167 réponses à ce sujet

[naledgeborn]

What the title says. In the state that Thedas is in as of 9:40 Dragon what will need to be done to succesfully pushback the impending Qunari invasion?

[Jedi Master of Orion]

Patience and attrition would be my guess. That was what made the biggest difference in halting their advance that last time around. Although, tragically it was the Chantry atrocities that actually forced the Llomerryn Accords in the end. I guess the humans of Thedas would need to prove to the Qunari that trying to bring the Qun to Thedas by force is not worth the trouble, and to them the loss of their soldiers is probably not the issue.

Modifié par Jedi Master of Orion, 15 octobre 2011 - 04:45 .

[ev76]

I think it will take the mages and Templars to put their differences aside...it will be very difficult to beat the qunari until then. playing dragon age 2 and it's dlc's it seems that the Qun is being set up to overtake thedas in a major way. Everything that is going on in thedas is making itself ripe for a qunari invasion and take over.
I feel that the last couple of sentences the sarebaas said in sheperding wolves before he killed himself are becoming a reality for thedas. Something to the effect that all paths lead to the Qun. That in itself is being shown with the mages rebelling, the Templars disbanding, the qunari infiltration cell surviving in mota. Just seems like thedas path is headed the way of the Qun.
Even if the Mage/Templar conflicts are resolved you still have the x factors: the architect, Cory, flemeth, and ogb. Where will they side? Our next protagonist and friends better have a strong will, at least to really cause some change or thedas will fall to the Qun.

[Foolsfolly]

Well...

I think mages would be their biggest defense against Qunari. Qunari have numbers (but so do humans) and they advanced technologies seen as gas, gunpowder, cannon and the like. To counter that mages would be needed.

...and Thedas is kind of wiping out their mages which were never trained for battle in the first place.

So with that out of the way... I think it's time to give the dwarves some of the Tranquil and tell them to start making new weapons technology. Those lyrium sand bombs should be just the beginning. Because right now the Qunari are far more advanced, fanatically loyal, and united.

When they hit Thedas... Thedas will be stunned and fractured. If the Qunari hit hard and fast enough Thedas will fall. They're not united and if Kirkwall and Ferelden are any indication they're not particularly strong militarily.

I think the Qunari will roll over much of Thedas.

[Anvos]

naledgeborn wrote...

What the title says. In the state that Thedas is in as of 9:40 Dragon what will need to be done to succesfully pushback the impending Qunari invasion?

For the Andrastian chantry to stop painting Tevintar as the evil boogey man who steals your children in the night to let demons gnaw on their flesh and bones. 

Also the possibility that the qunari didn't actually invent gunpowder and instead merely found it in a secret government lab on Par Vollen (would explain why in 300 years of constant war they haven't made the leap to hand held firearms).

[Ausstig]

Perhaps a deal with 'a darkspawn' to unleash a blight on Par vol, or a massive blood ritual to sink it into the ground.

As it stands, men are weak and dived, the dwarves and elves even more so. What they need is one to unite them, one who can command the respect of Men, Elves ad Dwarves, Mage and Templar alike, what the world needs is a campion.




It needs........

The Gray Warden!!!

On that point, maybe the Wardens could switch from just darkspawn to a force to fight off threats to thades as a whole, if nothing else it would give them something to do in between blights. 

Modifié par Ausstig, 15 octobre 2011 - 07:57 .

[Gervaise]

To defeat the Qunari you need to win hearts and minds of those people they most appeal to - the oppressed, in particular the alienage elves but also the peasant classes generally in places like Orlais. If the the current system prevents social mobility and keeps them down in the gutter, then to their mind they lose nothing in submitting to the Qun and in fact their lives may actually improve. For example, justice is applied equally to all, not just one rule for one section of the community and the rest can go s**** themselves. There are 10,000 elves in the Val Rouyaux alienage, living in an area the size of Denerim Market. Even allowing for the fact that some are too young or too old to fight, that gives a huge potential force within Orlais' capital city alone. (The Qunari are not the only ones to see this potential - my Hawke saw this way back, particularly after seeing so many elves on the side of the Qunari in Kirkwall).

