204 réponses à ce sujet

[Morty Smith]

I just can imagine the turian council trying to dismiss that claim while they descend in the background going:

"AWKWARD"

[1136342t54_]

Kaiser Shepard wrote...

1136342t54 wrote...

Prince Zeel wrote...

Zakatak757 wrote...
2400 lives were lost when saving the Destiny Ascension. That ship likely had that many members combined, including the Council. Because the Geth ships were focussed on destroying the Destiny, I estimated fewer ships would be lost to in the attack run. Also, proving humanity is willing to sacrifice will improve interspecies relations, and in the long run, will save lives.

Saving the Council is both morally and practically a sound choice.

I'm not buying that. There is no good justification for killing 2400 innocent lives for 3 douchey lives.  I'm not sure how you make the leap between "moral" and "practical". It can NOT be more moral to kill thousands of people for 3. It certaintly is NOT practical to kill them for these a council that wasn't doing sh#t against the reaper invasion.

No. Shepard killed 2400 people for 10,000 possibly more. Destiny Ascension crew had a crew of thousands. That was one ship and a very very powerful dreadnought..

Not every life is equal to one another, nor should those of the Council or those mere 10,000 take precedence over stopping Sovereign.

I never said it was. Plus I think Vigil implied that it would take a multitude of races to take out Sovereign.

[Janus Prospero]

Zakatak757 wrote...

2400 lives were lost when saving the Destiny Ascension. That ship likely had that many members combined, including the Council.

The Destiny Ascension actually had nearly 10,000 crew members aboard. Shepard actually mentions this during the paragon dialogue option with the reporter.

Prince Zeel wrote...

Whats that? The sound of the human race dying so Sheppard can gloat about how "right" he is. 

And these "Powerful" races mean absoloute sh#t in comparison to humanity.

But I'm sure your warped reasoning is good enough justification for slaughtering thousands of human soldiers for a bunch of racist ****s.

Prince Zeel is Renegade IRL

Modifié par Janus Prospero, 13 octobre 2011 - 11:30 .

[1136342t54_]

Prince Zeel wrote...

1136342t54 wrote...

Prince Zeel wrote...

Zakatak757 wrote...
2400 lives were lost when saving the Destiny Ascension. That ship likely had that many members combined, including the Council. Because the Geth ships were focussed on destroying the Destiny, I estimated fewer ships would be lost to in the attack run. Also, proving humanity is willing to sacrifice will improve interspecies relations, and in the long run, will save lives.

Saving the Council is both morally and practically a sound choice.

I'm not buying that. There is no good justification for killing 2400 innocent lives for 3 douchey lives.  I'm not sure how you make the leap between "moral" and "practical". It can NOT be more moral to kill thousands of people for 3. It certaintly is NOT practical to kill them for these a council that wasn't doing sh#t against the reaper invasion.

No. Shepard killed 2400 people for 10,000 possibly more. Destiny Ascension crew had a crew of thousands. That was one ship and a very very powerful dreadnought..

You're just pulling crap out of the arse now. Go away if you do not wish to engage in intelligent debate.

Skip to 1:00 even Shepard makes the claim. I'm sure that Shepard is pulling crap out of her ass to.

[Zakatak757]

This Zeel guy is a pain to keep around. You realize you are just making an idiot of yourself by now?

Because he didn't read this the first time:

Except I didn't save THREE lives. The Destiny is 800m long/wide and 1000m high. Does it take 3 people to crew a ship that big? No, it doesn't. The hull/life supported areas of those Alliance cruisers is maybe 600x60x40.

You speak as if Shepard KNEW what the Council was going to do about the Reaper Invasion at the time he made the decision. If he knew they wouldn't be doing jack sh*t, then no, it wouldn't be a moral choice. But he didn't, he/we/she would assume "HEY, this is proof the Reapers exist, they can't even deny it!"

