360 réponses à ce sujet

[Gokuthegrate]

Whenever I play a game where I can pick the gender I always go for the female first.
If the game only had a female lead I would most likely enjoy the game as well.
There are 2 main reasons why I pick female. First most stories revolve around guys for the most part so I enjoy the change. Second is that I love badass chicks.
(would of preferred if Femshep were in the movie but...)

[Eudaemonium]

Gokuthegrate wrote...

(would of preferred if Femshep were in the movie but...)

Part of me is quite surprised she isn't, since 'badass action chick' seems to be fairly in. Most of me is totally unsurprised.

[Sengoku no Maou]

krissyjf wrote...

If Hawke had been created/written and marketed as a female protagonist instead of a male one, would you still have bought and played Dragon Age2?

Without a shadow of doubt.

[Sgt Bilko]

I'm not fussed i usually play as a male cos i am one but i like the female option to explore a different scenario, besides if Hawke was a Female hell yes, i'd still buy it
woman with a 2 metre long sword hehe awesome

[SteveGarbage]

Gender of the main character doesn't matter to me as long as the gameplay backs up that its a game worth playing. For example, I love Final Fantasy X but hated Final Fantasy X-2. It's not because X-2 had an all female cast, it was because the game was frankly just kind of stupid.

I usually play male first (because I am male) but in BioWare games I usually play a female character on a second playthrough in order to experience other romances etc. The only time I play female first is in Star Wars: Knights of the Old Republic 2 (not BioWare, but I still count it as such), because the canon Exile is female.

I definitely support equality in marketing. I fail to understand why marketers continue to market to an almost exclusively male audience - either going with "badass Vin Diesel-esque male characters ---> (http://xbox360.ign.c.../1177659p1.html) or going with "big boobs, floozy chainmail bikini female" ---> (http://pc.ign.com/ar.../1143124p1.html).

I will say this, I would be LESS likely to purchase the game if the cover art featured aforementioned big boobs half-naked female protagonist. It's senseless and stupid and I've really started to take a hard-line against pointless objectification in video games.

However if it's a franchise I'm really into (like DA) I'm likely to buy it no matter what type of marketing is used. For example, if the main character of DA3 turned out to be a female Chantry Seeker, I'd be fine with that.

[Killjoy Cutter]

Foolsfolly wrote...

Joy Divison wrote...

I'm curious how exactly the gameplay or plot would be different for a female protagonist as opposed to a male one?

"Shouldn't you should be finding your Fem Sheps and female wardens jarring because they think/talk/act like men..."

What exactly does this mean? How do men think/talk/act?

Should Bioware include flags to trigger a female protagonist to ask for directions to the cave of evil? Or for males to burp loudly after drinking an ale? I guess I'm not seeing the point...

Shepard does walk like a man. And sits like a man. Which is hilarious if you have her in the dress you get from Kasumi's mission. She sits with her legs wide up while wearing a miniskirt.

That said.... this is very delicate and can be taken wrong very easily. But men and women are different. Gender identity is important in how we view ourselves. And we behave differently because, like it or not this is fact, men and women are treated differently.

So it follows that playing a male of female character should have differences. They shouldn't all sound the exact same. But the threat here would be in making a character more feminine they actually pander, play into sterotypes, and generally invite loads of probably honest criticism. So the safest route is to play the two genders as complete and total equals where they both say the same things.

I liked how Origins handled gender, personally. It changed how some specific NPCs saw you but you never had dialogue that was insultingly girlie (well there's a comment about shoes with Leliana but the boys can say that too).

I'd like it if gender changed how the world saw you but they remained with the PC being the same.

The actual solution to the sitting issue is to not put Shep in a skirt...  the one thing I really dislike about Kasumi's LM. 

[soignee]

Well, judging by how many people say they vastly prefer male!Hawke and played them first in their first playthroughs, I'd say marketing pretty much did it's job. A lot of effort was put into the default Garrett Hawke's face/character, and it shows.

Default Marian Hawke was just a female version of (who was originally based on a Bioware employer, I do believe) Garrett Hawke; she didn't even get her own model, but Garrett made feminine. The concept I don't find bad, but couldn't they have gotten a random female employer to base her face on so it looked less uncanny valley?

Same theory as default!M.Shep; Mark Vanderloo was the poster child, and F!Shep was, um... well....

[tmp7704]

soignee wrote...

Well, judging by how many people say they vastly prefer male!Hawke and played them first in their first playthroughs, I'd say marketing pretty much did it's job. A lot of effort was put into the default Garrett Hawke's face/character, and it shows.

