167 réponses à ce sujet

[CrimsonZephyr]

jamesp81 wrote...

Speaking more tactically to this problem....

One has to choose his battlegrounds wisely. Qunari have an advantage in that they have more sophisticated weapons, especially artillery. You have to be willing to surrender territory where those weapons are easily used, mainly open ground.

Don't try to fight them on the plains. Make the hornheads slog their way through the Anderfels against entrenched defenders. Break their armies against that fortress, and then attack when they're weak.

And use blood magic and demon summoning. Yeah, I know how bad that is. Still, if you can release a few hundred abominations on Par Vollen, that's likely to take a lot of the wind out of their sails right then. When Par Vollen has been reduced to a smoking crater, you can send an army of templars and mages in later to clean up the mess.

They could try sacrificing convicted blood mages to demons, bind them with magic, put them on empty ships, and send them towards Par Vollen.

Also, use mages to make the really big spells, like the blizzards and the electrical storms. Imagine how surprised a Qunari army would be when they have to slog through a devastating winter in what they expected to be a tropical land.

[Jedi Master of Orion]

I don't know that mages have been able to completely change the weather of an entire region even if their power if combined. The closest thing I know of would be Andraste when she caused the Tevinter's crops to burn or other disasters to smite her enemies.

Modifié par Jedi Master of Orion, 18 octobre 2011 - 04:47 .

[CrimsonZephyr]

Jedi Master of Orion wrote...

I don't know that mages have been able to completely change the weather of an entire region even if their power if combined. The closest thing I know of would be Andraste when she caused the Tevinter's crops to burn or other disasters to smite her enemies.

If hundreds of mages did it at the same time? Probably.

[Jedi Master of Orion]

I doubt it. Mages casting cold themed spells have them dissipate in moments. Even if hundreds of them tried it at once the best I can imagining them doing was making a extensive layer of snow that melts within an hour or two, especially if they cast it in a tropical climate.

[Herr Uhl]

Jedi Master of Orion wrote...

I don't know that mages have been able to completely change the weather of an entire region even if their power if combined. The closest thing I know of would be Andraste when she caused the Tevinter's crops to burn or other disasters to smite her enemies.

According to the chant?

[Jedi Master of Orion]

Well it doesn't matter what you believe she was. My point was that she was an exceptional case.

[Herr Uhl]

Jedi Master of Orion wrote...

Well it doesn't matter what you believe she was. My point was that she was an exceptional case.

The burning of crops would more likely be rebels torching them.

I don't think that mages can change the climate though.

[Jedi Master of Orion]

The Chant said she called upon the Maker to perform miracles. Whether you think it was her or the Maker or because she was a mage or an Old God Baby or Flemeth or whatever, it was said that she seemed to demonstrate unique abilities.

And yeah, altering the weather of an entire region is more complicated that simply blasting someone with a freeze ray.

[CrimsonZephyr]

Hanz54321 wrote...

I love this idea of sending abominations to attack the Qunari.

Because . . . you know . . . abominations are very compliant when given orders. It's not like they have their own seperate agendas and could care less about defending Thedas.

Edit: demons too.  I'm sure once freed from the Fade they'll just fall right into line like good soldiers.

Well, that's why they need to be sent as close to Par Vollen as possible. When it's Qunari that are dying, you know you've done the job right. If their cities burn, who cares?

[Vit246]

Farm wolves. Implant rage demons to create armies of werewolves. Then send them to Par Vollen.

Modifié par Vit246, 18 octobre 2011 - 11:31 .

[CrimsonZephyr]

Vit246 wrote...

Farm wolves. Implant rage demons to create armies of werewolves. Then send them to Par Vollen.

Obtain darkspawn corpses. Find Qunari water supply. Inundate the latter with rotting darkspawn matter. Watch as plague spreads in Qunandar.

[blothulfur]

Aaahhh demons, abominations, possessed beasts and the walking dead, it is good that the beast empire of Tevinter has not thought of sending such fearsome banes against us for we would surely crumble at the mere sight of such horrors. Are you even trying?

And of course our dreadnoughts armed with fearsome cannon that can sunder the horizon will simply let your little boats past with no challenge when the primary responsibility of the Qun is to protect the people from all dangers. Pathetic.

[sphinxess]

Gunpowder is a great advantage - but so is Cavalry which Orlais has. Really don't see why they weren't used effectively during the first invasion.

[Big I]

Am I the only one disturbed that people are suggesting the mass slaughter of Qunari civilians using darkspawn, demons, monsters and biological warfare?

[CrimsonZephyr]

LookingGlass93 wrote...

Am I the only one disturbed that people are suggesting the mass slaughter of Qunari civilians using darkspawn, demons, monsters and biological warfare?