Take into account the other things I mentioned which you DEFINETLY didn't read, and the choice is fine.

[Anacronian Stryx]

Prince Zeel wrote...

1136342t54 wrote...

Prince Zeel wrote...

Zakatak757 wrote...
2400 lives were lost when saving the Destiny Ascension. That ship likely had that many members combined, including the Council. Because the Geth ships were focussed on destroying the Destiny, I estimated fewer ships would be lost to in the attack run. Also, proving humanity is willing to sacrifice will improve interspecies relations, and in the long run, will save lives.

Saving the Council is both morally and practically a sound choice.

I'm not buying that. There is no good justification for killing 2400 innocent lives for 3 douchey lives.  I'm not sure how you make the leap between "moral" and "practical". It can NOT be more moral to kill thousands of people for 3. It certaintly is NOT practical to kill them for these a council that wasn't doing sh#t against the reaper invasion.

No. Shepard killed 2400 people for 10,000 possibly more. Destiny Ascension crew had a crew of thousands. That was one ship and a very very powerful dreadnought..

You're just pulling crap out of the arse now. Go away if you do not wish to engage in intelligent debate.

20 Turian cruisers each with a crew of 300 = 6000
Destiny Acention with a crew of 10.000
All in all 16.000 crew

Versus 8 Alliance cruisers with a crew of 300 each = 2400.

Linky

[Prince Zeel]

Zakatak757 wrote...


Except I didn't save THREE lives. The Destiny is 800m long/wide and 1000m high. Does it take 3 people to crew a ship that big? No, it doesn't. The hull/life supported areas of those Alliance cruisers is maybe 600x60x40.

You speak as if Shepard KNEW what the Council was going to do about the Reaper Invasion at the time he made the decision. If he knew they wouldn't be doing jack sh*t, then no, it wouldn't be a moral choice. But he didn't, he/we/she would assume "HEY, this is proof the Reapers exist, they can't even deny it!"

Take into account the other things I mentioned which you DEFINETLY didn't read, and the choice is fine.

Some one would be a real fking moron to think the council was going to do ****. Like what game were _they_ playing? I'm sorry to inform you but the council have demonstrated their course of action THE ENTIRE GAME. you were delusional to think else wise.


Also, who cares about who was on the ship.  Soverign was attacking the citadel, and your answer is to divide your assualt to rescue a bunch of racist pricks? God only knows why Paragons got a BONUS for this. but we all knew Bioware favours paragons, even when they're making brain bustingly stupid decisions.

[Prince Zeel]

Zatakafajldkjad whatever and 1279172198271892 whatever. FOCUS ON MY MAIN ARGUMENT PLEASE. arguing over numbers is not how you win a debate.


TYPICAL PARAGON BULLSH#T

[MrFob]

Ok, I realize most people want to get back at the turian councilor, going all "Ah, yes..." on him and as far as my renegade Shep is concerned, I completely agree.
However, it could also be a powerful moment in the game if the turian councilor would get his redeeming bad@ss moment. Being a turian, he is probably in command of the councils military operations.
Imagine a scene near he end of the game: A big battle, Shepard and his allies are about to lose, their ships are destroyed, their reserves gone and they just need a bit more time to do whatever they need to do to stop the reapers. However, they know they are not going to have it. THe Normandy already takes heavy damage and the whole thing reminds one of the traumatic beginning of ME2 when the SR1 was destroyed.
Suddenly out of the blue, a fleet of turian and asari ships appears, lead by the Destiny Ascension, joining the fight. You get a message from the turian councilor: "Shepard, it looks like you have proven your claims. The council races are here to assist."

I think it would make for a good conclusion for paragons that chose to retake their spectre status and work with the council as much as possible during the past two games. It would be inappropriate if for them as well, the council would just come to an end. My paragon Shep at least has no desire for petty revenge for some insults.
All in all, I really hope that key situations in ME3 are going to be heavily influence by past decisions like this.
- The reward for the paragons would be the councils help
- The reward for the renegades would be the opportunity to get back at them
Everyone gets something they wnat out of it that way.

