11 réponses à ce sujet

[sagefic]

I have 3 questions that I have searched the DA wiki, the forums, and other sites (gamespot, shudder) and found no ruling on. I've tried testing this in my own playthroughs, but had too many points already to see if this works. so

1) friend/rivalry is on a point scale - what's the actual #s? 50% of either and you unlock the friendship/rivalry. so far so good. the DA wiki says the friend/rivalry bar is 200 points. that would imply you need 50 pts to unlock and then 100 ponts to lock into friendship or rivalry (provided you don't get points in the opposite direction and backslide.)

however, it seemed to me that i needed 60 points to get to rivalry or friendship. am i imagining this? (or perhaps i took points in the opposite direction and forgot about it?). isit actually 60 pts to unlock friendship.rivalry and 120 to lock in?

2) gifts?  so gifts give you either friendship OR rivalry points - but it seems that it's in the direction you were already going. if you give a gift and are not to friend/rivalry (so, less than 60 points, or 50 points, still not clear on that), will you automatically get friendship only? (that is, rivalry requires you to have already reached rivalry, otherwise you get friendship.) or will you get nothing? basically, if you'd scarcely talked to someone before and now you hand them a gift, what are you going to get for it? friendship? rivalry? or does it depend on the dialog with them as you hand it over IF you hadn't established friendship./rivalry before?

3) Speaking to/Questioning Belief convos: Same question as above. If you hadn't already locked in a friendship/rivalry, do the points here rack up on friendship by default? or do they go friendship or rivalry depending upon what you say? OR do they head in the direction you have more friend or rivalry points OR do you simply not get the optoins that lead to more friend/rivalry points unless you'd already established friendship or rivalry?

Thanks in advance for any insights here. I've been testing this out on my 4 hawkes, but can't seem to come to any conclusive answers. i think i'm friending/rivaling people too quickly to properly test this.
 
 

Modifié par sagequeen, 14 octobre 2011 - 01:59 .

[Myusha]

Gifts are automatically Friendship, and Questioning Beliefs don't occur unless you already have friendship or rivalry stacked up.

[Eudaemonium]

sagequeen wrote...

I have 3 questions that I have searched the DA wiki, the forums, and other sites (gamespot, shudder) and found no ruling on. I've tried testing this in my own playthroughs, but had too many points already to see if this works. so

1) friend/rivalry is on a point scale - what's the actual #s? 50% of either and you unlock the friendship/rivalry. so far so good. the DA wiki says the friend/rivalry bar is 200 points. that would imply you need 50 pts to unlock and then 100 ponts to lock into friendship or rivalry (provided you don't get points in the opposite direction and backslide.)

however, it seemed to me that i needed 60 points to get to rivalry or friendship. am i imagining this? (or perhaps i took points in the opposite direction and forgot about it?). isit actually 60 pts to unlock friendship.rivalry and 120 to lock in?

I'd assume you probably got some points the otehr way at some point. That stated, sometimes the QB-quest doesn't trigger automatically in your journal (though you can still talk to the person to initiate it), so it's possible that's what was happening. Either way, it caps out at 100.

2) gifts?  so gifts give you either friendship OR rivalry points - but it seems that it's in the direction you were already going. if you give a gift and are not to friend/rivalry (so, less than 60 points, or 50 points, still not clear on that), will you automatically get friendship only? (that is, rivalry requires you to have already reached rivalry, otherwise you get friendship.) or will you get nothing? basically, if you'd scarcely talked to someone before and now you hand them a gift, what are you going to get for it? friendship? rivalry? or does it depend on the dialog with them as you hand it over IF you hadn't established friendship./rivalry before?

Gifts actually vary somewhat. Most characters will just get +15 in whichever direction you have. Others actually vary depending on the conversation options you pick: Carver and Aveline's gifts are good examples, as whetehr you get Friendship or Rivalry depends on how you approach the conversation.

