462 réponses à ce sujet

[General User]

Robuthad wrote...
Except Legion has already said the Geth have been waiting for the Quarians to return. So clearly having Rannoch isnt important to them anymore, nor was it ever.

That's not what Legion says.  I think the line you're refering to is "Maybe we do it for them."  The truth is the geth themselves don't know exactly why they're doing whatever they're doing on the quarian homeworld.  But the fact that they are lavishing special attention on Rannoch is a sure sign that that world is special to them, perhaps for reasons they themselves don't fully understand.

Robuthad wrote...
The Geth aren't like the Batarians slavers or general a-holes who will bust up some planet and take whatever they need anytime. The Geth arent currently hurting anyone building their stations or using the rest of the galaxy's major resources enough to affect anything.

It's not a matter of the geth hurting anyone.  The geth's militant isolationism is a form of hostility.

Robuthad wrote...
They already clearly have plenty of ships and such but they don't care to have ships once they have built their Singularity.

Why would the geth just leave their ships?  Wouldn't they still have to be able to defend their new home?

[Robuthad]

They didn't seem to worried about their ships. They all want to be one geth. Millions of platforms all together. This would lead me to think that they eventually wish to just be hubs and leave their "bodies" behind.
And if they really needed defending, millions of advanced A.I. could find a way to control anything

And hostile to people who enter their territory. Not spreading it around or anything. It's always been, don't bother the geth and they wont bother you. You bother geth, then they bother you.

Could apply the same thing to human encroaching on batarian space. This is seen as hostile to the batarians and them wanting to have sanctions against the humans. Just a more peaceful form of hostility

Modifié par Robuthad, 19 octobre 2011 - 09:09 .

[General User]

Robuthad wrote...
They didn't seem to worried about their ships. They all want to be one geth. Millions of platforms all together. This would lead me to think that they eventually wish to just be hubs and leave their "bodies" behind.
And if they really needed defending, millions of advanced A.I. could find a way to control anything

So you think that, once their Dyson sphere is complete, the geth will all all upload, hang a "Do Not Disturb" sign on the nearest Mass Relay, not decide to do anything else or undertake any new projects. and rely on some sort of magic-"advanced A.I. [that] could find a way to control anything"-wand for their defense?  Really?

Robuthad wrote...
And hostile to people who enter their territory. Not spreading it around or anything. It's always been, don't bother the geth and they wont bother you. You bother geth, then they bother you.

Could apply the same thing to human encroaching on batarian space. This is seen as hostile to the batarians and them wanting to have sanctions against the humans. Just a more peaceful form of hostility

Aggression and hostility are not the same thing.  Humans are (arguably) aggressive without being hostile.  Geth are hostile without being aggressive.  Batarians are both aggressive and hostile. 

Modifié par General User, 19 octobre 2011 - 09:26 .

[SandTrout]

I actually agree with Saphra on this one. Simply not being expansionist doesn't mean that the Geth are not Hostile.

The fact that they have destroyed every attempt to establish diplomatic relations demonstrates that they are exceptionally hostile towards organic species.

@General User,

They are not specifically building a Dyson Sphere, that is just the closest analogue that Legion had to describe the mega-structure. My interpretation of that would be that it would be a completely self-sufficient complex that could house every Geth runtime.

[General User]

SandTrout wrote...

I actually agree with Saphra on this one. Simply not being expansionist doesn't mean that the Geth are not Hostile.

The fact that they have destroyed every attempt to establish diplomatic relations demonstrates that they are exceptionally hostile towards organic species.

@General User,

They are not specifically building a Dyson Sphere, that is just the closest analogue that Legion had to describe the mega-structure. My interpretation of that would be that it would be a completely self-sufficient complex that could house every Geth runtime.

I'm also using the term in Legion's sense.  Apologies for any confusion.

My thoughts are more along the lines that the construction of their mega-structure is the next step for the geth, it is not the last step for them.  I don't think the geth themselves know what they intend to do when and if the thing is ever finished.  Frankly, I think the idea that they are just going to all upload into it and wait for the universe to grow cold, to be a bit silly.

Any facility is only self-sufficient until you decide to do something new with it.  Should they all upload into the thing, the geth super-consciousness could decide to do any of one-billion-and-one things all of which would require them to maintain (if not expand) the amount of territory they control.  The idea that, "one day the geth are all just going to go away" is, again, frankly a bit silly.

[Anacronian Stryx]

Geth isolationism is quite understandable since their first experience with an organic species was their creators who later tried to destroy them - It's really not that hard to fathom a decision to recluse yourself from galactic society with such a history.

I would think that the Geth experience much of the same fear and mistrust the organics have towards the Geth just in reverse.

