36 réponses à ce sujet

[Sarielle]

(Prepare for another wall o' text from me. Sorry!)


I've already been looking into mods, but now it's time to think about what type of character I want to play. I've always been...pretty horrible at creating characters for these types of games, so I'm hoping I can list some preferences and get some guidance so I get a character I enjoy....but don't utterly gimp myself.

Anyways.

1) I'm ruling out Druids and Paladins because stressing over TWO alignment restrictions (good-evil, chaotic-lawful) is just...well...stressful. I typically enjoy more neutral characters, but I gotta say lawful evil is another favorite. Based on other threads, evil doesn't seem to be the way to go for first playthrough, though.

2) I like playing casters (and ranged in general)...but either I break all immersion and rest every 30 seconds (hyperbole alert) or I'm just...useless. I think I must make crappy spell choices or something. I typically enjoyed the charisma-based sorcerer over the intelligence-based wizard.

3) I remember really loving animal empathy from NWN (my ranger was my first character ever), but it looks like that's not implemented in Baldur's Gate for rangers? Phooey.

4) I LOVE conversation skills. Are those included/important?

5) I'd rather not have to stack 15 buffs on myself all the time to be viable.

6) I enjoy the idea of a bard, but my attempts at creating a viable one in NWN/2 were abysmal...and I'd rather not just spend all my time buffing NPCs to let them fight for me. Now turning foes against each other, etc.? That's awesome.

7) In cooperative games (IE, MMOs), I enjoy playing healers/supporters, so ability to heal and rez is always nice, too.

8) I don't like pure rogues, but being able to handle locks/traps IS nice, if viable within another build.

9) And finally...I play these games to roleplay. The uber build of uberness doesn't mean a whole lot to me if it doesn't make sense from that perspective.


Now, obviously all these aren't going to roll into one character, but if anyone has any guidance based upon what I've said here, I'd love love love to hear it. I don't want to have to resort to console commands to finish encounters. Not that, uh, I've ever done that before. >.>; *cough*



NOTE: I am fully open to mods like Spell Revisions or Divine Remix or whatever, providing you guys think it would increase enjoyability as a newbie.

Modifié par Sarielle, 17 octobre 2011 - 01:34 .

[corey_russell]

What about an elven cleric/thief? You can wear the best armor in the game, will get more spells than a wizard would (and yes, wizards at low levels are almost useless (it's almost because they can use arcane wands)) if your wisdom is high, and now and then can do some backstabs.

[Sarielle]

Hmm, it would depend. I'd need to be able to play as basically a cleric with the ability to pick locks etc. (as I said, not a fan of the thief playstyle) and I'd prefer to play ranged -- either spells or ranged weapon.

...actually, how would a bard work for those criteria I just listed?

Modifié par Sarielle, 17 octobre 2011 - 02:08 .

[ussnorway]

Consider a human Ranger 2 Cleric X he/she has great armour, can cast ANY divine spell, can also use a sling at range when spells are out, has solid melee stats (blunt weapons only) for when things get hectic & (assumes tutu) can pick a package as the first class… I recommend the Stalker because “stealth” makes the opening game much easier.
Edit;          BG1 Starting stats... & BG1 finishing stats...

Modifié par ussnorway, 17 octobre 2011 - 02:37 .

[Sarielle]

Oooh, starting stats. Now that's helpful. Any reason I wouldn't be able to use a bow? (Keep in mind, I'm really...I have no idea what I'm doing building characters, lol. If it's an obvious answer, sorry xD)

EDIT: And what kind of armor would I use with that? I'm assuming studded leather/light so I could be tricksy?

EDIT EDIT: And any "must have" spell recommendations for that build?

Also, if anyone else is reading this, I'm by no means not open to further suggestions.

Modifié par Sarielle, 17 octobre 2011 - 03:42 .

[Humanoid_Taifun]

Sarielle wrote...
2) I like playing casters (and ranged in general)...but either I break all immersion and rest every 30 seconds (hyperbole alert) or I'm just...useless. I think I must make crappy spell choices or something. I typically enjoyed the charisma-based sorcerer over the intelligence-based wizard.

