893 réponses à ce sujet

[Blacklash93]

Upsettingshorts wrote...

For example as far as I'm concerned?  I don't know The Illusive Man's past and I don't care to know.  Why?  I ignore the comic.  It's really easy to do.  Watch.

I envy you not knowing his backstory. It's terrible.

Modifié par Blacklash93, 16 octobre 2011 - 12:14 .

[TheJediSaint]

Looking at the picture, does anyone else see crowns on Alistair's trousers?

Modifié par TheJediSaint, 16 octobre 2011 - 12:02 .

[Marionetten]

Way too many canonical tie-ins completely dumping on the so called illusion of choice. It's as if BioWare has forgotten what put them on the map. It wasn't brilliant writing as much as their ability to seemingly put the pen into the hands of the players. Unfortunately that appears to be a thing of the past.

[Brockololly]

rak72 wrote...

Does this mean that they are setting up weather or not the Warden was a male or female too? I'm with Brock on all of this.

Well considering what they seemingly have done with Revan in The Old Republic...

I'm guessing this thread about Gaider's book gives the likely explanation behind how things are being handled in terms of canon/default world state and everything.

David Gaider wrote...

The nature of a novel being what it is, it has to establish its own  canon. Many elements will be similar to the game's (most of them,  actually), but beyond that a book just isn't going to be able to react  to your personal choices. That's self-evident, I'd hope.

...

The nature of a novel means it must establish its own canon, and the  novel's canon has no relation to the game's canon (such as it is). If  you wish, think of the novel as an alternate universe where things took a specific path with regards to Wynne or other events. How those events  would have played out in the world of your personal game might have been very different. I am not, however, telling that particular story.

If one expects a novel to follow their personal choices and change accordingly, then their expectations are out to lunch.
...

There is nothing happening in the novel that will directly tie  into a future game. They are tangentially related at best. In the case  of the novel, it takes a few events/characters that have variable  outcomes in the games and it chooses one-- establishing an internal  canon which is necessary simply by virtue of what it is. If you're  worried about this doing so extensively, don't be. I tend to avoid such  references unless required.

The alternative, as mentioned, would  be to avoid all such referneces and characters altogether. Which I  didn't want to do, and don't see a need for. This is a "might have been" as much as it is insight into events that followed DA2's timeline, and  part of the fun is using that timeline-- not avoiding it. It is not,  however, laying a foundation for things future games will draw directly  from.

Hope that's clear.

Modifié par Brockololly, 16 octobre 2011 - 12:04 .

[Herr Uhl]

Brockololly wrote...

rak72 wrote...

Does this mean that they are setting up weather or not the Warden was a male or female too? I'm with Brock on all of this.

Well considering what they seemingly have done with Revan in The Old Republic...

I thought Lucasarts decided that long ago, didn't they?

[Seagloom]

Brockololly wrote...

No, I get what you're saying. I'm just more curious/concerned with the likelihood of this sort of canon/default world state thing bleeding over into the games. I can ignore the comics/anime/books/happy meal toys just fine, but when stuff from those start getting back into the game or things in the game are being dictated a certain way to work better with the ancillary products, thats when I give up. 

With the lack of choice and how railroaded things are in DA2, it already feels that way where you're just playing an NPC and just going through the motions with the story firmly on rails, lessening the whole "forge your own destiny approach" and just playing an adventure game which can be easily tied into ancillary movies/books/whatever.

My apologies--I missed the mark. What I meant is bleeding back into the game will happen. It started that way with Maric and Loghain's novel development prior to DAO. I remain skeptical of any statements to the contrary until time validates this is truly not the approach they are taking. As you note, DA2 establishes a number of events as having occurred, no matter what. This comic is merely a more visible extension of that.

This is not unlike how WotC made certain demands on BioWare when they were developing the Baldur's Gate games. The difference here is BioWare gets to establish its own canon. Rather than WotC publishing two very different novels to supercede events in the BG titles, BioWare can weave their various products together in furtherance of a larger franchise. They seem more interested in that than straddling the thin line between strong narratives and freeform plot progression.

Modifié par Seagloom, 16 octobre 2011 - 12:14 .

[jlb524]

Whoa, it's like two of my fave Dragon Age characters...and Alistair.

[whykikyouwhy]

TheJediSaint wrote...

Looking at the picture, does anyone else see crowns on Alistair's trousers?

He's a king in his pants.

[Mr.House]

My main question is when this happens. If this happens before Hawke disappears then this will be the first non DA game matrial I woll not consider part of my canon.

[naledgeborn]

 Conflicted. I want to check for it because I like all three, but I don't want it destroying my head canon. Why couldn;t this be about ONE of them. 

[Quinnzel]

jlb524 wrote...

Whoa, it's like two of my fave Dragon Age characters...and Alistair.

I had the same thought!  I might have to buy this and then take a sharpie to every one of AlistBore's speech bubbles within the comic.

And I really wish they would expand the world without having to re-use known charecters, and thus possibly (most likely!) conflicting the players decisions.

[Zjarcal]

jlb524 wrote...

Whoa, it's like two of my fave Dragon Age characters...and Alistair.

:lol:

[Beerfish]

jlb524 wrote...

Whoa, it's like two of my fave Dragon Age characters...and Alistair.

I misread Alistair as Anders at 1st on the 1st page and had the same thought. 

[Complistic]

You've got to be kidding me.

[Brockololly]

Seagloom wrote...
My apologies--I missed the mark. What I meant is bleeding back into the game will happen. It started that way with Maric and Loghain's novel development prior to DAO. I remain skeptical of any statements to the contrary until time validates this is truly not the approach they are taking. As you note, DA2 establishes a number of events as having occurred, no matter what. This comic is merely a more visible extension of that.

