703 réponses à ce sujet

[upsettingshorts]

ThePasserby wrote...

And it doesn't matter whether Wulfram is offended or not. It doesn't change the fact that you were trying to tell him how to play his game.

ThePasserby wrote...

Why? Why do you keep giving me examples of your pontifications?

Why do you assume others even want to poke their nose into how you play, to justify your poking into theirs?

For someone who claims to use words like a fencer, you're having a really hard time distinguishing between "you must play this way because I told you to" and "I believe your playstyle is negatively impacting your opinion of the game."

Like I said before, I'm also relying on my established reputation as being a guy who defends everyone's right to play however they want, that some playstyles are ultimately incompatible, that what is good for one player is bad for another, and recognizing that everyone does approach RPGs differently.  That you're unaware of it is irrelevant to me as long as the people I'm directing my comments at are, and I believe they understand where I'm coming from.  If they don't, I'll certainly endeavor to explain it better.

Wulfram wrote...

The Warden's personality matters far more, because it's allowed to have an effect.

On a macro level, on a micro level no character really cares what the Warden thinks or feels, except Wynne when she asks what being a Warden means to them.  And even that annoyed me because I couldn't express resentment, but it still counts.  

Modifié par Upsettingshorts, 14 octobre 2011 - 11:04 .

[Addai]

Upsettingshorts wrote...
Then that's your fault.  Just like if I said my Warden was a bland emotionless errand boy you'd be well within your rights to say I didn't exercise my imagination enough, or play the game the right way.

DA2 gives you a ton of opportunities to establish Hawke's motivation, and "didn't give a damn" is a possible one, but not one we all have to share.

No, they don't give you any opportunity to establish why you let Anders live- even going back to the first time he turns blue, but certainly after Ella- hell I'd even settle for a chance to execute Elthina- or why you let Petrice walk out, or in smaller instances like in doing nothing about Hubert's mine, or now in how you deal with Tallis.  That's the whole point.  There IS no rational explanation for these moments of vacancy, except that Hawke is an incompetent buffoon.

It would be different if Hawke were a working stiff, but she's not.  She actually has power and influence, and chooses not to use them.  The only answers I can come up with as to why she doesn't leave me hating the character.  Mission accomplished, I guess?

[AtreiyaN7]

ThePasserby wrote...

AtreiyaN7 wrote...


All hail the guy who makes specious arguments/attacks and can't back anything up: ThePasserby!

You haven't proved that, but yeah, you're joining me in the dark side in playing diry.

Yeah, being snarky is a LOT more fun at this point. I think I'm going with that approach for the rest of this thread.

Glad that you've seen the light.

I don't have to prove anything. People will judge you as being credible or not, along with determining whether or not you're twisting everything to suit your purposes based on your posts. As far as I'm concerned, I'm convinced of one thing: that one can't actually have anything resembling an intelligent discussion or debate with you.

[TEWR]

TheCreeper wrote...

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

TheCreeper wrote...

How is someone who killed the Arishok and either sucessfully put down a Mage Revolt or helped that mage revolt and was (mostly) successful freaking ineffectual? Was The Grey Warden ineffectual for not stopping the Fifth Blight at Ostagar? Was Commander Shepard ineffectual for getting killed by the collectors or not killing all of the Reapers in ME1? There are certain things that are always going to be beyond control of the PC, Hawke had no way of knowning that Meredith had that idol (do you think there was a paper trail to follow? it could have been sold outside free marches for all hawke knew) and by the time Act 3 started so much was set into motion that even if Meredith had died before attempting to enact the right things might have still gone horribly wrong.

I don't think Hawke killing the Arishok makes him ineffectual. It's the fact that he does it with his SUPER BADASSERY and kills so many Qunari that makes it a bit unbelievable. A rise to power is about building connections you can rely on. A rise to power is about politics. Most of the people Hawke interacts with could in fact help him save the city. The smugglers or mercenaries, Vanard's forces (if he has any) or the elves of the alienage, etc.

