15 réponses à ce sujet

[someone else]

I realize much of the answer is "it depends" but the 4 level passive powers seem very potent, and also use up all the points  - in general, a good idea or better to use 3 of the 4 pts on specials? 

[CoffeeHolic93]

Team Skill Building and Leveling Up. 

[someone else]

thanks - why did I ever bother with law school - this stuff is at least as complex and much more useful..

[idspisp0pd]

I think general advice like the linked thread should be taken with a grain of salt since it all depends on what your class is and how you plan to use your squaddies. (For example, if you're an adept, maxing out Zaeed's squad disruptor is a no-brainer, but if you are a soldier, the OP's advice to put no points in it makes much more sense.)

As for your question specifically, I assume by "special" you mean the loyalty powers, in which case I'd say there really can't be any general advice because they range from redundant/mostly useless (slam, shredder & AP ammo, etc) to awesome and versatile (reave, flashbang grenade, etc).

For me, a power that I use a lot will almost always trump passives, so if I max out a passive, it's only after I've already maxed out all the character's other useful powers.

[CoffeeHolic93]

True, but it's a general overview of possible builds. And the OP plays a Soldier so he gives soldier advice. The other posters like Pacifien comes with other viable builds.

[xassantex]

i tend to max out their passive for weapon damage and better health , or faster CD depending who it is.
then it depends what powers i like to have in a given class.

[Darkstar Aurora]

At the minimum I take their passive skill to rank 3, if for no other reason than keeping them alive long enough to finish their out of cover weapon firing cycles.

It mostly depends on:
Is their secondary power (unlocked at rank 2 of primary power) good enough to evolve?
Is their loyalty power good enough to evolve?
How much am I really losing out in terms of quantified stats by keeping their passive at rank 3?

I had this dilemma when it came to Jack and Samara. I wanted them both to have Pull Field on a fast cooldown, but also wanted their loyalty powers evolved to their area/squad versions. Because Throw/Shockwave are prerequisites for Pull it is impossible to evolve all three of the powers I wanted. So then I did the math to weigh the benefits of sinking another 4 points into their passive skills...and I found I was not impressed.

With cooldown upgrades the differences between rank 3 of Subject Zero/Asari Justicar and their evolved Primal Adept/Sapiens Justicar (-25% power recharge) versions are:

* Health increased by further +10 points (additional +5%)
* Throw/Pull recharge time reduced by further -0.58 seconds
* Shockwave/Reave recharge time reduced by further -0.84 seconds

Even when I am in my most obsessive mood regarding the use of the radial menu for pause-and-play RPG style combat, I am still certain that my reaction time will never be fast enough to truly take advantage of a half second decrease. Meanwhile 10 health points isn’t even enough to stop one bullet...from any weapon, and if it truly did make a difference I could just bring along Miranda.

As much as I like to maximize a unique trait I would gladly give up having their powers recharge a half second faster for being able to evolve their loyalty powers to affect multiple targets.

I think with all squad members it is worth crunching the numbers and weighing all options. Also remember to account for skill requirements and skill point totals when planning (31 for Miranda/Jacob, 30 for everyone else, with 1 point assigned to loyalty powers unless you retrain)

Modifié par Darkstar Aurora, 15 octobre 2011 - 11:54 .

[CoffeeHolic93]

Darkstar Aurora wrote...

At the minimum I take their passive skill to rank 3, if for no other reason than keeping them alive long enough to finish their out of cover weapon firing cycles.

It mostly depends on:
Is their secondary power (unlocked at rank 2 of primary power) good enough to evolve?
Is their loyalty power good enough to evolve?
How much am I really losing out in terms of quantified stats by keeping their passive at rank 3?

I had this dilemma when it came to Jack and Samara. I wanted them both to have Pull Field on a fast cooldown, but also wanted their loyalty powers evolved to their area/squad versions. Because Throw/Shockwave are prerequisites for Pull it is impossible to evolve all three of the powers I wanted. So then I did the math to weigh the benefits of sinking another 4 points into their passive skills...and I found I was not impressed.

With cooldown upgrades the differences between rank 3 of Subject Zero/Asari Justicar and their evolved Primal Adept/Sapiens Justicar (-25% power recharge) versions are:

* Health increased by further +10 points (additional +5%)
* Throw/Pull recharge time reduced by further -0.58 seconds
* Shockwave/Reave recharge time reduced by further -0.84 seconds

Even when I am in my most obsessive mood regarding the use of the radial menu for pause-and-play RPG style combat, I am still certain that my reaction time will never be fast enough to truly take advantage of a half second decrease. Meanwhile 10 health points isn’t even enough to stop one bullet...from any weapon, and if it truly did make a difference I could just bring along Miranda.

As much as I like to maximize a unique trait I would gladly give up having their powers recharge a half second faster for being able to evolve their loyalty powers to affect multiple targets.