Sorcerers may require a high charisma score during creation, but they require no stats for their abilities. You might want to raise Dex and Con for survivability (in the beginning of the game) and wisdom for Wish spells (at the end of the game). Int and charisma are your conversation skills. BG1 checks charisma on a regular basis, BG2 doesn't but offers a free charisma of 18 (or 25, if you know what you're doing).
But since you can always make somebody else the lead, there is no powergaming reason to put more than the required points into charisma and intelligence. (this goes for all classes - only mages need intelligence, nobody needs charisma)

3) I remember really loving animal empathy from NWN (my ranger was my first character ever), but it looks like that's not implemented in Baldur's Gate for rangers? Phooey.

Even if you employ the animals, they are mostly useless post-BG1. But that's only reasonable. You are fighting toe to toe with dragons. What's a black bear going to do in that kind of fight?

4) I LOVE conversation skills. Are those included/important?

As said, in BG1, charisma is checked on a regular basis (and many NPCs may refuse to join you if you don't look good enough to them).
Intelligence and wisdom are sometimes checked throughout the series. At a very few occasions, (I can remember 1), strength is checked for a Threat.
But you can change your leader at any time you want so it shouldn't be difficult to always meet the requirements. Furthermore, in BG2 you do not lose anything even if you don't meet the requirements (except for a bit of money when bartering).
Besides that, there are no conversation skills.

5) I'd rather not have to stack 15 buffs on myself all the time to be viable.

Sounds like a berserker player.
*activate Berserk*
*ready for anything!*

6) I enjoy the idea of a bard, but my attempts at creating a viable one in NWN/2 were abysmal...and I'd rather not just spend all my time buffing NPCs to let them fight for me. Now turning foes against each other, etc.? That's awesome.

The best bard kit is the blade. But it sounds like the Jester is more to your tastes (though you should install Rogue Rebalancing for that, otherwise you may feel very stupid post 3M XP)
Bards are viable options, but they need a lot of care to bloom. That includes buffing. (like Stoneskin, Spirit Armor, Spell Shield, Blur, Mirror Image, Improved Invisibility, Globe of Invulnerability, Spell Immunity: Divination, Spell Immunity: Abjuration - that's not quite 15 yet, but they'd also like some clerical buffs from your party healer)
They are quite fragile without buffs, but nimble crowd-pleasers with them.

7) In cooperative games (IE, MMOs), I enjoy playing healers/supporters, so ability to heal and rez is always nice, too.

I support ussnorway's idea of the Ranger-Cleric, but I prefer the multiclass over the dualclass. Anyway, I'm sure it's the better choice for beginners.

8) I don't like pure rogues, but being able to handle locks/traps IS nice, if viable within another build.

Swashbuckler is a thief without backstab but nice melee abilities.
Multi- or dualclass thieves usually emphasize the backstabbing as one of the main advantages of the class, so you wouldn't be using them to their full potential.

Sarielle wrote...
Oooh, starting stats. Now that's helpful. Any reason I wouldn't be able to use a bow? (Keep in mind, I'm really...I have no idea what I'm doing building characters, lol. If it's an obvious answer, sorry xD)

Clerics have a very limited choice in weapons.
Differently from other classes (rogues and mages), clerics (and druids) will maintain their limitations even in a class combination. The only ranged weapons for clerics are slings or spells.

EDIT: And what kind of armor would I use with that? I'm assuming studded leather/light so I could be tricksy?

Stalker cannot even wear the heavy armor.

And any "must have" spell recommendations for that build?

The Cleric combat spell trinity is (in this order!):
Holy Power - Righteous Magic - Draw Upon Holy Might.
The more warrior levels you have, the more useful this is of course, since clerics only get 1 attack per round, or 2 when dualwielding (while fighters can go up to 5).

Summarizing:
Berserker (especially dwarf): Easy character. Frontline fighter whom you don't have to mollycoddle all the time.
Jester: Trickster. Jack of many trades, master of none. If you take care of this character, they can do a lot of cool stuff.
Swashbuckler: Frontline fighter trickster. Not as durable as a real warrior, but with the right equipment and correct handling a great fighter. One of the few character choices to easily hit the armor class cap.
Ranger/Cleric (multi): Heavy hitter, tank, healer, caster.... Doesn't require buffs for every assignment, but gets a whole lot more impressive if they are cast.