[General User]

I agree that it's understandable, it's just not acceptable, not by the rest of the galaxy anyway.

To understand all might be to forgive all, but it is not to tolerate or accept all.

[CptBomBom00]

Geth became species when they broker out from slaver of the quarians and by that they have become something more than just machines, and I think they should be respected for standing up to Quarians, and those geth that killed all organics were following Repers because they choose to get rid of organics to protect them self's but also Repers were using geth as tools of war, and Quarians should understand that by going to war with them is not the solution the Reaper problem which is at hand and needs dealing with.
Peace.

[atheelogos]

SkittlesKat96 wrote...

and they should integrate with the rest of the 'Citadel society' (or whatever you call it)

And if they don't want to?

[atheelogos]

General User wrote...

Robuthad wrote...
Let them live by themselves in their Technological Singularity. If they dont want to do anything with the rest of the galaxy and choose to have no effect, let em be. We shouldnt force anyone to submit if they just want to live by themselves in a far useless corner of the Galaxy

If the region behind the Perseus Veil has all the natural resources needed for the geth to maintian their standing and build a Dyson sphere, then it is arguably one of the MORE valuable regions of the galaxy.

Robuthad wrote...
Yes, but the Geth want to give back the homeworld, hence their constant care taking for 300 years. Once they have constructed their Techno Singularity they wont need a planet and can live on stations of their own construction in some random corner of space, far removed from the other species

The geth don't need a planet now.  What they do need are natural resources, transportation networks and the ability to defend the same.  They will still need those same things when and if they finish their mega-project (btw, does anyone know the timeline on that?  Years?  Centuries?  Millenia?  Eons?).  Those same things are exactly what the geth would be giving up to one extent or another if they allow quarians to return to Rannoch.

"then it is arguably one of the MORE valuable regions of the galaxy." Not really. Most if not all clusters would have enough to build many megastructures. You'd be surpised how much raw building materials exist in each rocky system

[atheelogos]

Saphra Deden wrote...

atheelogos wrote...

SkittlesKat96 wrote...

and they should integrate with the rest of the 'Citadel society' (or whatever you call it)

And if they don't want to?

Their chance came and went. Now it's time to control or destroy them.

Why? They haven't done anyting to us.

[atheelogos]

Saphra Deden wrote...

If I erected 20 foot high fences around my property, never came outside, never answered my phone, and shot at anyone who peaked over the top of my fence... do you think the neighbors would consider me a hostile person?

Sure but if you stayed in your house with guns locked and loaded because everyone was trying to kill you simply for being different then I wouldn't blame you for acting that way.

[General User]

atheelogos wrote...
"then it is arguably one of the MORE valuable regions of the galaxy." Not really. Most if not all clusters would have enough to build many megastructures. You'd be surpised how much raw building materials exist in each rocky system

True enough and wisely said.  Perhaps I should say that the region behind the Perseus Veil is obviously valuable, though likely not particularly so.

atheelogos wrote...
Why? They haven't done anyting to us.

They've presented themselves as hostile and have demonstrated a dangerous lack of understanding.  In short: the geth are a threat.  Be it at the negotiating table, or on the battlefield, threats need to be neutralized.

atheelogos wrote...
Sure but if you stayed in your house with guns locked and loaded because everyone was trying to kill you simply for being different then I wouldn't blame you for acting that way.

Everyone wasn't trying to kill the geth.  Whatever their public stance on AI in general, the Council remained neutral when it came to actual fighting.

Modifié par General User, 19 octobre 2011 - 10:57 .

[Kekkis]

Saphra Deden wrote...

atheelogos wrote...

SkittlesKat96 wrote...

and they should integrate with the rest of the 'Citadel society' (or whatever you call it)

And if they don't want to?

Their chance came and went. Now it's time to control or destroy them.

That plan worked so well last time someone tried it. So why not. You only need A.I that might go crazy and kill everyone, or enough soldiers to kill Geth platforms faster, than they build new ones. Not to mention, that Geth really can´t be killed when they are close to their communications networks and they can create as many backups as they want.

[CroGamer002]

Quarians have to prove to Geth they won't try to harm them at all to get Ranoch.

Even though Ranoch is useless to Geth, they can't risk backstabbing.
Also they need security from organics for their megastructure.
It is possible by giving Quarians Ranoch and their former colonies to leave themselves open for pirate, Batarian Hegemony and Cerberus attacks.

[atheelogos]

General User wrote...

atheelogos wrote...
"then it is arguably one of the MORE valuable regions of the galaxy." Not really. Most if not all clusters would have enough to build many megastructures. You'd be surpised how much raw building materials exist in each rocky system

True enough and wisely said.  Perhaps I should say that the region behind the Perseus Veil is obviously valuable, though likely not particularly so.

atheelogos wrote...
Why? They haven't done anyting to us.

