893 réponses à ce sujet

[tmp7704]

SkittlesKat96 wrote...

Is this real?

Why would Isabela and Varric get involved with Alistair? Regardless of whether or not he is king...it just seems out of place.

Varric has known Isabela literally for years. And Isabela potentially knows Alistair as well. And by "knows", i mean slept with him and was quite impressed.

So, they aren't exactly strangers. In any case i'd imagine the explanation just how exactly they get involved is going to be part of the comic itself.

[jlb524]

Isabela recognizes King Alistair even if she didn't sleep with him in Origins. Perhaps they all had some drinks at the Pearl?

[David Gaider]

For those concerned about how the comic affects the "canon" of their playthrough: it doesn't. If we feel the need to refer to the events of the comic in the course of a game (and that's if), it would depend on what the particulars of that import were. If Alistair was alive and the other details matched up, then perhaps it happened. Otherwise it didn't, or it happened slightly differently. That's the luxury that a game allows.

As for why I chose to use already-existing characters, it's because lots of people like them-- including myself. We want to see more of them, and in this case the story happens to pertain specifically to them. They're not incidental to it. It's that simple.

If someone doesn't like the idea, nobody's forcing them to read it. That should go without saying. I'm gratified that so many people are excited, however, and I'm looking forward to showing them what we have cooked up.

[KennethAFTopp]

David Gaider wrote...

For those concerned about how the comic affects the "canon" of their playthrough: it doesn't. If we feel the need to refer to the events of the comic in the course of a game (and that's if), it would depend on what the particulars of that import were. If Alistair was alive and the other details matched up, then perhaps it happened. Otherwise it didn't, or it happened slightly differently. That's the luxury that a game allows.

As for why I chose to use already-existing characters, it's because lots of people like them-- including myself. We want to see more of them, and in this case the story happens to pertain specifically to them. They're not incidental to it. It's that simple.

If someone doesn't like the idea, nobody's forcing them to read it. That should go without saying. I'm gratified that so many people are excited, however, and I'm looking forward to showing them what we have cooked up.

I prefer a default Bioware Canon, that's just me, my characters and their choices are just in a different universe. I read an essay that talked about Alistair being the true protagonist of DA:O and I kinda liked that idea. I dunno.

[David Gaider]

KennethAFTopp wrote...
I prefer a default Bioware Canon, that's just me, my characters and their choices are just in a different universe. I read an essay that talked about Alistair being the true protagonist of DA:O and I kinda liked that idea. I dunno.

There always has to be a "default" world state, in that we have to choose what happens when a player doesn't import a saved game (or imports one that is incomplete). That is, in fact, the majority of players. I would not call that canon, however, as it doesn't impose itself upon those who do import a saved game-- and that's what canon is, a set version of past events that ignores anything the player did previously (as with BG2, for instance).

[RagingCyclone]

David Gaider wrote...

For those concerned about how the comic affects the "canon" of their playthrough: it doesn't. If we feel the need to refer to the events of the comic in the course of a game (and that's if), it would depend on what the particulars of that import were. If Alistair was alive and the other details matched up, then perhaps it happened. Otherwise it didn't, or it happened slightly differently. That's the luxury that a game allows.

As for why I chose to use already-existing characters, it's because lots of people like them-- including myself. We want to see more of them, and in this case the story happens to pertain specifically to them. They're not incidental to it. It's that simple.

If someone doesn't like the idea, nobody's forcing them to read it. That should go without saying. I'm gratified that so many people are excited, however, and I'm looking forward to showing them what we have cooked up.

I don't think the fear of "canon" comes from comic to game, but from game to comic. Already using that Alistair is king has some people...some not posting in this thread that I have talked to, that has them concerned.  And although it's correct nobody is forcing people to read the comic...the use of these characters will still be out there.  And as much as you may tell us to ignore the man behind the curtain...you being the lead writer...it's pretty hard not to ignore the man behind the curtain. Your standing in the DA universe is much like Lucas in the Star Wars universe. What you write, whether intended or not, will be accepted by the majority to be "canon" in DA. My concern is not so much the comic itself, but is the franchise setting itself to fall into the same traps that the SW franchise suffers from?

[syllogi]

RagingCyclone wrote...

