301 réponses à ce sujet

[LolaLei]

Ryzaki wrote...

Wait seriously?

*le sigh* I really hate the "It's because she's female" arguement. Actually...she'd probably bother me more as a male because then there's a good chance of them being a sexist douche in addition to everything else. Yay.

I guess he was just sticking up for his friend, but I do wish he wouldn't make sweeping generalisations like that, not all females feel threatened by attractive women, let alone pixelated ones! I also personally feel that the way she delivered her lines felt out of keeping with the DA setting, that's not a dig at her accent at all... there was just something really off with her delivery that I can't put my finger on. Could I do it any better? Probably not lol!

Modifié par LolaLei, 11 juin 2012 - 01:48 .

[Ryzaki]

Seriously it can't be the ridculousness of the character, the out of left field she's introduced, the showboating while trying to be regretful and deep and angsty about having to kill, being an elf that's not treated like complete crap and this isn't commented on as something unusual despite...it being unusual, being a manipulative liar and yet your character pretends this is insignificant or worse his/her threats are either ignored or brushed off.

Nope can't be that.

Must be good old female jealousy.

Seriously? GTFO.I hate that arguement. It reeks of "I can't find anything better to defend the character with so I'll claim you're being sexist." 

And what's worse is that all wouldn't be so bad if I didn't find her "humor" so horrible. I could put up with Sten being...Sten because yes he was funny. His bluntness tended to be funny. He also didn't tell my mage she'd be better off under the Qun. He didn't insult her like that. Honestly her not getting the utter stupidity of that statement if Hawke's a mage was facepalm worthy.

It's why I love Javik. He's a jerk but he's hilarious. That makes it significantly less annoying. It's one of the reasons I hated Ameojerk. Not only was he pretentious and insulting but he was overly serious and a buzz kill. He wasn't enjoyable to have around meanwhile I drag Javik everywhere.

"Primitives." 

And yeah I doubt I could do well either but I'm not being paid to voice a character. I shouldn't be expected to. I'm not getting paid to VA a character.

Modifié par Ryzaki, 11 juin 2012 - 02:18 .

[LolaLei]

Ryzaki wrote...

Seriously it can't be the ridculousness of the character, the out of left field she's introduced, the showboating while trying to be regretful and deep and angsty about having to kill, being an elf that's not treated like complete crap and this isn't commented on as something unusual despite...it being unusual, being a manipulative liar and yet your character pretends this is insignificant or worse his/her threats are either ignored or brushed off.

Nope can't be that.

Must be good old female jealousy.

Seriously? GTFO.I hate that arguement. It reeks of "I can't find anything better to defend the character with so I'll claim you're being sexist." 

And what's worse is that all wouldn't be so bad if I didn't find her "humor" so horrible. I could put up with Sten being...Sten because yes he was funny. His bluntness tended to be funny. He also didn't tell my mage she'd be better off under the Qun. He didn't insult her like that. Honestly her not getting the utter stupidity of that statement if Hawke's a mage was facepalm worthy.

It's why I love Javik. He's a jerk but he's hilarious. That makes it significantly less annoying. It's one of the reasons I hated Ameojerk. Not only was he pretentious and insulting but he was overly serious and a buzz kill. He wasn't enjoyable to have around meanwhile I drag Javik everywhere.

"Primitives." 

And yeah I doubt I could do well either but I'm not being paid to voice a character. I shouldn't be expected to. I'm not getting paid to VA a character.

Ah Javik: "The rasta blasta, from the pasta" - what a legend!

Admittedly, I cringed so hard when Hawke asks her why he/she should trust her and Tallis replies "because... I got your nose" - My intial reaction was "Erm, ok... what am I? 5? That was probably supposed to be cute but I actually feel embarrassed for you."

[Ryzaki]

Yes Javik

And yeah that part just had me shake my head. So not funny or cute. Especially not given the situation.

[CuriousArtemis]

I always think that MOTA was such a great DLC ... except for the whole Tallis part xD

Recently I replayed it and swapped her face and outfit out for someone else's, and it was ten times more bearable ... but still, there was the terrible dialogue and poor Ms. Day's voice acting, which is HORRID!

