121 réponses à ce sujet

[Ace of Dawn]

Hallusinaatti wrote...
I understand you point but all I'm saying is that there are probably a limited amount of dollars in developing the game and all the dollars spent on co-op could be spent on perfecting single player even further.

That argument bugs me to no end.

Yes, in all likeliness, a portion of their budget went to the co-op. So?

When anyone is developing something, a budget is created so as to account for all things involved. If Co-Op was intended from the start, then money was set aside from EA to be allocated specifically for multiplayer. It's not like EA said "You only have 10 million (random number, no idea what a realistic figure is), how are you going to spend it?"

No, they went to Bioware and asked what they thought would be the reasonable number. Obviously there would be back and forth, but there would always be allocations. If multiplayer cost 2 million out of that 10 million to produce, it's not like Bioware would have been able to ask for and justify that full 10 million. They maybe would have gotten a bit more than 8 million, but probably just to justify something else.

And maybe it wasn't intended from the start. Maybe they had a decent sized budget, but only went through part of it, and had some left over. They figured with that extra bit of money they could try the Co-Op. That money was not going to single-player anyway, it was just left over.

In the end, you're technically right. If they had more money, they could probably improve things. But they don't have an infinite budget, so they had already planned the basics of the game and outlined what was and wasn't going to be done. Yes, things get cut and changed through development, but even stuff like that is expected from a financial scale.

Really, the game will never be perfect. And if it is bad, then Bioware messed up. But I can guarantee you that it wasn't because they had less money to throw at the solution. That belief simply doesn't make sense.

I woud be more upset about the cut content and dropped ideas that were pursued since *they* dipped into the SP budget and nothing was gained from it. There is probably plenty of areas, characters, mechanics, powers, dialogue, and ideas that a decent bit of money was invested into that we will never get to see. It's what happens. And those are what take away from the single player investment time. But you never hear people complain about that. No. Because you'd either be insane or hilariously demanding.

So yeah, short end. Co-op doesn't detract from Single Player financially in any significant way. The game will be at near "perfect" levels when it's released. Throwing more money won't enhance it, contrary to what you may think.

[008Zulu]

Black Raptor wrote...

Origin exists to control the rampent piracy that goes on with all PC games. 

So they are punishing us to get the guilty few? Thats about as effective as nuking a city to get a few murderers.

[CAPSLOCK FURY]

008Zulu wrote...

Black Raptor wrote...

Origin exists to control the rampent piracy that goes on with all PC games. 

So they are punishing us to get the guilty few? Thats about as effective as nuking a city to get a few murderers.

How many publishers aren't doing that? The only game that I can recall in recent memory that didn't have an extremely intrusive DRM is Witcher 2. They'll keep using the piracy arguement as a crutch for it as long as they possibly can. The entire thing is blown way out of proportion, and it will never cross their minds that if piracy really is on the rise, it's most likely because the quality of games is going down.

Modifié par CAPSLOCK FURY, 19 octobre 2011 - 03:22 .

[Ace of Dawn]

CAPSLOCK FURY wrote...

The entire thing is blown way out of proportion, and it will never cross their minds that if piracy really is on the rise, it's most likely because the quality of games is going down.

http://www.digital-d...d-The-Most.html
http://www.makeuseof...ted-games-time/

Really, your argument that the quality of games is going down is unfounded. Piracy has always existed, it's just that more and more people are becoming aware of how to do so.

[Black Raptor]

PC gaming would be dead if it wasn't for DRM.

You should love it or buy an xbox

[CAPSLOCK FURY]

Ace of Dawn wrote...
Really, your argument that the quality of games is going down is unfounded. Piracy has always existed, it's just that more and more people are becoming aware of how to do so.

LOL.

I never once stated that Piracy didn't always exist and I can probably find news articles that say exactly what I just said too. If these articles took the time to actually show where they are getting these numbers then I might bite. "Oh we checked Bittorrent" ok fine, was it the Russian version? Regardless, the point was NOT that piracy was rampant or whatever else you want to try and make up, it's that they need a scapegoat. First it was piracy, now it's used games and piracy and their measures cause more problems for legit players than the pirates. Anything else you would like to take out of context?