Modifié par Humanoid_Taifun, 17 octobre 2011 - 05:02 .

[ussnorway]

Sarielle wrote...
Oooh, starting stats. Now that's helpful. Any reason I wouldn't be able to use a bow? (Keep in mind, I'm really...I have no idea what I'm doing building characters, lol. If it's an obvious answer, sorry xD)

EDIT: And what kind of armor would I use with that? I'm assuming studded leather/light so I could be tricksy?

EDIT EDIT: And any "must have" spell recommendations for that build?

Weapons;

You could use a bow at the start but I don’t recommend it because clerics are restricted to blunt weapons (religious reasons) and any points put into bows, swords etc are lost when you dual after level two.
 
As a ranger (any type) you get two free points in two weapon style but I normally go with a staff… if you have ever seen the show then you know why but it’s worth noting that staffs can be used to backstab.

A normal ranger/ cleric would probably enjoy the ankheg armour found in Nashkel but stalkers only take leather because they need to stealth & spells of course.

Different people have other styles but in the early game just use a sling/ stealth to control the battle… once you unlock cleric you can cloak ‘Sanctuary’ at the drop of a hat… in the mid to late game “Summon Insects” & “Insect Plague” become powerful offensive magic as well as “Call Woodland Beings” & “Animate Dead” for defence.

Spells like “Barkskin” & the upgrade “Iron skins” will help offset your armour while “Silence” & “Command” remain useful through out the first game but they are situational… don’t forget to grab a wand of the Heavens & Fear.

Modifié par ussnorway, 17 octobre 2011 - 05:36 .

[Grond0]

Sarielle wrote...

2) I like playing casters (and ranged in general)...but either I break all immersion and rest every 30 seconds (hyperbole alert) or I'm just...useless. I think I must make crappy spell choices or something. I typically enjoyed the charisma-based sorcerer over the intelligence-based wizard.

No-one appears to have suggested a sorceror, but you might want to consider that as well.  They have a limited number of spells they can learn, but within those can cast any spell up to their total allowed each day.  There is a ring that you can find in the Friendly Arm Area that can double your 1st level spells per day - this is helpful in ensuring that your sorceror can make a big contribution to the group.

If you are interested there have been several threads on these forums in the past about what a good selection of spells for a sorceror would be - it is possible to get quite different experiences even in BG1 depending on your choices, let alone BG2.

[Sarielle]

Humanoid_Taifun wrote...

*lots of awesome stuff*

Thanks for the detailed breakdown. I think I've figured out why my bards in the past were abysmal.



...I should add, if it's not obvious, that I DO intend to play through the entire series with this character. So if I'd need to do something drastically different to be viable for BG2 as well, please do tell me. You've covered the animals/conversation skills, but I just mean in general for combat.

ussnorway wrote...

Different people have other styles but
in the early game just use a sling/ stealth to control the battle… once
you unlock cleric you can cloak ‘Sanctuary’
at the drop of a hat… in the mid to late game “Summon Insects” &
“Insect Plague” become powerful offensive magic as well as “Call
Woodland Beings” & “Animate Dead” for defence.

Spells like
“Barkskin” & the upgrade “Iron skins” will help offset your armour
while “Silence” & “Command” remain useful through out the first game
but they are situational… don’t forget to grab a wand of the Heavens
& Fear.

Thank you for the suggestions

Grond0 wrote...

If you are interested there have been
several threads on these forums in the past about what a good selection
of spells for a sorceror would be - it is possible to get quite
different experiences even in BG1 depending on your choices, let alone
BG2.

I did a little digging and found a couple of detailed threads. I'll look into it, thank you!

Would you have any starting/ending stat suggestions (or race suggestions) if I went that way? Right now I'm leaning toward the Ranger/Cleric simply because it seems fun and I have plenty of info on it, heh.

Modifié par Sarielle, 17 octobre 2011 - 06:32 .

[Gorthaur X]

Sorcerers don't really need any stat, though most would suggest maxing CON (16 is the max useful value for non-fighters) and DEX for survivability. After that, the other stats have some limited usefulness other people have addressed.

