360 réponses à ce sujet

[Hathur]

Suprez30 wrote...

To be honest I have a hard time playing has a female protagonist in video game. They seem to be most of the time out of place. Like in Skyrim .  I`m going to play a Nord. A Rugged Looking Nord  . A Vagabond who fight dragon should not look like Miss California .

So If i can make a woman that look like a warrior ..Sure. Woman protagonist are most of the time Ultra-Sexualized and that just get on my nerve. It's not really just  their beauty .  But they just don't look like Warrior. They look like hollywood actress in romance B-Movie.

Where are the scar? The filth? The rugged metal and the unwashed hair? Nah they always look 'perfect' .
Vanity full blast.

Well, In Elder Scrolls Oblivion I made a nord female that was heavy-set, hard stony features and looked like she spent many years working a forge... she was no princess by any stretch... I loved being able to play a tough lady in that game that didn't look like a super model. Pretty sure Skyrim will allow it too, so there are games that don't force you into playing the stereotypical super-model heroine.

[DA_GamerGal]

bleetman wrote...

As far as Bioware in concerned, you get a choice of gender anyway. They're already doing female protaganists, do them convincingly for the most part, and have been for years. But yes, I do wish they'd stop acting as if their female main characters didn't exist, and I imagine I still would regardless of what gender my own characters were. The femshep trailer should be interesting in that regard.

This.

I think BioWare has done an incredible job in providing us with extremely well written female characters. And I applaud them for giving their players a choice of gender- I only wish that more game companies would follow suit. BioWare seems to be a company that has always been willing to push the boundaries in gaming and has done some amazing things. Which is why it is so frustrating to me, that they still overlook the female protagonists, and act like they don't exist. Even their own website for DA2 does not have Female Hawke on it. Why couldn't they prominently feature both Hawke's on it?  Because despite having talented female writers, editors, ect, they are still mainly a male-centric company. Like every other game company.

And as far as FemShep, if ME3 wasn't the last game installment, I rather doub't she would have been featured so prominently. They would have centered everything around the male icon.

[DA_GamerGal]

casadechrisso wrote...

Given the choice, I tend to play females most of the time and I'm rather unhappy when a RPG doesn't give me that choice (Geralt being a rare exception).
Why BW always uses male protagonists in marketing is beyond me, I hate those guys on the boxes and bought the games despite of them, not because.
Actually, most Action-RPGs use iconic females on the game boxes and in Ads (countless F2P, Spellforce, whatever) even if you're stuck with a male character (e.g. Two Worlds). Now, I wouldn't like to see one of those elves in chainmail bikini on a BW game box because it simply looks cheap, but I think it's about time for BW to put a strong female protagonist on the box who doesn't just fulfill the "sex sells" cliché.

BioWare probably uses the male protagonist for the same reason that other game companies do- it comes down to sales figures. They assume that their game will not be marketable unless the main character is a male. I would love to know how game companies come up with the statistics that support this.

[Sealy]

Huh weird I actually considered this and I am female, I actually feel a little more wary buying the game if it had been marketed with a Fem!Hawke. Not sure why but there you go.

[DA_GamerGal]

FedericoV wrote...

But in an RPG it would feel akward, because set charachter or not, I still see our avatars as a pen and paper gamer: it's my charachter. Sometime I'm free to create it from scratch. Sometimes I create it in coperation with the master. But it's my charachter and simpy put I'm not able to enjoy roleplaying a woman.

And as much as I dislike romances in general, they are an integral part of Bioware games since BG2 and it would feel horrible for me to play one with a set female charachter. It's not a problem connected to the sex in itself but to my ability to enjoy the experience of roleplaying a woman charachter: I do not feel it.

You have a valid point.

In all the ME and DA games, I always choose to play as the female protagonist, because I can relate to a female character better than to a male. I did try to play as MShepard once, but I never finished my playthrough,because it felt fake to me. My Shephard is a female. As far as I am concerned, MShep does not exist. Same thing with my Hawke. Hawke is a female, as far as I am concerned. So I can completely understand where you are coming from.

The funny thing is, when I'm not given the choice of gender, I have no problem playing as the male protagonist. I have no problem getting into the character's head and immersing myself in the game. But if there is a choice of playing as a male or a female- and I play as a female first- I can't then go back and play as the male. It doesn't work for me.