A war with the Qunari is a war of survival. To win is to live. To lose is to die or be assimilated.

To win, one must break them. Utterly.

[Big I]

CrimsonZephyr wrote...

LookingGlass93 wrote...

Am I the only one disturbed that people are suggesting the mass slaughter of Qunari civilians using darkspawn, demons, monsters and biological warfare?

A war with the Qunari is a war of survival. To win is to live. To lose is to die or be assimilated.

To win, one must break them. Utterly.

1) The current peace with the Qunari (the Llomeryn Accords) were signed and have lasted 300 years despite the Qunari being "unbroken." Peace with them is possible.


2) Turning a populated nation into a wasteland filled with demons and darkspawn is shortsighted; they will come for the rest of Thedas if they succeed in destroying Par Vollen and Seheron.


3) If the price of victory is genocide, then the price is too high.

Modifié par LookingGlass93, 19 octobre 2011 - 07:55 .

[Gervaise]

Acutally horses are not very good against gunpowder, particularly cannons - that is why the Charge of the Light Brigade was heroic but stupid (and suicidal). Once cannons were introduced on any scale, cavalry was far more effective being used in flanking attacks and raids. However, a cavalry made up of wyverns might be more successful since they are large and can do short bursts of leaping and charging. They would also hold up well against Kossith warrors.

However, that is talking about conventional warfare. What some posters seem to be suggesting is simply trying to obliterate the population on Qunadar - not a good idea because once you cross the line and do that, there is a thing called retaliation and the Qunari have access to a rather lethal biological weapon that was demonstrated in low town. In fact that is why I assume the armies of Thedas had such trouble in the past - because the more lethal the warriors you send against them, the greater the backfiring effect against yourself. So rather than killing the civilian population, concentrate on finding a similar type of weapon that only works against Kossith - destroy their army, which primarily does consist of Kossith, and your problem is effectively solved because the rest of the population isn't programmed to fight and conquer.

While working on the formula, concentrate efforts on counter measures in the alienages, making elves aware of exactly what it would mean to them as families if the Qun were to take over - back in Origins they said that life might have been hard and humans might not treat them with respect but they still had each other, families (and by this I mean blood relations) stick together. Just tell the elven mother than not just her mage child will be taken away from her, but every baby snatched at birth, and those Ban Hasarath spies won't stand a chance if they start to spout their rhetoric. "The female of the species is more deadly than the male" (Kipling).

[CrimsonZephyr]

LookingGlass93 wrote...

CrimsonZephyr wrote...

LookingGlass93 wrote...

Am I the only one disturbed that people are suggesting the mass slaughter of Qunari civilians using darkspawn, demons, monsters and biological warfare?

A war with the Qunari is a war of survival. To win is to live. To lose is to die or be assimilated.

To win, one must break them. Utterly.

1) The current peace with the Qunari (the Llomeryn Accords) were signed and have lasted 300 years despite the Qunari being "unbroken." Peace with them is possible.


2) Turning a populated nation into a wasteland filled with demons and darkspawn is shortsighted; they will come for the rest of Thedas if they succeed in destroying Par Vollen and Seheron.


3) If the price of victory is genocide, then the price is too high.

1. A tense peace. True peace lies in their annihilation.

2. The darkspawn and the demons can wait. If Par Vollen and Seheron are appropriately isolated, one need not worry. It isn't as though either of them are intelligent to build a navy.

3. No price is too high for survival.

[Big I]

CrimsonZephyr wrote...
1. A tense peace. True peace lies in their annihilation.

2. The darkspawn and the demons can wait. If Par Vollen and Seheron are appropriately isolated, one need not worry. It isn't as though either of them are intelligent to build a navy.

3. No price is too high for survival.

There's no such thing as "true peace." Any two nations that are independent could, in the future, go to war with each other. It's like saying that the only way for Ferelden to be safe is to exterminate the population of Orlais.


If the darkspawn take the Qunari lands they will kill the ecosystem using the Blight, like parts of the Anderfels. Nothing will ever grow there again. If demons take it they'll sunder the Veil, making it unihabitable. Even if the Qunari (or anyone) were deserving of genocide you're talking about ruining a part of Thedas and turning it into the stronghold of monsters, forever.


And it's not about survival in the same way that the Blight is. Qunari vs non-Qunari is primarily a battle of rulership and belief, not whether non-darkspawn get to stay alive. Keeping the Archon of Tevinter or the Empress of Orlais in charge is not worth wiping out innocent civilian populations.

[CrimsonZephyr]

LookingGlass93 wrote...

CrimsonZephyr wrote...
1. A tense peace. True peace lies in their annihilation.

