I was just pondering how the information Hawke has gained from Legacy and MoA might alter their actions and then wondered why it doesn't affect those of other people. The idea is meant to be that they occur before the Last Straw, even though you can play them as post campaign events. The thing is that you learn from Legacy that there might be something that has been reacting badly with mages all this time, so there is an explanation why they keep going crazy beyond the usual "that's what mages do". Then you learn from MoA that the Qunari threat did not go away with the end of Act 2 and that something is afoot involving Orlais and the Qun and that there are sleeper cells waiting to be brought into action by the Qun at the appropriate time. If the Qunari take over Thedas it will be a very bad look out for mages but without the goodwill of the mages, the rest of the population are going to be struggling to resist them. This seems a hell of a bargaining chip for the mage movement - so why alienate the population with a bomb? Is Anders/Justice really that stupid? Or was it actually meant to show - hey we don't just have magic, we have bombs too. Seriously though, the bomb plot makes even less sense after the DLC than it did before. Did the writers really have no idea how they were going to develop DLC for the game when they included the bomb plot in it?
The other thing I was wondering, was with such a great location as that Castle in the mountains, after the last Blight, why did the Grey Wardens give it up? It wasn't as if they didn't need a good base, particularly in view of the secret in the mountains just to the east of it. However, if they wanted to relinquish it, why didn't the Chantry grab it as a home for the Circle of Magi? Miles from any major settlements and with local guard wyverns to discourage escape but nevertheless much better vibes than the Gallows and a beautiful outlook. Instead it gets given a toady from Orlais.
I have decided to alter the direction of my Hawke on leaving Kirkwall. When Varric says they headed for the hills, it was those particular hills Hawke had in mind. Good defensive position, able to withstand a lengthy seige and apparently Wyverns are trainable. Can you imagine them as heavy cavalry - like tanks with teeth and vemon. Again the Wardens missed a trick there and the stupid Orlesians just kill them for sport!
Wouldn't the events of the DLCs have altered events in act 3?
Débuté par
Gervaise
, oct. 15 2011 04:16
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#2
Posté 15 octobre 2011 - 05:14
Nilfalasiel
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Even without the DLC, the Enigma of Kirkwall notes found during the main campaign indicate that something is VERY wrong with Kirkwall itself. Does Hawke ever use that information? No. Would anybody actually lend credence to it, since it really is just a collection of notes? I sincerely doubt it. Orsino might believe it, but he wouldn't be able to do anything on his own. Elthina's reaction would be "trust in the Maker", as it invariably is, and Meredith would simply see it as yet another reason to crack down on the mages and invoke the Right of Annulment. Especially under the influence of her evil lyrium sword.
So even if Legacy may suggest that Corypheus' presence didn't help, it really doesn't change the situation in any fundamental way. Meredith is NOT going to bother relocating an entire Circle of Magi outside the city: it serves her purposes best to keep things escalating just as they do.
As for the events of MotA, there is absolutely no timeframe on when the qunari might make a move. I mean, even the Arishok says "one day we'll be back" before he dies. When is "one day"? In a year? In ten years? I don't see how this could have affected Anders' (or rather Justice's) decision, beyond coming to the conclusion that "well, we're all screwed anyway" (which, incidentally, is what he tells Orsino). The bomb is not a well thought out decision: it's an act of defiance and desperation influenced by an unstable spirit who has a tenuous grasp of human affairs at best and absolutely NO long-term vision. All he wants is to break the stalemate, and then come what may: he fully expects to die, and if you spare him, he expects to become a fugitive rather than a leader. Clearly, he wasn't thinking ahead. If he had been, there might not have been a bomb, because you are right, it does alienate people from the mage cause, people who may otherwise have been quite willing to support mages against Meredith's madness.
Of course, this is on top of the fact that Hawke is left with zero proof after MotA. So it doesn't matter if she/he knows about the qunari's plans: the information can't be used as a bargaining chip.
So even if Legacy may suggest that Corypheus' presence didn't help, it really doesn't change the situation in any fundamental way. Meredith is NOT going to bother relocating an entire Circle of Magi outside the city: it serves her purposes best to keep things escalating just as they do.