[DamnThoseDisplayNames]

In my small, but full of gaming 23 (week till 24) years of life spawn, I never encountered a male gamer who had problems with playing a female protagonist, be it the 90's koolkids smashing cacodemons in Doom just to make an amazon party in M&M afterwards, or teenagers riding Rynn on a dragon in Drakan, or even my own father running as a chick in Ultima Online and many other MMORPG's after it.
I remember King's Quest VII being one of my favorite games as a kid, and man, you really can't go more oldschool feminine on a gamer then KQ VII: playing as a disney princess singing about freedom and turned into a goblin to be saved by her old mother afterwards. That's some heavy feminine stuff on you!
And don't start me on internet roleplaying boards and chats. You can't (well, usually) play as a female in a tabletop session, so I would betray my fellow roleplaying bros and tell a secret - a lot of males tend to create female characters and play them incognito that way out of simple curiosity, or to try and roleplay a woman of their, hehe, dreams. Yeah, chicks do that to, by the way, in opposite. Crossgender roleplaying can be a hot topic amidst DM's, full of stories and lulz.
I love Hayao Miyazaki movies. Media needs more female protagonists. However, I don't want to see them to try and get into men's shoes without any subtlety. I'm not interested in playing Conan who had his dick cut off. That's just as old as playing a regular Conan. Female protagonist should't be a game lead just to break cliches and grab some fangirls to milk them for money. Make them intelligent, make them courageous, make them a person (like, say Kate Walker was), and you got my handful of bucks for a RPG with a lead like that.
Overall, OP is prejudious against male gamers here, it's OK though, I can understand why.

Modifié par DamnThoseDisplayNames, 17 octobre 2011 - 09:49 .

[Quinnzel]

If an RPG gives me the option: Ill play as a dude most of the time. Occasionally, Ill make a few female characters to try out/mess around with, but I usually give it a shot. I currently have 14 Hawkes, 11 of which are Male, 3 of which are female. Compared to my Shepards (9 Male, 2 Female) and my Wardens (8 Male, no females)

In DA2 and Mass Effect, I can't connect with my Female Sheps and Hawkes. There's been moments when I almost have, but I think my slight dislike for the FemShep and LadyHawke VO's just pull at the opposite thread, jarring me away from the moment. That, coupled with my complete lack of interest in the Male LI's just make it a grating experience for me (granted, KotOR had Juhani as strictly F/F, DA1 had Lelliana, DA2 solved it with the whole 'everybody loves everybody' and ME has Liara, so that helped me enjoy the experience more)

I cant say I play an abundance of strictly Female protagonist games, I've played my fair share of Tomb Raider, Mirrors Edge, Bayonetta (a lot of Baynoetta actually), but not much else springs to mind. Would I buy a Female centric BioWare game? Sure, if the story was good (and I was able to romance another woman) There would probably be no difference to me than, say, playing Geralt or Adam Jensen.

Whats peculiar is that in PnP Dungeons and Dragons, I have both a male (Bard) and a female (Fighter/Cleric), and there I totally love my Female 'Battlemaiden' over my sly Bard. In WoW, my main level 80-odd Paladin was female, tanked and armoured to all hell, and all my dudes were spare bank slots. Even weirder, when I've been playing Gears of War 3 recently, I've wholly devoted myself to playing with Sam(antha) Byrne (voiced by the ever awesome Claudia Black...so that migth have something to do with it) in multiplayer/horde.

I think it really just comes down to the sort of person actually playing the game, and not how they market the game, because, quite frankly, only rather silly people trust the marketting at face value than check it out themselves.

Modifié par Quinnzel, 17 octobre 2011 - 09:50 .

[TheJediSaint]

krissyjf wrote...

casadechrisso wrote...

Given the choice, I tend to play females most of the time and I'm rather unhappy when a RPG doesn't give me that choice (Geralt being a rare exception).
Why BW always uses male protagonists in marketing is beyond me, I hate those guys on the boxes and bought the games despite of them, not because.
Actually, most Action-RPGs use iconic females on the game boxes and in Ads (countless F2P, Spellforce, whatever) even if you're stuck with a male character (e.g. Two Worlds). Now, I wouldn't like to see one of those elves in chainmail bikini on a BW game box because it simply looks cheap, but I think it's about time for BW to put a strong female protagonist on the box who doesn't just fulfill the "sex sells" cliché.

