185 réponses à ce sujet

[Dave of Canada]

GavrielKay wrote...

We have no gameplay evidence that life for the common folk is as bad as you claim.

The elves constantly being culled by the city guard.
Shianni being raped and abused by Vaughan.
People being kidnapped and tortured.
People being held hostage against their own families.
Peasants being culled by force.
Drunken folk at bars making too much noise being killed.
Chevaliers going around raping women.
Common folk being imprisoned for the slightest infraction (true or not) for life.
Parents having to give away their non-mage children at the slightest whim.
... and more.

If they show any slight inclination of being angry or upset, guess what? Nobody cares, nobility is above the law. Kill them all, it's funny!

Mages who want to be treated like everybody else should be given the same treatment, just this once.

[AlexXIV]

Dave of Canada wrote...

GavrielKay wrote...

We have no gameplay evidence that life for the common folk is as bad as you claim.

The elves constantly being culled by the city guard.
Shianni being raped and abused by Vaughan.
People being kidnapped and tortured.
People being held hostage against their own families.
Peasants being culled by force.
Drunken folk at bars making too much noise being killed.
Chevaliers going around raping women.
Common folk being imprisoned for the slightest infraction (true or not) for life.
Parents having to give away their non-mage children at the slightest whim.
... and more.

If they show any slight inclination of being angry or upset, guess what? Nobody cares, nobility is above the law. Kill them all, it's funny!

Mages who want to be treated like everybody else should be given the same treatment, just this once.

Good points there.

Freedom isn't the same as comfort. But it's the mage's choice, if they want freedom they have to take it with all it's downsides. Just as we do, in real life. Still mages are more dangerous as most people ever can get, so they cannot even be left unchecked.

[TheGunslinger]

Well, since The Chantry has fallen to pieces, I see another Tevinter happening. I support mages but I wouldn't want to see another Tevinter. :/

[DKJaigen]

Dave of Canada wrote...

GavrielKay wrote...

We have no gameplay evidence that life for the common folk is as bad as you claim.

The elves constantly being culled by the city guard.
Shianni being raped and abused by Vaughan.
People being kidnapped and tortured.
People being held hostage against their own families.
Peasants being culled by force.
Drunken folk at bars making too much noise being killed.
Chevaliers going around raping women.
Common folk being imprisoned for the slightest infraction (true or not) for life.
Parents having to give away their non-mage children at the slightest whim.
... and more.

If they show any slight inclination of being angry or upset, guess what? Nobody cares, nobility is above the law. Kill them all, it's funny!

Mages who want to be treated like everybody else should be given the same treatment, just this once.

Yes yes its a ****ty place.But if you want to make it a better place then start somewhere

[Vlad_Dracul]

Tevinter looks like more friendly even for Elves as much as for mages. When Elf could be even Magister (like what Danarius promised to Varania), its fair, just like fair is, that slaves are both humans and elves. Feynriel was half-blood, and still he evidently hadnt problems in Minrathous. His magistery teacher probably saw only big potential, not elven look.
But in rest of the Thedas, elven noble or something more than servant is almost impossible to see.

Modifié par Vlad_Dracul, 20 octobre 2011 - 11:55 .

[jamesp81]

Vlad_Dracul wrote...

Tevinter looks like more friendly even for Elves as much as for mages. When Elf could be even Magister (like what Danarius promised to Varania), its fair, just like fair is, that slaves are both humans and elves. Feynriel was half-blood, and still he evidently hadnt problems in Minrathous. His magistery teacher probably saw only big potential, not elven look.
But in rest of the Thedas, elven noble or something more than servant is almost impossible to see.

Tevinter has its own sort of fairness among mages, but treat the rest like cattle.  Its honestly not any better or worse than Orlais, for example.  Still, their prejudices are apparently not racial, as anyone with a talent for magic is considered 'nobility' there.

Given Feynriel's power, I imagine his teacher wouldn't have cared if he was a talking horse.  Being the teacher of a future magister is probably a position of great potential power in Tevinter, one any magister would jump at.

In all honesty, the best place I think we've see for common people to live is Ferelden particularly in Redcliffe, Highever, and Amaranthine after it's given to the Warden.  Denerim's pretty bad, especially the alienage, but it's still not even close to as horrendous as Orlais, Orzammar, or Tevinter.

[Lazy Jer]

GodWood wrote...

The non-mages are afraid because a bunch of people who can explode you with their finger tips are now runnning around free.

The non-mages are annoyed because their new oppressive mage overlords are taxing them.

The non-mages fear the mages who are now turning into abominations because they can't handle the stresses of the real world.

The non-mages are sick of being oppressed by this minority and attack.


I'm sorry but how do any of these things make the non-mages idiots DK?

Non-mages being afraid of mages...that's reasonable, I'll grant you that.  What's more given what the Mothers & Sisters at the Chantry might have been saying to the common non-mage at whatever sermons and services, it seems downright likely.

Non-mages being upset at being taxed, however...I don't see that happening.  Let's face it no matter who runs things, taxes are going to be an integral part of it.  If the common man is being taxes x% of his income by the Viscount, then why would he be particularly upset about being charged x% of his income by the Viscount+magic.  As long as that x% doesn't go up, the common man won't flip out about the coin being put into someone else's purse.

As for the other two statements I won't comment on because they assumes something that can neither be proven or disproven.  Mages may flip and go abom, or they may just flip out and swear out loud at the top of their lungs like normal stressed out people.  As far as mages taking power and oppressing the common man...well if the nobles are already oppressing them, then all they need to do to avoid that happening is to oppress them less.  But I acknowledge that that can be easier said then done.  Power can corrupt anybody. 