If you decide to be a sorcerer, elf is the best race for the sleep and charm resistances.

I had no-reload through BG1 with an elven sorc earlier this year, which turned out to be great fun, but it may be that you'd like to play through with some other class first to familiarize yourself with the spells: once chosen, the sorcerer can't change their known spells at all.

[Grond0]

Sarielle wrote...

Grond0 wrote...

If you are interested there have been several threads on these forums in the past about what a good selection of spells for a sorceror would be - it is possible to get quite different experiences even in BG1 depending on your choices, let alone BG2.

I did a little digging and found a couple of detailed threads. I'll look into it, thank you!

Would you have any starting/ending stat suggestions (or race suggestions) if I went that way? Right now I'm leaning toward the Ranger/Cleric simply because it seems fun and I have plenty of info on it, heh.

For a sorceror I would suggest the following stats:
Strength - for power gaming 18 (I nearly always use that), but you might want less for RP reasons.  I would recommend you don't put it too low or you will find it hard to carry things which can be annoying.
Dexterity - 18.  This is important because it helps AC as well as missile use (for occasions when you're short of spells).
Constitution - 16.  As with dexterity constitution makes a big difference to survivability.  16 will give you 2 extra HPs per level, i.e. nearly as much as your average standard HPs.  Only fighter types can benefit from constitution above 16.
Intelligence - 9.  This is the minimum you need to be able to use scrolls and wands.  A sorceror can't go below this anyway, but you might want to go higher for RP reasons.
Wisdom - 3.   There are very few game benefits from a higher wisdom, though you might want this for RP reasons.  If your sorceror wants to be able to cast the L7 limited wish or L9 wish spells this would be a potential reason for having high wisdom (though even there you can make use of another party member's wisdom).
Charisma - 18.  Charisma is actually not that important in the game - it's easy to complete with charisma 3 (though a sorceror must have at least 9).  However, a high charisma will ensure you have no problems in recruiting NPCs and get you better prices at shops.

If you went for the above scores that would be a total of 82 on the die roll - you would be unlucky not to get that within a minute of rolling.  Note that during vanilla BG1 you have the opportunity to increase all stats by 1 apart from wisdom (which can be increased by 3).  If you follow the above scores the only increase that will make a lot of difference is strength - the difference between 18 and 19 here is huge (+1 to hit +2 damage turns into +3 / +7 and you can carry the rest of the party on your back as well).

The only race selections available for a sorceror in vanilla are human, half-elf and elf.  There's very little difference between the first two (the half-elf has very minor benefits, but you probably wouldn't notice these in the game).  However, the elf is easily the best choice - particularly due to the higher dexterity available.

[Sarielle]

I love oldschool RPG communities. Everybody's always so helpful. I particularly enjoy getting the reasoning behind the decisions. You've both been very helpful.


That's probably good advice about spell selection. Either wait until a second playthrough or make damn sure I know what I want going into it.

[ncknck]

OP has played too much NWN.

hehe.

But seriously, a berserker dwarf sounds like your kind of char. But youll need to shadowkeep the save, to allow Viconia romance, she doesnt like dwarfes( nor elves)

[Sarielle]

Heh, I actually typically play a female at least the first playthrough of a game, being female myself. It's a little easier to relate (though games like The Witcher are definitely still fun for me, and I do recall a male bard being my first playthrough of SoU). I'm going to assume she only likes guys based on the publish date. I don't remember homosexual romances popping up till maybe Jade Empire?

Either way, I'm not too fussed about the romances. I don't really try to plan those, or friendships. I just sort of play it by ear. It's more fun for me to let my characters surprise me.


EDIT: Reading this page, it says Stalkers can't specialize in ranged weapons. Will that hurt me when I take cleric after 2 levels (if I'm going for slings)? Also, elves are listed as probably the best race for both clerics and stalkers individually...is there a reason human was suggested? I have no qualms playing as either, I'm just trying to make it easier on myself, lol.

Modifié par Sarielle, 17 octobre 2011 - 11:55 .