Valve has already proven that quality equals sales. Russia is the piracy capital of the world because developers don't localize for russian well. The pirates were actually doing a service there. Now it is Valve's second largest market in that half of the world. I guess that's unfounded too.

Black Raptor wrote...

PC gaming would be dead if it wasn't for DRM.

You should love it or buy an xbox

Witcher 2

[Black Raptor]

CAPSLOCK FURY wrote...

Ace of Dawn wrote...
Really, your argument that the quality of games is going down is unfounded. Piracy has always existed, it's just that more and more people are becoming aware of how to do so.

LOL.

I never once stated that Piracy didn't always exist and I can probably find news articles that say exactly what I just said too. If these articles took the time to actually show where they are getting these numbers then I might bite. "Oh we checked Bittorrent" ok fine, was it the Russian version? Regardless, the point was NOT that piracy was rampant or whatever else you want to try and make up, it's that they need a scapegoat. First it was piracy, now it's used games and piracy and their measures cause more problems for legit players than the pirates. Anything else you would like to take out of context?

Valve has already proven that quality equals sales. Russia is the piracy capital of the world because developers don't localize for russian well. The pirates were actually doing a service there. Now it is Valve's second largest market in that half of the world. I guess that's unfounded too.

What is steam if not some form of DRM?

[Foryou]

Your lost

[Ace of Dawn]

CAPSLOCK FURY wrote...

Ace of Dawn wrote...
Really, your argument that the quality of games is going down is unfounded. Piracy has always existed, it's just that more and more people are becoming aware of how to do so.

LOL.

I never once stated that Piracy didn't always exist and I can probably find news articles that say exactly what I just said too. If these articles took the time to actually show where they are getting these numbers then I might bite. "Oh we checked Bittorrent" ok fine, was it the Russian version? Regardless, the point was NOT that piracy was rampant or whatever else you want to try and make up, it's that they need a scapegoat. First it was piracy, now it's used games and piracy and their measures cause more problems for legit players than the pirates. Anything else you would like to take out of context?

Valve has already proven that quality equals sales. Russia is the piracy capital of the world because developers don't localize for russian well. The pirates were actually doing a service there. Now it is Valve's second largest market in that half of the world. I guess that's unfounded too.

Black Raptor wrote...

PC gaming would be dead if it wasn't for DRM.

You should love it or buy an xbox

Witcher 2

Still though, claiming quality is dropping is a bold statement in it of itself. What quality? Storytelling? Gameplay? Longevity? Genre? Originality? I could argue that the quality of games has actually *improved* where as our expectations as consumers has grown out of control.

But as stated, Steam is in it of itself another route to avoid piracy. Just an effective one.

Modifié par Ace of Dawn, 20 octobre 2011 - 12:16 .

[Tonymac]

Claiming a 'ruination' of a game thats not out yet is pretty crazy. How can you judge it when you have not seen it. Try to be slightly more open minded about this.

I also believe that the developers and company have the right to protect their investment and make sure that each copy legitamately sold is valid. Personally, I do not pirate games, but I do not expect everyone to be decent. People tend to take the path of least resistance, and that may well include piracy. I expect comanies to defend against this.

[Taciter]

This debate is going nowhere! The two camps are firmly entrenched and there will be no DMZ.

For my part, any one who owns a PC, buys their games legally and STILL enthusiastically supports draconian DRM implementations needs to stop being such a feeble and sanctimonious doormat.

Since we're all justifying our positions based on subjective opinions and dubious statistics, I'll throw another link in for our collective edification...

Another view of game piracy

Modifié par Taciter, 20 octobre 2011 - 12:46 .

