85 réponses à ce sujet

[Sabariel]

I don't care either way, they can be present or not.

Though I admit that the fandom is more fun to watch if they are present. Can you imagine what will happen to the fangirls if Isabela and Alistair end up in bed together in the new comic? So many implosions, so little time to make popcorn.

[TEWR]

Alistair can in fact sleep with Isabela, should you play a female Warden and I think harden him (pun intended if it was successful).

Modifié par The Ethereal Writer Redux, 17 octobre 2011 - 04:05 .

[Sabariel]

Cthulhu42 wrote...

Silentmode wrote...

I enjoy the inter-party romances and hope they expand on it moving forward. I think it's a great way to show companions don't completely revolve around the protagonist and have their own wants and desires. Except for Isabela and Fenris. I never use Fenris for two reasons. First, because I hate him in general and use him as little as possible, in fact in most of my playthroughs I gave him to Denarius or killed him outright at the end. Second, because I want him as far away from Isabela as possible. Whoever thought they make a good pairing needs to have their head examined.

I approve of Carver-Merril, and Bethany-Sebastian however. I wouldn't mind seeing Bethany-Nathanial as a pair either if you make Bethany a Grey Warden.

See, this is the problem. While some people may approve of some inter-party rlationships, we all have ones that we don't want to see. And while not having any particular two characters get together would anger nobody, having them get together would be sure to upset somebody. Which is why inter-party relationships are a bad idea to begin with; they ultimately upset those who don't like the pairings more than they entertain the ones who do.

Man Hawke/Fenris upsets people, Man Hawke/Anders upsets people, people fantasizing about Isabela/Merrill upsets people, Isabela all on her own seems to upset people. It's not just companion relationships that twist panties. Panties will always be twisted. Removing companion relationships for that common reason is silly.

[Sabariel]

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

Alistair can in fact sleep with Isabela, should you play a female Warden and I think harden him (pun sort-of intended).

Oh, I have. I made Oghren faint. It was fun. Then I had a foursome with 'bela, Zev, and Leliana. That was fun too... and Oghren fainted again.

[Silentmode]

Sylvanpyxie wrote...

But that holds true in every aspect of making a game.

It does. But consider this. Companion characters are a staple of Bioware RPGs. They're a key factor in their games. Infact they may even be the biggest factor overall for the level of popularity Bioware hold for their games.

Now consider each character Bioware create has a fan base, usually a large one. An NPC-Romance requires x2 NPCs. That's two fan bases, full of people that love a character to bits. The chances are you'll find a fairly large number of them against the idea.

And i'd like to clarify for anyone that hasn't paid attention: I'm not against NPC hook-ups. I'd prefer Bioware to focus more on the player-NPC hook-ups because they need to be expanded on.. But i am *not* against NPC hook-ups. I merely like discussing things from all angles.

Exactly. I would go so far to say that the companions are the most unique and biggest draw to any Bioware game. And with that said, wouldn't you want to utilize them in anyway you can? Push the boundries of what companions can be outside of aiding you in combat and being able to interact with. Plus it makes each of them more realistic. I can't imagine somebody going chaste the rest of their life just because [insert protagonist here] didn't decide to romance them. That's just implausible, especially when playing a game like DA2 that spans 7 years, and would cement the idea that because I'm the protagonist everything revolves around me, which is a story structure I dislike.

[HK-90210]

Sylvanpyxie wrote...

But that holds true in every aspect of making a game.

It does. But consider this. Companion characters are a staple of Bioware RPGs. They're a key factor in their games. Infact they may even be the biggest factor overall for the level of popularity Bioware hold for their games.

Now consider each character Bioware create has a fan base, usually a large one. An NPC-Romance requires x2 NPCs. That's two fan bases, full of people that love a character to bits. The chances are you'll find a fairly large number of them against the idea.