[1136342t54_]

Prince Zeel wrote...

Zatakafajldkjad whatever and 1279172198271892 whatever. FOCUS ON MY MAIN ARGUMENT PLEASE. arguing over numbers is not how you win a debate.


TYPICAL PARAGON BULLSH#T

You just broke my Trollometer Congrats!!!

[Janus Prospero]

1136342t54 wrote...

Prince Zeel wrote...

Zatakafajldkjad whatever and 1279172198271892 whatever. FOCUS ON MY MAIN ARGUMENT PLEASE. arguing over numbers is not how you win a debate.


TYPICAL PARAGON BULLSH#T

You just broke my Trollometer Congrats!!!

Wow...I thought you were actually parodying him, but then I scrolled up to see that he had actually said it!

Modifié par Janus Prospero, 13 octobre 2011 - 11:38 .

[Prince Zeel]

1136342t54 wrote...

Prince Zeel wrote...

Zatakafajldkjad whatever and 1279172198271892 whatever. FOCUS ON MY MAIN ARGUMENT PLEASE. arguing over numbers is not how you win a debate.


TYPICAL PARAGON BULLSH#T

You just broke my Trollometer Congrats!!!

INCASE
YOU
ARE
NOT
PAYING
ATTENTION

Here is the main argument: During the soverign attack, it was foolish to divide our forces to save a bunch of racists pricks.

You guys also didn't know the numbers of the acension back then either. Bioware just happened to write that crap in for the paragon interrupt in Me2. So that's not a good argument.

ALso, it was human lives you sacrificed, where our Shepards priorities? Aliens, or humans?

And Finally, why is it that, paragons divide their forces, yet recieved ABSOLOUTELY NO PENTALTY against soverign. That is some load of crap.

[1136342t54_]

Janus Prospero wrote...

1136342t54 wrote...

Prince Zeel wrote...

Zatakafajldkjad whatever and 1279172198271892 whatever. FOCUS ON MY MAIN ARGUMENT PLEASE. arguing over numbers is not how you win a debate.


TYPICAL PARAGON BULLSH#T

You just broke my Trollometer Congrats!!!

Wow...I thought you were actually parodying him, but then I scrolled up to see that he had actually said it!

That is why my handy device was broken. I will miss you Trollometer 

[DiebytheSword]

I edited my earlier response, Zeel. You can see my thought processes there. As an adendum, Shepard makes a difference because Shepard is a powerful symbol, paragon or renegade. Similarly, the Destiny Ascention is a powerful symbol, like the Bismarc, Hood and Missouri. To save this ship, which is constantly mentioned as a magnificent vessel even amongst other Dreadnaughts, is a tool that should be kept for more than one reason. The council, for me, was only part of that reason, a very small one at that. The 10,000 asari crew members, the symbol to the Council Navy, the Destiny Ascention's war capabilities, all came into play. Soveriegn. Soveriegn was mine.

Also, the Destiny Ascention's codex entry mentioned the crew I thought.  Regardless, a Dreadnaught would have a very large contingent.  That was common sense, as well as irrelavent to my thought process.

Modifié par DiebytheSword, 13 octobre 2011 - 11:41 .

[Janus Prospero]

1136342t54 wrote...

Janus Prospero wrote...
Wow...I thought you were actually parodying him, but then I scrolled up to see that he had actually said it!

That is why my handy device was broken. I will miss you Trollometer 

Poe's Law at work!

[NeroSparda]

1136342t54 wrote...

Prince Zeel wrote...

Zatakafajldkjad whatever and 1279172198271892 whatever. FOCUS ON MY MAIN ARGUMENT PLEASE. arguing over numbers is not how you win a debate.


TYPICAL PARAGON BULLSH#T

You just broke my Trollometer Congrats!!!