I'm absolutely fine with how The Stolen Throne/ The Calling handled things since they established characters you had not seen before. So nothing was being rewritten and made the game characters more interesting since you had some backstory on them.

It just gets awkward and odd when something like the comic takes somebody like Alistair and props them up as the central character, when he might not even exist in many people's DA universe and he was one of the central characters of Origins. So how do they tie in whatever events or revelations happen in the comic back into a DA game where Alistair doesn't exist? It seems they're trying to have everything fit together like you said, but then they do something like this which just cannot work at all based on player driven choices in the previous game. It just makes for an odd mish mash potentially.

Modifié par Brockololly, 16 octobre 2011 - 12:27 .

[Willybot]

Upsettingshorts wrote...

Willybot wrote...

I guess Isabella didn't stick with my Hawke afterall. That's.....disappointing.

No, it's more like Isabela didn't stick with Hawke in David Gaider's game. 

That's how I look at these expanded-media things anyway. 

For example as far as I'm concerned?  I don't know The Illusive Man's past and I don't care to know.  Why?  I ignore the comic.  It's really easy to do.  Watch.

*sits in silence, looking somewhat focused*

See it's gone.

Needlessly-directed snark aside, my concern mirror's Brock's. My issue/fear isn't that *my* canon doesn't match the *real* canon, it's whether the *real* canon erases what little impact we have on later games (LI's, which faction we sided with, etc).

[Herr Uhl]

Brockololly wrote...

It just gets awkward and odd when something like the comic takes somebody like Alistair and props them up as the central character, when he might not even exist in many people's DA universe. So how do they tie in whatever events or revelations happen in the comic back into a DA game where Alistair doesn't exist?

The mentioned truth about dragons would likely not change depending on Alistair living or not.

[RagingCyclone]

Why does this not surprise me? DA2 already reworked the characters of Leliana, Anders, and Cullen...why not solidify a few more. (being sarcastic here)

I'm all for books and comics that EXPAND the world, but why use extablished characters to turn it on its ear? Using LucasArts as an example, Kyle Katarn was used as the main character for the Dark Forces/Jedi Knight series and rarely if ever used as a main character in the books/comics/etc until after the game series ended...or was mentioned in passing. Why use the characters of the games to expand the world of Thedas? I am sure there are thousands of other people (in the DA universe) that could be used to expand in this world. I have this gut reaction that the writers here *cough* Gaider *cough* lack the imagination to to come up with more? Now with the games...and choices available...the world instead of being expanded will become a convoluted mess. Where this franchise had promise as an expanding world...I just feel like leaving it behind since now the writers are determined to make my gaming experience more one of a spectator than a participator. With the dlc's I thought progress was being made...now...? *shrugs shoulders*

[Willybot]

RagingCyclone wrote...

 I have this gut reaction that the writers here *cough* Gaider *cough* lack the imagination to to come up with more? 

I don't know if I'd go that far. The truth of the matter is that it's easier to market "iconic" (oh that word!) characters in multi-medium tie-ins than to try to introduce new ones. Fewer resources have to be directed towards backstory/setup for the characters, etc. I agree with you on the impact on "fanon" though, unfortunate.

*EDIT: Typos.

Modifié par Willybot, 16 octobre 2011 - 12:36 .

[Blacklash93]

These characters are a big part of the Dragon Age franchise. Bioware is not going to stop developing them just because a few people have a different canon. It's good material.

Frankly, I see avoiding these characters for the sake of just a few people to be a bigger crime. Treating everyone's canon as sacred for every medium imaginable (books, comics, webseries, films) squanders the opportunity to expand on these characters when they're well worth pushing forward with.

[RagingCyclone]

Willybot wrote...

RagingCyclone wrote...

 I have this gut reaction that the writers here *cough* Gaider *cough* lack the imagination to to come up with more? 

I don't know if I'd go that far. The truth of the matter is that it's easier to market "iconic" (oh that word!) characters in multi-medium tie-ins that to try to introduce new ones. Fewer resources have to be directed towards backstory for these new characters, etc. I agree with you on the impact on "fanon" though, unfortunate.

Being sarcastic again here, but you would think that by now Dragon Age would be iconic enough? Like Star Wars, LotR, Dune, and some other franchises out there that cross several mediums. I actually will go that far to say it's a lack of imagination. It's relying on the tried and true characters they know to write about instead of "expanding" the world of Thedas. After this who is next? Fenris and Sebastian team up with Nathaniel to explore the Anderfels?

[Willybot]

RagingCyclone wrote...

 After this who is next? Fenris and Sebastian team up with Nathaniel to explore the Anderfels?

Not crazy or base-fracturing enough. Replace Sebastion with Anders and you have the bonus of Pro-Mage/Anti-Mage banter.

[Seagloom]

Brockololly wrote...

So how do they tie in whatever events or revelations happen in the comic back into a DA game where Alistair doesn't exist? It seems they're trying to have everything fit together like you said, but then they do something like this which just cannot work at all based on player driven choices in the previous game. It just makes for an odd mish mash potentially.

He will be reintegrated into the plot by whatever chicanery is necessary if his importance to the narrative warrants a drastic reinterpretation of past events. In all honesty, it will probably not be any worse than disconnects in the games' own selfcontained narrative. Alistair's adventures in Antiva could be ignorable in future games if he is dead or otherwise occupied. If not, it gets a mention in a codex entry or a related encounter.

Either way, I do not think it is worth dwelling on for now. As you wrote, "it just makes for an odd mish mash potentially". Key word: potentially. Who knows what will happen when all is said and done?