BioWare probably uses the male protagonist for the same reason that other game companies do- it comes down to sales figures. They assume that their game will not be marketable unless the main character is a male. I would love to know how game companies come up with the statistics that support this.

Well to be fair, I think Bioware actually does try to market female PC's for there games, they're just more subtle about them than they are with guys.  Remember that they just did an internet poll to choose the default femshep model, which had the nice side affect of generating extra publisty for ME3.  Similarly, prior to the release of DA2, Bioware would tease showing off Femhawke in order to drum up intrest in the game.  So yes, it's usually a guy on the box art, but with more than a few strong hints that's there's a girl behind the cover.

Modifié par TheJediSaint, 17 octobre 2011 - 09:57 .

[Mykel54]

It depends, one of the reason why male gamers avoid female characters in games is because they don´t feel comfortable in their shoes. Would you as a woman identify yourself with a male character? It is possible, but less likely.

You have to be a rpg player at heart to be able to not make the character "your own reflection in the game". I have lost the count of the number of times people on these forums post things like "I romanced leliana/alistair/miranda/garrus etc.", when in reality it is shepard or the warden who is having the romance. I even read one interview when the guy asked: "Can i romance Miranda in ME3?", I mean sure, i get the question, but it makes one wonder if people always assume that shepard is some kinf of representation of them in the game. Many people feel discomfortable doing "evil" things in the game, or simply things that are agaisnt what their political beliefs. Not many can, or enjoy, roleplaying a character that do things they would consider wrong, stupid, or simply evil.

Many people like to reflect themselves in the characters that they play, if they are male, they will play a male character because they don´t like being treated like a woman or being hit by men. The same applies to female gamers, they want an interesting female character to identify with. The fact is that the gaming industry have been since very recently dominated by males, and therefore the male protagonist is the priority. The same thing happens wit other industries where women are dominant, like cosmetics or fashion. I think it makes sense as a game developer, to make sure you cater to the majority of your public first.

Bioware games are different in the fact that they try to catter not only to the majority (straigth males) but to the rest of gamers as well, so that is why they put time into a female protagonists or same sex romances. I think that if anything, female gamers should be grateful that bioware is taking steps towards that direction, even if they are small steps or you think they could be better. A lot of other game companies simply don´t care and cattter to the majority because that is where the safe money is.

[TheJediSaint]

Of course, here's one way to look at it. Most companies may see male gamers as safe money, but Bioware likley views female gamers as a vast, untapped market. Girl-money is just as good as guy-money, after all.

Modifié par TheJediSaint, 17 octobre 2011 - 10:03 .

[Firky]

Mykel54 wrote...
Bioware games are different in the fact that they try to catter not only to the majority (straigth males) but to the rest of gamers as well, so that is why they put time into a female protagonists or same sex romances. I think that if anything, female gamers should be grateful that bioware is taking steps towards that direction, even if they are small steps or you think they could be better. A lot of other game companies simply don´t care and cattter to the majority because that is where the safe money is.

I don't disagree with anything you wrote.

Except I don't think female gamers (and I am one) "should feel grateful." I guess I'd argue that fair consideration for the female audience "should" (I don't like that word) just be an intrinsic part of all gaming.

I'm not whinging about it in the slightest. I've gotten used to ignoring chainmail bikinis and (right up until DA2) I always picked male protagonist first because, historically, they tend to have more content. Origins changed me around on that, when I realised on a second playthru that female protagonist got exactly the same treatment.

But, the distinction is that you can feel comfortable with what you've got but also aspire to something better, without being grateful for something that "should" already be there, if you get what I mean.

As to putting female Hawke on the box, I think it would have been cool to see both standing back to back, or something like that.

[DA_GamerGal]

uberdowzen wrote...

No, quite the opposite in fact, I want more game's with female protagonists who aren't sexualised. I'd happily play a Bioware game where you were forced to play as a female.