That's what DAII should've been. story changing. How did Hawke rise to power? Who did he ally with that helped him? Who were his allies outside of the companions that he could call on when he needed them?

Also, the Arishok should've done a bit more stuff if he wanted to win. Use the saar-qamek on the stairs to keep any intruders away while he secures the Keep and line some Saarebas and Ashaads at the stairwell to kill them. Since Kossith are immune to the effects of the gas (something the Arishok makes clear) it would be a very sound strategy.

The Arishok didn't expect or really want to win, he was just sick of all the BS he had to put up with and wanted a way out of his duty to get that book back, if hawke gives him the book and isabella he immediately leaves. If he respects hawke he makes it very clear that he pretty much expects them to kill him, which would allow all the other Qunari to leave. 

He did want to win. He was planning on converting everyone. That kinda means he wanted to win. His forces were even bolstered by Elven converts! A lot actually. Granted they had no real combat experience, but neither did Alec the Sheepherder.

[HAM Hawke]

ThePasserby wrote...

HAM Hawke wrote...

ThePasserby wrote...

HAM Hawke wrote...

b09boy wrote...

I find it amusing the number of things the DA2 storyline was about.

"The game is about how you can't always change how things are going to turn out."
"The game is about how the mage/templar war began."
"The game is about Hawke's rise to power."
"The game is about family."
"The game is about being in the center of events as they're happening."
"The game has a very personal story."
"The game has a very epic story."

All of this is correct. The game tries to be about all of this. Problem being these sort of themes conflict without very exacting attention. If the game is about how you can't change things, why give the choice? Or, why doesn't Hawke try to change them only to fail? There's no follow-through so the theme falls flat. If it's about the mage/templar war, what's the point of any of the story aside from the third act? If it's about Hawke's rise to power, where is s/he at the end and why do we skip so many important story points in which Hawke is raised to power? if the game is about family, why are they all gone by the mid point of the game? If it's about being a bystander, why isn't Hawke being the one interviewed? Or why not make Varric the protagonist - he was along for the ride just as much. Why would an onlooker tell the story about an onlooker? If it's a personal story why don't we get the opportunity to develop the motivations of Hawke and the other central characters in the story? If it's an epic story, why is Hawke so ineffectual?

That's what DLC is for silly!

Right ... you must be referring to the one where Tallis makes off with the names of Qunari spies while Hawke stands there grasping his new shiny.

No Pass you by.  Hopefully all those questions b09boy asked will be answered in more DLC......But since you hate the game and wanna beat it to death, I don't suppose we will have to hear your remarks about future content...

More attempts at witticism!

But yes, I won't be giving reviews of future DLCs or games since I won't be buying them. But I'll be sure not to read yours, seeing as you seem to have a rather low bar for such things.

Hey it's just a video game geesh!  I'm just on here to pass time.  You on the other hand, must be in it for some sort of selfgratification....Get over yourself already....

[upsettingshorts]

Addai67 wrote...

No, they don't give you any opportunity to establish why you let Anders live- even going back to the first time he turns blue, but certainly after Ella- hell I'd even settle for a chance to execute Elthina- or why you let Petrice walk out, or in smaller instances like in doing nothing about Hubert's mine, or now in how you deal with Tallis.  That's the whole point.  There IS no rational explanation for these moments of vacancy, except that Hawke is an incompetent buffoon.

I'll concede that yes, there are exceptions.

I will never concede that the only explanation for Hawke's inaction is incompetence.  

Addai67 wrote...

It would be different if Hawke were a working stiff, but she's not.

I thought the entirety of Act I was "Hawke is a working stiff."  Considering he's just gotten out of indentured servitude and scraping together coin doing random oddjobs.

Addai67 wrote...

She actually has power and influence, and chooses not to use them.  The only answers I can come up with as to why she doesn't leave me hating the character.  Mission accomplished, I guess?