The saving grace for Thedas in the past was the Circle of Magi. The mages have nothing to gain in aiding the Qunari - rather the reverse. It was the Magi who made the difference against the Qunari last time but for some reason did not use this to gain improved "privilages" for the Circle, or may be they just got them for themselves and not for the mages generally. Fenris thought Tevinter was behind the Resolutionists. Could it be that it was actually Qunari agents who encouraged their agenda, pretending to be from Tevinter? Fenris also claimed that the Qunari were biding their time and that when they decided to take over, they would be able to. Now the Circles have been disbanded and mages fragmented around Thedas, it may have presented the opportunity the Qunari were waiting for (I note that when I suggested on an earlier post that violent action by mages might open the way to the Qunari, it was suggested that my arguments were stupid and one shouldn't hold back over a vague possibility. Seems I'm not so stupid after all).

The dwarves may also be a factor, particularly if Bhelen is in power as he was opening them up to the outside and giving greater rights the the Castless, which again shows foresight as it would be this group that might be most suseptible to Qunari infiltration. The fact that Dworkin had to go continually on the run to keep away from Qunari assassins, suggests that dwarf ingenuity could help in the fight. If you let Anders live, ironically this could be a blessing as he does have knowledge of at least one explosive recipe, probably gained from Dworkin during their time together. One wonders how Justice would view the conflict considering how mages are treated by the Qun. Our experience with that sarabas certainly gave Anders pause for thought.

Finally there are the Dalish, who would also not wish to see the Qun in control, unless the Qun agreed to leave them alone. It might be useful to do some research on how they were treated the last time the Qunari invaded and how they responded to the threat, to get some idea of where their sympathies would lie.

What I would really like to know is what Celene is up to? Twice now there have been negotiations going on with the Qunari, both foiled by outside elements. The first involved giving something back that would seem to be preventing the Qunari from acting, the second about receiving something of value that would aid against them. Reading between the lines, it would seem she is trying to encourage the invasion of Tevinter whilst simultaneously strengthening her own defensive position and possibly even be poised to attack the Qunari whilst they are otherwise engaged. Any other suggestions?

[blothulfur]

You cannot conquer the inevitable. You are weak, stupid and wasteful, we shall consign your evil slave kingdoms to oblivion and bring justice to the fattened hogs who wallow in the corruption and tyranny of Thedas.

[Myusha]

^ Potentially a Woman Warrior single handily killed your Arishok. Your move.

[blothulfur]

Hahahahaha only the bas would believe the lies of a fat dwarven braggart.

[Augustei]

naledgeborn wrote...

What the title says. In the state that Thedas is in as of 9:40 Dragon what will need to be done to succesfully pushback the impending Qunari invasion?

Grant the dalish lands, treat them as equals and make it clear to them the Qunari will destroy their culture as well - gaining the dalish as allies.
Exporting and purchasing of the new dwarven explosives to the nations of thedas.
Mages - effective to counter Qunari technological advantage and generally very effective in combat anyway
Most important of all though - Unification, The nations of thedas will need to work togeather

[Myusha]

XD. Fat Dwarven Braggart. Maybe being under the Qun wouldn't be so bad if that comedy's kept up.

[blothulfur]

Thank you, one tries.

[Wulfram]

It's difficult to answer because the Qunari function on arbitrary plot advantages handed to them by the writers rather than anything resembling believable logic.

[Myusha]

 Arbitary? ARBITARY? ARBITARY?

...What does Arbitary mean? *googles*

Ah yes. It does feel that way a bit. If Tallis was a man, then I bet MOTA's plot would've been a bit easier to swallow.
Although I enjoyed it either way.

Modifié par Myusha, 15 octobre 2011 - 11:52 .

[TobiTobsen]

blothulfur wrote...

Thank you, one tries.

I'm actually pretty impressed with your constant being in character in the DA forums. Kudos to you.

[KenKenpachi]

Nothing, your efforts are as futile as your meaningless lives. Embrace the Qun. or death.

[naledgeborn]

blothulfur wrote...

