185 réponses à ce sujet

[CrimsonZephyr]

Sons of Horus wrote...

CrimsonZephyr wrote...

Wulfram wrote...

jamesp81 wrote...

I see a victory in which mages free themselves entirely from the Chantry, but continue to live in Circle towers. The Circle has always been wealthy because of the enchanted items it can create and sell. This would continue, and provide plenty adequate funding for the mages to maintain their circles.

Enchanting is done by the Tranquil.  Which free mages would presumably abolish, or greatly reduce.

Tranquil are the best at enchanting, but mages themselves are not incapable of it. That ambassador mage in Vigil's Keep is a mage and is able to enchant runes into your gear without a tranquil in sight.

As for the lyrium monopoly, there's no guarantee that the Chantry will be able to maintain it, especially since they don't have the muscle of the Templars at their beck and call.

The "ambassador mage" was a Tranquil in Vigil's Keep. Only dwarfs and Tranquil are able to perform the enchantments. It's common to send Tranquil emissaries like the warden's camp.

Cera? She was clearly not. She didn't have the creepy monotone voice. Emissary Pether in the Warden's Camp was.

[Beerfish]

The world will be ruled by the Qunari because the horn heads are waiting, biding their time and will jump in in the midst of this conflict when both sides are weak and distracted. I see them making a deal with one of the two sides, whoever is losing and desperate and then immediately turning on them when victory is in sight.

Thus showing the often quoted 'the enemy of my enemy is my friend' is often short sighted baloney.

[DKJaigen]

Wulfram wrote...

jamesp81 wrote...

I see a victory in which mages free themselves entirely from the Chantry, but continue to live in Circle towers. The Circle has always been wealthy because of the enchanted items it can create and sell. This would continue, and provide plenty adequate funding for the mages to maintain their circles.

Enchanting is done by the Tranquil.  Which free mages would presumably abolish, or greatly reduce.

The rite of tranquilty orginal function was to make sure that weak minded mages do not become a threat. This practice will no doubt continue without the chantry

[DKJaigen]

Rojahar wrote...

Who would stop rampaging abominations and police maleficarum in this "mages destroy the templars and chantry and take over the world" scenario? Who would and how would anyone prevent a blood mage from mind controlling countless people for sinister purposes? What would be a check on mages from abusing their powers to abuse and lord over others?

That will never happen. But no doubt the mages will train their own superior mage hunters to replace the ineffective templars.

[DKJaigen]

TJPags wrote...

Well, in the short term:  Lots of Dead Templars, dead mages as well.  Probably a lot of dead innocents - collateral damage and all that.

In the middle term:  Continued fighting, since the Chantry itself needs to be demolished for the mages to be as free as they wish.  Likely, that would involve more dead people who aren't Templars, since many nobles, and probably a lot of regular people, aren't going to take kindly to watching their Chanters and all killed just for preaching what is, to most people, their religion.

In the long term:  a world with either no religion or a new religion entirely.  With no check on mages, parents will have to find teachers for their mage children from among those mages still alive, or risk their child doing things by accident - or intent - which injure people or property, and being sued and/or tossed out on their arses because of it. 

And who knows what the mage-teacher might demand in exchange for that teaching - goods, services, money, land.  After all, what wouldn't a family do to make sure their child can handle themselves safely? 

Or perhaps a family with nothing, afraid that their child, instead of harmlessly setting a chair in the kitchen on fire, might do that to some other child who is taunting them, fearing that the village they live in may turn on them, kill them, force them out into nothingness - that family may just abandon the mage child to ensure the safety and well being of their other children.

So, yea, sounds like a lovely place.

LOL. In your world people must be retarded. The circle system will remain regardless which outcome. Because the mages will always rely on new recruits and will never allow the circle to dissapear/

[DKJaigen]

Wulfram wrote...

Mages form an alliance with, say, Nevarra and Fereldan, start their own chantry with blackjack and hookers which doesn't hate on the mages and isn't under Orlesian control.  Recieve a stipend from the state in return for military service and policing themselves.

I dont know but after mota it seems that the chantry managed to ****** of the empress of orlais.

[KJandrew]

A massive pile of dead Thedosians. And no sympathy for the magi or the templars from the peasants.

[TheCreeper]

DKJaigen wrote...

Wulfram wrote...

Mages form an alliance with, say, Nevarra and Fereldan, start their own chantry with blackjack and hookers which doesn't hate on the mages and isn't under Orlesian control.  Recieve a stipend from the state in return for military service and policing themselves.