And i'd like to clarify for anyone that hasn't paid attention: I'm not against NPC hook-ups. I'd prefer Bioware to focus more on the player-NPC hook-ups because they need to be expanded on.. But i am *not* against NPC hook-ups. I merely like discussing things from all angles.

Fair points, all. Thanks for the persepective. I appreciate you advocating on the other side of the issue. Makes for interesting debate.

Still gonna stick with my side, even if it ticks people off. But then, I like pissing off people I disagree with.

Modifié par CastonFolarus, 17 octobre 2011 - 04:09 .

[Sylvanpyxie]

Still gonna stick with my side

As i intend to.

I think NPC hook-ups are a good idea, possibly even great. However i think i'd like to see companions improved upon in general, before Bioware go "in-depth" with NPC romances.. Having characters with depth, that evolve through-out a game, i put as a higher priority.

[Sabariel]

Cthulhu42 wrote...

Sabariel wrote...

Cthulhu42 wrote...

Silentmode wrote...

I enjoy the inter-party romances and hope they expand on it moving forward. I think it's a great way to show companions don't completely revolve around the protagonist and have their own wants and desires. Except for Isabela and Fenris. I never use Fenris for two reasons. First, because I hate him in general and use him as little as possible, in fact in most of my playthroughs I gave him to Denarius or killed him outright at the end. Second, because I want him as far away from Isabela as possible. Whoever thought they make a good pairing needs to have their head examined.

I approve of Carver-Merril, and Bethany-Sebastian however. I wouldn't mind seeing Bethany-Nathanial as a pair either if you make Bethany a Grey Warden.

See, this is the problem. While some people may approve of some inter-party rlationships, we all have ones that we don't want to see. And while not having any particular two characters get together would anger nobody, having them get together would be sure to upset somebody. Which is why inter-party relationships are a bad idea to begin with; they ultimately upset those who don't like the pairings more than they entertain the ones who do.

Man Hawke/Fenris upsets people, Man Hawke/Anders upsets people, people fantasizing about Isabela/Merrill upsets people, Isabela all on her own seems to upset people. It's not just companion relationships that twist panties. Panties will always be twisted. Removing companion relationships for that common reason is silly.

Well, I suppose the difference is that none of the things you mention actually happen in-game unless you want them to. I didn't want ManHawke/Fenris, so I just didn't do it; simple as that. But if there were inter-party relationships that automatically happened provided that you weren't romancing either involved, it would not be so easy to ignore. And considering what little it would add to the game, it doesn't seem worth the trade-off.

All you have to do to avoid those relationships is not have whichever two characters you don't want to see together (well, hear about, to be more accurate) in your party at the same time. It's easily avoided.

[GodWood]

Cthulhu42 wrote...
See, this is the problem. While some people may approve of some inter-party rlationships, we all have ones that we don't want to see.

And those people who are against it need to suck it up.
Boohoo, your virtual waifu is ****ing someone else in another player's playthrough.

Deal with it.

[Eudaemonium]

Seriously, I never expected this much resistance to the idea. Colour me confused. =/

I am now going to become a virulent Carrill shipper just to spite people. I mean, *Isabela* ships them, and I trust her judgement when it comes to adorable couples.

Modifié par Eudaemonium, 17 octobre 2011 - 08:45 .

[TobiTobsen]

I would approve of inter-party romances. But please in the Isabela&Fenris style and not like the Haer'Dalis version.

[Knight of Dane]

I doubt there is going to be more that flirts in the party, what they do with others aoutside the party is ok.

People will always adore party mates, and many won't like the pairings. Make it player invoked so that you can avoid it if you don't want it. I Disapprove of Carver/Merrill but Approve highly of Bethany/Sebastian. Someone else might feel the opposite way around. By keeping the game open you get a broad line of fans that can do as they please and fill the boards with "Would-be-canon" threads.

[LilyasAvalon]

I approve of inter-party romance and all the romances, I always find it odd when the hero is the only one getting some.