And please note that in swapping out her face I am not saying Felicia Day isn't pretty; she is lovely, but the Tallis face is just UGHUGHUGH! She does not even have the elf nose; why is she sooo special that her face is literally anatomically different from EVERY OTHER ELF'S on Thedas?

[Ihatebadgames]

As for her nose maybe Talis is from DA:O?

[LolaLei]

Medieval nose job? Those murder knifes ain't just for murdering y'know!

[Ryzaki]

LMAO forever.

Seriously though yeah the nose is weird. But I do miss the DAO elves.

[Ndutz]

The elves look terrible in DA II. They also looks like little kid. Hawke romancing Merill feels like a pedophile (her personality doesn't really help either).

Anyway I think Talis is alright shes exactly what i expected, i have not watched redemption but it is kinda cool that the character from it made it into the game. ( Just like how it is cool to have Kai Leng or any other character from the novels is included in the game and interact with the main Character).

One thing i loved about her though is that she's unique in that she have ranged auto-attack despite being dual wield which makes experimenting with her skill set fun especially if you play on nightmare..

[slashthedragon]

I dislike Tallis on principle. You shouldn't base a character on someone who is famous(?). It makes it feel like 'oh well we could have had more DLC with the DA2 characters you've grown to love, but we have a famous person who want to be in a game, so we need to pander to her and her 'fanboys'.

[Grand Admiral Cheesecake]

My murder knife was sadly unused.

It was all "Come on you know we both want to kill her!"

And I was all "Sorry murder knife it appears they won't let us"

And it was sad.

[LolaLei]

slashthedragon wrote...

I dislike Tallis on principle. You shouldn't base a character on someone who is famous(?). It makes it feel like 'oh well we could have had more DLC with the DA2 characters you've grown to love, but we have a famous person who want to be in a game, so we need to pander to her and her 'fanboys'.

Normally I would agree, but Tallis was already a character before hand, whereas Diane Allers was put in for the sake of... hell know what.

[hussey 92]

LolaLei wrote...

slashthedragon wrote...

I dislike Tallis on principle. You shouldn't base a character on someone who is famous(?). It makes it feel like 'oh well we could have had more DLC with the DA2 characters you've grown to love, but we have a famous person who want to be in a game, so we need to pander to her and her 'fanboys'.

Normally I would agree, but Tallis was already a character before hand, whereas Diane Allers was put in for the sake of... hell know what.

Tallis was only a character in a web series.  But the idea of Allers being in the entire ME3 game is definitly worse then Tallis being in one DLC. 

[scotty1234]

I honestly disliked Tallis. The only thing I wanted from her was her outfit and I was dissappointed my F!Hawke couldn't get it. Lmao!

Oh and when I see Tallis all I see is the guy from LOTR, I feel like she should be holding a ring and screaming; MY PRESCIOUS!!!!!

Modifié par scotty1234, 14 juin 2012 - 02:44 .

[hussey 92]

scotty1234 wrote...

I honestly disliked Tallis. The only thing I wanted from her was her outfit and I was dissappointed my F!Hawke couldn't get it. Lmao!

Oh and when I see Tallis all I see is the guy from LOTR, I feel like she should be holding a ring and screaming; MY PRESCIOUS!!!!!

lolz, She does look pretty bad

[wsandista]

hussey 92 wrote...

scotty1234 wrote...

I honestly disliked Tallis. The only thing I wanted from her was her outfit and I was dissappointed my F!Hawke couldn't get it. Lmao!

Oh and when I see Tallis all I see is the guy from LOTR, I feel like she should be holding a ring and screaming; MY PRESCIOUS!!!!!

lolz, She does look pretty bad

http://t1.gstatic.co...8m67tgYKJ48647H

http://t3.gstatic.co...Wx43GuWo4nPiqzQ

[TEWR]

hussey 92 wrote...

Tallis was only a character in a web series.  But the idea of Allers being in the entire ME3 game is definitly worse then Tallis being in one DLC. 

No Tallis was a character Bioware specifically created for the purposes of the DLC. They had a myriad of available options for Felicia Day to pick from -- what type of Qunari is Tallis -- and she chose the Elven one we see.