I don't think the fear of "canon" comes from comic to game, but from game to comic. Already using that Alistair is king has some people...some not posting in this thread that I have talked to, that has them concerned.  And although it's correct nobody is forcing people to read the comic...the use of these characters will still be out there.  And as much as you may tell us to ignore the man behind the curtain...you being the lead writer...it's pretty hard not to ignore the man behind the curtain. Your standing in the DA universe is much like Lucas in the Star Wars universe. What you write, whether intended or not, will be accepted by the majority to be "canon" in DA. My concern is not so much the comic itself, but is the franchise setting itself to fall into the same traps that the SW franchise suffers from?

Star Wars has an extended universe which is not strictly canon, according to George Lucas.  This is a bit different, in that movies tell a static story, while the stories told in video games are by their nature more fluid.

I personally like reading the books Mr. Gaider has written, and will pick up the comic.  It has always been inevitable that some portions of the events of DA:O and DA2 would be considered canon...the Warden always ends the Blight, the Mage-Templar war always is started...Alistair being king isn't that far a stretch of the imagination.

I do wish the Warden would be "canonized" as a female dwarf commoner, though.  That would be pretty frikkin sweet.

[David Gaider]

RagingCyclone wrote...
I don't think the fear of "canon" comes from comic to game, but from game to comic. Already using that Alistair is king has some people...some not posting in this thread that I have talked to, that has them concerned.  And although it's correct nobody is forcing people to read the comic...the use of these characters will still be out there.  And as much as you may tell us to ignore the man behind the curtain...you being the lead writer...it's pretty hard not to ignore the man behind the curtain. Your standing in the DA universe is much like Lucas in the Star Wars universe. What you write, whether intended or not, will be accepted by the majority to be "canon" in DA. My concern is not so much the comic itself, but is the franchise setting itself to fall into the same traps that the SW franchise suffers from?

Sorry, but from my perspective this seems to be hand-wringing without much basis. The characters are already "out there"... everyone who played the game knows that Alistair can be king, or a drunk, or still a Grey Warden, or dead. The alternate universes are already in play, so to speak, so that particular Pandora's Box has already been opened. It's not closing back up anytime soon.

Insofar as what the majority of people consider to be "canon", that really has no effect on the individual player. Who cares if the majority of players consider Alistair to be alive and king if he's dead in your particular playthrough? Your game's story will continue to reflect your choices, when it can. Outside of the game, that's all but impossible short of us outright avoiding any and all places in the world where a player's game might have touched. We're not going to do that-- I'd avoid specifying any specific interpretation of a player character (so materials that dictate who a Warden or Hawke might have been are out of the question), but beyond that it's fair game.

If someone feels this is something a franchise can "suffer" from, then so be it. Opinions on that will no doubt abound. I look forward to seeing the reaction from fans when the comic actually comes out.

[macrocarl]

I'm really looking forward to this and also can't wait to read your book when it comes out David! Congrats!

[Brockololly]

David Gaider wrote...
There always has to be a "default" world state, in that we have to choose what happens when a player doesn't import a saved game (or imports one that is incomplete). That is, in fact, the majority of players. I would not call that canon, however, as it doesn't impose itself upon those who do import a saved game-- and that's what canon is, a set version of past events that ignores anything the player did previously (as with BG2, for instance).

Out of curiosity, do the comics/books/anime all go along with one set "default" version of the DA universe? Like in Asunder, is that the same version of Thedas which the comic takes place in? And so, does the comic/books/movies "default" world state match up with the one "default" world state import option from DA2 (Alistair as King, Human noble warden who did the Dark Ritual)?

Obviously I don't think you guys would go about getting super specific with Warden or Hawke PC details in the books/comics, but I'm curious how certain characters like Alistair are going to be portrayed regarding their past without referencing a PC like the Warden who can have a massive impact on how somebody like Alistair ends up where ever they might be. Or even somebody like Alistair meeting up with, say,  Morrigan again- given how the PC could be heavily involved there with either of those two, wouldn't that almost require setting a fixed Warden, even for the book/comic canon? Otherwise it would seem to be tip toeing around the Warden (Or Hawke) and seem odd, given both of their roles in affecting the companion characters potentially.