2. The darkspawn and the demons can wait. If Par Vollen and Seheron are appropriately isolated, one need not worry. It isn't as though either of them are intelligent to build a navy.

3. No price is too high for survival.

There's no such thing as "true peace." Any two nations that are independent could, in the future, go to war with each other. It's like saying that the only way for Ferelden to be safe is to exterminate the population of Orlais.


If the darkspawn take the Qunari lands they will kill the ecosystem using the Blight, like parts of the Anderfels. Nothing will ever grow there again. If demons take it they'll sunder the Veil, making it unihabitable. Even if the Qunari (or anyone) were deserving of genocide you're talking about ruining a part of Thedas and turning it into the stronghold of monsters, forever.


And it's not about survival in the same way that the Blight is. Qunari vs non-Qunari is primarily a battle of rulership and belief, not whether non-darkspawn get to stay alive. Keeping the Archon of Tevinter or the Empress of Orlais in charge is not worth wiping out innocent civilian populations.

Considering how Orlais is looking to reclaim Ferelden, killing every Orlesian isn't a bad idea.

And how does losing Par Vollen and Seheron affect Thedas? They are isolated islands filled with enemies to a man. As long as the effects don't spill into Tevinter, it's not much to worry about.

[jamesp81]

CrimsonZephyr wrote...

jamesp81 wrote...

Speaking more tactically to this problem....

One has to choose his battlegrounds wisely. Qunari have an advantage in that they have more sophisticated weapons, especially artillery. You have to be willing to surrender territory where those weapons are easily used, mainly open ground.

Don't try to fight them on the plains. Make the hornheads slog their way through the Anderfels against entrenched defenders. Break their armies against that fortress, and then attack when they're weak.

And use blood magic and demon summoning. Yeah, I know how bad that is. Still, if you can release a few hundred abominations on Par Vollen, that's likely to take a lot of the wind out of their sails right then. When Par Vollen has been reduced to a smoking crater, you can send an army of templars and mages in later to clean up the mess.

They could try sacrificing convicted blood mages to demons, bind them with magic, put them on empty ships, and send them towards Par Vollen.

Also, use mages to make the really big spells, like the blizzards and the electrical storms. Imagine how surprised a Qunari army would be when they have to slog through a devastating winter in what they expected to be a tropical land.

I just thought of something.

Qunari rely on primitive but effective blackpowder weaponry, mostly artillery.  These early weapons were notoriously unreliable in inclement weather.

A mage that can throw fireballs is useful.  But one that could conjure a short downpour might be even more valuable.

[jamesp81]

LookingGlass93 wrote...

CrimsonZephyr wrote...

LookingGlass93 wrote...

Am I the only one disturbed that people are suggesting the mass slaughter of Qunari civilians using darkspawn, demons, monsters and biological warfare?

A war with the Qunari is a war of survival. To win is to live. To lose is to die or be assimilated.

To win, one must break them. Utterly.

1) The current peace with the Qunari (the Llomeryn Accords) were signed and have lasted 300 years despite the Qunari being "unbroken." Peace with them is possible.


2) Turning a populated nation into a wasteland filled with demons and darkspawn is shortsighted; they will come for the rest of Thedas if they succeed in destroying Par Vollen and Seheron.


3) If the price of victory is genocide, then the price is too high.

1.  The Qunari signed that treaty with every intent of breaking it.  Sten even says so.  They have never dealt in good faith.  They are imperialists of the worst sort.

2.  I consider this a last ditch option, only to be used if victory by conventional means becomes impossible.  It's Thedas's nuclear deterrent.  Only to be used in emergencies, but there is in fact a time that it becomes proper to use it.

3.  See #2.

Modifié par jamesp81, 19 octobre 2011 - 12:33 .

[Xilizhra]

Something that Anders said once: "If the options are Tranquility or death, we have no choice but to make every confrontation a life-or-death struggle." Given the whole Saarebas thing with the qunari, it seems just as apt for them as the templars. And I suspect people worry less about killing qunari civilians because the Qun isn't supposed to have individual people, but make them all minute body parts.

[GodWood]

Xilizhra wrote...
Something that Anders said once: "If the options are Tranquility or death, we have no choice but to make every confrontation a life-or-death struggle." Given the whole Saarebas thing with the qunari, it seems just as apt for them as the templars. And I suspect people worry less about killing qunari civilians because the Qun isn't supposed to have individual people, but make them all minute body parts.

Curious.
Do you wish to overthrow the Chantry/Templars for the same reason I would in their position?
That is I'd believe me and my kin to be superior to the non-magical folk and thus we must overthrow our oppressive lessers and seize power.

Or is it something else?