Tallis was never "only" a character in a web series.

Bioware handled the writing of Tallis for the DLC. Felicia Day handled the writing of Tallis for Redemption. They were released at the same time to coincide with one another, IIRC. Redemption's beginning episode was, at any rate.

Redemption was kinda meh -- Nyree and Josmael were pretty good -- and I think that both should've been pushed back to give the DLC a better anti-Qunari ending.

[LobselVith8]

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

thats1evildude wrote...

She's a female Qunari who fights. That sums up the "lore-murdering" arguments, since Sten went on and on about how women don't fight in DAO. Never mind that she's not a solider, but an assassin; apparently the qunari, who stress utility above all else, should be incapable of seeing the advantages of employing converts to the Qun as spies. It's not like they should be able to blend into a crowd.

First, Sten's argument about women fighting was about women whose sole purpose in life is to fight. Gaider has said many, many months before DAII was released that Sten -- and by extension, all Qunari -- would view the Grey Wardens as an army. So a woman being part of the Grey Wardens would mean that she is trying to be a part of an army, whose sole purpose in life is to fight the Darkspawn.

Sten does have conversations with Wynne, Morrigan, and Leliana about their participation in the group as fighters, so I can see why some people would take issue with Tallis and what Sten said about women being fighters. The conversation between Leliana and Sten addresses his Qunari view:

Sten: Why are you here?

Leliana: What do you mean?

Sten: Women are priests, artisans, farmers or shopkeepers. None of them have any place in fighting.

Leliana: I have no idea how to answer this...

Sten: It is not done. There is no more to it.

Leliana: Do you mean your people have no female mages or warriors?

Sten: Of course not. Why would our women wish to be men?

Leliana: What are you talking about? They don't wish to be men.

Sten: They shouldn't. That can only lead to frustration.

Leliana: Sten...no, never mind. Let's drop this.

As for "lore murdering," given how many changes/rectons have transpired within Dragon Age II, I don't see why Tallis would stand out. Leliana is alive even if she was killed; the Magi boon is turned down despite what's said at the royal ceremony and the lack of an independent Circle of Orzammar if this particular boon is chosen; it seems to be implied that the Dalish are killed at the Hinterlands despite what can be read from the Epilogue slides for the Hinterlands boon; Justice has met Anders even if he was killed at the Dragonborn Wastes and Anders was never recruited; Oghren is alive in Amaranthine even if he was killed during Origins. I have no doubt that the same will be true for Dragon Age III.

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

Redemption was kinda meh -- Nyree and Josmael were pretty good -- and I think that both should've been pushed back to give the DLC a better anti-Qunari ending.

Considering the backlash against the lack of significant choice in Dragon Age II, this would have been the perfect opportunity to allow Hawke to obtain the list and use it to help take down Qunari spies in Thedas. I don't see why the devs had to railroad Hawke for this DLC in the first place.

[TEWR]

LobselVith8 wrote...

Sten does have conversations with Wynne, Morrigan, and Leliana about their participation in the group as fighters, so I can see why some people would take issue with Tallis and what Sten said about women being fighters. The conversation between Leliana and Sten addresses his Qunari view:

Ben-Hassrath are priests though .

Priests who fight, but not priests that fight constantly as a warrior. Sten also states that if they were in control of Redcliffe, every Qunari would fight tooth and nail against the walking corpses. Men, women, and even children.

Fighting occasionally for a specific purpose doesn't hold the same meaning as fighting constantly as a job in the Antaam.

Remember that Sten considers the Grey Wardens part of an army -- since their job is to fight Darkspawn. I'm assuming Sten feels that Wynne, Leliana, and Morrigan are trying to be part of the army that fights Darkspawn, thus making them "males" in their roles.

They're Qunari. They're never very clear cut on anything. With them, confusion is well in line with who they are. It's part and parcel.

Confusion and Qunari go together like pie and Sandal.

LobselVith8 wrote...

Justice has met Anders even if he was killed at the Dragonborn Wastes and Anders was never recruited

Doesn't the epilogue slide state that it's not known what happened to Justice even though the Warden fought him? Fighting a sundered Spirit of the Fade who says in banter to Velanna or Nathaniel -- can't remember which -- that he could leave the body if he wished to doesn't seem to mean that he will "die" if you fight him. His "body" may collapse, but that doesn't mean you killed the soul inhabiting it. The soul itself left the body before it died.

