Questa discussione ha avuto 703 risposte

[b09boy]

-Mistakenly and unknowingly released the lyrium idol which all but creates the central antagonist and nearly destroys the city.
-Mistakenly and unknowingly helps Anders create a mage/templar civil war throughout Thedas.
-Mistakenly and unknowingly helps and even allows Corypheus to escape and likely infiltrate the Grey Wardens.
-Mistakenly
and unknowingly prevents a list of Qunari spies from being obtained,
likely making the eventual qunari invasion all the worse.

It was annoying at first, but this has gotten to be just comical. I have to wonder if Bioware even realizes what a joke Hawke is.  I'm not sure I've ever seen an RPG character railroaded so much into being a complete stooge or stepstool for other characters to walk all over.

Modificata da b09boy, 14 ottobre 2011 - 05:24 .

[MigoTheGIgo]

Leave Hawke alone :<

b09boy wrote...

-Mistakenly and unknowingly released the lyrium idol which all but creates the central antagonist and nearly destroys the city.
-Mistakenly and unknowingly helps Anders create a mage/templar civil war throughout Thedas.
-Mistakenly and unknowingly helps and even allows Corypheus to escape and likely infiltrate the Grey Wardens.
-Mistakenly
and unknowingly prevents a list of Qunari spies from being obtained,
likely making the eventual qunari invasion all the worse.

It was
annoying at first, but this has gotten to be just comical. I have to
wonder if Bioware even realizes what a joke Hawke is.  I'm not sure I've ever seen an RPG character railroaded so much into being a complete stooge or stepstool for other characters to walk all over.

Perhaps the lesson from this game is "Sometimes, life gives you crap, and all you can do is try not to be swallowed up by it". Which is an entirely valid lesson. There is a difference between being a hero and being a god. Guess which one Hawke is ^^ 

[b09boy]

MigoTheGIgo wrote...

Perhaps the lesson from this game is "Sometimes, life gives you crap, and all you can do is try not to be swallowed up by it". Which is an entirely valid lesson. There is a difference between being a hero and being a god. Guess which one Hawke is ^^ 

Neither?  Unless you count driving the Qunari out of the city.  After they killed the ruler and a bunch of the nobility in a suicide attack.

[whykikyouwhy]

I agree with MigoTheGIgo. Hawke's story is about trying to deal with the chaotic circumstances that (s)he is surrounded by/entangled in.

@OP - Regarding your list, those are situtations that the player has knowledge of, whereas Hawke may not have the same perspective or scope. And while all incidents listed have the potential for Thedas-shaking events to come, even the most innocent and simple act could start a domino effect toward something equal. Let's say that one minor character that survives a battle or is spared by Hawke winds up playing a vital role in the DA-verse chapters to come (for good or for ill). It simply remains to be seen how things will shake out.

[Mr.House]

By this logic then Izzy, Varric, Betrand, Jeneka and Tallis can also be blamed.

[ThePasserby]

Mr.House wrote...

By this logic then Izzy, Varric, Betrand, Jeneka and Tallis can also be blamed.

Are these people the protagonists?

[Fauxnormal]

MigoTheGIgo wrote...

Leave Hawke alone :<

b09boy wrote...

-Mistakenly and unknowingly released the lyrium idol which all but creates the central antagonist and nearly destroys the city.
-Mistakenly and unknowingly helps Anders create a mage/templar civil war throughout Thedas.
-Mistakenly and unknowingly helps and even allows Corypheus to escape and likely infiltrate the Grey Wardens.
-Mistakenly
and unknowingly prevents a list of Qunari spies from being obtained,
likely making the eventual qunari invasion all the worse.

It was
annoying at first, but this has gotten to be just comical. I have to
wonder if Bioware even realizes what a joke Hawke is.  I'm not sure I've ever seen an RPG character railroaded so much into being a complete stooge or stepstool for other characters to walk all over.

Perhaps the lesson from this game is "Sometimes, life gives you crap, and all you can do is try not to be swallowed up by it". Which is an entirely valid lesson. There is a difference between being a hero and being a god. Guess which one Hawke is ^^ 

This. I'll take Hawke over some boring, bland, do-everything-perfect hero any day. Why? Because Hawke is human, and (well, depending on how you play), doing their best to make something good out of a set of really ****ty circumstances. A hero is someone who tries to help, tries to fix, tries to save. A hero is NOT nessicarily someone who pulls it off all the time.

The point of the game is and was to be dark and gritty; that sometimes, no matter what you do, things go downhill anyway. People are annoyed because they couldn't change the outcome of the game, but guess what? Sometimes, you CAN'T change the way things happen.

[ThePasserby]

It is puzzling why some find it fun to play a protagonist as inept as Hawke.

I can understand the writers favouring certain NPCs over the PC and have them pull a fast one on Hawke. Not a qaulity I'd admire on a game writer, but understandable. But why players enjoy playing a bystander is beyond me.

[upsettingshorts]

No, but it undermines the argument that Hawke is at fault in all cases significantly.

[upsettingshorts]

ThePasserby wrote...

It is puzzling why some find it fun to play a protagonist as inept as Hawke.

My Hawke wasn't a bystander, he was a guy who tried and failed to maintain the peace and do what he thought was the right thing.

Would I want to play that character all the time?  Probably not.  But the fact is "the hero who saves the day" is 100% of other game protagonists, it was a nice change.

[Fauxnormal]

ThePasserby wrote...

It is puzzling why some find it fun to play a protagonist as inept as Hawke.