Yup, he also seem to not value potential "number of innocent lives that would probably outweigh the two council members/idiots that really deserve to die in ship 1 compared to the amount of people that will sacrificed, among other ships if we waste resources to save them." I be honest, in my first playthrough I was thinking of "Should I really waste resources/lives/ships to save the council? What if we all die because our numbers are too little." So I chose to let the council die. Logical? Maybe, to me it was. Though Zeel... ugh. Can't even begin to describe this trollish attitude.

[1136342t54_]

Prince Zeel wrote...

1136342t54 wrote...

Prince Zeel wrote...

Zatakafajldkjad whatever and 1279172198271892 whatever. FOCUS ON MY MAIN ARGUMENT PLEASE. arguing over numbers is not how you win a debate.


TYPICAL PARAGON BULLSH#T

You just broke my Trollometer Congrats!!!

INCASE
YOU
ARE
NOT
PAYING
ATTENTION

Here is the main argument: During the soverign attack, it was foolish to divide our forces to save a bunch of racists pricks.

You guys also didn't know the numbers of the acension back then either. Bioware just happened to write that crap in for the paragon interrupt in Me2. So that's not a good argument.

ALso, it was human lives you sacrificed, where our Shepards priorities? Aliens, or humans?

And Finally, why is it that, paragons divide their forces, yet recieved ABSOLOUTELY NO PENTALTY against soverign. That is some load of crap.

lol Your so called main argument is so freaking static dude I can't really see it I guess. First you talk about Paragons sacrificed 50,000 human lives (just plain stupid) then you attempt to make a case that the other races are useless (which I quickly disprove) after that you claim that I am bs on the claim that more aliens were saved than humans died in the Paragon ending (which I also proved you were false lol). 

Now you change goal posts again lol.

[Tonymac]

Saving the council builds bridges - as well as the 10,000 aboard the Destiny Ascension.

[Prince Zeel]

Oh this is just rainbows and skittles and kittens and skipping through gardens.

I don't know what hacked Mass Effect 1 game you guys were playing, but when the decision was presented to me. It was like this

"Save the council, but possibly leave Soverign as a threat"

or "Sacrifice the council and save the galaxy"

Not

"Save the council and 10000 people AND have all the aliens like you AND KILL sovereign"

or
"save 2400 people and everyone hates you and kill sovereign"

Trust me if the decision was presented it like that, there isn't a big enough renegade decision in the world to make me pick the latter.


But I should of known. it's the same crap Bioware always does. pandering to Paragons, making sure even there stupid decisions make sense.

[Janus Prospero]

Prince Zeel wrote...

Here is the main argument: During the
soverign attack, it was foolish to divide our forces to save a bunch of
racists pricks.

You are clearly able to justify your decisions in your (Renegade Shepard's) eyes.

Why can't you accept the fact that other people can arrive at a different decision and are still able to justify it to themselves?

Neither argument is right or wrong. You're arguing vanilla VS chocolate.

Modifié par Janus Prospero, 13 octobre 2011 - 11:47 .

[Jog0907]

Prince Zeel wrote...

Zakatak757 wrote...


Except I didn't save THREE lives. The Destiny is 800m long/wide and 1000m high. Does it take 3 people to crew a ship that big? No, it doesn't. The hull/life supported areas of those Alliance cruisers is maybe 600x60x40.

You speak as if Shepard KNEW what the Council was going to do about the Reaper Invasion at the time he made the decision. If he knew they wouldn't be doing jack sh*t, then no, it wouldn't be a moral choice. But he didn't, he/we/she would assume "HEY, this is proof the Reapers exist, they can't even deny it!"

Take into account the other things I mentioned which you DEFINETLY didn't read, and the choice is fine.

Some one would be a real fking moron to think the council was going to do ****. Like what game were _they_ playing? I'm sorry to inform you but the council have demonstrated their course of action THE ENTIRE GAME. you were delusional to think else wise.