As for Anders, yea it is odd how he apparently was recruited into the Amaranthine Wardens. Gaider says that he was recruited by other Wardens, but he also states that he was in Amaranthine when he met Justice and probably also states in banter with Merrill for an US DE that he knew Oghren -- and I'm willing to bet knew Sigrun for Legacy.

It's not completely unfeasible to make it work, but the way it's presented doesn't do much to clear it up.

"When I was in Amaranthine to board a ship to Kirkwall, I met a Spirit of Justice. I had been on a few missions with other Wardens native to Amaranthine's outpost a few times prior, so I knew some of the folks there...."

...and continue on from there. Stuff like that would've worked.

LobselVith8 wrote...

the Magi boon is turned down despite what's said at the royal ceremony and the lack of an independent Circle of Orzammar if this particular boon is chosen

To be fair though, per the lore the Circles were always under Chantry jurisdiction. Alistair proclaiming the Circles free with that going easily would've broken the lore, considering he didn't have the authority to make such a decision. He would have to seek the approval of Chantry higher-ups.

And they'd be the Grand Cleric of Denerim -- if not of all Ferelden -- and the Divine, I would think. And at the time, Justinia V wasn't the Divine.

Having him fight to have it happen though both adheres to the lore and provides conflict.

I'm content with it, myself.

Modifié par The Ethereal Writer Redux, 30 juin 2012 - 10:20 .

[LobselVith8]

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

LobselVith8 wrote...

Sten does have conversations with Wynne, Morrigan, and Leliana about their participation in the group as fighters, so I can see why some people would take issue with Tallis and what Sten said about women being fighters. The conversation between Leliana and Sten addresses his Qunari view

Ben-Hassrath are priests though .

True, but Sten seems surprised at the idea of a woman fighting at all (based on his dialogue with Leliana, Wynne, and Morrigan about the subject) because he views it as something only men do.

In fact, Sten's dialogue with Leliana mentions women being priests, but he still says: "Women are priests, artisians, farmers or shopkeepers. None of them have any place in fighting." The idea of a female Qunari fighting as part of her occupation simply seems to be a change from what was originally intended; I'm not saying it's good or bad, simply that it appears to be a shift.

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

Priests who fight, but not priests that fight constantly as a warrior. Sten also states that if they were in control of Redcliffe, every Qunari would fight tooth and nail against the walking corpses. Men, women, and even children.

Fighting occasionally for a specific purpose doesn't hold the same meaning as fighting constantly as a job in the Antaam.

Remember that Sten considers the Grey Wardens part of an army -- since their job is to fight Darkspawn. I'm assuming Sten feels that Wynne, Leliana, and Morrigan are trying to be part of the army that fights Darkspawn, thus making them "males" in their roles.

Except Sten acknowledges Wynne as a mage, Leliana as a bard, and Morrigan as a mage. He doesn't consider any of them trying to be Grey Wardens from his dialogue. He calls Wynne "mage" in conversations with her, and asks Morrigan if she is trying to "control" The Warden (if she is romancing him) with her magic.

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

They're Qunari. They're never very clear cut on anything. With them, confusion is well in line with who they are. It's part and parcel.

Confusion and Qunari go together like pie and Sandal.

I thought Sandal preferred salamandars? And I honestly think you give more thought to this than the writers did.

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

LobselVith8 wrote...

Justice has met Anders even if he was killed at the Dragonborn Wastes and Anders was never recruited

Doesn't the epilogue slide state that it's not known what happened to Justice even though the Warden fought him? Fighting a sundered Spirit of the Fade who says in banter to Velanna or Nathaniel -- can't remember which -- that he could leave the body if he wished to doesn't seem to mean that he will "die" if you fight him. His "body" may collapse, but that doesn't mean you killed the soul inhabiting it. The soul itself left the body before it died.

