282 réponses à ce sujet

[-Semper-]

bye.

[Shallina]

Kamal, How much did you download your own mod ? You are really evil !

[kamal_]

Shallina wrote...

Kamal, How much did you download your own mod ? You are really evil !

2-3 times when people said they'd downloaded and files were missing.

I other news, DAO modding is apparently dying faster than nwn1 or 2 according to Amstrad Hero.

[M. Rieder]

It isn't surprising. NWN1 and 2 are based on DND which has a strong following, but DA is a recent invention which was popular for awhile, but does not have the type of entrenchment that DND has. Whole worlds and massive book sets have been based on the DND world.

[Shallina]

No multiplayer, a crappy lightmapper, many limitation, and worst of all the difficulty to get a new layout for new area.

Those 3 things are crippling the DAO toolset. To bad, there are many feature in DAO that I wish I had in NWN2. Bu when you wieght what you gain and what you loss with DAO next to NWN2 and NWN1, you 'll see that's you'll loose more. That's why the modding scene for DAO nevers took off.

[-Semper-]

Iveforgotmypassword wrote...

However I can see why people don't make big mods for that game as it's not easy, conversations in particular are complicated and it's hard to get a flow going when you have to create each line manually not just click it ( like NWN2 )

fortunately obsidian included a better conversation editor with new vegas. it's not as smooth as the one in nwn2 but worlds apart from the single line editor bethesda used to create their dialogues. no wonder their rpgs are only strong in the sandbox league^^

@shallina: sadly that's all true. i had high hopes too but in the end they're all destroyed

Modifié par -Semper-, 15 octobre 2011 - 02:20 .

[M. Rieder]

Iveforgotmypassword wrote...

In the future games are going to get more complicated, less moddable and developers more greedy preferring to sell downloaded stuff than let people give it away not to mention show them how it's done.So I think what we have here in the NWN2 toolset is something that's user friendly, doesn't look too dated with pretty much limitless possibilities for stories etc and quite a long life span ahead of it. I'm even looking forward to showing my daughter how to make a mod one day just not at the moment as I don't think the community is quite ready for pink dragons and princesses yet !

Tsongo..

You are certainly right that games are going to get more complicated.  Just look at NWN2 versus NWN1.  From what I understand the NWN2 toolset is more complicated and these games are just a few years apart.  Additionally, what you say about the business model makes sense as well.  There isn't much continued revenue in a toolset, in fact I wonder it the toolset is what made ATARI or whoever stop releasing modules. 

It is possible that an independent group of hobbyists may make the successor to NWN2.  And if that happens, it will probably be good for the modding community since it will be created by modders.  I know there are some projects out there working toward that end. 

But in the end, as others have said, right now if you want to play new DND adventures on the computer, or build them, NWN1 and NWN2 are it.  There just aren't any other options now or on the horizon.

[The Fred]

PJ156 wrote...
Can we assume from the thread we have here we're not dead yet. perhaps dormant at times .. but not dead.

Dead men draw no pie charts.

[drechner]

EE, why the negativity? You weren't always this negative. Hopefully the community will still be around when BGR is released this year and hopefully you'll download and enjoy it with us

Modifié par drechner, 15 octobre 2011 - 10:00 .

[Lugaid of the Red Stripes]

I'm not sure games will get more complicated, no more than novels or film have gotten more complicated as they age. If a new generation of processors can handle game worlds that are 4x more complicated than the current state of the art, that means you need 4x as many artists, programmers, and level designers to create a new game world (not to mention testing it). At the same time, the suits are asking for fatter profits. So you either gotta convince your code monkeys to work for less than 1/4 the pay, or you put out a buggy, overpriced POS and hope enough players are gullible enough to buy it to justify your bonus. Better technology and better development tools will help somethings (like poly-count and resolution), but things that require actual human talent (animations, ai, level design) will stagnate.

It's like expecting McDonalds to cook better tasting hamburgers in the future, if you want a tasty burger, you either gotta make it yourself or find someone else who cares more about taste than their quarterly earnings.

The challenge right now is to figure out how to organize these projects without a corporate structure and the paychecks that come with it.

[Kaldor Silverwand]

I shouldn't have read the blog post. Like slowing down on the freeway to see a wreck I guess. You can't look away. Like a moth to flame.