Hawke has influence, but no power - with the exception of the very end of the game if you choose the Templar ending.  The title Champion is an honorific.  While the Viscount is alive, you are still essentially his subject.  Once he is gone, Meredith is effectively the military governor of Kirkwall. 

Elthina is the one who has power and influence and chooses not to use them.

Hawke can attempt to exert his influence on Elthina, Meredith, Orsino, and the Arishok and they're all so caught up in their own perspective and events that they simply do not listen, and since The Champion does not outrank any of them in any capacity, it cannot be claimed that he had power over them he did not exercise.

Modifié par Upsettingshorts, 14 octobre 2011 - 11:13 .

[ThePasserby]

Upsettingshorts wrote...

For someone who claims to use words like a fencer, you're having a really hard time distinguishing between "you must play this way because I told you to" and "I believe your playstyle is negatively impacting your opinion of the game."

For someone who claims to fight for everyone's right to play how they
want, you love passing judgement on how other play, don't you?



And if they happen to play in a way that you don't approve, you say its their fault, right? I've seen you do just that.

[ipgd]

ThePasserby wrote...

For someone who claims to fight for everyone's right to play how they
want, you love passing judgement on how other play, don't you?



And if they happen to play in a way that you don't approve, you say its their fault, right? I've seen you do just that.

Stop posting.

[TheCreeper]

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

TheCreeper wrote...

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

TheCreeper wrote...

How is someone who killed the Arishok and either sucessfully put down a Mage Revolt or helped that mage revolt and was (mostly) successful freaking ineffectual? Was The Grey Warden ineffectual for not stopping the Fifth Blight at Ostagar? Was Commander Shepard ineffectual for getting killed by the collectors or not killing all of the Reapers in ME1? There are certain things that are always going to be beyond control of the PC, Hawke had no way of knowning that Meredith had that idol (do you think there was a paper trail to follow? it could have been sold outside free marches for all hawke knew) and by the time Act 3 started so much was set into motion that even if Meredith had died before attempting to enact the right things might have still gone horribly wrong.

I don't think Hawke killing the Arishok makes him ineffectual. It's the fact that he does it with his SUPER BADASSERY and kills so many Qunari that makes it a bit unbelievable. A rise to power is about building connections you can rely on. A rise to power is about politics. Most of the people Hawke interacts with could in fact help him save the city. The smugglers or mercenaries, Vanard's forces (if he has any) or the elves of the alienage, etc.

That's what DAII should've been. story changing. How did Hawke rise to power? Who did he ally with that helped him? Who were his allies outside of the companions that he could call on when he needed them?

Also, the Arishok should've done a bit more stuff if he wanted to win. Use the saar-qamek on the stairs to keep any intruders away while he secures the Keep and line some Saarebas and Ashaads at the stairwell to kill them. Since Kossith are immune to the effects of the gas (something the Arishok makes clear) it would be a very sound strategy.

The Arishok didn't expect or really want to win, he was just sick of all the BS he had to put up with and wanted a way out of his duty to get that book back, if hawke gives him the book and isabella he immediately leaves. If he respects hawke he makes it very clear that he pretty much expects them to kill him, which would allow all the other Qunari to leave. 

He did want to win. He was planning on converting everyone. That kinda means he wanted to win. His forces were even bolstered by Elven converts! A lot actually. Granted they had no real combat experience, but neither did Alec the Sheepherder.

Listen to him when he respects hawke, there are strong implications what he is doing is more or less hawke assisted suicide. His trying to convert the nobles was probably him trying to get rid of everything that pissed him off so much in the 4 years he was stuck there, didn't mean he though he would live to see the result. He had to know it couldn't work, a Qunari run city state thousands of miles away from the rest of the Qunari would immediately attract the ire of every other city in the free-marches, then if worse came to worse, it would get an exalted  march declared on it.

[AtreiyaN7]

ThePasserby wrote...

Upsettingshorts wrote...

For someone who claims to use words like a fencer, you're having a really hard time distinguishing between "you must play this way because I told you to" and "I believe your playstyle is negatively impacting your opinion of the game."