That being said however, in my first playthrough with F!Hawke with romanced Fenris, I accidently choose the dialogue of 'So you're ending this.' which CANCELS out the romance. I didn't know this at first, so Hawke ghosted around with a broken heart for 3 years waiting for Fenris...

...Only to find out he was banging Isabella in Act 3. Not cool. D<

[TEWR]

GodWood wrote...

Cthulhu42 wrote...
See, this is the problem. While some people may approve of some inter-party rlationships, we all have ones that we don't want to see.

And those people who are against it need to suck it up.
Boohoo, your virtual waifu is ****ing someone else in another player's playthrough.

Deal with it.

It's not really that. It's -- for me at least -- the fact that Carver and Merrill don't seem right for each other because of their different personas and how little they actually interact with one another.

I have no qualms with Merrill or Carver getting their own LI. Just that putting them together seems like an unnecessary thing to do just to say "now everyone in the party is close!", which would be a mistake imo.

All Carver seems to have is an infatuation, which is normal but those are based a lot of the time on the physical attraction which is the same for Carver.

Not to mention his stance on blood magic. Given that he can become a Templar, do you know how much sense it would make for him to be with a blood mage apostate when he's a Templar?

None at all.

And Wardens don't really get a chance to have lives outside of their duty, but I'm sure that in all the venturing Carver does with the Wardens he could find someone else that he'd have far more interactions with.

[Eudaemonium]

LilyasAvalon wrote...

I approve of inter-party romance and all the romances, I always find it odd when the hero is the only one getting some.

That being said however, in my first playthrough with F!Hawke with romanced Fenris, I accidently choose the dialogue of 'So you're ending this.' which CANCELS out the romance. I didn't know this at first, so Hawke ghosted around with a broken heart for 3 years waiting for Fenris...

...Only to find out he was banging Isabella in Act 3. Not cool. D<

Ah, such sweet sorrow.

[HK-90210]

GodWood wrote...

Cthulhu42 wrote...
See, this is the problem. While some people may approve of some inter-party rlationships, we all have ones that we don't want to see.

And those people who are against it need to suck it up.
Boohoo, your virtual waifu is ****ing someone else in another player's playthrough.

Deal with it.

I don't know, I think it's reasonable to question relationships you just don't get. I can understand people not liking Carrill as a couple. But the best place to voice that kind of complaint, IMHO, is using Hawke him/herself.

The dialogue trees would be fun...

[Chiramu]

Carver and Merrill are the best pairing, I don't like Bethany enough to play her to meet Sebastian(as you get him in Act 2).

You hardly see any of Aveline and Donnic so I don't care for them at all.

Perhaps Carver will be good for Merrill in the long run though, especially since he knows a bit about mages and knows how evil blood magic is.

[Quething]

Silentmode wrote...

Exactly. I would go so far to say that the companions are the most unique and biggest draw to any Bioware game. And with that said, wouldn't you want to utilize them in anyway you can? Push the boundries of what companions can be outside of aiding you in combat and being able to interact with. Plus it makes each of them more realistic. I can't imagine somebody going chaste the rest of their life just because [insert protagonist here] didn't decide to romance them. That's just implausible, especially when playing a game like DA2 that spans 7 years, and would cement the idea that because I'm the protagonist everything revolves around me, which is a story structure I dislike.

I do think it's screwy that Merrill appears to be an eternal virgin if you don't romance her (I tend to ship Merrill/Mahariel for this reason alone, I need no others). But I don't think the answer is to hook them up with other party members.

I mean, Lots of people like Aveline/Donnic. Even people who wanted to romance Aveline don't seem to object to Donnic as a person. There are no Donnic hate threads. There are, on the other hand, Merrill hate threads. There are Sebastian hate threads. There are people who loathe Isabela and give her to the Arishok solely because in another universe she dared to touch their darling Fenris. And while I generally am of the opinion that anything honest to the character is fair game for a writer, I also think that that's an unnecessarily contentious way to give NPCs a non-PC life when a less contentious (Donnic-style) route is available.

