Nerevar-as wrote...
erilben wrote...
Probably not. The "Hero of Ferelden" has the "Shale followed the Warden" flag set to 0 (not true), which means Shale is still a statue in Honnleath I guess? But Shale is in the upcoming novel.
Off-topic, but how can I see the flags? I want to know how the DN background did, as it seems one that would take choices I won´t in any playthrough.
Modifié par Addai67, 16 octobre 2011 - 06:34 .
I'm certainly not playing them for the combat mechanics, especially not after DAII.Blacklash93 wrote...
You play these games for the story? Then enjoy it for what it is. I could enjoy a Bioware story even without the player agency.Kaiser Shepard wrote...
I play these games for their stories first and foremost, but when even the creators of the series have little regard left for what they have already created, then why should I still give a damn?
The writers have much regard for what they have created. They love it so much, in fact, that they aren't going to compromise their vision of how certain characters should developed for the sake of a few pissy people who think their canon is sacred above all else. They aren't going to avoid addressing a certain canon just to please you.
These comic/books/whatever exist to flesh out the DA world and that's exactly what they'll do.
I think the Warden's actions actually didn't have much impact outside Ferelden actually. Moving to different protagonists allows them to minimize how much they have to change to compensate for all the different choices. In many cases, the overall effect isn't that different. It's easier than Mass Effect. Of course, to pull this off they should minimize how many companion characters they bring back from past games. Side characters like Isabela aren't much of a big deal, but too much hand waving was involved with Anders.KiddDaBeauty wrote...
I always considered having an import in DA to be a mistake anyway. Since we're going to be playing a whole lot of protagonists through history, it will hinder the writing way too much. Think about it, how much did the Warden have the ability to change in DAO? A whole lot. Now imagine when you're picking up Dragon Age 8 or something similar in the future. If they all had as much effect on the world from your choice as DAO, it'd be more or less impossible to write anything from that point on. When we're this early in the series, it's easier to handwave things, be vague and say broad terms for things, but it will get more and more difficult as time continues.
A legion of unknowable, molevolent forces that sleep beyond the stars capable of driving people to their will sounds pretty Lovecraftian to me.Foolsfolly wrote...
Actually, the only thing Lovecraftian about the Reapers is their indoctrination. The most Lovecraftian thing of those games so far is the Thorian.
Dragon Blood turns people into Reavers, but blood in this setting seems to power all kinds of things. And they're clearly intelligent (side with Korgrim and the High Dragon lets you pass and doesn't mindlessly attack Kolgrim). And Old Gods seem to be dragons.
I don't know what their secret history is. Despite being a setting for two games and multiple DLC and books... I just don't know how high fantasy they're going to go with this stuff.
Modifié par Brockololly, 16 octobre 2011 - 07:41 .
Brockololly wrote...
Gaider seems to clearly say that Alistair and company are "searching for a Witch of the Wilds, which is one of Flemeth's daughters." So that would seem to rule out Flemeth but leaves it open to Morrigan or some other Witch of the Wilds. Could be the one Zveran mentions to Morrigan in their banter in Origins.
Zevran: So if the legend of your mother is true, Morrigan, does that mean that the legends of her many daughters are as well?
Morrigan: To be honest, I have no idea. I've never met any sister of mine, nor has my mother spoken of any.
Zevran: But it could be true, yes? If you exist, there could have been others like you.
Morrigan: Long ago, perhaps. Why?
Zevran: We have legends of witches in Antiva. one that tells of a Witch of the Wild, traveled far from her home to settle in the Tellari Swamps.
Morrigan: And? You thought I might know this woman?
Zevran: If one legend can be true, why not another? Who knows how many Morrigans are scattered about Thedas, hmm?
Morrigan: It's not something I'd like to contemplate.
Zevran: Oh? You do not appreciate a little competition from a half-sister or two?
Morrigan: Silence, elf. It is none of your concern.
Modifié par Merilsell, 16 octobre 2011 - 07:58 .
Merilsell wrote...
This is the meant banter, posted for reference:Zevran: So if the legend of your mother is true, Morrigan, does that mean that the legends of her many daughters are as well?
Morrigan: To be honest, I have no idea. I've never met any sister of mine, nor has my mother spoken of any.
Zevran: But it could be true, yes? If you exist, there could have been others like you.
Morrigan: Long ago, perhaps. Why?
Zevran: We have legends of witches in Antiva. one that tells of a Witch of the Wild, traveled far from her home to settle in the Tellari Swamps.
Morrigan: And? You thought I might know this woman?
Zevran: If one legend can be true, why not another? Who knows how many Morrigans are scattered about Thedas, hmm?
Morrigan: It's not something I'd like to contemplate.
Zevran: Oh? You do not appreciate a little competition from a half-sister or two?
Morrigan: Silence, elf. It is none of your concern.
Hmm... the Tellari swamps, huh? Interesting...
Modifié par Brockololly, 16 octobre 2011 - 08:05 .
Kaiser Shepard wrote...
And the fact that they are perfectly willing to ignore choices they themselves implemented in these games shows exactly how little regard they have for their own creation. One would think they would at least plan a little ahead as far as possible consequences go, or at the very least work around any possible contradictions while taking into account past choices.