Played male Hawke simply because the troll Ladyhawke sounds just unbearably snotty ;/

edit, re: the "she didn't even get her own model" part though, not sure if that's the case or had any actual impact... considering i only ever saw highly positive words about female Hawke's appearance.

Modifié par tmp7704, 21 octobre 2011 - 03:39 .

[Psearo]

My first play through of an RPG with gender choice is always with a male human character.
Then I'll go female human, then available non-human races afterwards.

Did give my mum a giggle when I played a fem-Hawke for the first time though.
One of her favourite films was Ladyhawke with Rutger Hauer, Michelle Pfieffer and Matthew Broderick.

[DRTJR]

The gender of the Character on the box matters not to me.

[Wozearly]

Killjoy Cutter wrote...

Foolsfolly wrote...

I liked how Origins handled gender, personally. It changed how some specific NPCs saw you but you never had dialogue that was insultingly girlie (well there's a comment about shoes with Leliana but the boys can say that too).

I'd like it if gender changed how the world saw you but they remained with the PC being the same.

The actual solution to the sitting issue is to not put Shep in a skirt...  the one thing I really dislike about Kasumi's LM. 

Well, that's one solution - and consistent with making a relatively gender neutral protagonist.

I think Foolsfolly's point about considering whether the world sees you differently, and whether your character has the potential to think and act consistently with their background in the world (be that female, or dwarf, or whatever) is actually the better solution, particularly if the world doesn't treat men and women as exact equals.

From memory, in both ME and DA, the world story is one of gender equality, so it would be tricky to do this without having to resort to stereotypes in many cases (although not necessarily skirt-wearing).

Perhaps an equivalent example is that being an apostate mage in DA2 doesn't actually attract the attention of the templars. Essentially they treat your character in a class-neutral way. Shopkeepers et al don't look at a rogue and think "Hmm...watch the purse strings". Bruisers don't look at a warrior and think "You know, actually, he *is* bigger than me. Assaulting him might be a bad idea". Templars turn their eyes off when apostates unleash fireballs of doom right in front of them.

It avoids any issues around "Dammit, being a mage is annoying - the templars keep hassling me. No fair!" but it also creates a sense of dislocation...because actually, in reality, they should be hassling you.

[craigdolphin]

For myself, I only ever play a male. But if DA/ME were marketed with a female protagonist, that would not reduce my interest in it one iota as long as I could still play as a male.

If anything, being a straight male, having a good looking women on the box would make me more interested in finding out more about it. (Yes, I know that's likely a bit shallow. Sorry. It's the truth though.) I also don't ever dabble in SS romances. I am very happy they're available for those who want them, but I'm not inclined that way and it would feel very weird to me to play such a role.

[Ryuukishi]

I preferred the female Hawke to the male Hawke anyway. So if anything I would have liked it better had they put more focus on female Hawke.

[Eudaemonium]

soignee wrote...

Well, judging by how many people say they vastly prefer male!Hawke and played them first in their first playthroughs, I'd say marketing pretty much did it's job. A lot of effort was put into the default Garrett Hawke's face/character, and it shows.

Default Marian Hawke was just a female version of (who was originally based on a Bioware employer, I do believe) Garrett Hawke; she didn't even get her own model, but Garrett made feminine. The concept I don't find bad, but couldn't they have gotten a random female employer to base her face on so it looked less uncanny valley?

Same theory as default!M.Shep; Mark Vanderloo was the poster child, and F!Shep was, um... well....

I always thought the whole "Hawke is based on Mark Darrah" (lead producer on DA2)  line was intended to be a joke, considering they said female Hawke was based on him too. Thata nd they look nothing alike short of having a beard.

That aside, I've never really noticed much wrong from femHawke's face. There are one or two oddities of expression, but they happen in just about every Bioware game, usually a lot more frequently. I thought they obviously put a lot of effort into making her both strong and attractive, and clearly spent a lot more effort on her than the ME team did on default femShep (pre-ME3). Basically, I don't see her as any more uncanny valley than other Bioware characters.

There is a reason I have multiple default femHawke playthroughs, though. I like her appearance a lot.

[MassStorm]

Cannot say....i prefer to choose though if the female protagonist is well designed in terms of physical and psychological appearance then i would certainly buy it, though i would not buy it from Day 1 because i probably would have tried a demo... you never know i really liked Lightning of FF13.

[bigSarg]

I personally play mostly female characters, unless I'm playing an MMO, I think for the most part that the female voice acting is a lot better and I've always liked to watch movies with a female main character , love to see a hot woman kicking the crap out of guys twice her size. I think that the facial expressions of the female characters fit more with the dialogue, better than the male as well. Honestly I think Bioware spends more time on the female characters than the male, even though they use a male character for marketing purposes. So honestly I have to disagree with the OP, I think Bioware did better with the female Hawke than the male.