I dont know but after mota it seems that the chantry managed to ****** of the empress of orlais.

How did the Empress get made at the Chantry for that anyways? The chantry wasn't even involved beyond Leliana being their.

[DKJaigen]

TheCreeper wrote...

DKJaigen wrote...

Wulfram wrote...

Mages form an alliance with, say, Nevarra and Fereldan, start their own chantry with blackjack and hookers which doesn't hate on the mages and isn't under Orlesian control.  Recieve a stipend from the state in return for military service and policing themselves.

I dont know but after mota it seems that the chantry managed to ****** of the empress of orlais.

How did the Empress get made at the Chantry for that anyways? The chantry wasn't even involved beyond Leliana being their.

Guilt through association. Leliana and Tallis have a history together. When tallis disapears with the Qunari NOC-list the empress will no doubt assume that leliana also had a hand in it. And since the empress will no doubt also know that leliana is a seeker.

[TJPags]

DKJaigen wrote...

TJPags wrote...

Well, in the short term:  Lots of Dead Templars, dead mages as well.  Probably a lot of dead innocents - collateral damage and all that.

In the middle term:  Continued fighting, since the Chantry itself needs to be demolished for the mages to be as free as they wish.  Likely, that would involve more dead people who aren't Templars, since many nobles, and probably a lot of regular people, aren't going to take kindly to watching their Chanters and all killed just for preaching what is, to most people, their religion.

In the long term:  a world with either no religion or a new religion entirely.  With no check on mages, parents will have to find teachers for their mage children from among those mages still alive, or risk their child doing things by accident - or intent - which injure people or property, and being sued and/or tossed out on their arses because of it. 

And who knows what the mage-teacher might demand in exchange for that teaching - goods, services, money, land.  After all, what wouldn't a family do to make sure their child can handle themselves safely? 

Or perhaps a family with nothing, afraid that their child, instead of harmlessly setting a chair in the kitchen on fire, might do that to some other child who is taunting them, fearing that the village they live in may turn on them, kill them, force them out into nothingness - that family may just abandon the mage child to ensure the safety and well being of their other children.

So, yea, sounds like a lovely place.

LOL. In your world people must be retarded. The circle system will remain regardless which outcome. Because the mages will always rely on new recruits and will never allow the circle to dissapear/

Really?  Who's going to pay for the upkeep of the Tower?  Buy food . . .bedding . . . cook . . .clean . . . pay those people . . .etc.  The mages?  Because, you see, the Chantry took care of those pesky expenses before.

As discussed upthread by others, what work is there for mages?  Honestly, how many do we see with an actual job that earn actual money?  A few renegades with mercenary companies, I suppose, but doesn't allowing that defeat the whole Tower idea?  I mean, those were apostates.

And as noted, enchanting is done by Tranquils.  Is the new mage council or whatever we want to call it STILL going to make mages tranquil??  That seems kind of harsh, isn't it?

Face it, it's the one issue about mage freedom that nobody seems to have an answer for, regardless of which side of mage freedom you're on.  The mages, for all some of them (ie, Anders) hate the Circles, are housed, fed, taught to a degree higher than that of most people in Thedas at no cost to themselves.  How do they maintain that without the Chantry supplying the funds?

[blothulfur]

Tevinter.

[jamesp81]

CrimsonZephyr wrote...

Sons of Horus wrote...

CrimsonZephyr wrote...

Wulfram wrote...

jamesp81 wrote...

I see a victory in which mages free themselves entirely from the Chantry, but continue to live in Circle towers. The Circle has always been wealthy because of the enchanted items it can create and sell. This would continue, and provide plenty adequate funding for the mages to maintain their circles.

Enchanting is done by the Tranquil.  Which free mages would presumably abolish, or greatly reduce.

Tranquil are the best at enchanting, but mages themselves are not incapable of it. That ambassador mage in Vigil's Keep is a mage and is able to enchant runes into your gear without a tranquil in sight.

As for the lyrium monopoly, there's no guarantee that the Chantry will be able to maintain it, especially since they don't have the muscle of the Templars at their beck and call.

The "ambassador mage" was a Tranquil in Vigil's Keep. Only dwarfs and Tranquil are able to perform the enchantments. It's common to send Tranquil emissaries like the warden's camp.

Cera? She was clearly not. She didn't have the creepy monotone voice. Emissary Pether in the Warden's Camp was.