You cannot conquer the inevitable. You are weak, stupid and wasteful, we shall consign your evil slave kingdoms to oblivion and bring justice to the fattened hogs who wallow in the corruption and tyranny of Thedas.

Like fat dathrassi you feed and feed. You do not look up! You do not see that the grass is bare! All you leave in your wake is misery. You are blind, but I will make you see!!

/Arishok

[naledgeborn]

Gervaise wrote...

To defeat the Qunari you need to win hearts and minds of those people they most appeal to - the oppressed, in particular the alienage elves but also the peasant classes generally in places like Orlais. If the the current system prevents social mobility and keeps them down in the gutter, then to their mind they lose nothing in submitting to the Qun and in fact their lives may actually improve. For example, justice is applied equally to all, not just one rule for one section of the community and the rest can go s**** themselves. There are 10,000 elves in the Val Rouyaux alienage, living in an area the size of Denerim Market. Even allowing for the fact that some are too young or too old to fight, that gives a huge potential force within Orlais' capital city alone. (The Qunari are not the only ones to see this potential - my Hawke saw this way back, particularly after seeing so many elves on the side of the Qunari in Kirkwall).

The saving grace for Thedas in the past was the Circle of Magi. The mages have nothing to gain in aiding the Qunari - rather the reverse. It was the Magi who made the difference against the Qunari last time but for some reason did not use this to gain improved "privilages" for the Circle, or may be they just got them for themselves and not for the mages generally. Fenris thought Tevinter was behind the Resolutionists. Could it be that it was actually Qunari agents who encouraged their agenda, pretending to be from Tevinter? Fenris also claimed that the Qunari were biding their time and that when they decided to take over, they would be able to. Now the Circles have been disbanded and mages fragmented around Thedas, it may have presented the opportunity the Qunari were waiting for (I note that when I suggested on an earlier post that violent action by mages might open the way to the Qunari, it was suggested that my arguments were stupid and one shouldn't hold back over a vague possibility. Seems I'm not so stupid after all).

The dwarves may also be a factor, particularly if Bhelen is in power as he was opening them up to the outside and giving greater rights the the Castless, which again shows foresight as it would be this group that might be most suseptible to Qunari infiltration. The fact that Dworkin had to go continually on the run to keep away from Qunari assassins, suggests that dwarf ingenuity could help in the fight. If you let Anders live, ironically this could be a blessing as he does have knowledge of at least one explosive recipe, probably gained from Dworkin during their time together. One wonders how Justice would view the conflict considering how mages are treated by the Qun. Our experience with that sarabas certainly gave Anders pause for thought.

Finally there are the Dalish, who would also not wish to see the Qun in control, unless the Qun agreed to leave them alone. It might be useful to do some research on how they were treated the last time the Qunari invaded and how they responded to the threat, to get some idea of where their sympathies would lie.

What I would really like to know is what Celene is up to? Twice now there have been negotiations going on with the Qunari, both foiled by outside elements. The first involved giving something back that would seem to be preventing the Qunari from acting, the second about receiving something of value that would aid against them. Reading between the lines, it would seem she is trying to encourage the invasion of Tevinter whilst simultaneously strengthening her own defensive position and possibly even be poised to attack the Qunari whilst they are otherwise engaged. Any other suggestions?

Interesting assesments and very sound actually. I think Celene might in fact be the magnificent bastard instigating the whole situation. Little does she know that she's prodding a hornet's nest. Especially now that it's revealed that the Qunari resort to espionage/sabotage. And judging by the list in Tallis' possesion they're very good at it.

I think it will come down to magic. Something they refuse to acknowledge or at least fully understand. It's their biggest weakness. Instead of practically and activley researching the ins and outs of magic like Tevinter or the Circle of Magi they leash their mages. Big mistake. The day all mages of Thedas are emancipated is the day that the Qunari return to their shores. Not saying it will happen, but the potential is there. 

[TheCreeper]

The Qunari invasion is going to suck. If the Qunari time it right they are going to hit the rest of Thedas when almost every other country is in the middle of a civil and religious wars and the qunari got spies in pretty much every country. On the other hand a qunari invasion would probably do a lot to end the mage-templar war since both sides view the qun as pretty much their worst nightmare.