For someone who claims to fight for everyone's right to play how they
want, you love passing judgement on how other play, don't you?



And if they happen to play in a way that you don't approve, you say its their fault, right? I've seen you do just that.

He's giving his opinion that they're not enjoying it because of their particular approach to the game. He's not dictating to them how they should play.

[Addai]

Upsettingshorts wrote...
I thought the entirety of Act I was "Hawke is a working stiff."

I have no real problem with act 1.  Unlike other people who don't like the idea of Hawke working for money, that's about the only major plot development that makes sense to me.

Hawke has influence, but no power - with the exception of the very end of the game if you choose the Templar ending.  The title Champion is an honorific.  While the Viscount is alive, you are still essentially his subject.  Once he is gone, Meredith is effectively the military governor of Kirkwall. 

Hawke can make people explode- in a city with no army and not much of a guard to speak of, that is power.  For some reason, a mage Hawke is never touched despite possibly mage'ing with impunity in a templar-controlled city.  Hawke has personal and direct access to all key players at some time in the game.  All it would take is a knife in the neck to change the power balance in Kirkwall.  Again- even if that still ended in civil war- Hawke would have done something.

[TEWR]

ThePasserby wrote...

I knew something was up when Leandra mentioned she had a lover, who often sent her flowers. And I didn't have more information than Hawke, as I saw everything about the case through his eyes, so it's not yet another "dramatic irony". So, once more, dumb Hawke, dead mum.

I don't remember her mentioning her suitor sent her flowers. I know Bodahn says she received flowers, but I don't think Leandra ever made mention of receiving flowers

[stevrnic]

katling73 wrote...

...It was never Hawke's task to save the world. Hawke was never meant to be a protagonist...

In fact, Hawke is really a spoiler.  The main events of the three acts would of happened with or without Hawke's involvment.  They were destined to happen.  It is actually Hawke's involvement that improves the results of these events.  If Hawke is a spoiler, what would of happenned if Hawke never made it to Kirkwall.  If Hawke never made it to Kirkwall The expedition would have eventually been funded and the idol could still end up in Meridith's possession, causeing the face-off between the Templars and the mages.  Without Hawke, Aveline would have also never made it to Kirkwall.  The city guard would have been currupt and without Aveline's leadrship would not have been prepared to handle the Arishock (spelling?).  In the ensuing chaos, Anders actions could still take place and with the idol's influence Meridith could easily put down the mage revolt and take full control of the city.  Such actions would make Meridith a hero to the chantry and allow the idol to end end up with a more powerful membe rof the Chantry.

Someone mentioned Hawke is an agent of chaos, but actually he is a balance bringer.  The Arishock and the idol are true agents of chaos, counteracting extreme order.  Hawke is disrupting what has been preordained.  Kirkwall is extreme order gone wrong and Hawke's involvement actually brings hope to its people.  With hope comes better tomorrows.  Hawke is no hero, just a catalyst of change and a challenge to the fates.

[upsettingshorts]

ThePasserby wrote...

For someone who claims to fight for everyone's right to play how they want, you love passing judgement on how other play, don't you?

Have you never heard the saying, "Only Nixon could go to China?" 

And please, I don't need to invent claims as to what positions I consistently advocate.  The people I am conversing with now I've had plenty of experience with, some of it good, some of it bad, but I have no doubts whatsoever that they're aware I'm not trying to reach through their screens and demand they play a certain way, only explain why our opinions on the same topic can be so different.  I haven't really said anything new in this thread I haven't argued with them or people arguing the same position as them before.

ThePasserby wrote...


And if they happen to play in a way that you don't approve, you say its their fault, right? I've seen you do just that.

My position has remained consistent.  There are some types of gamers to which DAO would appeal more, and others to which DA2 would appeal more.  If someone who prefers DAO in certain ways approaches DA2 in the same way is disappointed, my position is that this is natural because of their style and expectations.  It cuts both ways, in the sense that to many I play DAO incorrectly, and that's a fair point.  