Cera was definitely not a tranquil.

[jamesp81]

TJPags wrote...

DKJaigen wrote...

TJPags wrote...

Well, in the short term:  Lots of Dead Templars, dead mages as well.  Probably a lot of dead innocents - collateral damage and all that.

In the middle term:  Continued fighting, since the Chantry itself needs to be demolished for the mages to be as free as they wish.  Likely, that would involve more dead people who aren't Templars, since many nobles, and probably a lot of regular people, aren't going to take kindly to watching their Chanters and all killed just for preaching what is, to most people, their religion.

In the long term:  a world with either no religion or a new religion entirely.  With no check on mages, parents will have to find teachers for their mage children from among those mages still alive, or risk their child doing things by accident - or intent - which injure people or property, and being sued and/or tossed out on their arses because of it. 

And who knows what the mage-teacher might demand in exchange for that teaching - goods, services, money, land.  After all, what wouldn't a family do to make sure their child can handle themselves safely? 

Or perhaps a family with nothing, afraid that their child, instead of harmlessly setting a chair in the kitchen on fire, might do that to some other child who is taunting them, fearing that the village they live in may turn on them, kill them, force them out into nothingness - that family may just abandon the mage child to ensure the safety and well being of their other children.

So, yea, sounds like a lovely place.

LOL. In your world people must be retarded. The circle system will remain regardless which outcome. Because the mages will always rely on new recruits and will never allow the circle to dissapear/

Really?  Who's going to pay for the upkeep of the Tower?  Buy food . . .bedding . . . cook . . .clean . . . pay those people . . .etc.  The mages?  Because, you see, the Chantry took care of those pesky expenses before.

As discussed upthread by others, what work is there for mages?  Honestly, how many do we see with an actual job that earn actual money?  A few renegades with mercenary companies, I suppose, but doesn't allowing that defeat the whole Tower idea?  I mean, those were apostates.

And as noted, enchanting is done by Tranquils.  Is the new mage council or whatever we want to call it STILL going to make mages tranquil??  That seems kind of harsh, isn't it?

Face it, it's the one issue about mage freedom that nobody seems to have an answer for, regardless of which side of mage freedom you're on.  The mages, for all some of them (ie, Anders) hate the Circles, are housed, fed, taught to a degree higher than that of most people in Thedas at no cost to themselves.  How do they maintain that without the Chantry supplying the funds?

The Circle's wealth already comes from the enchanted goods it sells.  Their money will continue to come from that, as it always has.

[TJPags]

So, the newly enlightened free mages are going to make their own people Tranquil in order to make money so the rest can live in style?
That's . . . . marvelous . . . . .

[Huntress]

Mages probably break up in groups, the ones who wants to rule, the ones who want to serve and the ones who will go to exile.
There is always going to be good mages and bad mages, just as there is good people and bad people.
This groups will create new rules and teach the new born mages new or old magic, same as the elves have done since.. ever.
if new mages start going to tevinter they'll probably end up as slaves or as vessels for demons, they do NOT know the rules and tevinter mages do NOT like competition.

The chantry hasn't controled tevinter for more than 900 years, they'll probably never go back and they'll probably try to make death-capital law to kill mages on site "if they manage to gain control over the templars".
They'll probably start killing young mages to strike fear and as a warning that magic is not welcome. parent of gifted childrens already leave them in the street ( wynne) so killing them is going to be see as merciful.

After all that it will take many many years for people to accept a gifted even after all that time they'll look at him with fear and respect.

Modifié par Huntress, 18 octobre 2011 - 03:40 .

[DPSSOC]

TJPags wrote...

So, the newly enlightened free mages are going to make their own people Tranquil in order to make money so the rest can live in style?
That's . . . . marvelous . . . . .

Beats sacrificing them for blood magic I suppose.

Edit: I must ask those who forsee a relatively peaceful response to the end of the war; what makes you think that an organized group of people with powers beyond any mortal person and who's only real challenge has just been defeated would accept being anything other than in charge?  When you can, quite literally, crush a person with a thought why would you accept anyone who couldn't as an equal or superior?

Modifié par DPSSOC, 18 octobre 2011 - 03:45 .

[Huntress]

TJPags wrote...

So, the newly enlightened free mages are going to make their own people Tranquil in order to make money so the rest can live in style?
That's . . . . marvelous . . . . .