Though the example is admittedly complicated by the player's ability to intervene in (and ultimate control over) the Aveline/Donnic relationship. That's probably also part of why many players enjoy it, but it actually takes it in the opposite direction from your stated interest in a world that's less PC-centric. That said, I'd argue that that's all the more reason to have party members only date outside the party if not dating the PC; the party is, after all, the PC's creation, and any hookup between Isabela and Fenris is due entirely to their friendship with Hawke, without which they'd never have met, much less associated for longer than five minutes.

[GodWood]

Cthulhu42 wrote...

GodWood wrote...

Cthulhu42 wrote...
See, this is the problem. While some people may approve of some inter-party rlationships, we all have ones that we don't want to see.

And those people who are against it need to suck it up.
Boohoo, your virtual waifu is ****ing someone else in another player's playthrough.

Deal with it.

You could make this argument about any feature. Don't like repeated environments? Deal with it. Don't like wave combat? Deal with it. That doesn't stop them from being inherently bad ideas.

(Ignoring the fact that nothing is inherently bad)

You're comparing adding another layer of depth to characters and developing their interactions with one another to recycled environments and wave combat?

Pfftt, no.

Plus using your logic developers shouldn't make games at all simply because not everyone likes them .

[Luicas]

Chouan wrote...

Well, Carver & Merrill pairing would never happen in my playthroughs because all my mages (and all except one of my rogues) go for her, so little brother would need to find someone else...

On my last playthrough my Hawke had a love / hate relationship with Merrill (she was rival yet my brute romanced her). Weird... In Best Served Cold I was told a woman was kidnapped from a Hightown mansion in order to keep me from meddling mages affairs... She had to be, Merill! So I ran home to ask my manservant if it was true but as I arrived there she was as always. I thought I better get Merrill to tag along to Wounded coast to see who this kidnapped imposter is. When we arrived to Wounded Coast Merrill was laying on the ground, unconscious, wearing her old green clothing. The Merrill in my party (wearing white) was speechless. (Someone forgot to write her a witty line for the occasion?) So now I was about to have two Merrills or maybe her identical twin. Too bad Carver wasn't around. He could have had the other Merrill. Then again having two Merrills to warm our champions sheets doesn't sound too bad either. One could be at home raising kids while the other one would be causing mayhem with Hawke. Hopefully that little pervert Sandal, who has been eying out my gal, leaves for Orlais before he gets any ideas.

Well the quest was obviously bugged and afterwards the game had only one Merrill without any furher peculiarities.

[Sabariel]

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

GodWood wrote...

Cthulhu42 wrote...
See, this is the problem. While some people may approve of some inter-party rlationships, we all have ones that we don't want to see.

And those people who are against it need to suck it up.
Boohoo, your virtual waifu is ****ing someone else in another player's playthrough.

Deal with it.

It's not really that. It's -- for me at least -- the fact that Carver and Merrill don't seem right for each other because of their different personas and how little they actually interact with one another.

I have no qualms with Merrill or Carver getting their own LI. Just that putting them together seems like an unnecessary thing to do just to say "now everyone in the party is close!", which would be a mistake imo.

All Carver seems to have is an infatuation, which is normal but those are based a lot of the time on the physical attraction which is the same for Carver.

Not to mention his stance on blood magic. Given that he can become a Templar, do you know how much sense it would make for him to be with a blood mage apostate when he's a Templar?

None at all.

And Wardens don't really get a chance to have lives outside of their duty, but I'm sure that in all the venturing Carver does with the Wardens he could find someone else that he'd have far more interactions with.

An anti-blood mage, anti-mage-in-general, warrior-templar Hawke can rivalmance Merrill. I don't see why Templar!Carver couldn't rivalmance Merrill too.