Not sure if I am a "fan kiddie", a "blindly angry deny-er (sic) type", a "straggler", a "dysfunctionality" (sic), or one of the "handful of persistent hard working talent." Lacking an answer from Eguintir I'm going to claim myself to be one of the handful of hard working talent. I wonder who the other four are?

While EE makes some good points I think, and I can empathize with his sense of defeatism and pessimism, the reality is that that kind of talk gets us nowhere good. It is far better to light a candle than to curse the darkness.

I remember the same feeling of loss when I realized that NWN1 was aimed at a different audience than Baldur's Gate had been. There may not be another game that targets the NWN2 audience. But at least we have a toolset and as long as that works we have an outlet for creativity and sharing. No, it won't be the same as a thriving community of thousands. And it will eventually be reduced even further. But on the bright side, there will be fewer "I can't make my NPC sit down" threads.

So, Eguintir, if you are reading this, my advice is that you need to step away from the keyboard a bit and try to regain some perspective. Nothing lasts. All we can do is create and share for a short while. If you want to maximize that sharing then you will be constantly drifting to the latest greatest thing. That is one path. But if you want to build for NWN2 then, by all means, build for it.

Regards

[M. Rieder]

But on the bright side, there will be fewer "I can't make my NPC sit down" threads.
 ROTFL. 

I don't care how dead or small this community is.  It kicks ass.

Modifié par M. Rieder, 16 octobre 2011 - 12:05 .

[dunniteowl]

Wow, you turn your back for a couple of months and this kind of stuff starts growing along the baseboards. Who'd have thunk?

Will the real Eguintir Eligard please take a few moments and go for a nice long walk in fresh air, sunshine and maybe some trees, trees in the Real World don't have polycount limits or overload the image processor if there are too many. That's nice.

As to the fake Eguintir Eligtard. Shame upon you for impersonating someone else on the forums. Not so much for doing it, but you just did an awful job. I can't believe anyone fell for it. No moaning, wailing or gnashing of teeth and altogether too hip and into the "tangential" story. If I were to make a guess, you'd prolly do a better job impersonating me -- which you had better not.

I do carry the Hammer of Ban +2 and am not afraid to use it.

You know, it's been nearly five years since NWN2 was released. I haven't finished a single module idea. I've started like eight of them. I love to just build stuff. I love to write dialogue and come up with ideas. As a dedicated builder, I lack not vision, just practical limits and a deadline mentality that says I have to produce something. I've built a lava flowing volcanoe (hadn't created the spewing flames, smoke and lava bombs, but only because I didn't think about it before I got distracted.) I've built a Valley of Kings graveyard area that I just LOVE! even though it still needs a lot of building work for the crypt entrances. I've built forested woodlands so thick, you'd hate me if you had to fight in them. I've made quaint little towns, and populated them with quirky characters that sometimes won't tell you what you want them to, but somehow manage to give you something you can use.

None of that, not a bit of it, is release worthy in my opinion. It's just me playing with my NWN2 toolset, exploring what I can do with it and how I can learn to use more of it better. I bought the game for the same reasons I bought the Unlimited Adventures game, with a toolset. Something I could build modules with -- even if I don't ever complete a story, release a module or design something I can 'give back' to this Community.

Except, in all that time, I have learned a lot of things from others. I have provided a lot of ideas, help and technical advice and assistance for others, mostly new players and new builders. I tend to retain a lot of information and so can provide recollections of many things and sometimes can even point someone to the original posts that spawned this prodigious and generally not terribly useful talent for recall.

If it weren't for this Community, this game (and the others that came before it that kept my dream alive in some form) I wouldn't be nearly as happy a person as I am when I open the toolset and build for hours on end, knowing my work may never see the light of day as far as anyone else is concerned. I bought the game not for the OC, but for the toolset. I need to build. Even if I can't release a damn thing, I need to build.

For me, the toolset is worth every penny I paid for a game I don't play. If this Community dies, truly, fully and completely, it can only be because creativity has left us -- or there is a true successor to NWN2 as a concept game with fully realized toolset that allows us even more freedom to build (and yes, with freedom comes the responsibility to preserve freedom by creating.)