[LobselVith8]

TJPags wrote...

No, it's not.  I don't at all think this thread is about mages v templars.  This thread has eliminated that idea, by presupposing that there are no more templars.

This is something I'd think you would like, discussing how the mages go about integrsting themselves into society once they win their freedom.

Aside from the 'regional leadership' of mages across the Andrastian nations, and the question of what societies like the Dalish and the Kingdom of Rivain would be like, as well as the questions you raised about how mages would sustain themselves in the aftermath of their victory once they have maintained their autonomy, I wonder about the role that two prominent mages could have. Cassandra notes that Hawke is viewed as a hero to the mages, in the pro-mage ending. Meredith addresses that the failed 'Magi boon' has riled the mages in the Circles of Magi. What do you think about The Warden (from the Circle of Ferelden) or an apostate Hawke serving as 'voices of leadership' for the mage revolution?

[TJPags]

LobselVith8 wrote...

TJPags wrote...

No, it's not.  I don't at all think this thread is about mages v templars.  This thread has eliminated that idea, by presupposing that there are no more templars.

This is something I'd think you would like, discussing how the mages go about integrsting themselves into society once they win their freedom.

Aside from the 'regional leadership' of mages across the Andrastian nations, and the question of what societies like the Dalish and the Kingdom of Rivain would be like, as well as the questions you raised about how mages would sustain themselves in the aftermath of their victory once they have maintained their autonomy, I wonder about the role that two prominent mages could have. Cassandra notes that Hawke is viewed as a hero to the mages, in the pro-mage ending. Meredith addresses that the failed 'Magi boon' has riled the mages in the Circles of Magi. What do you think about The Warden (from the Circle of Ferelden) or an apostate Hawke serving as 'voices of leadership' for the mage revolution?

I don't think a Ferelden Mage-Warden has anything to do with the leadership of the mage revolution.  We certainly don't hear anything about them during DA2, not even Alistair makes reference to it.

As well, Hawke need not be a mage to have supported the mages.

 I think you put too much emphasis on mage-Warden, the magi boon, and mage-hawke.  All of these are simply one of several possibilities.  Mage-warden one of 6, magi boon also 1 of 6 (I think), and mage-hawke 1 of 3.  A mage warden need not ask for the magi boon, a mage hawke need not side with the mages, also. 

Things like this, IMO, have no place in theoretical discussions, or if they do, it's a minor place.  At best, it's fine to mention "but that might be different if there were a mage-warden . . ." but it can't be a large part of he discussion, simply because it's not always present.

That is, until BW decides they want it to be . . . .

[LobselVith8]

I understand that it isn't always present, TJPags, but I was curious how you think it would factor into the equation if these two possibilities were present. I'm curious to hear your opinion on what role the Hero of Ferelden from the Circle and an apostate Hawke could have, because it would factor in those specific scenarios.

In my opinion, I think (without them) that there isn't a unifying presence to command all the regional mages, that I think they would split into multiple groups under different leaderships (who will likely have different styles of leadership and different views on what should be done). I don't imagine that every mage leader would hold the same attitudes about how to obtain their wealth or maintain their living situation, how to police mages, what magic should be studied, if any type of magic should be prohibited, and a future where marriages might be possible without the prohibitions that prevented some mages from pursuing relationships.

Also, every scenario would need to consider the ramifications of the Dalish (who are nomadic because of the templars and their elven mages), especially if the occupying force that controls their homeland has fallen, and the situation with the seers in the Kingdom of Rivain where those specific mages aren't controlled. How would the mages and the mage leaders react?

[TEWR]

Dave of Canada wrote...



The elves constantly being culled by the city guard.

Right of Annulment.

Shianni being raped and abused by Vaughan.

Kirkwall's Templars and the Templars in other Circles as Anders says.

I realize the thread eliminated the idea of Templars, but I'm using this to show that it did happen.

People being kidnapped and tortured.

can't think of an instance off the top of my head where a mage may have been kidnapped or tortured. Doesn't mean there is one. Just that if there was, it didn't strike me as something to remember.

People being held hostage against their own families.

Ser Mettin was going to do some bad things to that mage's cousin. Could've been death, could've been holding hostage, we don't know.

He's a sadistic SoB.

Peasants being culled by force.

back to RoA.

Chevaliers going around raping women.

back to Templars raping mages. Again, just showing that it did happen.

Common folk being imprisoned for the slightest infraction (true or not) for life.

Mages being made Tranquil for things (true or not). Usually in Kirkwall, but who's to say it didn't happen elsewhere?

And that's definitely worse. At least in prison you still have your emotions. And who was imprisoned for their lives? The people in Arl Howe's dungeons? He was a sadistic bastard who would've thrown anyone in prison for any reason (usually they were people who would speak out against Loghain and weaken his position and by extension Arl Howe's). He hardly speaks for all the nobility.

Parents having to give away their non-mage children at the slightest whim.

Don't recall this ever happening in the games.

If they show any slight inclination of being angry or upset, guess what? Nobody cares, nobility is above the law. Kill them all, it's funny!

That's a sad fact of life. Nobility think that by being rich they are above the law when nobility has another meaning, and one that's lost to the rich folk.

They say that money is power and that absolute power corrupts absolutely.

What can you do about it?

Mages who want to be treated like everybody else should be given the same treatment, just this once.

In most of your scenarios, when they were in the Circles they were in fact treated like that.