[themonty72]

bigSarg wrote...

I personally play mostly female characters, unless I'm playing an MMO, I think for the most part that the female voice acting is a lot better and I've always liked to watch movies with a female main character , love to see a hot woman kicking the crap out of guys twice her size. I think that the facial expressions of the female characters fit more with the dialogue, better than the male as well. Honestly I think Bioware spends more time on the female characters than the male, even though they use a male character for marketing purposes. So honestly I have to disagree with the OP, I think Bioware did better with the female Hawke than the male.

I agree

[PPR223]

There are quite alot of men who won't play a game that seemingly has only a female protagonist, afterall some people have never played rpgs before and won't know about the gender choice. Therefore it is a safer choice using a male character, as its widely known that games sell in larger numbers to the male demographic than female.

[Get Magna Carter]

I am male
I have more than 60 games with either a fixed female protagonist or a choice of characters with no male option (Parasite Eve 2, Tomb Raider, R Racing Evolution, Arcana Heart 3, Venetica, Trapt, Bayonetta, etc)
When playing games with a choice I usually pick female on the first playthrough (except for games like Harvest moon or the Sims)

[suprhomre]

 I would say that I might have skip DA2 if I haven't the choice to play both male and female and was just stucked with one gender(Female). Mostly because I hate FemShep, I don't like the voice at all, feels so over acting. I prefer Mark Meer's voice. In DA2 however I actually prefer FemHawke more it's nothing wrong with MaleHawke but FemHawkes voice is my choice. This is also why I don't play Lara Craft (not my thing) but the new one seems nice I might give it a try. In short it depends on the story, voice, graphic, gameplay and so on depending on my purchase. 

[Arivle]

To OP: *giggle* I may be a weirdo but for fantasy game an abiility to play for *female sorceress* is a must have feature for me. if I can't do it, I don't buy the game. The Witcher 2 was the only exception because it was too great game to pass but even there it ruined my fun a lot and I didn't even bother to replay it for the another path because the main character simply didn't suit me. And in general I prefer to always pick for female characters if possible.

And now the final surprise: I'm a normal, adult _MALE_ in rl. Why I prefer to play games with females? Because I love strong femme fatales. I look at my character as at my "heroine" I can love and admire and I enjoy to watch and shape her (heroic) story. :-) I also love the contrast of vulnerability and power for what a sorceress is the excellent model. Physically weak but thanks to magic immensely strong. And wicked on top. ;-)

Modifié par Arivle, 26 octobre 2011 - 08:38 .

[Darth Executor]

[quote]krissyjf wrote...

I have a question for all the male gamers out there:

If Hawke had been created/written and marketed as a female protagonist instead of a male one, would you still have bought and played Dragon Age2?[/quote]

I just got DA2 because it's bargain bin priced, which is all it's really worth. Not as bad as the demo was though, I'd give it a solid C. It's a mediocre game. Regarding your question, yes, I would. I usually play female characters anyway.

[quote]Would you buy any game of BioWare's (or any other developer) that featured a female protagonist?[/quote]

Yes.

[quote]Sadly, I feel that is how most male gamers and most male game developers and writers feel. That somehow if the main character is female and not a male, that it will not be marketable- that it won't make the company enough money.[/quote]

It might be true. They'd know better than us.

[quote]So is this how male gamers feel? That a female character-driven story in a game is not playable in the same way that a male character is? That the game would somehow be less, if the PC was a female? [/quote]

"Male gamers" are not a monolithic group, so asking us questions as if we were one is pointless.

[quote]Correct me if I am wrong, but don't most gamers- including male gamers- play a game for the storyline,[/quote]

I pity anyone who plays Bioware's recent offerings (particularly the DA series) for the storyline, which have to be some of the most cliched, boring and all around bad storylines I've had the displeasure of encountering since Knights of the Old Republic 2.

[quote]the challenge of combat,[/quote]

The combat is ruined by having too many trash mobs and too few memorable encounters. It's certainly not challenging apart from trying to pay attention to it so you don't get killed 99% of the time.

[quote]and because the characters are rich and well-developed?[/quote]

None of the characters are rich and well-devleoped.

[quote]So if the game is all of these things, and the protagonist just happens to be a female, why wouldn't you play it?[/quote]

It's not all of those things, and even if it was, a lot of people like a main character they can relate to. I don't, however a lot of women (including you) complain that they can't relate to a male protagonist so I'm not sure why you're demanding that "male gamers" would adhere to a principle you yourself don't hold.
Female gamers have had to do this for years. Most of the games I own have only male protagonists.

