167 réponses à ce sujet

[Gervaise]

Just because Tallis' sense of self importance would make her think her mentor was a high figure, this doesn't automatically follow. I assume Ben-Hassrath consists of more than a handful of operatives. It is hardly likely that their top people actually are seen out in the field so to speak. The sort of person who would have access to a complete list of spies would be based at central HQ. He seemed to be wearing some sort of insignia that might indicate higher rank but we don't really know enough about the Qunari to say for certain.
So Salit could be a genuine high rank defector - in which case it would be interesting to know why someone, who was probably groomed for their role from birth, turned against everything he previously believed.
However, he could also have been acting as a double agent. This would account for why the Ben'Hassrath apparently denounced him as Tal Vashoth, yet did not trouble to send anyone after him, or alternatively made sure that the person they "officially" sent was not successful. I found his words to Talis intreiging - this was not your path. It sounded like a repremand to me but was certainly strange if he is meant to have left the Qun.
Mind you, I think it safe to say that you can believe nothing that Tallis told you. Without actually seeing the scroll, it could have said anything and I still think that even if Hawke did stay with her after the caves, telling Hawke the actual details of what the scroll contained was incredibly stupid, unless Tallis is also intending leaving the Qun. Even without that information Hawke could probably make an educated guess at what the list contained but to actually confirm it makes no sense at all.

[TheCreeper]

Well if both Hawke and the warden are around when it happens I imagine they will be great rallying figures for human/elf/dwarf resistance against the qunari, Also if someone managed to get finally get their hands on the recipe for black powder that would be very helpful (Judging by what anders did with some of the ingredients of blackpowder, the stuff does very powerful things when combined with magic)

[KJandrew]

Gervaise - Qunari aren't given a specific position when they are a child, they're just given a profession. Sten and Arishok weren't given those jobs as children. They became soldiers and rose up in the franks by being compentant and skill full

[Jedi Master of Orion]

Anvos wrote...

KJandrew wrote...

Same way as before: Brutally murder every Rivani you see until the Qunari get freaked out and agree to a peace

No you leave their seers and other mages alive.  On a side note I really wonder how the populace can be considered mostly followers of the qun yet are as devote to their seers.

I wondered the same a wihle back. As I understand it, the Devs have said that the Rivaini version of the Qun is not quite the same as the mainstream Qunari version.

Modifié par Jedi Master of Orion, 16 octobre 2011 - 08:06 .

[Gervaise]

I didn't mean that the Arishok was given that role as a child but that he would have been identified as a soldier and then worked his way up through the ranks, so by the time he got to the position he was in, you would imagine that it would take a monumental loss of faith for him to betray the Qun. Likewise Salit. He would have worked up through the ranks of the Ben'Hassrath until he reached the sort of level that would give him access to such sensitive information and by that time you would have thought that any doubts would have either been spotted by his peers, or he would have overcome them himself. Spies do defect to the other side but for a top man to do so requires some major crisis of faith and loyalty to his fellow people.
I have also checked the reference in History of Kirkwall 3 concerning sarabas and it quite clearly states that they used leashed sarabas to inflict major sorcerous damage on the city. That was also in the age of Storms so not a recent thing. There is no evidence that sarabas are not being leashed in game. The sarabas we escort from the city has to submit to the control rod as evidence he is still of the Qun, then submits to being executed by the soldiers or kills himself if you end up having to fight them. Leashing of a sarabas involves that strange collar contraption around their necks and a rod with magnetic/electric properties held by the non-mage keeper (can't remember the Qun name), which has a sort of taiser gun effect if they get out of hand. This means the keeper doesn't always have to stand immediately alongside the Sarabas to keep control.
So I repeat, where is the evidence that the sarabas are now being treated more leniently in game?

[Sith Grey Warden]

Gervaise wrote...
So I repeat, where is the evidence that the sarabas are now being treated more leniently in game?

It's not that they're being treated more leniently, it's that they are allowed to become more powerful. It used to be that they were pathetic by comparison to Chantry mages, but in DA2, they are clearly more powerful.

On how to beat the Qunari, there is one thing they can never have: heroes. In Thedas, figures like the Warden have risen up and changed the course of history and overcome forces of historical inevitability. A hero would be able to turn the tide of a war with the Qunari and keep Thedas safe. We all know how Hawke was able to do so on a smaller scale in Kirkwall.

[TheCreeper]

Jedi Master of Orion wrote...

Anvos wrote...

KJandrew wrote...

Same way as before: Brutally murder every Rivani you see until the Qunari get freaked out and agree to a peace

No you leave their seers and other mages alive.  On a side note I really wonder how the populace can be considered mostly followers of the qun yet are as devote to their seers.

I wondered the same a wihle back. As I understand it, the Devs have said that the Rivaini version of the Qun is not quite the same as the mainstream Qunari version.

I really want to see the Rivaini Qun now.

[blothulfur]

You are correct Gervaise, no Saarebas are freed of the leash until they choose to end their suffering and tell their Arvaarad that they wish to once more be free. If anything the evil the people have witnessed in the war against the beast empire has renewed the vigilance of the Arvaarad, blood sacrifices, demon summoning and all manner of perversions have served to remind the Qunari that the Saarebas unleashed are danger, deceit and doom in the end.