David Gaider wrote...
 We're not going to do that-- I'd avoid specifying any specific interpretation of a player character
(so materials that dictate who a Warden or Hawke might have been are
out of the question), but beyond that it's fair game.

I guess it would depend on the story being told, but wouldn't that kind of cheapen the PC by just avoiding them in the sort of alternate universe of the books/movies/comics? Like Alistair may be King, but is he married to a Queen Cousland who would presumably be an important person in his life? Or if Morrigan cam back into the fold, wouldn't a Warden that romanced her and had a kid with her and went into Eluvian Land be important in how her character was portrayed? I suppose it would come down to deciding what stories would be best suited to which medium- people or events heavily involved with the PC might best be suited to a game where you could react to that sort of thing, whereas the books/movies can add more to the overall lore of the world and be tied back into the game, changing the specifics based on the player's choices.

Modifié par Brockololly, 18 octobre 2011 - 03:38 .

[RagingCyclone]

@TeenZombie--when you say according to George Lucas regarding the SW universe, that is my point.  DG is the GL of the Dragon Age world. Which comes back to...

@David Gaider-- the point I am making is that you are the lead writer. What you write whether you intend or not will become gospel in the DA world. (for the record I made Alistair sole ruler...do not know where everyone is keying on him being dead).  It's like the short story you wrote for Fenris. (I am friends and talked to the person who is making the vid for that particular scene) There is a part in that story that seemed OOC for many of his fans. While I understand you have explained that to them, I think it shows a little of what could come of this. I am not opposed to this specific comic per se but the pattern that seems to be developing...using the same characters to explore the world of Thedas. Yes you may avoid mentioning any player's character, but can you honestly say that continuing to follow other venues (future books, comics, vids, tv shows, etc) using the same companions from the games would further the world of Thedas at large? Or would it further benefit the franchise using the fringe characters like perhaps Charade, Cullen, Erlina, Bevin, or any of the plethora of others that you can interact with in the games but are not companions that you have more "intimate' (get your mind out of the gutter:P) dealings with? These fringe characters are interesting in their own right, and where companions are pretty fleshed out in the games, these others I know would have interesting stories themselves but we only get a peek at in the games. I am just saying these would be more interesting characters to use in the other media than the companions.

[KennethAFTopp]

David Gaider wrote...

KennethAFTopp wrote...
I prefer a default Bioware Canon, that's just me, my characters and their choices are just in a different universe. I read an essay that talked about Alistair being the true protagonist of DA:O and I kinda liked that idea. I dunno.

There always has to be a "default" world state, in that we have to choose what happens when a player doesn't import a saved game (or imports one that is incomplete). That is, in fact, the majority of players. I would not call that canon, however, as it doesn't impose itself upon those who do import a saved game-- and that's what canon is, a set version of past events that ignores anything the player did previously (as with BG2, for instance).

even if you down the line had to set a specific set of choices I.E. Canon I guess, from the previous games to create a viable and better future Dragon Age game then that would also be alright with me.

[Noviere]

I love Varric and Alistair, and can't wait to see them paired up!

[David Gaider]

Brockololly wrote...
Out of curiosity, do the comics/books/anime all go along with one set "default" version of the DA universe? Like in Asunder, is that the same version of Thedas which the comic takes place in? And so, does the comic/books/movies "default" world state match up with the one "default" world state import option from DA2 (Alistair as King, Human noble warden who did the Dark Ritual)?

We haven't done enough of these sorts of projects for that to even be a consideration just yet. I don't think we've restricted ourselves to only using the "default" version of the setting, if that's what you're asking.

but I'm curious how certain characters like Alistair are going to be portrayed regarding their past without referencing a PC like the Warden who can have a massive impact on how somebody like Alistair ends up where ever they might be.

It depends on the situation. At some level I suppose I must mentally choose which Alistair I'm writing, but that's true for any time I wrote the character and needn't be explicitly stated. A lot of it is open for interpretation by the reader.

I guess it would depend on the story being told, but wouldn't that kind of cheapen the PC by just avoiding them in the sort of alternate universe of the books/movies/comics?

Stories outside of the game aren't about the PC. Seeing as your PC already has an entire game to themselves, I don't think it "cheapens" them to write stories where they aren't playing a role. Hawke and the Warden are special snowflakes, but they need not be the center of the universe.

