121 réponses à ce sujet

[Black Raptor]

Bogsnot1 wrote...

Black Raptor wrote...
Seriously, if every "hardcore" rpg fan had complete control over the devs then the only difference between any rpg game would be the spelling for the word "ork".

You know thats not true. There is also the halfling/hin/hobbit debate, dwarfen/dwarven, and elfin/elven. 

My bad 

[Taciter]

Black Raptor wrote...
As far as analogies go, that DS9 one was the worst I've ever seen, and I get into arguments with creationists.

The Co-op mode is entirely optional. You don't want to play it? You don't have to play it. It's not like you'll be missing out on anything since it's clearly not catered to you anyway...

I used the DS9 analogy to better illustrate an argument that clearly you still have some difficulty in grasping though I confess, the relevance of creationism is lost on me.

If you can't understand the DS9 analogy then you're either incapable of empathy, absurdly narcissistic or just willfully antagonistic. You keep referring to co-op as being 'optional' as though it's some sort side dish offered as a gratuity for loyal patronage. This 'optional' side dish will contain assets pertaining to 'Mass Effect' - potential codex entries, dialogues, cinematic cut-scenes, intriguing new characters, plot developments, retrospectives, you name it.. any or all of the above.

Regardless of whether I like MP or not, I want to experience THAT content but I don't want to have sacrifice the immersion of solo play. There is nothing more grounding than having to acknowledge the existence of other 'players' in your escapist fantasy. Suddenly, you can't dictate your own progression, some charge ahead, some procrastinate. Some talk to much, some don't talk at all and throughout it all, I'm conscious that I'm no longer in the universe of 'Mass Effect', I'm playing a game with a complete stranger with whom I have nothing in common.

Now you clearly subscribe to an entirely different philosophy and you're entitled to but don't presume to hypothesise what sort of game mechanic caters to my tastes. I want to experience the content that you'll experience but I don't want to have to team up with other human players to do so hence my suggestion to include AI controlled squad members as an 'option' (since you're so keen on the word). And since such a suggestion would have no impact on your multiplayer experience, I don't see what the problem is.. unless of course you object to the idea that MP cynics should have as much fun as you?

[Taciter]

Double-post

Modifié par Taciter, 14 octobre 2011 - 10:40 .

[Taciter]

Bogsnot1 wrote...

Taciter wrote...
Oh sure, IF the 'optional' experience CAN be performed solo then great but as I said before, rumours abound of hard-coded co-op objectives that require simultaneous yet independent objectives to be completed give me sufficient cause for concern.. that would essentially preclude any possibility of solo play.

Check out the FAQ I whipped up in the ME3 forum. Among the many questions asked was the possibility of soloing the MP side of thnigs,  and Brennon Holmes came with an answer to the affirmative.

Yeah, I followed your thread Bogsnot... it was very nicely done!

My mind was certainly put at ease when I read the answers you posted but then the rumour cropped up regarding this issue of concurrent objectives - that you would NEED an ally to undertake the other objective (e.g. the terminal hack scenario)

That's the only concern I have left.. if that could be answered possitively, I'd shut the f*** up and save Raptor from an embolism!

Modifié par Taciter, 14 octobre 2011 - 10:42 .

[Bogsnot1]

Thanks.
Given the way that a lot of people are actually calling to solo capability, either because they dont have decent internet access, or just want the extra challenge I would say that the solo mode will remain, even if it does mean we would have to pick a certain class for it.
ie: Tech skills required, so solo mode would mean having to use Engineer, Sentinel or Infiltrator only. That, or they bring back omnigel that you can just slap on everything.

[Black Raptor]

Taciter wrote...

Black Raptor wrote...
As far as analogies go, that DS9 one was the worst I've ever seen, and I get into arguments with creationists.

The Co-op mode is entirely optional. You don't want to play it? You don't have to play it. It's not like you'll be missing out on anything since it's clearly not catered to you anyway...

I used the DS9 analogy to better illustrate an argument that clearly you still have some difficulty in grasping though I confess, the relevance of creationism is lost on me.