They've presented themselves as hostile and have demonstrated a dangerous lack of understanding.  In short: the geth are a threat.  Be it at the negotiating table, or on the battlefield, threats need to be neutralized.

atheelogos wrote...
Sure but if you stayed in your house with guns locked and loaded because everyone was trying to kill you simply for being different then I wouldn't blame you for acting that way.

Everyone wasn't trying to kill the geth.  Whatever their public stance on AI in general, the Council remained neutral when it came to actual fighting.

"They've presented themselves as hostile and have demonstrated a dangerous lack of understanding" From their perspective the same could be said for organics.

"Everyone wasn't trying to kill the geth.  Whatever their public stance on AI in general, the Council remained neutral when it came to actual fighting." Not really. If you remember the Council sent a fleet to fight the Geth if they came out of their cluster. I wouldn't call that neutral.

[sorentoft]

General User wrote...

atheelogos wrote...
Why? They haven't done anyting to us.

They've presented themselves as hostile and have demonstrated a dangerous lack of understanding.  In short: the geth are a threat.  Be it at the negotiating table, or on the battlefield, threats need to be neutralized.

I would be more worried that they are making themselves into a true AI. That is a true threat, not some lack of understanding between both sides of the table.

[atheelogos]

Mesina2 wrote...

It is possible by giving Quarians Ranoch and their former colonies to leave themselves open for pirate, Batarian Hegemony and Cerberus attacks.

Really dude? lol Cerberus oh wait SPOILER! Cerberus will be dealt with by the end of ME3 and the Batarian Hegemony, or whats left of it, is in no condition to fight anyone. Remember the Reapers started with their territory. 

[Anacronian Stryx]

General User wrote...

I agree that it's understandable, it's just not acceptable, not by the rest of the galaxy anyway.
To understand all might be to forgive all, but it is not to tolerate or accept all.

Why? - Is the galaxy running out of space or something so everybody has huddle up and be real good neighbors or something?

what part of 'just leaving them alone is so unacceptable?

Hell when the Yagh killed the council diplomats the council had no problem in isolating the Yagh - so why would isolating the Geth be so unacceptable?

[Dean_the_Young]

atheelogos wrote...

Saphra Deden wrote...

Or you know, they could send something a little smaller and hail the Citadel as they approach. They could have done this a long time ago before the Heretics attacked.

What makes you think they'd even get to the Citadel? They'd have to get past fleets of ships that guard relays leading to the Citadel. Chances are they would have been destroyed long before they got to their destination, even if they had a msg of peace.

You have to remember organics don't trust them at all. For all they know that small Geth ship could have been on a sucide run. I mean really this is akin to letting a North korean ship pull into a Virginia port. 

Why do the Geth have to go to the Citadel in the first place? That's as absurd as insisting that the Geth would have to send a giant warship.

They have extranet access. They can send an envoy to an appropriate middle-ground (non-habited space on the frontier), send an extranet post, and have a tentative first meeting. From that first meeting they agree to have other meetings, and how to have other meetings.

Ambassadors don't need to be dreadnaughts, and they don't need to be sent directly to the other capital to make contact with another faction.

[Dean_the_Young]

ADLegend21 wrote...

jbblue05 wrote...

ADLegend21 wrote...

Dean_the_Young wrote...

atheelogos wrote...

"Both Creators and Created must complete their halves of the equation. The geth cannot solve for peace alone."
One side wants peace the other wants war. That's why it hasn't happened yet.

The Geth send no emissionaries, and kill all other emissionaries. The Quarians have people at the highest levels trying to send symbols of peaceful intent, and repudiate the past crimes. Which one is which, by your standard?

Envoys were sent to rannoch. The Geth were removing rubble and other harmful things (to quarians) from teh planet. Alien germs and diseases are harmful to them so they were removed.

Also the Geth sent Legion. They sent him alone because , as Legion says, multiple platform aor a fully stocke dship would raise alarm after what happened on the Citadel. He studied organics, interacted with them over the extranet, and sent his findings back to the Geth. while indirect, they are working towards peace as they build their dysonsphere.

I don;t think peace is the right word.  Their are just like any other government gathering intelligence to properly protect their own.  If the Geth really wanted peace they would be more formal and not send spies

Really? Oh yeah Organics just had to defend their political capital from the faction of us that split. Let's send a giant ass Ship ther to tell them we mean no harm, they won't think we're teh same geth they fought and attack us on sight or anything.

If that's the Geth reasoning, then the Geth are morons who can not be trusted with the power they have.