There are mages who fear they own power, this mages will ask to be made tranquil, but is NOT forced upon them, is by their own choice. Yes there will be tranquil's, there will be good mages, there will be mercenaries mages, they'll be mages RULERS ( tevinter) and they'll be free mages in exile.

I hope we could see it.. next game is about Orlais and tevinter.. what a mess thats going to be! lol!

Modifié par Huntress, 18 octobre 2011 - 03:45 .

[Huntress]

DPSSOC wrote...

TJPags wrote...

So, the newly enlightened free mages are going to make their own people Tranquil in order to make money so the rest can live in style?
That's . . . . marvelous . . . . .

Beats sacrificing them for blood magic I suppose.

Edit: I must ask those who forsee a relatively peaceful response to the end of the war; what makes you think that an organized group of people with powers beyond any mortal person and who's only real challenge has just been defeated would accept being anything other than in charge?  When you can, quite literally, crush a person with a thought why would you accept anyone who couldn't as an equal or superior?

Oh because anyone with alot of power rules the world? well yes the chantry.. how silly of me, they have power, they crush people who do not accpet their rules and the ones under their wing are torturing/raping and turning tranquil mages already in prison cells.. ok i see you're point, you win.

[TJPags]

Huntress wrote...

TJPags wrote...

So, the newly enlightened free mages are going to make their own people Tranquil in order to make money so the rest can live in style?
That's . . . . marvelous . . . . .

There are mages who fear they own power, this mages will ask to be made tranquil, but is NOT forced upon them, is by their own choice. Yes there will be tranquil's, there will be good mages, there will be mercenaries mages, they'll be mages RULERS ( tevinter) and they'll be free mages in exile.

I hope we could see it.. next game is about Orlais and tevinter.. what a mess thats going to be! lol!

Why?  Why would they do that?

Instead, maybe they won't even want to be trained.  What about them?  Do the other mages force them to be trained?  Forcefully make them tranquil?

And what about power hungry mages?  Are the mages going to hunt them?  Kill thenm?  Forcefully make them tranquil?

Which mage will be the one to stand up and say "you can do this, you can't do that"?  And if a mage refuses?  What then?  Kill them?  Imprison them?  Make the tranquil?  Force them out of their homes?

It's not going to be all peaches and cream here, people.  There are going to be criminal mages.  And they will have to be policed by other mages.  And there will be some who don't like that.  Don't you think this is a recipe for a problem?

[Big I]

jamesp81 wrote...

TJPags wrote...

Really?  Who's going to pay for the upkeep of the Tower?  Buy food . . .bedding . . . cook . . .clean . . . pay those people . . .etc.  The mages?  Because, you see, the Chantry took care of those pesky expenses before.

As discussed upthread by others, what work is there for mages?  Honestly, how many do we see with an actual job that earn actual money?  A few renegades with mercenary companies, I suppose, but doesn't allowing that defeat the whole Tower idea?  I mean, those were apostates.

And as noted, enchanting is done by Tranquils.  Is the new mage council or whatever we want to call it STILL going to make mages tranquil??  That seems kind of harsh, isn't it?

Face it, it's the one issue about mage freedom that nobody seems to have an answer for, regardless of which side of mage freedom you're on.  The mages, for all some of them (ie, Anders) hate the Circles, are housed, fed, taught to a degree higher than that of most people in Thedas at no cost to themselves.  How do they maintain that without the Chantry supplying the funds?

The Circle's wealth already comes from the enchanted goods it sells.  Their money will continue to come from that, as it always has.

Also, mages represent the only access to legitimaye healthcare in Thedas. In a society where the closest equivalents to doctors are still using leeches mages can heal people by magic. Once they're no longer restricted from travel they can set up medical practices throughout Thedas, like Anders' clinic.


Furthermore, mages will always have a role as exorcists, working to kill demons and repair places where the Veil is thin, like Avernus does at Soldier's Peak.

[DPSSOC]

Huntress wrote...

DPSSOC wrote...

TJPags wrote...

So, the newly enlightened free mages are going to make their own people Tranquil in order to make money so the rest can live in style?
That's . . . . marvelous . . . . .

Beats sacrificing them for blood magic I suppose.

Edit: I must ask those who forsee a relatively peaceful response to the end of the war; what makes you think that an organized group of people with powers beyond any mortal person and who's only real challenge has just been defeated would accept being anything other than in charge?  When you can, quite literally, crush a person with a thought why would you accept anyone who couldn't as an equal or superior?