If you can't understand the DS9 analogy then you're either incapable of empathy, absurdly narcissistic or just willfully antagonistic. You keep referring to co-op as being 'optional' as though it's some sort side dish offered as a gratuity for loyal patronage. This 'optional' side dish will contain assets pertaining to 'Mass Effect' - potential codex entries, dialogues, cinematic cut-scenes, intriguing new characters, plot developments, retrospectives, you name it.. any or all of the above.

It's a poor analogy because what you are referencing is an occasion where everybody is forced to do the same thing regardless to whether they want it or not. (ie you enjoy DS9, now you have to watch australian soap actors in it.) 
You do not have to play the Co-op. Nobody and no-thing is going to force you. Your argument seems to be that, because you don't want to play Co-op, you are going to miss out on Co-op related missions and cut-scenes. How is that even an argument? You can't have it both ways. 

Regardless of whether I like MP or not, I want to experience THAT content but I don't want to have sacrifice the immersion of solo play. There is nothing more grounding than having to acknowledge the existence of other 'players' in your escapist fantasy. Suddenly, you can't dictate your own progression, some charge ahead, some procrastinate. Some talk to much, some don't talk at all and throughout it all, I'm conscious that I'm no longer in the universe of 'Mass Effect', I'm playing a game with a complete stranger with whom I have nothing in common.

Or you could just play with a friend. If you truely dislike random people so much then you could always play with people you know. Ultimately you could just imagine that you are playing SP but your team-mates aren't so predictable and stupid(or not). In other words, it could make the game more immersive.

Now you clearly subscribe to an entirely different philosophy and you're entitled to but don't presume to hypothesise what sort of game mechanic caters to my tastes. I want to experience the content that you'll experience but I don't want to have to team up with other human players to do so hence my suggestion to include AI controlled squad members as an 'option' (since you're so keen on the word). And since such a suggestion would have no impact on your multiplayer experience, I don't see what the problem is.. unless of course you object to the idea that MP cynics should have as much fun as you?

I have no opinion on the inclusion of bots for the Co-op mode. I wouldn't care either way as it wouldn't affect my enjoyment of the game. 
Frankly I can't see why such bots wouldn't be included and, as far as I'm aware, bioware hasn't commented one way or the other. 

Modifié par Black Raptor, 14 octobre 2011 - 11:04 .

[Taciter]

Now you see... that's the sort of answer I was looking for. Cheers Bogsnot, I realise you're just speculating but given how long you've been frequenting these forums, I'm happy to assume your opinion on faith.

I'll look forward to hearing more as further developments are announced. Cheers guys

Modifié par Taciter, 14 octobre 2011 - 11:19 .

[CroGamer002]

If you really know Bioware roots, you will know that half of their games have multiplayer.
And that their very first game is not an RPG, but Sci-Fi Mech simulator Shattered Steel while their 3rd game is a pure Third Person Shooter MDK2.

[Taciter]

Black Raptor wrote...
You do not have to play the Co-op. Nobody and no-thing is going to force you. Your argument seems to be that, because you don't want to play Co-op, you are going to miss out on Co-op related missions and cut-scenes. How is that even an argument? You can't have it both ways.

I was using the act of 'fast-forwarding' through the 'soapy' bits as an analogy for 'opting out' of the MP content. You don't 'have' to watch the soap act, you have a fast forward button on the remote but doing so would feel as though you were missing out on content relevant to the plot, irrespective of whether the conclusion stood up on it's own without the support of the 'soapy' scenes.

Black Raptor wrote...
Or you could just play with a friend. If you truely dislike random people so much then you could always play with people you know. Ultimately you could just imagine that you are playing SP but your team-mates aren't so predictable and stupid(or not). In other words, it could make the game more immersive.

I understand your argument Raptor, I've played many MMO's and multiplayers throughout many years and I can understand the appeal on some level but I've become too selfish and impatient to work to other people's schedules. As I get older, I become more selective about which friends I stay in touch with and as my friends roster dwindles, so do the number of suitable candidates for co-op gaming and of those, which one's can I pursuade to purchase 'Mass Effect 3' and can I be bothered to 'arrange' a mutually convenient time in which to undertake these assorted missions. It tires me out just thinking about it.