I think with all squad members it is worth crunching the numbers and weighing all options. Also remember to account for skill requirements and skill point totals when planning (31 for Miranda/Jacob, 30 for everyone else, with 1 point assigned to loyalty powers unless you retrain)

Correct, my preferred build for Jack/Samara is 2, 4, 3, 4 unless I'm playing the Soldier, Vanguard or Infiltrator (I don't need warp ammo for those classes.

Modifié par Mi-Chan, 15 octobre 2011 - 12:32 .

[ryoldschool]

Darkstar Aurora wrote...

...snip...

As much as I like to maximize a unique trait I would gladly give up having their powers recharge a half second faster for being able to evolve their loyalty powers to affect multiple targets.

I think with all squad members it is worth crunching the numbers and weighing all options. Also remember to account for skill requirements and skill point totals when planning (31 for Miranda/Jacob, 30 for everyone else, with 1 point assigned to loyalty powers unless you retrain)

These are very good points, I had never done the math before, but had seen other people not max the passive and wonder why.

I play xbox and unless one of their powers is a ammo power I only need to max one power + the passive because I don't use the powerwheel, and you can only map one squad power per member.  In the LotSB videos I post I have never used Liara's warp ( except for the Shadow Broker fight where I remap it because it has shorter cooldown than singularity ).  But this calculation you did for Jack/Samara helps.  Thanks.

[CoffeeHolic93]

ryoldschool wrote...


These are very good points, I had never done the math before, but had seen other people not max the passive and wonder why.

I play xbox and unless one of their powers is a ammo power I only need to max one power + the passive because I don't use the powerwheel, and you can only map one squad power per member.  In the LotSB videos I post I have never used Liara's warp ( except for the Shadow Broker fight where I remap it because it has shorter cooldown than singularity ).  But this calculation you did for Jack/Samara helps.  Thanks.

I never max Samara's passive as the 2, 4, 3, 4 setup gives me Area Reave AND Pullfield with an 18% cooldown timer. Much better than a 25% cooldown and only one of them. IMO of course.

[idspisp0pd]

Mi-Chan wrote...

I never max Samara's passive as the 2, 4, 3, 4 setup gives me Area Reave AND Pullfield with an 18% cooldown timer. Much better than a 25% cooldown and only one of them. IMO of course.

This is my general philosophy. What's the point of that extra smidgen of survivability and cooldown reduction if you can't put it to use? IMO, AoE versions of powers are too useful on higher difficulties to put that 4 points in a passive instead, at least in many cases. All depends on playstyle and personal preference though, and I don't always stick to that rule.

For example, with Samara, sometimes I'll max out throw, reave, and the passive to make her a husk-killing/knocking-collectors-off-platforms machine, since I like quick cooldowns vs. husks for obvious reasons. But other playthroughs I've used the pull/reave setup instead to make her more versatile on other missions. There are very few right answers with this sort of thing.

[CoffeeHolic93]

idspisp0pd wrote...

This is my general philosophy. What's the point of that extra smidgen of survivability and cooldown reduction if you can't put it to use? IMO, AoE versions of powers are too useful on higher difficulties to put that 4 points in a passive instead, at least in many cases. All depends on playstyle and personal preference though, and I don't always stick to that rule.

For example, with Samara, sometimes I'll max out throw, reave, and the passive to make her a husk-killing/knocking-collectors-off-platforms machine, since I like quick cooldowns vs. husks for obvious reasons. But other playthroughs I've used the pull/reave setup instead to make her more versatile on other missions. There are very few right answers with this sort of thing.

There is one right answer that I will stand by no matter what anyone says. Preference.  Also, if you're stupid aggressive like I am, squadmate survivability isn't an issue. 

[Yezdigerd]

Darkstar Aurora wrote...

As much as I like to maximize a unique trait I would gladly give up having their powers recharge a half second faster for being able to evolve their loyalty powers to affect multiple targets.

When it comes to Samara I disagree, with Sapiens she become an area reave monster spammer, You can even reave shielded units. That almost second is quite noticeable.
Jack isn't worth her fully passive though, since shockwave mostly is a gimmick on insanity. and pull has a short enough cd. ( I love running vanguard with Jacks wide shockwaves though).
The only squad passives I don't think are worth evolving fully, regardless of Shepard's class are Jack,Tali and Kasumi(bugged).

[someone else]

this is all brilliant - glad I picked my head up from the leveling up thread and checked back - something thats been on my wish list would be an app of sorts that would allow trial-specing point allocations - frustrating that you cant do this in game & using the SB app gets expensive at 1k ezero a throw - is there a handy list some where or do I do this the old fashioned way (copy down level up effect with papyrus and ibis quill?)

[CoffeeHolic93]

Trial speccing you say? 

[someone else]

sorry if I was too cryptic - what I meant was a way of allocating points to a given members that would output (tabular or graphic) the resulting profile in terms of health, damage, CD etc. - without having to commit to a build - could  play around with different builds, combos before committing -  hard to this in my head - spreadsheet possible if level specs available - maybe too much work, end benefit unclear - ask mordin...

Modifié par someone else, 17 octobre 2011 - 03:59 .