There are heroes under the Qun, Qunoran Vehl.

[TheCreeper]

Problem is, Qunoran Vehl aren't declared until after the person is dead, while Hawke and (probably) The Warden are very much alive. Qunoran Vehl maybe cause for celebration but they don't provide much to rally around, unlike hawke and the warden.

[DPSSOC]

Another possible tactic; send Fereldan after them. Fereldans have brushed off far worse than the Qunari. They bested the Imperium at it's height, drove out an entrenched Orlesian occupation, defeated a Blight in under a year with no outside help, and a Fereldan went from a refugee to being the second most powerful person in Kirkwall (if not the Free Marches) in just 4 years. Just tell the Imperium to step aside and let Fereldan handle it.

[blothulfur]

Yes they do. Great deeds and accomplishments are recognised under the Qun and though it would take the heroes death to proclaim him as Qunoran Vehl he still stands as a powerful figurehead while alive.

Yes we greatly fear a man who runs away from defending his homeland when he is needed and then proceeds to have a fat dwarven braggart concoct lies about his accomplishments.

Modifié par blothulfur, 17 octobre 2011 - 12:34 .

[TheCreeper]

I was unaware getting yourself pointless killed in a conflict you quite literally could have had no major part in is considered more brave than protecting your family from darkspawn by the qunari. You may not greatly fear hawke but in a lot of playthroughs he gets the respect of one of the most important (if not the most important) figures in your military.

[DPSSOC]

blothulfur wrote...
Yes we greatly fear a man who runs away from defending his homeland when he is needed and then proceeds to have a fat dwarven braggart concoct lies about his accomplishments.

How about a man/woman who killed a god how do you feel about that one?

[blothulfur]

Yes a runner always conjures up so many compelling reasons, but will always be the same coward at heart leaving the brave man to die in his place. Proven when he began his murderous sprees across Kirkwall.

I will give the fat dwarf his due, you bas lick up his lies easily. The Arishok respecting an idle murderer, most amusing.

The dwarves have always been respected by the Qunari for their struggle against the magisters spawn, the warden would seem to have been an honourable individual as he selflessly gave his life for the good of all.

Modifié par blothulfur, 17 octobre 2011 - 12:53 .

[naledgeborn]

I'm going to have to go with DPSSOC on this. Fereldans are badass by default. If you make a list of all the heroes of Thedas past and present a good chunk of the list would consist of Fereldan "barbarians".

Not to mention that all it took was a measly little girl with a silver tongue from Fereldan to overthrow the very empire the Qunari are deadlocked with.

Modifié par naledgeborn, 17 octobre 2011 - 12:55 .

[TheCreeper]

The Qunari need to be defeated if only because their disrespect of Varric simply can not be allowed to stand.

[TEWR]

considering a Mage Hawke wasn't ever at Ostagar, he can't really be called a coward. And since a Mage Hawke earns the respect of the Arishok and can be called Basalit-an, Basvaarad and a mage that can join the Ben-Hassrath (Mary Kirby confirmed this happens. I'd guess they're called Basrath like the weapon Basrath-Kata?), Hawke should be respected by the Qunari a great deal.

[naledgeborn]

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

considering a Mage Hawke wasn't ever at Ostagar, he can't really be called a coward. And since a Mage Hawke earns the respect of the Arishok and can be called Basalit-an, Basvaarad and a mage that can join the Ben-Hassrath (Mary Kirby confirmed this happens. I'd guess they're called Basrath like the weapon Basrath-Kata?), Hawke should be respected by the Qunari a great deal.

This.

[blothulfur]

And yet the cowardly murderer is and was not.

[TheCreeper]

You know, you have zero evidence to back up the claim that Qunari don't respect Hawke.

[DPSSOC]

blothulfur wrote...

And yet the cowardly murderer is and was not.

I must ask why you keep calling Hawke a murderer.  In most instances Hawke is attacked and then he kills people.  In fact I can remember only 2 instances in the entire game where Hawke can just murder someone in cold blood.

[blothulfur]

I do not need them, actions speak louder than words. Fat nobles who conspire with thieves to hide the book of Koslun from us while not even attempting to change the corrupt city they live in or help those unduly oppressed are obvioualy not respected by the Qunari. Anyone who disagrees lies.

We saw the butchery the murderer left in his wake, Varric may parrot his lies all he wishes but Hawke was a killer and a thief.

Modifié par blothulfur, 17 octobre 2011 - 01:15 .

[TEWR]

And what if what was going through Hawke's mind after rescuing the family was "I should get my family out of here and over to Kirkwall where we have a noble status so that I can lead troops back into Ferelden to help fight the Blight"? What then? Is he a coward still because he wants to still fight the Blight in a different way?

One soldier doesn't always make the difference in a battle.

[blothulfur]

Armies are composed of one soldier, no matter his reasons the coward ran from his homeland when he was needed. What would have occured if the Warden had run back to Orzammar.

[TheCreeper]

What would have changed if a non mage hawke stayed and fought? Nothing short term ( and by short term I mean all of the fifth blight) for ferelden,absolutely nothing.

Modifié par TheCreeper, 17 octobre 2011 - 01:21 .