Black Raptor wrote...
I have no opinion on the inclusion of bots for the Co-op mode. I wouldn't care either way as it wouldn't affect my enjoyment of the game. 
Frankly I can't see why such bots wouldn't be included and, as far as I'm aware, bioware hasn't commented one way or the other. 

And really, that's all the endorsement I was looking for! I realise the liklihood of bots being included is remote but if what Bogsnot theorises may happen with regards to solo play comes into effect, I will feel fully placated and my concerns quashed.

Modifié par Taciter, 14 octobre 2011 - 11:20 .

[Black Raptor]

Taciter wrote...

Black Raptor wrote...
You do not have to play the Co-op. Nobody and no-thing is going to force you. Your argument seems to be that, because you don't want to play Co-op, you are going to miss out on Co-op related missions and cut-scenes. How is that even an argument? You can't have it both ways.

I was using the act of 'fast-forwarding' through the 'soapy' bits as an analogy for 'opting out' of the MP content. You don't 'have' to watch the soap act, you have a fast forward button on the remote but doing so would feel as though you were missing out on content relevant to the plot, irrespective of whether the conclusion stood up on it's own without the support of the 'soapy' scenes.

That implies you are going out of your way to avoid something you don't want to see. A better analogy would be having a "press the red button for soap" occur during the title song. 

And really, that's all the endorsement I was looking for! I realise the liklihood of bots being included is remote but if what Bogsnot theorises may happen with regards to solo play comes into effect, I will feel fully placated and my concerns quashed.

It would surprise me if ME3 didn't come with bots for the co-op. As a primarily SP game, they must know that many people don't want to have exclusive MP scenarios related to the plot. 

[Taciter]

Black Raptor wrote...
That implies you are going out of your way to avoid something you don't want to see. A better analogy would be having a "press the red button for soap" occur during the title song.

lol..... if you want it to be a red button Raptor, a button of the deepest crimson red it shall be!

Black Raptor wrote...
It would surprise me if ME3 didn't come with bots for the co-op. As a primarily SP game, they must know that many people don't want to have exclusive MP scenarios related to the plot. 

This is my hope... of all the possible solutions.. this would be my dream scenario. It would be like magically zapping several new single player missions into the game... perfect! The MP'ers would have their fun and the SP'ers would have no cause for complaint. The perfect compromise!

[008Zulu]

Co-op is what the devs do when they can't fix the A.I problems.

ME's multiplayer is completely optional, which I like. They said it's just another way to complete the single player game by making sure you have more allies. My question is;

Will you be able to get just as many allies if its strictly single player? Any answer other than "Yes" would feel like we are being robbed of the complete experience.

[Black Raptor]

008Zulu wrote...

Co-op is what the devs do when they can't fix the A.I problems.

ME's multiplayer is completely optional, which I like. They said it's just another way to complete the single player game by making sure you have more allies. My question is;

Will you be able to get just as many allies if its strictly single player? Any answer other than "Yes" would feel like we are being robbed of the complete experience.

Single player and MP are completely different.

Co-op missions are optional side missions played with completely new characters doing their own thing. SP will be the continuation of your Shepard's story. 

You don't play Co-op with your Shepard or any of his squaddies. 

[Doriath]

Black Raptor wrote...

You don't play Co-op with your Shepard or any of his squaddies. 

That part is what is going to make me play it. I didn't like the idea of multiplayer coop or competitve) but the chracter customization has raised my interest significantly.

[IBPROFEN]

Hallusinaatti wrote...

I stopped having faith in BioWare after DA2, but I still have some hope that Mass Effect 3 will be carried out successfully with the first two games' success in mind. They know what the fans want.

Maybe it's just EA sucking all the blood out of them.

Nice point on EA. If you notice the trailers it is EA first and Bioware second. In ME1 & 2 it was Bioware first.

The only down side I see with co-op, is if its done like IWNet(peer2peer). Where your game can be modded by the host of the game. That happen to me in MW2, they changed all my weapons,and max out my levels. So, it's going to be hard for me to join in a co-op with peer2peer game.

