360 réponses à ce sujet

[MozartsGhost]

So as well as being able to pick our gender, we should have two completely different play throughs depending on what one we pick? Are men and women really so different?

I honestly didn't find my femhawke to be masculine in any way with her responses. And her voice actor was top notch. I personally don't think there needs to be too much emphasis on gender.

Modifié par MozartsGhost, 19 octobre 2011 - 10:46 .

[goandkissurmuthersbehind]

final fantasy 13 has a female protagonist and its one of the most sold rpgs lately
...
dno where u got ur idea where male characters are better for marketing
and besides DA:o had morrigan on the cover that didn't kept anyone from buying it
mb they should start making hermaphrodite protagonists
lets see how they score
i don't think anyone gives a fook about the gender as long as the story is tight :')

[DA_GamerGal]

Sylvianus wrote...

But I agree with you. That's no to me you need to ask the question, but the other female players. Because, me, I love different taste, different perspectives, that male protagonist can be  different from a female protagonist, ( replayability ) and that's why, I am not too fond on the principle about gender neutral even if it doesn't bother me. I can't answer to you, because I don't understand at all myself this logic, but given their number, Bioware can't ignore their will. There are other people who complain as well that femshep for example is not enought like a female, and so, they want to respond to these people too like said someone a long time ago, but, it's difficult, to see really what people really want. It's not easy at all for Bioware on the matter.

No, I don't suppose it is easy for BioWare at all. You really can't please everyone all of the time. And there is no way that a single game can be everything to everybody. So you have to develop a game in such a way as to appeal to a broad variety of people... and I do feel that BioWare does this extremely well.

There may be certain things that BioWare does-or does not do- that I may find irritating (as a female gamer), but it won't stop me from playing their games.  I am worried that maybe they are becoming a little too gender neutral... but I understand the reasoning behind it. And again, not so worried that I would ever stop buying and playing their games.

[DA_GamerGal]

MozartsGhost wrote...

So as well as being able to pick our gender, we should have two completely different play throughs depending on what one we pick? Are men and women really so different?

I honestly didn't find my femhawke to be masculine in any way with her responses. And her voice actor was top notch. I personally don't think there needs to be too much emphasis on gender.

No, I don't think we need to go that far.

It might be nice to have a few subtle differences in how the two genders react to a specific NPC or quest and/or situation... maybe have a few dialogues choices that would depend upon which gender you are playing. I have no idea what the costs would be to do this, or if it can even be done....  just throwing out ideas.

I also think FemHawke's VO was wonderful, by the way.

[Fugiz]

As long as she is not voiced, no problem.

[DA_GamerGal]

TS2Aggie wrote...

How about they make a dress for maleHawke? That way everyone could be happy!

Actually, if you were playing him as a mage and dressed him in robes... he kinda was in a "dress".

[Sylvianus]

krissyjf wrote...

Sylvianus wrote...

But I agree with you. That's no to me you need to ask the question, but the other female players. Because, me, I love different taste, different perspectives, that male protagonist can be  different from a female protagonist, ( replayability ) and that's why, I am not too fond on the principle about gender neutral even if it doesn't bother me. I can't answer to you, because I don't understand at all myself this logic, but given their number, Bioware can't ignore their will. There are other people who complain as well that femshep for example is not enought like a female, and so, they want to respond to these people too like said someone a long time ago, but, it's difficult, to see really what people really want. It's not easy at all for Bioware on the matter.

No, I don't suppose it is easy for BioWare at all. You really can't please everyone all of the time. And there is no way that a single game can be everything to everybody. So you have to develop a game in such a way as to appeal to a broad variety of people... and I do feel that BioWare does this extremely well.

There may be certain things that BioWare does-or does not do- that I may find irritating (as a female gamer), but it won't stop me from playing their games.  I am worried that maybe they are becoming a little too gender neutral... but I understand the reasoning behind it. And again, not so worried that I would ever stop buying and playing their games.

Personally, I think they need to reach a line that can help satisfy both side. Because there are two camps among female players, and even male players. Those who want female heroes who act more like women ( with also different clothes for example ) according to them, and those who prefer they remain absolutely gender neutral.

And both sides have strong thoughts on what should be a femal protagonist.

For me we can find some answers in the behavior allowed in the wheel for example. They may allow certain behaviors that the male protagonist does not have, and the same behaviors as well as the male protagonist, for example, when is kicking a door with his foot.

What is certain is that bioware said they would try to satisfy both sides in Mass Effect 3. We will see the result, but I am confident, and they could have learned from fatal errors in M2.

