel between local groups of stars, and then use the Normandy's FTL capability for travel between closely located stars. 

The number of ships is another issue entirely. 


At any rate, if the Reapers are looking to harvest humans for the production of a Reaper, and cripple an arm of the resistance to the cycle-end culling, then attacking Earth is certainly not the senseless, pathetic maneuver you're making it out to be. 

And where should the humans go with just FTL?
Mars? That won't save them from the Reapers. Deep Space? That would be suicide.
Attacking earth is senseless when the Citadel offers a much safer and quicker way to win.

[Killjoy Cutter]

Ixalmaris wrote...

Killjoy Cutter wrote...

You don't need the relay network for FTL travel, just efficient long-range travel.  Note how in both games so far you only use the relays for long distance travel between local groups of stars, and then use the Normandy's FTL capability for travel between closely located stars. 

The number of ships is another issue entirely. 


At any rate, if the Reapers are looking to harvest humans for the production of a Reaper, and cripple an arm of the resistance to the cycle-end culling, then attacking Earth is certainly not the senseless, pathetic maneuver you're making it out to be. 

And where should the humans go with just FTL?
Mars? That won't save them from the Reapers. Deep Space? That would be suicide.
Attacking earth is senseless when the Citadel offers a much safer and quicker way to win.

Or you've just made up your mind to criticize this aspect and don't want to hear anything that mitigates your criticism...

The Normandy and other ships routinely make interstellar trips via shipboard FTL drive, without using a mass relay, that are far longer than the distance to many of Sol's neighbors.  One of the hiccups in the lore is the implication that humans never used FTL to reach those close-at-hand stars before the discovery of the Charon relay. 

http://en.wikipedia....f_nearest_stars

The Reapers aren't stupid,  they're arrogant and/or fanatic.  They cannot comprehend that anyone could actually stop them. 

[Ixalmaris]

Killjoy Cutter wrote...

Or you've just made up your mind to criticize this aspect and don't want to hear anything that mitigates your criticism...

The Normandy and other ships routinely make interstellar trips via shipboard FTL drive, without using a mass relay, that are far longer than the distance to many of Sol's neighbors.  One of the hiccups in the lore is the implication that humans never used FTL to reach those close-at-hand stars before the discovery of the Charon relay. 

http://en.wikipedia....f_nearest_stars

The Reapers aren't stupid,  they're arrogant and/or fanatic.  They cannot comprehend that anyone could actually stop them. 

Source or just fanboy rambling?
Even at twice the speed of light traveling to the nearest star with no habitable planets will take 2 years.
Good luck getting 11 billion people there alive.

And when the Reapers can't comprehend that someone can beat them they would not have set up such a elaborate trap.
End after suffering two setbacks they certainly will have realized that they are not invulnerable.

[Dean_the_Young]

The source that non-relay exists in the Mass Effect universe is... Mass Effect 1 and 2. Where Shepard and the Normandy use FTL to go from relay-systems to systems where no relays are.

In ME2, we actually drive the little Normandy around as we go from system to system.

[Lord Jaric]

Because a human has been a pain in the ass for them.

[Ixalmaris]

Dean_the_Young wrote...

The source that non-relay exists in the Mass Effect universe is... Mass Effect 1 and 2. Where Shepard and the Normandy use FTL to go from relay-systems to systems where no relays are.

In ME2, we actually drive the little Normandy around as we go from system to system.

Intra system, not between systems.

[Reiella]

I think it's because humanity has demonstrated being the most pressing threat to their goal.  Sure it's because the protagonist happens to be human, but *shrug*.  The cinematics will tell the story!

[Dean_the_Young]

Ixalmaris wrote...

Dean_the_Young wrote...

The source that non-relay exists in the Mass Effect universe is... Mass Effect 1 and 2. Where Shepard and the Normandy use FTL to go from relay-systems to systems where no relays are.

In ME2, we actually drive the little Normandy around as we go from system to system.

Intra system, not between systems.

No, between systems. Intrasystem travel would be if they never left the same solar system, but traveling between galactc sectors to different solar systems is what we do with most of our travel.

Heretic station is explictly noted as being in the dark space between solar systems... notably between one with the Mass Relay and another one with elcor colonization.

[marstor05]

because while in darkspace, an ancient transmission of the film 'Mars Attacks' came to their attention - having travelled years through space. They figure that it looked like fun and they wouldnt mind having a go at some of those jolly capers themselves.

Attaching a womans head to a dog. Brilliant.

[Killjoy Cutter]

Ixalmaris wrote...

Killjoy Cutter wrote...

Or you've just made up your mind to criticize this aspect and don't want to hear anything that mitigates your criticism...

The Normandy and other ships routinely make interstellar trips via shipboard FTL drive, without using a mass relay, that are far longer than the distance to many of Sol's neighbors.  One of the hiccups in the lore is the implication that humans never used FTL to reach those close-at-hand stars before the discovery of the Charon relay. 

http://en.wikipedia....f_nearest_stars

The Reapers aren't stupid,  they're arrogant and/or fanatic.  They cannot comprehend that anyone could actually stop them. 

Source or just fanboy rambling?
Even at twice the speed of light traveling to the nearest star with no habitable planets will take 2 years.
Good luck getting 11 billion people there alive.

Play the damn games, you do it countless times in the Normandy, and other ships do it as well. 

All those stars you have to travel between, and you don't use a relay?  What do you think that is?  Do you think you're taking 2+ years to travel from the Citadel to Beckenstein, and 2+ years to make the return trip, when you're doing Kasumi's LM? 

"Fanboy rambling?"  Go intercourse yourself. 

Your ranting about what the Reapers should and should not do rings very hollow when you don't even know the most basic facets of the setting you're ranting about. 

Modifié par Killjoy Cutter, 13 octobre 2011 - 09:18 .

[Dean_the_Young]

FTL also has its own codex in the game, the ME wiki linked below. It's where the phrase 'blue-shifted' comes from when mentioned in ME2 when denoting something very fast. It's conventional FTL, not Mass Relays, that also build up the eloctromagnetic charge that makes charge-dumping on atmosphere an established part of the lore, and a common mention in planet data scans. Engineer Adams talks about how FTL doesn't work with the Normandy's stealth systems.

http://masseffect.wikia.com/wiki/FTL

[Killjoy Cutter]

Dean_the_Young wrote...

The source that non-relay exists in the Mass Effect universe is... Mass Effect 1 and 2. Where Shepard and the Normandy use FTL to go from relay-systems to systems where no relays are.

In ME2, we actually drive the little Normandy around as we go from system to system.

^ THIS.

[Dean_the_Young]

Also, the galactic geography is broken by heirarchies.

Galaxy : Galactic Cluster : System : Planets

Galactic clusters are what the primary relays are used for. Those are the blue circles on the map.

Conventional FTL is used to travel to the individual systems in a cluster. Most clusters in ME have at least two different systems to travel to. The primary clusters that have not had other systems is the Local Cluster (where we only travel the Sol system, though we know from CDN that there is local exploration as well), and the cluster that Horizon is a part of.

Flying between planets is intra-system travel. Flying between systems is inter-system travel.



As a final note, found this bit from CDN. There's a story-arc of a pre-FTL, pre-Contact colony in the Alpha Centari system being found by the post-FTL galaxy.

Modifié par Dean_the_Young, 13 octobre 2011 - 09:29 .