Also, who cares about who was on the ship.  Soverign was attacking the citadel, and your answer is to divide your assualt to rescue a bunch of racist pricks? God only knows why Paragons got a BONUS for this. but we all knew Bioware favours paragons, even when they're making brain bustingly stupid decisions.

Any bonus of any kind has yet to be shown for saving the council vs letting them die (or full paragons receiving better stuff for that matter). I agree with you though, the council was not to be saved in my main playtrough because killing sovereign was the most important thing (the neutral choice), that said the way you go about discussing things is really direspectful and if you want people to appreciate your opinion more, you should word it in a more mature way.

[DiebytheSword]

Prince Zeel wrote...

Oh this is just rainbows and skittles and kittens and skipping through gardens.

I don't know what hacked Mass Effect 1 game you guys were playing, but when the decision was presented to me. It was like this

"Save the council, but possibly leave Soverign as a threat"

or "Sacrifice the council and save the galaxy"

Not

"Save the council and 10000 people AND have all the aliens like you AND KILL sovereign"

or
"save 2400 people and everyone hates you and kill sovereign"

Trust me if the decision was presented it like that, there isn't a big enough renegade decision in the world to make me pick the latter.


But I should of known. it's the same crap Bioware always does. pandering to Paragons, making sure even there stupid decisions make sense.

Just because a decision is given to you on certain terms, does not mean you cannot engage that decision from many angles.  I chose a path you did not forsee, nor apparently cared for.

[Someone With Mass]

Prince Zeel wrote...

Here is the main argument: During the soverign attack, it was foolish to divide our forces to save a bunch of racists pricks.

You guys also didn't know the numbers of the acension back then either. Bioware just happened to write that crap in for the paragon interrupt in Me2. So that's not a good argument.

ALso, it was human lives you sacrificed, where our Shepards priorities? Aliens, or humans?

And Finally, why is it that, paragons divide their forces, yet recieved ABSOLOUTELY NO PENTALTY against soverign. That is some load of crap.

Divide? There was no such thing. The whole fleet engaged the geth (which were still a threat) and then went for the Citadel as the arms were opening. 

But here's the fun part: Saving/sacrificing the Council is neither a Paragon or Renegade choice.

Modifié par Someone With Mass, 13 octobre 2011 - 11:48 .

[1136342t54_]

Janus Prospero wrote...

Prince Zeel wrote...

Here is the main argument: During the
soverign attack, it was foolish to divide our forces to save a bunch of
racists pricks.

You are clearly able to justify your decisions in your (Renegade Shepard's) eyes.

Why can't you accept the fact that other people can arrive at a different decision and are still able to justify it to themselves?

Neither argument is right or wrong. You're arguing vanilla VS chocolate.

Actually Legion put it best.

Legion: For Geth 1+1=1 for Heretics 2+1=3

[Prince Zeel]

1136342t54 wrote...


lol Your so called main argument is so freaking static dude I can't really see it I guess. First you talk about Paragons sacrificed 50,000 human lives (just plain stupid) then you attempt to make a case that the other races are useless (which I quickly disprove) after that you claim that I am bs on the claim that more aliens were saved than humans died in the Paragon ending (which I also proved you were false lol). 

Now you change goal posts again lol.

I'm not moving the goal posts, sweetheart. If you manage to get that high school dipolma you might be able to comprehend what I am posting right now. My point, and will always BE MY POINT is that dividing our forces during a critical galaxy invasion was a STUPID decision.  
I will acknowledge my numbers were screwed up, but I didn't see those clips because I DONT PLAY PARAGON. Also, what the flying ****. Half of these figures weren't presented during the Me1 decisions. So again, what is the relevance?

The decision as was presented showed one obviously smarter choice but because it happened to be renegade, SUDDENLY it's the "stupid" choice. BS Bioware. keep braiding Paragon's hair.