I can understand the writers favouring certain NPCs over the PC and have them pull a fast one on Hawke. Not a qaulity I'd admire on a game writer, but understandable. But why players enjoy playing a bystander is beyond me.

That's your own problem. Don't play. Bye!

[Mr.House]

ThePasserby wrote...

Mr.House wrote...

By this logic then Izzy, Varric, Betrand, Jeneka and Tallis can also be blamed.

Are these people the protagonists?

These people where just as part of the stuff Hawke was part, some even more. If Hawke never met Varric and Betrand, they never would have found the idol in the first place. If jeneka was not weak the whole Cory thing would have been advoided. It has nothing to do with Hawke being a protagonist, it has to do with you can't fully blame Hawke.

Modificata da Mr.House, 14 ottobre 2011 - 05:44 .

[Mr.House]

ThePasserby wrote...

It is puzzling why some find it fun to play a protagonist as inept as Hawke.

I can understand the writers favouring certain NPCs over the PC and have them pull a fast one on Hawke. Not a qaulity I'd admire on a game writer, but understandable. But why players enjoy playing a bystander is beyond me.

I found my Warden babysitting just asm uch as Hawke.

[Wulfram]

I do think it's getting a bit silly, particularly since they fail on a small scale rather a lot too. Act 1 isn't too bad, but in the other 2 acts a pro-mage Hawke basically fails at every main quest.

[Ryzaki]

I wouldn't be bothered so much if my Hawke could *try* not to fail. (call out Larius on being possessed just for him to get away, try to get the scroll just for elf chick to run away).

But as it is. Meh.

[Fauxnormal]

Ryzaki wrote...

I wouldn't be bothered so much if my Hawke could *try* not to fail. (call out Larius on being possessed just for him to get away, try to get the scroll just for elf chick to run away).

But as it is. Meh.

Stop. Metagaming.

Just because YOU, the PLAYER, have the suspcion that Larius was possessed IN NO WAY means that Hawke had any way of knowing, proving, or even guessing at it. Yes, okay, so to make you supa-happy, the game could have given you the option to kill Larius.

But honestly? There's no in-game reason to do so unless you're a jerk. because, IN GAME, Hawke has no way to prove or know that Larius is possessed. None.

[Wulfram]

Mr.House wrote...

By this logic then Izzy, Varric, Betrand, Jeneka and Tallis can also be blamed.

Yes, they can.  Except in Tallis' case she at least achieved her objective rather than being incompetent or an unwitting tool.

Modificata da Wulfram, 14 ottobre 2011 - 05:48 .

[ThePasserby]

Upsettingshorts wrote...

ThePasserby wrote...

It is puzzling why some find it fun to play a protagonist as inept as Hawke.

My Hawke wasn't a bystander, he was a guy who tried and failed to maintain the peace and do what he thought was the right thing.

Would I want to play that character all the time?  Probably not.  But the fact is "the hero who saves the day" is 100% of other game protagonists, it was a nice change.

If you know that DA3 will be another "hero" as inconsequential as Hawke, will you buy and play it?

[Lisa_H]

Fauxnormal wrote...

This. I'll take Hawke over some boring, bland, do-everything-perfect hero any day. Why? Because Hawke is human, and (well, depending on how you play), doing their best to make something good out of a set of really ****ty circumstances. A hero is someone who tries to help, tries to fix, tries to save. A hero is NOT nessicarily someone who pulls it off all the time.

The point of the game is and was to be dark and gritty; that sometimes, no matter what you do, things go downhill anyway. People are annoyed because they couldn't change the outcome of the game, but guess what? Sometimes, you CAN'T change the way things happen.

I agree with this

[Ryzaki]

Stop. Metagaming.

Just because YOU, the PLAYER, have the suspcion that Larius was possessed IN NO WAY means that Hawke had any way of knowing, proving, or even guessing at it. Yes, okay, so to make you supa-happy, the game could have given you the option to kill Larius.

But honestly? There's no in-game reason to do so unless you're a jerk. because, IN GAME, Hawke has no way to prove or know that Larius is possessed. None.

Yes because there's no way my Hawke will think it odd that Larius is talking differently and similarily to an ancient tevinter magister is odd. No way.

Unless I'm a jerk? Uh...what? 

Supa-happy? 

And you obviously didn't bother reading my post. I Never asked for te option to kill Larius. Merely to *Attempt* to. Hawke failing at *that* would've been perfectly fine. IF you think that one comsetic choice will hurt your  precious railroaded plot that much then whatever. You got your choice and I got railroaded. Yay. 

Modificata da Ryzaki, 14 ottobre 2011 - 05:51 .

[ThePasserby]

Fauxnormal wrote...

Stop. Metagaming.

Just because YOU, the PLAYER, have the suspcion that Larius was possessed IN NO WAY means that Hawke had any way of knowing, proving, or even guessing at it. Yes, okay, so to make you supa-happy, the game could have given you the option to kill Larius.

But honestly? There's no in-game reason to do so unless you're a jerk. because, IN GAME, Hawke has no way to prove or know that Larius is possessed. None.

You must be role playing a pretty dumb Hawke then, I suppose?

[upsettingshorts]

ThePasserby wrote...

If you know that DA3 will be another "hero" as inconsequential as Hawke, will you buy and play it?

It wouldn't be a factor in my purchasing decision.  Probably because I don't self-insert and try not to metagame too much. 

[hoorayforicecream]

Dramatic irony makes many players rage.

[Fauxnormal]

yes, because Larius's reason made no sense AT ALLLLL.

Seriously, people, you can't separate yourself from your character. Hawke. Had. No. Proof. Period.