Since we don't all approach games in the same way, it is perfectly reasonable to point out that if you approach a certain game in a certain way, it may simply not be meant for you, or you may have to adjust if you're determined to get your money's worth out of it.  It's up to you, not me.

Addai67 wrote...

Hawke can make people explode- in a city with no army and not much of a guard to speak of, that is power.  For some reason, a mage Hawke is never touched despite possibly mage'ing with impunity in a templar-controlled city.  Hawke has personal and direct access to all key players at some time in the game.  All it would take is a knife in the neck to change the power balance in Kirkwall.  Again- even if that still ended in civil war- Hawke would have done something.

Ah now see there's some common ground we can find to agree on.

The gameplay-story segregation of Dragon Age 2 sucks, and while it's been a BioWare problem for a long time, DA2 is clearly their worst effort in this regard.  I've got some theories as to why this is, but this is the wrong thread for them.  Suffice to say I think it's a side effect of their dedication to telling a story combined with their dedication to a combat-heavy experience with little in the way of noncombat skills.

Modifié par Upsettingshorts, 14 octobre 2011 - 11:23 .

[HAM Hawke]

ipgd wrote...

ThePasserby wrote...

For someone who claims to fight for everyone's right to play how they
want, you love passing judgement on how other play, don't you?



And if they happen to play in a way that you don't approve, you say its their fault, right? I've seen you do just that.

Stop posting.

BWHAHAHAHAHAH! ^^^   For real.....

[TEWR]

Addai67 wrote...

Upsettingshorts wrote...
I thought the entirety of Act I was "Hawke is a working stiff."

I have no real problem with act 1.  Unlike other people who don't like the idea of Hawke working for money, that's about the only major plot development that makes sense to me.

Hawke has influence, but no power - with the exception of the very end of the game if you choose the Templar ending.  The title Champion is an honorific.  While the Viscount is alive, you are still essentially his subject.  Once he is gone, Meredith is effectively the military governor of Kirkwall. 

Hawke can make people explode- in a city with no army and not much of a guard to speak of, that is power.  For some reason, a mage Hawke is never touched despite possibly mage'ing with impunity in a templar-controlled city.  Hawke has personal and direct access to all key players at some time in the game.  All it would take is a knife in the neck to change the power balance in Kirkwall.  Again- even if that still ended in civil war- Hawke would have done something.

Regarding Act I, I think Hawke should've also been working on building political connections and allies to help with regaining the estate, and the game should've used these instances in the plot.

He can be a crucial ally to the Wardens and Amaranthine in three quests (Avernus', Amaranthine Conspirators, The Secret Meeting). He can side with Vanard or the elves of the alienage in the Kelder quest, which means he has the support of either Vanard and his men (especially if you blackmail him) or the support of the elves who could see Hawke as being one human who isn't a bad person.

And so on and so forth.

[TheCreeper]

Addai67 wrote...

Upsettingshorts wrote...
I thought the entirety of Act I was "Hawke is a working stiff."

I have no real problem with act 1.  Unlike other people who don't like the idea of Hawke working for money, that's about the only major plot development that makes sense to me.

Hawke has influence, but no power - with the exception of the very end of the game if you choose the Templar ending.  The title Champion is an honorific.  While the Viscount is alive, you are still essentially his subject.  Once he is gone, Meredith is effectively the military governor of Kirkwall. 

Hawke can make people explode- in a city with no army and not much of a guard to speak of, that is power.  For some reason, a mage Hawke is never touched despite possibly mage'ing with impunity in a templar-controlled city.  Hawke has personal and direct access to all key players at some time in the game.  All it would take is a knife in the neck to change the power balance in Kirkwall.  Again- even if that still ended in civil war- Hawke would have done something.

Hawke gets away with being an apostate in a templar city because in the first act she is below the rader and working on a way to get power so s/he has something to block the templars from arresting her, By Act 2 your noble status and connection to the vicount make you harder to touch by Act 3  you are the City's protector but Meredith makes it clear you only have so much leeway with  her and if you refuse her too much she would lock your ass up.