What I am put off by is games with a female protagonist (or just female characters) who are obviously put in their for guys to oggle. I honestly just find that kind of thing awkward (and I suspect I'm not alone).

I agree with this 100%.  Why some game developers feel the need to write female characters as nothing more than "eye candy" for male gamers, is beyond me.

[Ceoilte]

Yes I still would have bought it, male or female doesn't come into it so much as decent characterisation for me. Having a choice of either sex for the same protagonist in char selection is something I like though.

[JamieCOTC]

I don't really care who is on the cover, but being able to create a character is paramount. I play both genders and as a writer I can get into the headspace of a snarky fHawke, a Paladin mWarden, or a Renegade mShep while leaving myself behind. I never play as myself and never will. Even in D&D I always tried something very different from my own personality and morality. It's more fun that way, at least for me.

[DA_GamerGal]

Firky wrote...

As to putting female Hawke on the box, I think it would have been cool to see both standing back to back, or something like that.

 
This.

This is my main point for this thread. Why can't both sexes be portrayed equally when it comes to marketing? Why must the female protagonist always take the backseat when it comes to the development of the game and when it's time to promote and market said game?

It comes down to attitudes, I suppose. When a female gamer complains about being regulated to sitting at the back of the bus, she is told "Why are you complaining? At least you have been allowed on the bus." (Okay.. so it's not as bad as that, but you hopefully you get my point).

[Pzykozis]

Eh...? There's people that would actually not play a game if it was a <insert gender> character?

Bloody hell that's.... "interesting".

I love my Mirror's Edge and my Deus Ex far too much to care about dangly bits, that coincidentally don't even exist.

[DA_GamerGal]

Mykel54 wrote...

Bioware games are different in the fact that they try to catter not only to the majority (straigth males) but to the rest of gamers as well, so that is why they put time into a female protagonists or same sex romances. I think that if anything, female gamers should be grateful that bioware is taking steps towards that direction, even if they are small steps or you think they could be better. A lot of other game companies simply don´t care and cattter to the majority because that is where the safe money is.

I'm not sure that female gamers like myself should feel "grateful", for anything. I think "appreciate" would be a better term. I appreciate the fact that BioWare understands that it's just not males that purchase and play their games, and they have tried to develop their games with that fact in mind.

I just feel that BioWare should not be afraid to take things to the next level:To develop, market and promote a game that features the female protagonist first- rather than the male one.

[Kingthlayer]

As long as the choice is there I don't really care, and even if it's only female, I still wouldn't care as long as the game is good.

As for the marketing, that's largely irrelevant IMO, if I feel like buying a game I'll buy it.

[DA_GamerGal]

DamnThoseDisplayNames wrote...

Overall, OP is prejudious against male gamers here, it's OK though, I can understand why.

Hmm.. I am curious why you think that.

I don't think I'm prejudice against male gamers at all. Why would I be?

I do think that game developers make games with male gamers in mind, but that doesn't make me prejudice. That just makes me realistic.

[DrFumb1ezX]

krissyjf wrote...

Firky wrote...

As to putting female Hawke on the box, I think it would have been cool to see both standing back to back, or something like that.

 
This.

This is my main point for this thread. Why can't both sexes be portrayed equally when it comes to marketing? Why must the female protagonist always take the backseat when it comes to the development of the game and when it's time to promote and market said game?

It comes down to attitudes, I suppose. When a female gamer complains about being regulated to sitting at the back of the bus, she is told "Why are you complaining? At least you have been allowed on the bus." (Okay.. so it's not as bad as that, but you hopefully you get my point).

Well, since it's a $60 ticket, I really hope you wouldn't just accept that. That'd be insulting.

Also, there is still sexism in today's world. It's getting better, but I still wish it wasn't there. Same with racism.
And I think Bioware puts as much effort into F!Hawke as M!Hawke. Personally, that is. Really hoping to see the protagonist of DA3 as a female. That would balance out my testosterone-filled party.

[DrFumb1ezX]

krissyjf wrote...

DamnThoseDisplayNames wrote...

Overall, OP is prejudious against male gamers here, it's OK though, I can understand why.

Hmm.. I am curious why you think that.

I don't think I'm prejudice against male gamers at all. Why would I be?

I do think that game developers make games with male gamers in mind, but that doesn't make me prejudice. That just makes me realistic.