Bioware also makes hugely interesting worlds and great stories and great characters that stand on their own without any player agency. That's also a huge part of what put them on the radar.Choice used to be BioWare's niche, the one thing they managed to pull off better than most others. That which put them on the chart. Now, it looks like everyone and their mother is not only one-upping them here and there, but it even seems like BioWare isn't even trying anymore.
Generic with no depth? Your standards are impossibly high. While DA2 isn't Bioware's best story, it's still one of he better tales told in gaming - it still has a ton of character and grey morality.And if it was just the choice aspect that suffered in the transition, then sure, but as it stand there isn't any adventuring/exploring left either. Now, if the story itself would benefit from those restrictions, I would probably be able to look past them, but not only is the story extremely generic, it is also told without any depth whatsoever. No more poltics, no more intrigue...
Modifié par Blacklash93, 16 octobre 2011 - 08:22 .
The reveal about dragons is said to be regarding their nature.Brockololly wrote...
I'm going to guess that Flemeth and the Witches of the Wilds in some way control the dragons in Thedas or are otherwise responsible for their reemergence. It could more than likely tie into Morrigan's interest in the soul of Urthemiel as well, and possibly the Old Gods- being dragons and all. Or maybe the Witches of the Wilds are all dragon cultists of some kind and thats how the likes of Flemeth have learned how to shapeshift into a dragon.
Modifié par Blacklash93, 16 octobre 2011 - 09:04 .
Siven80 wrote...
Maybe its just me, but i dont mind if they do set their own canon.
Guest_simfamUP_*
csfteeeer wrote...
Siven80 wrote...
Maybe its just me, but i dont mind if they do set their own canon.
i would also (vastly) prefer if they just did that.
there are too many possibilities and unless they REALLY want to pay respects to everyone's canon in the games, it's just hurting the series.
Guess my first Warden didn't decide to sacrifice himself, then.Blacklash93 wrote...
Kaiser Shepard wrote...
And the fact that they are perfectly willing to ignore choices they themselves implemented in these games shows exactly how little regard they have for their own creation. One would think they would at least plan a little ahead as far as possible consequences go, or at the very least work around any possible contradictions while taking into account past choices.
They are not ignoring these choices. In the games, everything will reflect what you've decided.
Even if they do "justify" it, it still is a weak move.If they don't, like with Leliana, there will definitely be a justification for it.
The former seemed to work rather well for Karpyshyn in his Mass Effect novels Hell, he even had only a mere instance of a 'retcon', one which was far more justified and believable than "I got better".Bioware has three choices here with these books and comics. Either they ignore character subject to variables, involve them in a way that is not substantial in the future (due to resource constraints and the peril of contradictions), or they actually put these great character to good use with an alternate canon.
The latter-most, to me, allows for a better story that develops from characters I've come to love.
They made hugely interesting worlds, great stories and great characters, but after a "decade" in the open-air prison that was Kirkwall I cannot really vie for that anymore.Bioware also makes hugely interesting worlds and great stories and great characters that stand on their own without any player agency. That's also a huge part of what put them on the radar.
Hardly. After all, the team's previous outing was more than enough game for me.Generic with no depth? Your standards are impossibly high.
Oh please, even a random run of the mill shooter has a better story than DA2.While DA2 isn't Bioware's best story, it's still one of he better tales told in gaming -
Morality means little if there's no player agency, and it's far from grey and grey in BioWare's latest "masterpiece".it still has a ton of character and grey morality.
Modifié par Kaiser Shepard, 16 octobre 2011 - 09:10 .
KiddDaBeauty wrote...
I always considered having an import in DA to be a mistake anyway. Since we're going to be playing a whole lot of protagonists through history, it will hinder the writing way too much. Think about it, how much did the Warden have the ability to change in DAO? A whole lot. Now imagine when you're picking up Dragon Age 8 or something similar in the future. If they all had as much effect on the world from your choice as DAO, it'd be more or less impossible to write anything from that point on. When we're this early in the series, it's easier to handwave things, be vague and say broad terms for things, but it will get more and more difficult as time continues.
Imports are a great idea in Mass Effect since it was envisioned to be a trilogy. But it will be a lot more difficult for Dragon Age. Heck, what happens with the Xbox 720 and PS4 come out? It's not like it's likely we can import our saves then. Are console players going to have to ignore all their past continuity while PC gamers will keep their saves around for tens of years? This import thing isn't future-proof at all.
Modifié par Merci357, 16 octobre 2011 - 09:16 .
FedericoV wrote...
csfteeeer wrote...
Siven80 wrote...
Maybe its just me, but i dont mind if they do set their own canon.
i would also (vastly) prefer if they just did that.
there are too many possibilities and unless they REALLY want to pay respects to everyone's canon in the games, it's just hurting the series.
I agree. And it does not mean that they should not leave the big choices to the players during the game: not having a continuity of sort is causing the opposite problem. Only that between games they estabilish the canon that makes more sense for the story: so we could see some of the elements of the previous story return, one way or the other. Just like how they did with BG2.
Modifié par csfteeeer, 16 octobre 2011 - 09:28 .
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