Oh because anyone with alot of power rules the world? well yes the chantry.. how silly of me, they have power, they crush people who do not accpet their rules and the ones under their wing are torturing/raping and turning tranquil mages already in prison cells.. ok i see you're point, you win.

It's not just the "people with power suck" angle though.  The mages fighting this war have been oppressed their entire lives, they've never had any real freedom and they just had to fight a massive war to gain in.  I just can't think of anything that would make them go, "And now that we have our freedom we will continue to act in the best interests of the people who allowed our millenia of oppression to happen.  Wait there's something wrong with that."

There is the old power corrupts probelm but there's also got to be something to make the mages see past the contempt and resentment that many, if not all, of them will have toward the people who allowed them to suffer.  What could it be?  Most of these mages don't have any kind of relationship with their families, mages like Jowan have very negative feelings toward their families because of their reaction to magic, and they have absolutely no connection with the common people.  What's going to make them say, "Ok let's stop with our immediate oppressors."?

[CrimsonZephyr]

DPSSOC wrote...
There is the old power corrupts probelm but there's also got to be something to make the mages see past the contempt and resentment that many, if not all, of them will have toward the people who allowed them to suffer.  What could it be?  Most of these mages don't have any kind of relationship with their families, mages like Jowan have very negative feelings toward their families because of their reaction to magic, and they have absolutely no connection with the common people.  What's going to make them say, "Ok let's stop with our immediate oppressors."?

Because not every mage is Anders...? I mean, realistically, they will have to come to arrangement with the powers that be if they win. Surely a solid portion of their leadership is lawful good enough to realize they can't remain brigands and marauders forever. Or are we operating under the assumption that every person is a shortsighted moron and/or completely evil?

And also, because mages would know better than anyone what happens when one kicks the dog too often - the dog will eventually bite back. If they are magnanimous in victory, within reason, they come off looking better. And they can't go to a Tevinter-esque system because even mages are enslaved there. Being dictators offers them only short-term, and very meager rewards. They need to protect their own interests and that is best done by protecting the common interests.

Modifié par CrimsonZephyr, 18 octobre 2011 - 04:55 .

[DKJaigen]

TJPags wrote...

Huntress wrote...

TJPags wrote...

So, the newly enlightened free mages are going to make their own people Tranquil in order to make money so the rest can live in style?
That's . . . . marvelous . . . . .

There are mages who fear they own power, this mages will ask to be made tranquil, but is NOT forced upon them, is by their own choice. Yes there will be tranquil's, there will be good mages, there will be mercenaries mages, they'll be mages RULERS ( tevinter) and they'll be free mages in exile.

I hope we could see it.. next game is about Orlais and tevinter.. what a mess thats going to be! lol!

Why?  Why would they do that?

Because thet dont like abominations.

Instead, maybe they won't even want to be trained.  What about them?  Do the other mages force them to be trained?  Forcefully make them tranquil?

yes

And what about power hungry mages?  Are the mages going to hunt them?  Kill thenm?  Forcefully make them tranquil?

yes

Which mage will be the one to stand up and say "you can do this, you can't do that"?  And if a mage refuses?  What then?  Kill them?  Imprison them?  Make the tranquil?  Force them out of their homes?

Tyranny of the majority. Also yes

It's not going to be all peaches and cream here, people.  There are going to be criminal mages.  And they will have to be policed by other mages.  And there will be some who don't like that.  Don't you think this is a recipe for a problem?

No

You really need to look up the word: disipline .And understand that mages will not tolerate bull**** from idiots that do not want to reign in their power. The circles( and not the templars who only enforce chantry law) already enforce such laws

[SkittlesKat96]

A bit of anarchy probably, after the destruction and massive amounts of deaths there would be little order and the mages would probably take control and create new orders, monarchies and kingdoms (most likely.)

Maybe they will be able to avoid a huge split and avoid creating more problems though, maybe even keep everything the same way it is just without the Templars and possibly without the Chantry. Anything can happen almost.

[Everwarden]

Zanallen wrote...

It would look like nothing. I don't think the mages have a chance in hell of a complete victory. They are taking on the major religion of the known world. Their best chance would be to sue for peace or flee to a new land where they can find acceptance.

Yeah, because an army of walking Howitzers in a medieval setting have no chance at all of being a bunch of religious zealots. Which is why they successfully broke free of every Circle, when Templars were already watching them and supposed to be prepared.