As for the events of MotA, there is absolutely no timeframe on when the qunari might make a move. I mean, even the Arishok says "one day we'll be back" before he dies. When is "one day"? In a year? In ten years? I don't see how this could have affected Anders' (or rather Justice's) decision, beyond coming to the conclusion that "well, we're all screwed anyway" (which, incidentally, is what he tells Orsino). The bomb is not a well thought out decision: it's an act of defiance and desperation influenced by an unstable spirit who has a tenuous grasp of human affairs at best and absolutely NO long-term vision. All he wants is to break the stalemate, and then come what may: he fully expects to die, and if you spare him, he expects to become a fugitive rather than a leader. Clearly, he wasn't thinking ahead. If he had been, there might not have been a bomb, because you are right, it does alienate people from the mage cause, people who may otherwise have been quite willing to support mages against Meredith's madness.
Of course, this is on top of the fact that Hawke is left with zero proof after MotA. So it doesn't matter if she/he knows about the qunari's plans: the information can't be used as a bargaining chip.
Modifié par Nilfalasiel, 15 octobre 2011 - 08:11 .
#3
Posté 15 octobre 2011 - 05:36
ev76
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Well the mota events there is a codex ( thoughts on Tallis) that says hawke tried to warn the higher ups but they dismissed the qunari threat. I like the idea that the castle might be where hawke is hiding although, I think there might be a dlc down the road where we must face merril and her fixed illuvian. Think hawke and the warden might be on the other side.
#4
Posté 15 octobre 2011 - 08:45
TEWR
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Gervaise wrote...
I was just pondering how the information Hawke has gained from Legacy and MoA might alter their actions and then wondered why it doesn't affect those of other people. The idea is meant to be that they occur before the Last Straw, even though you can play them as post campaign events. The thing is that you learn from Legacy that there might be something that has been reacting badly with mages all this time, so there is an explanation why they keep going crazy beyond the usual "that's what mages do". Then you learn from MoA that the Qunari threat did not go away with the end of Act 2 and that something is afoot involving Orlais and the Qun and that there are sleeper cells waiting to be brought into action by the Qun at the appropriate time. If the Qunari take over Thedas it will be a very bad look out for mages but without the goodwill of the mages, the rest of the population are going to be struggling to resist them. This seems a hell of a bargaining chip for the mage movement - so why alienate the population with a bomb? Is Anders/Justice really that stupid? Or was it actually meant to show - hey we don't just have magic, we have bombs too. Seriously though, the bomb plot makes even less sense after the DLC than it did before. Did the writers really have no idea how they were going to develop DLC for the game when they included the bomb plot in it?
The other thing I was wondering, was with such a great location as that Castle in the mountains, after the last Blight, why did the Grey Wardens give it up? It wasn't as if they didn't need a good base, particularly in view of the secret in the mountains just to the east of it. However, if they wanted to relinquish it, why didn't the Chantry grab it as a home for the Circle of Magi? Miles from any major settlements and with local guard wyverns to discourage escape but nevertheless much better vibes than the Gallows and a beautiful outlook. Instead it gets given a toady from Orlais.
I have decided to alter the direction of my Hawke on leaving Kirkwall. When Varric says they headed for the hills, it was those particular hills Hawke had in mind. Good defensive position, able to withstand a lengthy seige and apparently Wyverns are trainable. Can you imagine them as heavy cavalry - like tanks with teeth and vemon. Again the Wardens missed a trick there and the stupid Orlesians just kill them for sport!
There's no way Corypheus could've done anything to Kirkwall. By the own lore given in the DLC, he's only able to call to those who bear the taint. So he couldn't have had anything to do with Kirkwall's Magisters performing those rituals since they weren't the original Magisters. That one codex is only one person's speculations, and trying to explain the thin Veil that's only given through codex with another codex is imo stupid.
Not only that, I prefer the Magisters having done it without being controlled by some supernatural force. It adds something to the story instead of relying on the supernatural forces in the world to explain everything.
As for the bomb, I think that just goes to show that a mage need not be the only person who can devastate a city. The ingredients for the bomb were magical in nature and mixed together (and a mage isn't the only one who can do that) decimated the Chantry and who knows how much of Hightown.
That a mage was the one who set the bomb is irrelevant. It may not help relations with mages, but now the people know that mages aren't the only people who can destroy a city.
Regarding the Chateau, I believe the answer is that it was never really their Chateau. It was just a base of operations they used and while they could've kept it, they probably didn't need to. We don't know how many Warden bases are in the Free Marches. Remember that Wardens at that time valued neutrality. If another Warden outpost popped up that was also strategic in a military fashion, this might weaken their support.
All they really used it for was a way to protect the people there.
Still, I also like to think that Tobias Hawke gained ownership of the Chateau. That's assuming Duke Prosper's son isn't using it to get revenge on Hawke.
Modifié par The Ethereal Writer Redux, 15 octobre 2011 - 08:50 .