[d1sciple]

anyone out there have console piracy numbers to compare?

i know mod chips are legal here(NZ), i'm not sure about anywhere else but it's not a restricted postage item to OZ as i sent a friend a modded Xbox i got in an auction for his kids bday. he told me there's a few sites out there with backups available for download.

seems it's easy to track anything to do with a PC but i can hire a game, copy it on any POS PC and play it on my generic console with an installed generic mod chip, all of which is untraceable and known to no one but myself. i can then sell more copies of the game to kids at my nephews school, hell i can even mod their consoles for them , it's easy and that way much like a drug dealer i'm creating a stable client base.

[EliteGamer1971]

People should become exasperated over wording. BioWare had announced that there will be no competitive play and that it would be strictly be Cooperative Play only. They should have just stated Cooperative Play instead of adding Multiplayer to that.

I really don't believe it will harm the game, as long as they stay away from the competitive side of things, but wording things as they have can cause panic amongst the masses. Wording can change the definition of anything and what we have here is a failure to communicate from BioWare to its fan base. Webster's dictionary, helpful in all situations......

[PHub88]

The addition of multiplayer has also made me ultimately decide not to buy ME3 or any other Bioware game. I can see which way the wind is blowing and its just obvious not to expect that over the top quality that Bioware came to be known for anymore. Im not going to be optimistic for a game with the same development time as the previous, PLUS a multiplayer. Especially in a time where %95 of games that have MP CLEARLY hurt the SP.

I didn't think I could ever ENJOY a game the way I did with Fallout 3 and Oblivion. But then I played Dragon Age Origins. Everything about Origins just blew me away and I could never get over how it kept surprising me at just how FAR they would go to make it better. That game could have been half as good as it was and it would still make my top 5 favorite games.

When I played DA2, words can't describe how let down I was. It pretty much destroyed the series for me in the same way RE5 murdered the RE series for me, absolutely nothing like the games that made it famous. It went from so much excitement to just pure dread as if the game was just dead all together. Amazed at how just about every SINGLE aspect of the game was worse. I went from loving DA and buying the books to not even giving the slightest crap about news about DLC or DA3.

But what else is there to say. Its clear EA is the real killer here, but Bioware made that decision so I don't support them anymore. Its not a grudge, just just mere common sense...there is NO reason to expect anything other than typical nonsense from them anymore. EVERY SINGLE game they make from now on out would be better and deeper in every aspect had they NOT been with EA.

[zuluthrone]

This discussion is childish and pathetic. Save your judgement for after you've played.

[d1sciple]

zuluthrone wrote...

This discussion is childish and pathetic. Save your judgement for after you've played.

might as well just scrap the whole forum taken that's it's 90% baseless opinions.

[008Zulu]

Good thing then that we here in Australia still have privacy laws. Might take a little research but I am fairly certain what is stated in the Origin EULA rubs some of these laws a little too closely for EA's liking.

Still, if there's a will there's a way.

[dch47]

Ace of Dawn said it better than I could've. Read his comment on the top of this page.

[Black Raptor]

d1sciple wrote...

anyone out there have console piracy numbers to compare?

i know mod chips are legal here(NZ), i'm not sure about anywhere else but it's not a restricted postage item to OZ as i sent a friend a modded Xbox i got in an auction for his kids bday. he told me there's a few sites out there with backups available for download.

seems it's easy to track anything to do with a PC but i can hire a game, copy it on any POS PC and play it on my generic console with an installed generic mod chip, all of which is untraceable and known to no one but myself. i can then sell more copies of the game to kids at my nephews school, hell i can even mod their consoles for them , it's easy and that way much like a drug dealer i'm creating a stable client base.

I'm not sure there is anything inherently illegal about modding a 360. However, it is illegal to pirate games. 

Chipping a 360 will void it's warrenty and going online will get your account and console banned from xbl. Microsoft can tell when you've chipped and playing pirate games on the 360. 

What they tend to do though is just wait until a huge game is about to be released (eg the next COD) and then ban everyone who has chipped and gone online since the last big release. That way all those chumps will be forced to buy a new console (and the game) if they want to go online and play it.

Just check what happened just before MW2 came out. It may happen again in a few weeks.

[ByTheCode]

 I'm just buying it for the single player, so I'm not too judgemental on the multiplayer yet.