  Sorry Bogsnot1 just seen your Q & A:   Q) Will it be Peer to Peer, or Client-Server based? Soul Cool
A) Server/Client

Modifié par IBPROFEN, 14 octobre 2011 - 09:29 .

[Black Raptor]

IBPROFEN wrote...
Nice point on EA. If you notice the trailers it is EA first and Bioware second. In ME1 & 2 it was Bioware first.

It's a conspiracy I tells ye!!1

[d1sciple]

again everyone defending the co op move is disregarding the fact that this is a series(and what will be a 5 year epic by march) based on a strictly SP design and that to introduce something on this scale is going to disenfranchise a few people and that that is totally fair.
it's not a bout whining or trying to have it both ways, some people are afraid that this new development will exclude them from a large part of the game and don't think that's fair to the going-on-5-year fans of the series that enjoyed the intense SP immersive experiance that is ME.

Modifié par d1sciple, 14 octobre 2011 - 11:00 .

[Taciter]

d1sciple wrote...

again everyone defending the co op move is disregarding the fact that this is a series(and what will be a 5 year epic by march) based on a strictly SP design and that to introduce something on this scale is going to disenfranchise a few people and that that is totally fair.
it's not a bout whining or trying to have it both ways, some people are afraid that this new development will exclude them from a large part of the game and don't think that's fair to the going-on-5-year fans of the series that enjoyed the intense SP immersive experiance that is ME.

I felt the same way d1sciple and I still have some apprehensions but I think it's important that we try to put aside our feelings of betrayal and start mustering support for things we CAN do to compensate or we'll miss the window of opportunity and lose out on all fronts.

I suggest we try to coordinate our efforts to shift the Bioware dev team's focus to consider the possibility of incorporating a squad AI mechanic to the MP options. In essence, this would convert MP games in to single player side-quiests for those who want it.. virtually identical to to normal SP play. That would be a compromise I would happilly entertain but I can't catch people's attention as a lone voice.

[d1sciple]

it could be good, right now no one really knows though. i've got my fears but am no way judging anything yet, to do so either way is kinda ridiculous taken the little amount of info we have, still i've got no problem airing those fears.
i dunno bout changing the devs plans man, i've got a feeling this is something that might of been planned right from the start of ME.

[Bogsnot1]

IBPROFEN wrote...
Nice point on EA. If you notice the trailers it is EA first and Bioware second. In ME1 & 2 it was Bioware first.

Well, EA do own Bioware now, so its just following the same standard that you see every time you see a movie.

Movie Studio (publisher) comes before Production house (developer)

[ACF76]

 I'm not fan of the online aspect either but it's not a reason to personally boycott it. You don't need to play it, stop your whining and buy the game of the year for 2012. 

Modifié par ACF76, 15 octobre 2011 - 06:41 .

[008Zulu]

What will kill this game for me is if it requires Origin.

[Hallusinaatti]

008Zulu wrote...

What will kill this game for me is if it requires Origin.

Of course it will. Origin is here to stay. The only reason EA exists is to impose rules and force gamers to submit to their commercial imperialism.

[Black Raptor]

Hallusinaatti wrote...

008Zulu wrote...

What will kill this game for me is if it requires Origin.

Of course it will. Origin is here to stay. The only reason EA exists is to impose rules and force gamers to submit to their commercial imperialism.

Origin exists to control the rampent piracy that goes on with all PC games. 

[Hallusinaatti]

Black Raptor wrote...
Origin exists to control the rampent piracy that goes on with all PC games. 

Allegedly.
The only thing Origin will do to prevent piracy is to delay it with a few days, and maybe scare off a few new-to-computahs kids.
Preventing piracy does not need Origin spying on computers of those who did or did not legally buy the product. Nothing stops it but controlling piracy needs fresh-product privileges, need to have registered product to access forums (as BioWare and many others have done), and other exclusive benefits.

We've seen so many times that some silly security protocols won't stop a problem. It's curing fever with a bag of ice - makes you feel good but doesn't remove the problem.