Modifié par Sylvianus, 19 octobre 2011 - 11:21 .

[maxernst]

krissyjf wrote...

MozartsGhost wrote...

So as well as being able to pick our gender, we should have two completely different play throughs depending on what one we pick? Are men and women really so different?

I honestly didn't find my femhawke to be masculine in any way with her responses. And her voice actor was top notch. I personally don't think there needs to be too much emphasis on gender.

No, I don't think we need to go that far.

It might be nice to have a few subtle differences in how the two genders react to a specific NPC or quest and/or situation... maybe have a few dialogues choices that would depend upon which gender you are playing. I have no idea what the costs would be to do this, or if it can even be done....  just throwing out ideas.

I also think FemHawke's VO was wonderful, by the way.

But they already do that, at least in DA:O and DA2--I haven't seen it in ME, but I've never played Femshep.  For example, if you play a HN, there are subtle differences in the dialogues with the parents, and you have the opportunity to flirt with Duncan (which is very funny!),.  You get the dialogue where Sten is confused by the fact that you're a women, yet you fight.  The CE origin plays quite differently if you're female, just as a few examples.  And, um, you know, being able to marry Anora or Alistair is kind of a significant difference.

The differences are less in DA2, but there are still some, particularly in the romantic lines, and the Gamlen dialogues about your romantic partners.

[Merci357]

Sylvianus wrote...

What is certain is that bioware said they would try to satisfy both sides in Mass Effect 3. We will see the result, but I am confident, and they could have learned from fatal error in M2.

What fatal error? Feeling a bit dramatic? Yes, certain sit animations while wearing the dress were quite off - but for me that's just an indication the dress wasn't the best idea. And the reason they didn't use one in MotA.

I'm not fond of the very girly FemHawke animations, and FemSheps "gorilla" animations aren't the best, either. I'd prefer a neutral middle ground there.

And I also dislike gender exclusive content, beyond a few nods here and there. A good example would be Garrus' recruiting mission, and FemSheps "I bet mine's bigger" line. That's great, and a few of those should be included in any game. Romance options can, of course, be gender exclusive, that's fine.
But beyond that? I'm all for options in dialogue, but these should be options for both genders, allowing both genders to break their perceived gender roles - if the player wants to. And that's key there, for me, player choice, since I don't want to play cliches, but individuals.

Modifié par Merci357, 19 octobre 2011 - 11:31 .

[Sylvianus]

Merci357 wrote...

Sylvianus wrote...

What is certain is that bioware said they would try to satisfy both sides in Mass Effect 3. We will see the result, but I am confident, and they could have learned from fatal error in M2.

What fatal error? Feeling a bit dramatic? Yes, certain sit animations while wearing the dress were quite off - but for me that's just an indication the dress wasn't the best idea. And the reason they didn't use one in MotA.

I'm not fond of the very girly FemHawke animations, and FemSheps "gorilla" animations aren't the best, either. I'd prefer a neutral middle ground there.

And I also dislike gender exclusive content, beyond a few nods here and there. A good example would be Garrus' recruiting mission, and FemSheps "I bet mine's bigger" line. That's great, and a few of those should be included in any game.
But beyond that? I'm all for options in dialogue, but these should be options for both genders, allowing both genders to break their perceived gender roles - if the player wants to. And that's key there, for me, player choice, since I don't want to play cliches, but individuals.

Maybe fatal error was humorous? ( for example shepard who sits like a man with a skirt, yes it was funny )  I need to put smileys all the time for people to understand the subtlety of the words? ( :wizard:^_^ )

And why very girly animation ? Who need that ? It's like saying neutral gender is to act like a man. It's more subtle.

It is a serious and sincere concern of some in the community of women who do not necessarily recognize totally in some of the actions of their female protagonist sometimes, produced by bioware. Fatal issue ? No. But can be taken into account ? Yes. This is an interesting concern even if you disagree.

And please, you could give a practical garment to femhawk, feminine and pretty in the same time, there was no need to give exactly the same as maleHawk. I thought they were very lazy. The garment is not even built for her.

And why would you be bothered by the choices with which you disagree? You should have several options for you to choose, you don't care about others, if they do not suit you. Cliche or not. And the cliche, are a matter of opinions.

Modifié par Sylvianus, 19 octobre 2011 - 11:47 .