3) Speaking to/Questioning Belief convos: Same question as above. If you hadn't already locked in a friendship/rivalry, do the points here rack up on friendship by default? or do they go friendship or rivalry depending upon what you say? OR do they head in the direction you have more friend or rivalry points OR do you simply not get the optoins that lead to more friend/rivalry points unless you'd already established friendship or rivalry?

'Speaking to' quests, I believe, you can get either, depending both on the companion and the dialogue choices (some don't give you any, from what I recall). Quesionting beliefs are trickier because you only get them at 50% and 100% of their respective paths, obvious the second is locked as it's the climax of the relationship. The first one I am unsure about, but going full the otehr way once you reached 50% in one would probably be kinda difficult. More difficult for some than others, though.
 

[sagefic]

okay, thank you both. That is seriously helpful.

i the friend/rivalry thing for the RP element, but sometiems find it maddening when certain characters end up in the 'middle' of the bar, as it were.

what i'm actually trying to pull off is friending fenris even though i have slightly pro-mage leanings. i can see it will be possible, but was wondering at what point i'd unlock friendship and then be able to do gift quests.

[leggywillow]

The easiest thing to do is check the Dragon Age Wiki.  On the page for each quest they include the friendship and rivalry points for decisions and dialogue options.  I often check it prior to doing a quest so I know who to bring or leave behind.    They even have the "Questioning Beliefs" and other relationship quests available, so it's very easy to consult.

Modifié par leggywillow, 14 octobre 2011 - 08:28 .

[Gervaise]

On my first run through I must have reached around 45 on the rivalry with Fenris and then owing to my mage's sentiments changing a bit as a result of experiences and helping him against Hadrianna, yelling he's not a slave at every opportunity, being kind to the elf girl, etc, I managed to get back to 50 friendship before the end of Act 2, triggered the questioning beliefs and finally got the romance going. I remember after we had been in the Fade and I was still on rivalry side of bar, he blamed me for taking him in and I got rivalry points. On subsequent run throughs, I was already on friendship side of scale at this point, he apologised for letting me down and I got friendship points.

With Anders when he was on friendship side of scale and I gave him the Amulet I got friendship points. However, when I gave him it when he was on rivalry side of scale, I got more rivalry points. I think I was already over 50 by this time though.

I think what happens is that up to 50 point the friendship/rivalry is a generic thing, but once you have got to that point it defaults into reinforcing the direction you are in. Otherwise you could end up with a rivalry bonus skill and a friendship bonus skill, plus your romance would never get to the next level at 100 before you get to Last Straw. Then again, I could be totally wrong about this.

[sagefic]

leggywillow wrote...

The easiest thing to do is check the Dragon Age Wiki.  On the page for each quest they include the friendship and rivalry points for decisions and dialogue options.  I often check it prior to doing a quest so I know who to bring or leave behind.    They even have the "Questioning Beliefs" and other relationship quests available, so it's very easy to consult.

i actually have consulted the wiki quite a bit - thank you for the advice, it was just that i was a little confused by the 'talk' quests.

the wiki is not terribly clear about the 50pts/100pts markers. it also has very little to say about how gifts give points (the book of shartan article is a stub, for example). 

i wanted to try the fenris friend romance, but didn't want to have to overly metagame my pro-mage leanings to pull it off (by leaving him behind all the time, etc.).

however, i've now WAY metagamed in that i'm trying to see if the points work out okay. so much for that plan.

anyhow, i tried the merrill gift (the halla) and i had waffled back and forth on friendship with her and was in the middle of the bar. it gave +15 firnedship based - i think - on 'nice' convo options. i've also gotten +15 rivalry when rivalry was existing with her and i chose 'mean' dialog.

so i'm going to assume that the same is true with other act 2 gifts and i can get some points with the gift quests even if i've not reached 50 poitns friendship or rivalry yet. 

basiccally, what i'm hearing is that the only things that require 50% friendship/rivalry are the questioning beliefs quests (which then kick off the romances, if you so choose).

that's kind of what i was hoping.