If Justice didn't need a body to travel the mortal plane, why did he bond with Anders? And why would Anders even trust Justice if he was a wandering Spirit of Justice with no mortal body? It doesn't seem like the writers gave this possible story route for Anders and Justice in Awakening much thought when they devised Dragon Age II.

Given that Anders assumes that Justice will return to the Fade if Anders is killed, I'm not so sure Justice would simply travel the mortal plane.

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

As for Anders, yea it is odd how he apparently was recruited into the Amaranthine Wardens. Gaider says that he was recruited by other Wardens, but he also states that he was in Amaranthine when he met Justice and probably also states in banter with Merrill for an US DE that he knew Oghren -- and I'm willing to bet knew Sigrun for Legacy.

It's not completely unfeasible to make it work, but the way it's presented doesn't do much to clear it up.

"When I was in Amaranthine to board a ship to Kirkwall, I met a Spirit of Justice. I had been on a few missions with other Wardens native to Amaranthine's outpost a few times prior, so I knew some of the folks there...."

...and continue on from there. Stuff like that would've worked.

Again, I think you gave this more thought than they did.

It's as much of a plothole as Anders' short story (aside from being a cannibal who is immune to weapons), where the templars forced the Wardens to accept a templar into their ranks. That really makes no sense to me. Given that I doubt templars would care more about Anders than the infamous Dalish mage Velanna, or especially the mage protagonist who asked for the mages of the Circle of Ferelden to be emancipated from the Chantry and the Order of Templars - and then proceeded to become the most powerful mage in Andrastian society - I don't see why they would focus on one mage who consistently ran away. Given Rylock's attempt to murder Anders and the Hero of Ferelden via Warden-Commander, I don't see how the templars could coerce this to happen.

And for a mage protagonist (like my Surana Warden), I can imagine he would say exactly the same thing the Chantry did about the Magi boon: No.

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

LobselVith8 wrote...

the Magi boon is turned down despite what's said at the royal ceremony and the lack of an independent Circle of Orzammar if this particular boon is chosen

To be fair though, per the lore the Circles were always under Chantry jurisdiction. Alistair proclaiming the Circles free with that going easily would've broken the lore, considering he didn't have the authority to make such a decision. He would have to seek the approval of Chantry higher-ups.

Except in the US ending, the King or Queen orders Knight-Commander Greagoir to hand over the new Circle Tower to the mages, and Greagoir concedes that he will do so. The independent Circle of Orzammar isn't formed. First Enchanter Irving regards the Magi boon as a given. It honestly doesn't seem like it was originally intended for the Chantry to say no to the Magi boon based on these scenes.

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

And they'd be the Grand Cleric of Denerim -- if not of all Ferelden -- and the Divine, I would think. And at the time, Justinia V wasn't the Divine.

Having him fight to have it happen though both adheres to the lore and provides conflict.

I'm content with it, myself.

I can see why it was done, and I suppose it doesn't really matter now that a continential revolution has taken place between mages and templars.

[PizzaThe Hutt]

She could be down-right irritating at times but saying that I hated her would go a bit far, she did have some positive features, they were just hard to see under the obvious attention-whoring of hers.

[SirGladiator]

I generally liked Tallis, and hope she is back in DA3, but perhpas without all the Qunari stuff. She could just be a regular Elf, since the Qunari are generally speaking the bad guys (I know some people like them anyway) I'd really rather her leave the Qunari behind, or at least have the option to talk her into leaving them behind, she'd be better as just an awesome elf. But certainily she made the DLC pretty awesome, and I would've loved to have been able to take her character along for the rest of the game, so I'm definitely in favor of her being an actual teammate in DA3.

[PizzaThe Hutt]

SirGladiator wrote...

I generally liked Tallis, and hope she is back in DA3, but perhpas without all the Qunari stuff. She could just be a regular Elf, since the Qunari are generally speaking the bad guys (I know some people like them anyway) I'd really rather her leave the Qunari behind, or at least have the option to talk her into leaving them behind, she'd be better as just an awesome elf. But certainily she made the DLC pretty awesome, and I would've loved to have been able to take her character along for the rest of the game, so I'm definitely in favor of her being an actual teammate in DA3.