[ussnorway]

Sarielle wrote...
EDIT: Reading this page, it says Stalkers can't specialize in ranged weapons. Will that hurt me when I take cleric after 2 levels (if I'm going for slings)? Also, elves are listed as probably the best race for both clerics and stalkers individually...is there a reason human was suggested? I have no qualms playing as either, I'm just trying to make it easier on myself, lol.

It comes down to play style but first we need to understand a couple points;
        1. Humans are the only race that can dual class eg. Two levels of ranger then the rest into cleric.
        2. If you don’t want a human & you are not willing to just cheat then your only other option is the ranger/cleric multi-class (Half elf only)… this chart shows the legal combinations by race.

Differences;
Kits, (Bg2 or tutu) can only be taken as a first choice and are not available to multi-class characters. Eg. You can have a swashbuckler- cleric or a stalker- cleric but you can’t have say a fighter- Shapeshifter… Gnomes are technically the exception because they can be Illusionist instead of just mages.

Despite the similarity in names these two characters play very differently because cleric (like mages) base a lot of their spells & abilities on level eg. Turn undead and the multi-class spends half her points on ranger so will have less spells/ power available at any given time in the game… I'm not saying she will be weaker but just that IMO her stats are designed more towards entering melee combat after some buffs where the dual class is more of a pure caster & only uses her sling when not casting.

p.s. That chart looks wrong to me… been a month or two but I think stalkers get X3 on their backstabs not the X2 listed.

Modifié par ussnorway, 18 octobre 2011 - 01:47 .

[Sarielle]

Oooooooh, OK. I obviously don't know the system very well, lol. Thank you. Playing a human is just fine with me, so that's not an issue Really appreciate the patience!

Modifié par Sarielle, 18 octobre 2011 - 01:58 .

[ussnorway]

Happy to help and please don’t feel like you have to agree with any thing we suggest because in most cases we have “been there done that” but you might enjoy the excitement of discovering berserker dwarfs for yourself.

Bg2 Romance suggestion Sarah. 
Yes I know its lemonade flavoured but it’s also well written and you get to talk about your feelings for a change. 

Bg1 (especially with npc-banter mods) has lots of characters to collect… Coran is a definite laugh but unfortunately BG2 female romance is something of a barren landscape only Anomen is offered...aka Annoy-man (Prat-boy) as he is more or less affectionately known by the community.

[PicklePepperPiper]

I'm with H_T in that I prefer the half elf multi-class of ranger/cleric. Especially in BG1, I don't think stalkers can carry the front line with the best light armor, unless you buff them like crazy. Get a fully buffed ranger/cleric in full plate mail, however, that's a different story.

Stats for a multiclass ranger/cleric:
STR, DEX, CON and WIS all 18. INT should be 6 or more (a general rule if you intend to take your character on to BG2 - there's a few fights where it's helpful to have an INT score always one more than a multiple of 5, like 6, 11 or 16). CHA is virtually useless - have an NPC lead the group with a high CHA.

-PPP

[Sarielle]

LOL, "Annoy-man" huh? I'll definitely give those NPC mods a look-see. What did you mean by "lemonade-flavoured"?

@Piper: What would that play like? From what Norway said, it sounds more melee oriented?

Modifié par Sarielle, 18 octobre 2011 - 03:53 .

[PicklePepperPiper]

The ranger/cleric is a solid class, and doesn't take a great deal of micromanaging - it's true that you won't get as many spell casting slots, but the ranger is there to provide the melee *oomph*. I don't see much point in dualling if you want to be primarily a supporting caster, just go all out cleric if that's what you're after.

I've always seen ranger/cleric builds as front liners. With the best armor, you don't need to be buffed to survive surprise encounters. The 2 free points to dual wielding is also a great asset (regardless of whether it's a multi or a dual class build).

That's my one and a half cents worth - ultimately if you enjoy the game, you'll come back and try something different, so I wouldn't be fussed on playing too perfectly the first time round. Do what speaks the most to you
-PPP

[Grond0]

PicklePepperPiper wrote...
Stats for a multiclass ranger/cleric:
STR, DEX, CON and WIS all 18. INT should be 6 or more (a general rule if you intend to take your character on to BG2 - there's a few fights where it's helpful to have an INT score always one more than a multiple of 5, like 6, 11 or 16). CHA is virtually useless - have an NPC lead the group with a high CHA.