[LGTX]

I'm proud of how boldly the series has morphed and developed over the course of just a few titles. I believe it's Bioware having their creative freedom mode on and just bringing in more and more awesome and game-changing ideas with each new title.

For some, it's "not staying true to the roots". I can understand that. What I can't understand, in this case, is WHERE the roots are... ME1? ME2? Singular games in a trilogy don't... DEFINE anything MORE, do they? They're stepping stones. In their ENTIRETY, if the developer deems it so. Ultimately, it is your unpreparedness for the changes that led you to this letter. If so, I'm sorry for you.

[d1sciple]

LGTX wrote...

I'm proud of how boldly the series has morphed and developed over the course of just a few titles. I believe it's Bioware having their creative freedom mode on and just bringing in more and more awesome and game-changing ideas with each new title.

For some, it's "not staying true to the roots". I can understand that. What I can't understand, in this case, is WHERE the roots are... ME1? ME2? Singular games in a trilogy don't... DEFINE anything MORE, do they? They're stepping stones. In their ENTIRETY, if the developer deems it so. Ultimately, it is your unpreparedness for the changes that led you to this letter. If so, I'm sorry for you.

look, ME isn't about the universe. sure it's a nice place, there's a few cool ideas in there but really even if you'd read all the comics/books and played all the games there's **** all to it and that's because it's a character driven story and everything else is just there to enhance the story.
in fact, much the same way that Philip K. Dick used sci fi to tell his stories when in fact they were political and social commentaries, often exploring human nature and really having **** all to do with sci fi.

it's about one person, not about their companions or the bad guys or Eezo or anything else, it's about this one guy and his short journey and adding other people into that experiances sounds like ****.
yeah we don't know specifics but this is our story, MY story. my shep is MY ****in shep and that's MY universe he's walking round in and i can't stand the idea of anyone, not even my friends, ****ing around with MY universe and that's what's going on here.

[LGTX]

d1sciple wrote...

LGTX wrote...

I'm proud of how boldly the series has morphed and developed over the course of just a few titles. I believe it's Bioware having their creative freedom mode on and just bringing in more and more awesome and game-changing ideas with each new title.

For some, it's "not staying true to the roots". I can understand that. What I can't understand, in this case, is WHERE the roots are... ME1? ME2? Singular games in a trilogy don't... DEFINE anything MORE, do they? They're stepping stones. In their ENTIRETY, if the developer deems it so. Ultimately, it is your unpreparedness for the changes that led you to this letter. If so, I'm sorry for you.

look, ME isn't about the universe. sure it's a nice place, there's a few cool ideas in there but really even if you'd read all the comics/books and played all the games there's **** all to it and that's because it's a character driven story and everything else is just there to enhance the story.
in fact, much the same way that Philip K. Dick used sci fi to tell his stories when in fact they were political and social commentaries, often exploring human nature and really having **** all to do with sci fi.

it's about one person, not about their companions or the bad guys or Eezo or anything else, it's about this one guy and his short journey and adding other people into that experiances sounds like ****.
yeah we don't know specifics but this is our story, MY story. my shep is MY ****in shep and that's MY universe he's walking round in and i can't stand the idea of anyone, not even my friends, ****ing around with MY universe and that's what's going on here.

You're mixing things up.

The character is yours. Do whatevewr you want with her/him.

The universe belongs to Bioware. They'll make pigs rain if they want to. How your Shep reacts to it is your choice, but the occurence isn't up to you.

And what the game is about isn't entitled to an opinionated individual. Sorry:huh:

[Persona2005]

I think I'm gonna stick with Mass Effect and forget about Mass Effect 2 or Mass Effect 3.

[DragBahamut]

I have to disagree with the OP, I think the addition of multiplayer is a great idea (although unless I was mistaken, when I saw the announcement it was said for 4-player squads - odd). The potential for MP has always been there without having to change the game at all, could have had a drop-in drop-out style like Fable or Dead Rising with your friends controlling whichever squadmates you chose to take with you.
But that's just my opinion, no need to go spreading it around

T.