Meanwhile, I continue to monitor the "patient" as well as the sometimes intemperate members of this Community for life.

Loved the graph, pie chart and the reference to a "How do I make my PC sit?"
Don't love: Eguintir Eligtard. Bad, bad, bad forumite! Take that!
[sounds of a large wooden maul striking soft fleshy sounding materials.]

dno

[Shallina]

Dead men tells no tales But we still produce some.

[The Fred]

Wow, yeah, I just read that blog post and he seems actually upset about all this.

That said, if your main issue is that some people think more people play a game than do, you need to worry less. Who cares? I honestly have no idea how big "the community" (whatever that actually *is*) is, but I really don't think it matters that much. I think I and a lot of other people here actually spend too long posting on these boards and should probably sod off and go play something, make something, or do some work. I for one am in favour of less community posts, especially ones which are answered by FAQs, wikis and Google searches, and consequently less time reading and writing, and more time playing and making - and therefore a more active community!

I do find the suggestion that a community be shut down absurd. The community by definition isn't an organised thing, it's a group (i.e. 2 or more) of people who play the same game and discuss it or interact in some way. Sure it will shrink as people move on and often don't come back, but w/e. I still play Baldur's Gate and chat about it with the guys in the No-Reload thread. I find having less than a dozen active players at any given time is about optimum, actually.

[slowdive.fan]

Seeing that there is no real successor to NWN1&2 (and unfortunately, probably never will be with the current big business models), people will still be building and playing for the unseeable future. The community size may be smaller, but I'll take quality over quantity any time (except for ice cream ). I build because I enjoy it and when I feel burned out or something else seems more interesting then building goes on the back burner. IWD is curently on hold for a month or two while I finish another project that I started recently. Since I started learning C# for work (to make a few basic programs to increase efficiency), I thought it would be fun to finally finish making a cRPG that I always start but never finish (started one on my C64 and another on my Amiga 500). So I have been writting my own engine and toolset in C#. It will be a very simple turn based, 2D engine with a PnP look and feel. The dialogue system/editor will be like NWN2. So my focus is on a strong dialogue system for story telling and less on graphics so building time is less (plus custom content can be done with any graphics editor like GIMP). My first module will probably be a Star Frontiers module "Alpha Dawn". The ruleset will hopefully be flexible enough for any type of PnP game. Why waste my time doing this when there may already be similar programs out there that are much better? Well, because it is fun and I enjoy it . Plus it will be open source so if anyone wants to help make it better they can.

So I wouldn't worry too much about NWN1 or 2 going away anytime soon since they are the best thing we have as D&D fans for creating and sharing our stories.

[MokahTGS]

 wait...how do I make my NPC's sit?

[Dorateen]

MokahTGS wrote...

 wait...how do I make my NPC's sit?

In the old days, we didn't let NPC's sit. They stood, and they liked it! They stood around all day, and we would make them stand around all night. Why, when it came time to go to bed, we made those NPC's sleep standing up.  I remember one NPC, stood in the same spot throughout the whole Baldur's Gate campaign...

Harumph!

[kamal_]

In all honesty, there does need to be a compendium of stuff like that to point people to, written in a straightforward way since new builders will be the target audience. The Toolset Notes Volume 4 is a start (and my suggestion for where/how that should be compiled).

[Kaldor Silverwand]

must... not... press... submit...

[MokahTGS]

kamal_ wrote...

In all honesty, there does need to be a compendium of stuff like that to point people to, written in a straightforward way since new builders will be the target audience. The Toolset Notes Volume 4 is a start (and my suggestion for where/how that should be compiled).

Just point people to the old Bioware forums...

...wait...oh right...

[M. Rieder]

Dorateen wrote...

MokahTGS wrote...

 wait...how do I make my NPC's sit?

In the old days, we didn't let NPC's sit. They stood, and they liked it! They stood around all day, and we would make them stand around all night. Why, when it came time to go to bed, we made those NPC's sleep standing up.  I remember one NPC, stood in the same spot throughout the whole Baldur's Gate campaign...

Harumph!

 LMAO!!!!!

[steelfire_dragon]

Dead me really do tell tales.

the body stores every detail in its cells. all one has to do is read it.

forensics...