Like Alistair may be King, but is he married to a Queen Cousland who would presumably be an important person in his life? Or if Morrigan cam back into the fold, wouldn't a Warden that romanced her and had a kid with her and went into Eluvian Land be important in how her character was portrayed?

See, you're deliberately imagining ways that it wouldn't work. Instead what you could do is try to imagine ways that it would. I'm not about to create a story which is going to run up against those walls-- that would be silly. Thankfully I don't need to do that.

[Maria13]

I for one welcome any additional narrative involving these three characters. As I have said before, Alistair is simply too rounded a character to confine to oblivion, he deserves further development from his creator... Isabella is and always was, seductive and intriguing, and Varric simply oozes charisma. Lets see a Varric romance as flagged up by Aimo.

I am also perfectly at home with the idea of AUs.

[RagingCyclone]

But see I would use someone like Sister Justine who is really already set up to become an Indiana Jones/Lara Croft type of character for exploring/expanding the lore. We only know she is a sister in the Denerim chantry and the curator. And she was very excited when the warden brings her the old documents from Haven, and she has a very good knowledge of ciphers. But we know very little else about her. Has she taken vows? Was she always a sister or did she come from a background like Leliana? Justine has so much potential to use in these other mediums. And because we know so little she is basically an open book. I could see the first re-introduction with a companion like Varric, but then afterwards being the central focus. She's just an example of the kind of characters that could be used that we have a glimpse of in the games, but the interaction with the warden, Hawke, or other future protagonists is small enough that player decision would not really apply to what the character does in other mediums. I hope that makes sense.

Modifié par RagingCyclone, 18 octobre 2011 - 05:23 .

[tuppence95]

I'm very excited to see a new Alistair story, especially one that might reveal some of the mystery of his mother. I'm hoping that's where the story will go. And I'd much rather see this particular story than one centered around a character we don't know.

[Morty Smith]

David Gaider wrote...
If someone doesn't like the idea, nobody's forcing them to read it.

And that was the crucial moment when Eric Someone glared over his shoulder at Francis Nobody.

[Ariella]

Sounds simple to me, if it doesn't fit, it's an AU, like the Ultimate Line for Marvel, or Smallville, or the Mirror Universe and the new movie in ST, or half of Fringe... Big deal. It's more story with characters that a lot of people and the writer himself enjoys. So sit back, relax and just enjoy it for the story, not worry how it have any effect on YOUR game.

[KennethAFTopp]

*This* I am interested in, besides that I feel there's a certain over representation of Dragon Age in other medias, such as the webcomic and horrible looking anime.

[Annarl]

Well bylines like this won't help the perception that the comic isn't canon

http://kotaku.com/58...gon-age-origins

It’s Canon: Alistair Became King in Dragon Age: Origins  by Kotaku. I posted the link because I'm not sure if I can post the article.

Modifié par omearaee, 19 octobre 2011 - 12:56 .

[Morroian]

omearaee wrote...

Well bylines like this won't help the perception that the comic isn't canon

http://kotaku.com/58...gon-age-origins

It’s Canon: Alistair Became King in Dragon Age: Origins  by Kotaku. I posted the link because I'm not sure if I can post the article.

If you read the tweet from Mike the article links to he says: " If that doesn't match your world consider it a "What If?""

Modifié par Morroian, 19 octobre 2011 - 01:30 .

[Annarl]

Morroian wrote...

omearaee wrote...

Well bylines like this won't help the perception that the comic isn't canon

http://kotaku.com/58...gon-age-origins

It’s Canon: Alistair Became King in Dragon Age: Origins  by Kotaku. I posted the link because I'm not sure if I can post the article.

If you read the tweet from Mike the article links to he says: " If that doesn't match your world consider it a "What If?""

True enough, but I meant the title of the article doesn't help.  Not everyone will read the linked tweets or even totally read the article. 

Personally, I don't care so long as it doesn't affect my DA world.  I would however like to learn about other characters in the world of Thedas if I had a choice.

Modifié par omearaee, 19 octobre 2011 - 01:39 .

[TheChris92]

Can't go wrong with Varric and Isabela. Looking forward to read it. =)