[schalafi]

I first played a female in DA2, and also was a Mage. I was satisfied that there were both masculine and feminine outfits to choose from, and had no real problem with dialogue, since I usually used the friendly response. Then I tried playing a male Rogue, and liked the armor, and banter, but did find there were different responses to the same situations for males than for females. I think that is as it should be, I wouldn't like my fem Hawke to curse and spit, nor would I want my male Hawke to wear a dress and fuss with his clothes like the fem Hawke did.

[Merci357]

Sylvianus wrote...

Maybe fatal error was humorous? ( for example shepard who sits like a man with a skirt, yes it was funny )  I need to put smileys all the time for people to understand the subtlety of the words? ( :wizard:^_^ )

If you find a way to include inflection to your posts, that might work as well. Otherwise, said smileys are indeed are useful tool to deliver your implication.

it is a serious and sincere concern of some in the community of women who do not necessarily recognize totally in some of the actions of their female protagonist sometimes, produced by bioware. fatal issue ? No. But can be taken into account? Yes. This is an interesting concern even if you disagree.

I don't disagree. However, as evidently seen here in this topic, it's a fine line there. That's why I said player promted options would help. Just like a ME2 interrupt - I use it when it fits the character, I don't use it in another playthrough. As long as the action is the players choice, everything is fine for me. Isn't that, in essence, role playing?

[Sylvianus]

Merci357 wrote...

Sylvianus wrote...

Maybe fatal error was humorous? ( for example shepard who sits like a man with a skirt, yes it was funny )  I need to put smileys all the time for people to understand the subtlety of the words? ( :wizard:^_^ )

If you find a way to include inflection to your posts, that might work as well. Otherwise, said smileys are indeed are useful tool to deliver your implication.

it is a serious and sincere concern of some in the community of women who do not necessarily recognize totally in some of the actions of their female protagonist sometimes, produced by bioware. fatal issue ? No. But can be taken into account? Yes. This is an interesting concern even if you disagree.

I don't disagree. However, as evidently seen here in this topic, it's a fine line there. That's why I said player promted options would help. Just like a ME2 interrupt - I use it when it fits the character, I don't use it in another playthrough. As long as the action is the players choice, everything is fine for me. Isn't that, in essence, role playing?

1 - ok, understood. The next time I'm kidding, I put a smiley, I promise lol.

2 - I totally agree. Well, I think actually we're on the same line. The ideas I want to promote, are especially options that do not spoil the character of others or their willingness to play as they wish.

Modifié par Sylvianus, 20 octobre 2011 - 12:20 .

[Wolfborn Son]

I don't mind a female protagonist.  I've played female characters since  Baldur's Gate.  That said, I hate sexualized female characters in games.  And the majority of games, even those coming from Bioware, tend to sex up the females.  I wanted to play a female Hawke, but I can't get past the way her hips sway when she walks - seems a little silly for a warrior in plate armour to swagger like she's on a catwalk.  

[Killjoy Cutter]

Wolfborn Son wrote...

I don't mind a female protagonist.  I've played female characters since  Baldur's Gate.  That said, I hate sexualized female characters in games.  And the majority of games, even those coming from Bioware, tend to sex up the females.  I wanted to play a female Hawke, but I can't get past the way her hips sway when she walks - seems a little silly for a warrior in plate armour to swagger like she's on a catwalk.  

That was EA's Holywood-style response to the outcry from FemShep and FemWarden fans who kept begging for "more feminine" animations... 


And if someone actually felt it was important enough, they could go back and find my posts where I predict that calls for "more feminine" animations would result in the female version of the protagonist walking like a drunk **** in 6-inch heals...

Modifié par Killjoy Cutter, 20 octobre 2011 - 01:14 .

[Heimdall]

Having not read the thread and only the OP, it would not matter for me. Previously I only ever played these game with male protagonists, but recently I've been diversifying. For instance, I have chosen a Female rogue for my canon Hawke.  I already know DA will have character customization, and I always feel a near OCD desire to customize my characters with every tool available short of mods. I abhor the use of the default where I can.

So it matters little to me who is on the box.

Modifié par Lord Aesir, 20 octobre 2011 - 01:29 .

[Sylvius the Mad]

Merci357 wrote...

Sylvius the Mad wrote...

The marketing has no material effect on the content of the game. Making buying decisions based on the marketing is lunacy.

Sure, but marketing makes you aware that there is a game that might interest you.

No, it doesn't.  Any similarlty between the marketing material and the truth is merely coincidental.  We cannot predictably draw accurate conclusions about the game from its marketing.

What you say is only true insofar that the marketing makes me aware that the game exists at all.