The DLC and Redemption seemed to hint that Tallis is considering leaving the Qun to become Tal-vashoth so that may be an interesting change for the elf.  Though I'm not really sure how the timeline between the two work out.  All-inall she doesn't really seem content in her role since she keeps screwing it up...  I could imagine her doing well as a companion rogue or at least a semi-companion.

[Carmen_Willow]

Seriously dislike her personality - yes. Her character is a caracature of the rogueish rogue, Earl Flynn's Robin Hood on steriods with a little tree-hugger conscience thrown in to make sure we don't see her as a complete self-centered, self-aggrandtizing blowhard.

Didn't like her in the DLC, didn't like the little online series and the way she treated the male templar as though he were an idiot child. Hope she doesn't return, or if she does, she grows up a little and loses the attitude.

[AbsoluteApril]

Think I already posted about my thoughts on Tallis. I don't mind her too much but that 'got your nose' really was a *headdesk* moment. Didn't fit with my Hawkes or their relationship with her (none of them flirted with her).

LobselVith8 wrote...

In fact, Sten's dialogue with Leliana mentions women being priests, but he still says: "Women are priests, artisians, farmers or shopkeepers. None of them have any place in fighting." The idea of a female Qunari fighting as part of her occupation simply seems to be a change from what was originally intended; I'm not saying it's good or bad, simply that it appears to be a shift.

Tallis is Ben-Hassrath who's duty is to protect the Qun which may or may not require subtrefuge and fighting from time to time but that is not her primary duty (fighting). I do see how it can be a bit of a stretch based on all the anti-women-fighting comments from Sten but I think it can be made to work within the lore. Perhaps you are correct though and it was something they decided to stretch/change in order to take the story where they wanted it to go. 

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

Confusion and Qunari go together like pie and Sandal.

lol

LobselVith8 wrote...

If Justice didn't need a body to travel the mortal plane, why did he bond with Anders? And why would Anders even trust Justice if he was a wandering Spirit of Justice with no mortal body? It doesn't seem like the writers gave this possible story route for Anders and Justice in Awakening much thought when they devised Dragon Age II.

I don't believe he needed the body however I think he *wanted* the body which was the start of Justice's coruption into Vengence. he made various comments in awakenings that led me to believe he was being 'swayed' into seeing the benefits of being mortal (and thus becoming a demon himself)

Justice: You speak of demons. I am not a demon.
Anders: Aren't demons simply spirits with unique and sparkling personalities?
Justice: They have been perverted by their desires.
**
Anders: You said that demons were spirits perverted by their desires.
Justice: I have no such desires.
Anders: You must have some desires..
**
then later Justice shows desires
"This...this substance...sings to me. Do you hear it? I did not know something so beautiful could exist."
"I never thought the world of mortals would be so beautiful."

plus Justice also can 'read' the people he takes control of:
Justice: Would such a thing be permitted? Would it not be considered... abominable?
Nathaniel: If they're dead, it's not as if they need the body, Justice.
Justice: But I can still feel the man who once lived. I know his body, his... It is not just a body.
(possibly another desire)

Velanna: I know less about this than you. How securely is your spirit bound to this body? Can you leave it?
Justice: I could, if I chose to.
Velanna: Do you want to leave it?
Justice: I... do not know anymore.
**
Velanna: It seems you actually like this world.
Justice: I do. I have had experiences I cannot even begin to explain.

as to why would Anders trust him and allow him to enter? There's probably some great theories in the Anders thread. The way I see it..
Nathaniel: What if you found a living body to possess?
Justice: Even if I knew how, I would not possess the living. Such is an act for demons.
Nathaniel: What if the person were willing?
Justice: Why would a mortal ever allow such a thing?
Nathaniel: For life. For love. Perhaps together, you can do what they cannot do alone. If you gave instead of taking, I would consider you no demon.
Justice: It is...something to consider. Thank you, Nathaniel.
**
Anders thought he would have a stronger chance of freeing the mages tied with the power of Justice whom he believed to be wanting the same thing - Justice "You have seen oppression and are now free. You must act to free those who remain oppressed"

just some thoughts. I cannot know what really goes on in the minds of the writers.

sorry this was so long

Modifié par AbsoluteApril, 11 juillet 2012 - 12:03 .