Yeah a knife would have changed things, so would the grey warden knifing Harrowmount before being sent to grab Paragon Branka, and knifing Loghain when you first encounter him in Denerim would have eleminated the need for a Landsmeet.

[ThePasserby]

AtreiyaN7 wrote...

ThePasserby wrote...

AtreiyaN7 wrote...



Really? I guess Hawke's goal was to have his mother murdered and made a walking doll. (ThePasserby)

How about that part up above where you tried to twist events in order to fit your point about Hawke's failure/ineptitude?

Wasn't that in reply to "Hawke achieves his/her goals"?

We can assume that one of Hawke's goals is to keep his mother safe.

But she died. So, we can only draw two conclusions:

1) Hawke failed (so he doesn't achieves his/her goals)

2) it was his goal to have his mother killed all long (so he does achieves his goals)

Take your pick.

And no, there can't be any middle paths like "he can't be expected to win all the time!", because the statement "Hawke achieves his/her goals" precludes that.

So you have to choose, 1 or 2?

If you choose 1, then the statement "Hawke achieves his/her goals" is false.

If you choose 2, then that statement's veracity is maintained.

So pick.

There you go again: ignoring the whole post and context of the example while trying to twist things. You're ignoring the entire quest chain and picking something that suits your purposes. What did the actual quest chain involve? It involved Hawke track down the serial killer over a period of years. Leandra getting caught up in it and being murdered herself was a tragic outcome based on the killer's predilections. It's easy to set completely arbitray "goals" by which to measure a character's actions.

Does Hawke catch the serial killer? Yes - Hawke certainly succeeeded in THAT "goal." Does he succeed at the "goal" of saving Leandra? No, but it sure as heck wasn't due to incompetence/ineptitude as implied by you and the OP, which is the very thing that I was refuting earlier. i never stated that Hawke succeeds at every single thing he/she wants in life. I was refuting the idea that Hawke's supposed "failures" result from him/her beng incompetent.

Ok ... so you agree that your statement "Hawke achieves his/her goals" is false? Since you said he doesn't succeed at every single goal, right?



.

[ThePasserby]

ipgd wrote...

ThePasserby wrote...

For someone who claims to fight for everyone's right to play how they
want, you love passing judgement on how other play, don't you?



And if they happen to play in a way that you don't approve, you say its their fault, right? I've seen you do just that.

Stop posting.

Um ... no.

[TEWR]

TheCreeper wrote...

Addai67 wrote...

Upsettingshorts wrote...
I thought the entirety of Act I was "Hawke is a working stiff."

I have no real problem with act 1.  Unlike other people who don't like the idea of Hawke working for money, that's about the only major plot development that makes sense to me.

Hawke has influence, but no power - with the exception of the very end of the game if you choose the Templar ending.  The title Champion is an honorific.  While the Viscount is alive, you are still essentially his subject.  Once he is gone, Meredith is effectively the military governor of Kirkwall. 

Hawke can make people explode- in a city with no army and not much of a guard to speak of, that is power.  For some reason, a mage Hawke is never touched despite possibly mage'ing with impunity in a templar-controlled city.  Hawke has personal and direct access to all key players at some time in the game.  All it would take is a knife in the neck to change the power balance in Kirkwall.  Again- even if that still ended in civil war- Hawke would have done something.

Hawke gets away with being an apostate in a templar city because in the first act she is below the rader and working on a way to get power so s/he has something to block the templars from arresting her, By Act 2 your noble status and connection to the vicount make you harder to touch by Act 3  you are the City's protector but Meredith makes it clear you only have so much leeway with  her and if you refuse her too much she would lock your ass up.

Yeah a knife would have changed things, so would the grey warden knifing Harrowmount before being sent to grab Paragon Branka, and knifing Loghain when you first encounter him in Denerim would have eleminated the need for a Landsmeet.

below the radar? He casts magic right in front of Cullen! And what's worse, Cullen has to rely on hearing rumors after that quest to begin to even think that Hawke or Bethany is a mage!