So, in a sense you are right, making decisions based on marketing is lunacy. But then again, if the marketing fails to spark any interest for a game you happen to enjoy immensely later on, what does that tell us about the quality of said marketing?

The marketing isn't designed to inform you of any details about the game.  The marketing is designed to drive buying decisions.  How it does that is a mystery to me, but it certainly doesn't do that by being informative or truthful.

[DamnThoseDisplayNames]

Female protagonists can sometimes feel 'wrong' if you parachute them into the same situation without making any adaptations.

I agree, and my experience tells me that, overall, and yes I am making a general statement here, women prefer social solutions of roleplaying situations to combat-oriented. It's always hard to please a female gamer in male-driven module.

How about they make a dress for maleHawke? That way everyone could be happy!

Some women would like it.
Most of them, the loudest, would cry at how ****ly and bad the dress is, and that they should've had a choice between many dresses.
And surely some would accuse Bioware of sexism because they want to be treated equaly and neutraly to males and real women never wear dresses and all that ****.

I would be happy because I think pants are Satan and all women must wear only colorful skirts and medieval dresses, though white dresses are of course superb to every other dresses and..
..right, I'll just get myself outa here slowly.

Sure, but marketing makes you aware that there is a game that might interest you.

If you are passionate about your hobby, like CRPG's, and have good taste, the only awareness you need you get from other RPG maniacs and boards and everything.

Modifié par DamnThoseDisplayNames, 20 octobre 2011 - 03:07 .

[Firky]

DamnThoseDisplayNames wrote...

I agree, and my experience tells me that, overall, and yes I am making a general statement here, women prefer social solutions of roleplaying situations to combat-oriented. It's always hard to please a female gamer in male-driven module.
 

*spits out coffee*

I'm not disputing it, because it may be true, as a generalisation, but the fact that DAII kicked my lady ass totally endeared me to the game. (Origins was cool, but ultimately too easy, combat wise, for my taste.)

[DamnThoseDisplayNames]

I'm not disputing it, because it may be true, as a generalisation, but the fact that DAII kicked my lady ass totally endeared me to the game. (Origins was cool, but ultimately too easy, combat wise, for my taste.)

Tabletop or tabletop-like experience is different from PC-gaming as you can't reload, and death usually is a big thing. I had girls cry because their character ended up dead, in a good way ("bwaaah twas so saaaad, she was like.. and she believed and wanted and had dreams but.. aaah twas so saaaaad"), not in the i-would-never-ever-roleplay, of course (though, uh, that happened too). Males? They just tend to roll next character to kick my sorry DM ass.
Males are easy.

Modifié par DamnThoseDisplayNames, 20 octobre 2011 - 04:35 .

[Sylvius the Mad]

DamnThoseDisplayNames wrote...

Tabletop or tabletop-like experience is different from PC-gaming as you can't reload, and death usually is a big thing. I had girls cry because their character ended up dead, in a good way ("bwaaah twas so saaaad, she was like.. and she believed and wanted and had dreams but.. aaah twas so saaaaad"), not in the i-would-never-ever-roleplay, of course (though, uh, that happened too). Males? They just tend to roll next character to kick my sorry DM ass.
Males are easy.

By your definition, I roleplay like a girl.

[Uccio]

I would not play female. I didn´t do so in Origins or other games nor I have bought any other game with female as the main character. I did play tomb raider though but thats not a rpg so there could have been a penguin as the players character and the result would have been the same.

Modifié par Ukki, 20 octobre 2011 - 06:06 .

[DamnThoseDisplayNames]

hehe sorry, your so robotic sometimes it's hard not to nitpick on that

But beneath that he has a delicate soul like a petal of a beautiful flower.












Heheheheh.

Modifié par DamnThoseDisplayNames, 20 octobre 2011 - 06:09 .

[Shadow of Light Dragon]

DamnThoseDisplayNames wrote...

I'm not disputing it, because it may be true, as a generalisation, but the fact that DAII kicked my lady ass totally endeared me to the game. (Origins was cool, but ultimately too easy, combat wise, for my taste.)

Tabletop or tabletop-like experience is different from PC-gaming as you can't reload, and death usually is a big thing. I had girls cry because their character ended up dead, in a good way ("bwaaah twas so saaaad, she was like.. and she believed and wanted and had dreams but.. aaah twas so saaaaad"), not in the i-would-never-ever-roleplay, of course (though, uh, that happened too). Males? They just tend to roll next character to kick my sorry DM ass.
Males are easy.

*trying to decide how the second comment relates to the first...*