[CrimsonZephyr]

I actually think the Qunari's downfall will begin from within. They hold their people in such an iron grip, eventually someone will start questioning the benevolence of the philosophy. Imagine if a high-ranking Qunari defected with highly-sensitive intelligence. It will be a combination of tactical intelligence, research, magic, coalitions, and eventual internal collapse that will bring down the Qunari.They will all add up to bring the Qunari down.

[Sith Grey Warden]

Foolsfolly wrote...

Well...

I think mages would be their biggest defense against Qunari. Qunari have numbers (but so do humans) and they advanced technologies seen as gas, gunpowder, cannon and the like. To counter that mages would be needed.

It doesn't help that the Qunari are now starting to unleash their mages.

Ausstig wrote...

On that point, maybe the Wardens could
switch from just darkspawn to a force to fight off threats to thades as a
whole, if nothing else it would give them something to do in between
blights. 

This would be a very wise move for them,
given the fact that most of the time they are seen as freeloaders. Also,
since the Fifth Blight was so weak, it is likely that outside Ferelden
they won't be needed for a few more centuries. It may become a political necessity to switch to fighting all threats to Thedas.

Anvos wrote...

Also the possibility that the qunari didn't
actually invent gunpowder and instead merely found it in a secret
government lab on Par Vollen (would explain why in 300 years of constant
war they haven't made the leap to hand held firearms).

This is a very curious fact. Perhaps blothulfur would care to explain why there is such a lack of ingenuity from the Qunari in recent years?

I suspect that wherever the Qunari came from, they were the underdogs in technological advancement due to their rigid social structure. Eventually, they were forced to leave so they came to Par Vollen. Thedas just happened to be a few centuries behind.

Also, given the fact that the dwarves are now developing their own explosives, and are far more inventive than anyone else, perhaps they will surpass the Qunari in technology? This could be the key to eventual victory over the Qunari.

Modifié par Sith Grey Warden, 16 octobre 2011 - 02:41 .

[OMTING52601]

Wow, I can safely say I never contemplated defeating the Qunari. I mean, I could care less what religion the people of Thedas do or don't follow. I'm all about jumping on top of injustice and righting wrongs, so of course if the Qunari are invading and forcing conversion, whoever my PC is will be all about stopping them, but jeez, tough question.

I agree both black and white chantry would need to get together because the mages would be the biggest benefit for Thedas. Also the dwarves could be powerful allies. I also agree that having some Qunari on the inside working with the protagonist toward peace or at least avoiding all out war is imperative.

It's fun to ponder, even though we likely won't hear smack about number three for another year at least. If Bioware actually makes 3 a more relevant companion to Origins.

[Jedi Master of Orion]

I think the Qunari's lack advancement is just once again a necessary trope for a Fantasy story. Trying to determine why the Chantry or the dwarves or the qunari don't have advanced technology after centuries from an in universe is unnecessary and futile. Otherwise you're going to find that for some reason every society in the world has some sort of technological regression.

Anyway as far as the war with the Qunari goes, I actually think the Qunari have perhaps an even greater challenge facing them because their goal is much grander. They would actually need to conquer all of the human nations and convert enough of the population to be loyal. If the last war proved anything, it was that (very unsurprisingly I think) their reach was much greater than their grasp. That and perhaps they underestimated the resolve of the humans to eventually regain conquered territory. Prior to the New Exalted Marches, the conflict had already reached a bloody stalemate. So the Qunari probably would have only been able to rule over Rivain and Antiva even had they not been called.

If I were a Qunari strategist, my first suggestion would probably be to focus on subjugating the Tevinter Imperium first.

Modifié par Jedi Master of Orion, 16 octobre 2011 - 05:20 .

[OMTING52601]

I know Fenris says he thinks the Qunari could totally take Tevinter if they wanted to... but that argument doesn't seem to hold water. Seem to.

They've been in a stalemate with the Imperium for a long time. I don't think p*ssing off the rest of Thedas, again, is going to prove out in a win this go around, if that is indeed the case.