[Wulfram]

Upsettingshorts wrote...

Hawke has influence, but no power

Hawke is the second most important person in the city in Act 3.  Varric says so.

Modifié par Wulfram, 14 octobre 2011 - 11:26 .

[upsettingshorts]

Wulfram wrote...

Hawke is the second most important person in the city in Act 3.  Varric says so.

Importance isn't power.

To use an example raised earlier in an entirely different context:  The Archduke Franz Ferdinand was important in 1914, but he had no real power.

If he had power, he could order people to obey him.  And if he's the second most important, that means at least one of either Meredith, Orsino, or Elthina ranks under him and would have to follow his commands.  Since none of them treat him as much more than an impressive individual they can exploit for their purposes, it stands to reason his power is imaginary at best.

Modifié par Upsettingshorts, 14 octobre 2011 - 11:28 .

[ThePasserby]

AtreiyaN7 wrote...

ThePasserby wrote...

Upsettingshorts wrote...

For someone who claims to use words like a fencer, you're having a really hard time distinguishing between "you must play this way because I told you to" and "I believe your playstyle is negatively impacting your opinion of the game."

For someone who claims to fight for everyone's right to play how they
want, you love passing judgement on how other play, don't you?



And if they happen to play in a way that you don't approve, you say its their fault, right? I've seen you do just that.

He's giving his opinion that they're not enjoying it because of their particular approach to the game. He's not dictating to them how they should play.

It is still passing judgement on how others play, is it not?

[TheCreeper]

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

TheCreeper wrote...

Addai67 wrote...

Upsettingshorts wrote...
I thought the entirety of Act I was "Hawke is a working stiff."

I have no real problem with act 1.  Unlike other people who don't like the idea of Hawke working for money, that's about the only major plot development that makes sense to me.

Hawke has influence, but no power - with the exception of the very end of the game if you choose the Templar ending.  The title Champion is an honorific.  While the Viscount is alive, you are still essentially his subject.  Once he is gone, Meredith is effectively the military governor of Kirkwall. 

Hawke can make people explode- in a city with no army and not much of a guard to speak of, that is power.  For some reason, a mage Hawke is never touched despite possibly mage'ing with impunity in a templar-controlled city.  Hawke has personal and direct access to all key players at some time in the game.  All it would take is a knife in the neck to change the power balance in Kirkwall.  Again- even if that still ended in civil war- Hawke would have done something.

Hawke gets away with being an apostate in a templar city because in the first act she is below the rader and working on a way to get power so s/he has something to block the templars from arresting her, By Act 2 your noble status and connection to the vicount make you harder to touch by Act 3  you are the City's protector but Meredith makes it clear you only have so much leeway with  her and if you refuse her too much she would lock your ass up.

Yeah a knife would have changed things, so would the grey warden knifing Harrowmount before being sent to grab Paragon Branka, and knifing Loghain when you first encounter him in Denerim would have eleminated the need for a Landsmeet.

below the radar? He casts magic right in front of Cullen! And what's worse, Cullen has to rely on hearing rumors after that quest to begin to even think that Hawke or Bethany is a mage!

Gameplay Story Disconnect, it's a lot like how In Origins you could make Wynne a blood mage even though she would never do that in a million years.

[Morroian]

ThePasserby wrote...

Anyroad2 wrote...

Yeah. I knew it came to that once he told me that my viewpoint on things were worthless because I didn't play a decade old expansion to Boulders Gate 2 that he did. That apparently made me a "new fan", even though I've been playing Bioware games since KotOR. >_>

You don't think that what Bioware has done in Balder's Gate has any bearing on a game touted as Balder's Gate's spiritual successor. Okaayyy ...

*gently backs away*

DA2 has never been called BGs spiritual successor. DAO was (although BW backed away from that) but they are 2 separate games.