[Quething]

Merrill's actually an interesting case. Refusing to give her the arulin'holm will automatically turn all Friendship to Rivalry. (Well, minus ten.) So if you do all kinds of Merrill friendship stuff and get her up to 95, and then deny her the means to fix the mirror, you'll jump instantly to 85 Rivalry. (Her mid-stage QB won't fire until after the Mirror quest, though, so it's pretty tricky to get one one side and one the other.)

[CuriousArtemis]

sagequeen wrote...

what i'm actually trying to pull off is friending fenris even though i have slightly pro-mage leanings. i can see it will be possible, but was wondering at what point i'd unlock friendship and then be able to do gift quests.

Oh, Fenris is really pretty easy.  If you want to be pro-mage, you either have to leave him at home if you're doing something pro-mage-y (i.e. rescuing the Starkhaven mages) or else just pretend to be a dick to mages until Fenris is maxed out on friendship by the start of Act 2, and then you can finally start being a pal to them

The thing about Fenris is that it's not like he thinks all mages should DIE DIE DIE (except Anders, of course), but you do have to suggest they go to the Circle if you want him to love you.

[aries1001]

The wiki is indeed not clear on the whole friend/rivalry thingie. I had to measure the actual line witih a ruler. The line is 10 centimeters long; to unlock any friend or rivalry quests etc, you'll beed 50% friendship or rivalry, meaning that you'll need the line to have 2.5 centimeters left in both end of the line.The friendship/rivalry meter is sort of divided down the middle with 5 centimers to each. So you'll need to start from this middle and work your way up or down this scale. Once in either end there'll remain only 2.5 centimeters, either in the left side(friendship) or in the right side (rivalry), you should be able to get a companion quest to kick in. And probably some things as well.

And yes, the only thing that actually required this are the questioning beliefs quest and the romance quests.

[sagefic]

aries1001 wrote...

The wiki is indeed not clear on the whole friend/rivalry thingie. I had to measure the actual line witih a ruler. The line is 10 centimeters long; to unlock any friend or rivalry quests etc, you'll beed 50% friendship or rivalry, meaning that you'll need the line to have 2.5 centimeters left in both end of the line.The friendship/rivalry meter is sort of divided down the middle with 5 centimers to each. So you'll need to start from this middle and work your way up or down this scale. Once in either end there'll remain only 2.5 centimeters, either in the left side(friendship) or in the right side (rivalry), you should be able to get a companion quest to kick in. And probably some things as well.

And yes, the only thing that actually required this are the questioning beliefs quest and the romance quests.

bahahahaha!

i love that you pulled out a ruler and measured it. this makes me feel less insane for getting out a piece of paper to double-check that i have all my facial proportions right before starting a new avatar in the CC.

i'm carefully marking down points either way so i can see if it really is 50 pt. or 60pt. that makes you hit the 50% mark. there are, it seems, 240 friend points total per person, so somehow that seems to fit with a 60 pt. scale. 

i will have to check this out.

as for friending fenris, my dastardly RP hiccup is that if i'm playing a romance with a char, i hate to leave them behind for anything, EVEN if it means they dislike something i do. i barely got my previous hawke's rivalmance with sebastian to work out. but thankfully, someone posted a guide, which helped.

thanks for the info though. i've got enough to test the results.

[CuriousArtemis]

sagequeen wrote...

as for friending fenris, my dastardly RP hiccup is that if i'm playing a romance with a char, i hate to leave them behind for anything, EVEN if it means they dislike something i do. i barely got my previous hawke's rivalmance with sebastian to work out. but thankfully, someone posted a guide, which helped.

thanks for the info though. i've got enough to test the results.

I don't want to give away any spoilers, but you may want to leave Fenris (or whoever your LI is) behind during Best Served Cold...  (but only if your brother/sister is dead)