[quote]Maybe this isn't a fair question, since BioWare's RPGs all give us a chance to create either a male or female PC, so it could be argued that it is a moot point.

But I would say, simply because BioWare gives we female gamers an option to play as a female PC, doesn't mean that the game was developed and written with the female PC in mind.[/quote]

My first playthrough right now is as femHawke and I see nothing male about her. 

[quote]For once, I would like to see BioWare develop/center one of their Dragon Age games around a female character- around a female protagonist- and let the male PC be the option.[/quote]

What does this mean? You want DA3 to revolve around baking cookies or something? There's nothing about DA2 that is particularly male-centric, other than a focus on combat, and given the nature of the game that's hardly a fair issue to complain about.

[quote]For once, I would like to see an entire marketing campaign centered around the female protagonist, instead of the male one.[/quote]

For once I would like to see people not care about a company's marketing.

[quote]Game developers seem to be forgetting that female gamers make up as much as 40% of the overall gamers, and we all don't play Farmville and Simms.
[/quote]

A lot of people seem to be forgetting that they don't speak for entire demographics.

[Bryy_Miller]

I honestly don't consider the default gender to be the Canon Gender (even though it really is). So it really doesn't matter to me. I play both equally.

[DamnThoseDisplayNames]

What does this mean? You want DA3 to revolve around baking cookies or something?

I want to bake cookies

Would be a decent solution for qunari invasion

[Cyberstrike nTo]

krissyjf wrote...

I have a question for all the male gamers out there:

If Hawke had been created/written and marketed as a female protagonist instead of a male one, would you still have bought and played Dragon Age2?

As a man I bought DA2 and have only played as a female Hawke after playing the male in the demo and not enjoying it.

Would you buy any game of BioWare's (or any other developer) that featured a female protagonist? Or would you pass it by and simply mark the game as a "girl's game" and thus 'unworthy" of playing?

I would actually be MORE inclined to buy it.  
I have played both Mass Effect games a female Shepard over 20 times and only 3 times as a male (after Lair of the Shadow Broker I decided that I can no longer play as a male Shepard). In Fable 2 and Fable 3 I have played both games only as a female characters, the same with Fallout 3, The Elder Scrolls IV: Oblivion, Jade Empire, Star Wars: Knights of the Old Republic and I only played and beaten Dragon Age: Origins one time as a male character and that was the most uncomfortable play through I had on that game. 

If I have a choice in my PC's gender I will most likely play as a female 99% of the time and will only play as a male character to get an achievement and/or trophy (like DA:O's "Wiltch Gone Wild")

Sadly, I feel that is how most male gamers and most male game developers and writers feel. That somehow if the main character is female and not a male, that it will not be marketable- that it won't make the company enough money.

So is this how male gamers feel? That a female character-driven story in a game is not playable in the same way that a male character is? That the game would somehow be less, if the PC was a female?

Correct me if I am wrong, but don't most gamers- including male gamers- play a game for the storyline, the challenge of combat, and because the characters are rich and well-developed? So if the game is all of these things, and the protagonist just happens to be a female, why wouldn't you play it? Female gamers have had to do this for years. Most of the games I own have only male protagonists.

Maybe this isn't a fair question, since BioWare's RPGs all give us a chance to create either a male or female PC, so it could be argued that it is a moot point.

But I would say, simply because BioWare gives we female gamers an option to play as a female PC, doesn't mean that the game was developed and written with the female PC in mind. For once, I would like to see BioWare develop/center one of their Dragon Age games around a female character- around a female protagonist- and let the male PC be the option. For once, I would like to see an entire marketing campaign centered around the female protagonist, instead of the male one.

Game developers seem to be forgetting that female gamers make up as much as 40% of the overall gamers, and we all don't play Farmville and Simms.

Thoughts? Comments? Answers?

Edit: Removed incorrect word and inserted the correct one. Should probably proof-read before submitting. Thank you so much Cutlass Jack for so graciously pointing out the error.

I played the demo to Bayonetta and I wasn't impressed by the gameplay. I didn't like the last the Final Fantasy that had a female lead because I wasn't impressed by the gameplay. I haven't played a Tomb Raider game since the second game came out because I wasn't impressed by the gameplay. 

While I generally enjoyed playing female characters more in RPGs, action. adventure games, that doesn't mean I'm going to buy a game just because it has an attractive woman on the box art (granted it will more likely get my attention first) but if I don't enjoy the game, then the lead character's gender doesn't really matter.

This pretty much applies to all media in general not just video games.

In games such like the Dragon Age, Mass Effect, The Elder Scrolls, Fallout, and Fable series what I really like is having the ability to chose my character's gender.