I would suggest a minimum of 9 for intelligence as you might find it annoying not to be able to use wands and scrolls.  Clerics can't use the majority of wands, but wand of fear and wand of heavens could both be very useful and the ability to use green scrolls could be a potential lifesaver if (or when) you find all the rest of your party have been killed and you're all on your own.

[corey_russell]

Grond0 wrote...

PicklePepperPiper wrote...
Stats for a multiclass ranger/cleric:
STR, DEX, CON and WIS all 18. INT should be 6 or more (a general rule if you intend to take your character on to BG2 - there's a few fights where it's helpful to have an INT score always one more than a multiple of 5, like 6, 11 or 16). CHA is virtually useless - have an NPC lead the group with a high CHA.

I would suggest a minimum of 9 for intelligence as you might find it annoying not to be able to use wands and scrolls.  Clerics can't use the majority of wands, but wand of fear and wand of heavens could both be very useful and the ability to use green scrolls could be a potential lifesaver if (or when) you find all the rest of your party have been killed and you're all on your own.

I second this. In my fairly recent all-paladin run, my lore paladin and Keldorn got chunked so the only way to cast green scrolls (or blue heal scrolls) was to use some sort of intelligence potion. I had to carry around something ridiculous like 30 potions of genius both for scrolls and the few mind flayers we had to fight. Needless to say, we skipped the mindflayer altogether as that would have used ton of potions and we didn't have the money to replace them. I could avoid the hassles though if I spent a lot more time rolling my PC to have 9 INT, so that way I am guaranteed some way to cast scrolls in BG 2.

[ussnorway]

Sarielle wrote...
 What did you mean by "lemonade-flavoured"?

A polite slang for lesbian.

[Grimwald the Wise]

Cleric/Rangers multi-classed have to be half-elves. They are exceedingly strong class, but are limited in the weapons that they can use. (What a cleric can use) Thus they can only use slings as ranged weapons. They can only use blunt melee weapons, but there is a very good hammer +2 available early in the game. One of their assets is that it is exceedingly easy to roll very high stats with this class. They can wear any armour, but if you want to stealth, studded leather is the way to go. I wouldn't use stealth much, but go for the heavier armour, but that's your choice. The game can be played in completely different ways depending upon your playing style. none of them is wrong. Be yourself.

[Alesia_BH]

Humanoid_Taifun wrote...

But since you can always make somebody else the lead, there is no powergaming reason to put more than the required points into charisma and intelligence. (this goes for all classes - only mages need intelligence, nobody needs charisma. 

Just a quick note here. 

There is one significant exception to the Charisma rule HT mentioned, and since Sarielle expressed an interest in conversation based skills, it seems worth raising.

If you are using the Ascension mod, you can convince one of the game's two most powerful foes to ally with you in the final battle. The ally will not join the party but, rather, will fight alongside you.

I have not confirmed this in the code, but it is my understanding that the more useful of the two checks the PCs natural (unmodified) Charisma as well as current Wisdom. You'd want a natural charisma above 15 and a current Wisdom of 18 (via Potion of Insight, for example) to get the relevant dialogue options. Note that you'd also need to be a goody-goody by the end with a shiny reputation to get this ally. 

It's a long way off -and isn't relevant if you aren't using Ascension- but again, it does seem worth raising since you enjoy conversation based gameplay options.

Enjoy your run!

Best,

A.

Btw. It's also worth noting that Intelligence influences surviability against Mind Flayers since their attacks drain Int and your character croaks when 0 is reached. You really shouldn't be letting your PC get hit by those blokes, but it can be nice to have a little margin for error if you screw something up.

If the Potions of Genius and or Mind Focusing stack in your install, then having a high natural Intelligence would just be a matter of cost cutting. If they do not, then it can become tactically relevant since the Potions would only allow you to add 6 Int points in that case. The Flayer's drain in increments of 5 so, 9 base +1 Tome + Potion of Genius + Potion of Mind Focusing would allow you to take 3 hits. 14 base, means 4. 5 will kill anyone. 

Modifié par Alesia_BH, 18 octobre 2011 - 11:47 .