I didn't see any prejudice there, bud. Slight resentment, maybe, but warranted, because most companies do make games with males in mind.

[foo man chew]

Nope im a guy and i want my lead character to be male.Tried it with some final fantasy games and i couldnt complete them.Sorry but im a guy who wants a male lead.

[FedericoV]

krissyjf wrote...

You have a valid point.

In all the ME and DA games, I always choose to play as the female protagonist, because I can relate to a female character better than to a male. I did try to play as MShepard once, but I never finished my playthrough,because it felt fake to me. My Shephard is a female. As far as I am concerned, MShep does not exist. Same thing with my Hawke. Hawke is a female, as far as I am concerned. So I can completely understand where you are coming from.

The funny thing is, when I'm not given the choice of gender, I have no problem playing as the male protagonist. I have no problem getting into the character's head and immersing myself in the game. But if there is a choice of playing as a male or a female- and I play as a female first- I can't then go back and play as the male. It doesn't work for me.

We see it mostly in the same way then. I only believe that RPGs are peculiar in that sense (especially Bioware's ones) because of the dialogues and the romances. Just one question out of pure curiosity: have you played TW1 and/or TW2? As a female player, have you enjoyed playing as Geralt?

Btw, I believe that the attention to female gamer is one of the things that makes Bioware's game still special and unique. They are on the right track on the issue. I was happy that the special edition of ME3 featured a fem-Sheppard. They are taking a step-by-step strategy and it's right because going too extreme in one step would push the male player base in the corner and it would be bad for female players too (just look at the reaction to Anders gay romance...).

In time, I'm mostly sure that we will see a Bioware game marketed with a woman as the main charachter and it will be a fine moment.  

Modifié par FedericoV, 17 octobre 2011 - 11:03 .

[BBK4114]

krissyjf wrote...

Mykel54 wrote...

Bioware games are different in the fact that they try to catter not only to the majority (straigth males) but to the rest of gamers as well, so that is why they put time into a female protagonists or same sex romances. I think that if anything, female gamers should be grateful that bioware is taking steps towards that direction, even if they are small steps or you think they could be better. A lot of other game companies simply don´t care and cattter to the majority because that is where the safe money is.

I'm not sure that female gamers like myself should feel "grateful", for anything. I think "appreciate" would be a better term. I appreciate the fact that BioWare understands that it's just not males that purchase and play their games, and they have tried to develop their games with that fact in mind.

I just feel that BioWare should not be afraid to take things to the next level:To develop, market and promote a game that features the female protagonist first- rather than the male one.

I agree.  

And god forbid you should say something when a dev. is listening. Man, one went off on a woman in the MotA thread for saying it was wrong to design something for an NPC but  fem Hawke had to wear male Hawke's cast offs, which fit her as if that was indeed what they were.  He said they had run out of resources...
If the clothing had been designed for a female and the male character had to "make do" would they like it? (Rhetorical guys -I imagine you'll say it doesn't matter because you know there's no way in hell it'd ever happen!)

Or how about how much care went into making Leliana for DA2 -- she looked about 15 years younger.  While both Zevran and Alistair fell into a vat of ugly.  Alistair looks bee stung and old and fat. Zevran looked like the homliest elves in the game!!!  

I guess guys don't see things like this as ignoring the female gamer.   

[MozartsGhost]

krissyjf wrote...

Firky wrote...

As to putting female Hawke on the box, I think it would have been cool to see both standing back to back, or something like that.

 
This.

This is my main point for this thread. Why can't both sexes be portrayed equally when it comes to marketing? Why must the female protagonist always take the backseat when it comes to the development of the game and when it's time to promote and market said game?

It comes down to attitudes, I suppose. When a female gamer complains about being regulated to sitting at the back of the bus, she is told "Why are you complaining? At least you have been allowed on the bus." (Okay.. so it's not as bad as that, but you hopefully you get my point).

One reason for not including both Hawke's on the game box is that it may lead to confusion amongst those who don't really know much about the game. They might wonder why the girl or guy from the box isn't present in the game at all. I don't think it's a very good excuse but it's an excuse nontheless.

Modifié par MozartsGhost, 17 octobre 2011 - 11:09 .