462 réponses à ce sujet

[Dean_the_Young]

SandTrout wrote...

Dean_the_Young wrote...

You might have said 'mean and war material', or just 'war material', which doesn't answer the obvious question.

What four weapon-systems do you think were the most important in WW2? (A person is not a weapon system.)

1) Submarine
2) B-17 'Flying Fortress'
3) M1 Garand
4) M4 Sherman

Fun fact of history:

General Eisenhower credited the Bazooka, the Atom Bomb, the Jeep, and the Gooney Bird (C-47 Skytrain) as the four tools of victory that won the second world war.

One was only used twice, after the war itself was determined. Only one is a weapon in and of itself. The other two are transports.

[aiDvEoN]

Dean_the_Young wrote...

SandTrout wrote...

Dean_the_Young wrote...

You might have said 'mean and war material', or just 'war material', which doesn't answer the obvious question.

What four weapon-systems do you think were the most important in WW2? (A person is not a weapon system.)

1) Submarine
2) B-17 'Flying Fortress'
3) M1 Garand
4) M4 Sherman

Fun fact of history:

General Eisenhower credited the Bazooka, the Atom Bomb, the Jeep, and the Gooney Bird (C-47 Skytrain) as the four tools of victory that won the second world war.

One was only used twice, after the war itself was determined. Only one is a weapon in and of itself. The other two are transports.

Well, today was not wasted, since I've learned something, and its only 2:40 am!

Fun way to make the point though: an army doesn't only have to be bred, fed and led, its got to GET THERE.

[General User]

P38 ace wrote...

OMG guys

did any of you talk to legion at all
Or
Take him to the Flotilla for Taili's LM

Xen, want to control them like machines
Ligions says, the geth want to be independant

QQ wants to find a new world
legions says the geth are open to peace and would be willing to live in peace with the Quarians on the home-world given a good will effort by the Quarians

but as legion continues he says,  the Quarains have attack the geth 100% of the time if odds where favorable

and Gerrel is the tipical view of what everyone and the Geth view the Quarians as the "kill all geth no matter what they think or act like.

It's not that hard to see peace is possible and sooo close the Quarians just have to reach out and take it


I am on side of Quarian-Geth peace,
its not that hard, but the Qarians are just too thick headed to see it or even want to talk to the the Geth

it makes me angery

It's much more complicated than that.  For the geth, peace is not just possible; it's a reality.  If the geth ever were pursuing the Migrant Fleet, they stopped long ago.  As far as the geth are concerned, the war has been over for 300 years!

That's just one of the reasons why the geth giving the quarians Rannoch is a ridiculous idea.  No matter how insanely genocidal the geth conquest of Rannoch may have been, it's a fait accompli.  The planet belongs to the geth, so the geth have every right to impose virtually any conditions they wish on any quarians returning to Rannoch.

So what conditions do you think the geth are likely to impose on any quarians living on one of their planets?  Will they insist that the quarians to disarm?  That the quarians be restricted to only using planet-side natural resources?  That the quarians give up advanced technology entirely?  All of the above and more besides?

And how likely do you think the quarians are to accept anything like that?  Are they so desperate to smell the pretty flowers that they'll sign away their rights as a sovereign people?  Are they willing to live on Rannoch as what amount to little more than museum pieces in a National Park of the Geth Empire?  Even if they are, I guarantee you their decedents (and maybe we'll not even have to wait that long) will damn them for it and repudiate the deal and the war will be back on.

The quarians need to bite the bullet and settle on a new world.

Modifié par General User, 21 octobre 2011 - 06:23 .

[SandTrout]

Dean_the_Young wrote...

Fun fact of history:

General Eisenhower credited the Bazooka, the Atom Bomb, the Jeep, and the Gooney Bird (C-47 Skytrain) as the four tools of victory that won the second world war.

One was only used twice, after the war itself was determined. Only one is a weapon in and of itself. The other two are transports.

That's cool. I question his call on the A-Bomb, though. It was more relavent in setting the stage for the post-war political situation than to the war itself.

Modifié par SandTrout, 21 octobre 2011 - 05:49 .

[Dean_the_Young]

SandTrout wrote...

Dean_the_Young wrote...

Fun fact of history:

General Eisenhower credited the Bazooka, the Atom Bomb, the Jeep, and the Gooney Bird (C-47 Skytrain) as the four tools of victory that won the second world war.

One was only used twice, after the war itself was determined. Only one is a weapon in and of itself. The other two are transports.

That's cool. I question his call on the A-Bomb, though. It was more relavent in setting the stage for the post-war political situation than to the war itself.

Well, any war is only as successful as the post-war it results in, right?

But yeah. Let's leave it as an appeal to authority, right?

[P38 ace]

and what evedince have the Geth given that they would impose those kind of things

if you listin to legion he says the geth are building a Supermassive Hub to where all geth will be networked togeather in one place

example.
the Geth(software) are 999 trillion+ Flash drives holding 999 trillion+ bytes of data looking/ building a single computer (hardware) big enough to hold all of the data at one time

that is the geths unlitimte goal, so why would the geth want the Quarians to suffer with no tech on their home world they can not use when eventually the geth will not need it or have plans for it.

next the geth deeply reveire the Quarians and have no gruge aginst them, they still defend them selfes because that is what all sentiant life does

whether the geth on hailsturm, or in the side missions where hartices or not does not matter
on Hailsturm the geth could have been investigating why the Quarians where there, and of coure " ALL GETH ARE EVIL" so shoot as soon as you see them, the geth fired back

And sure the Quarians should hold a gruge- for the first few generations- and i am perty sure that Quarians don't live as long as Asari

get over it and make peace

Humans are natorious for holding gruges- though shepard dose not do this in ME2-

but really?? a race that has been traveling the stars for 400+ years can't, sure it was a really big deal, but if they accept that they attacked first and accept that the geth only defened thair right to exitaince, and really want to get back to their home world, they would be exploring all options

INCLUDING PEACEFUL DIPLOMACY

[Thompson family]

Dean_the_Young wrote...

Fun fact of history:

General Eisenhower credited the Bazooka, the Atom Bomb, the Jeep, and the Gooney Bird (C-47 Skytrain) as the four tools of victory that won the second world war.

One was only used twice, after the war itself was determined. Only one is a weapon in and of itself. The other two are transports.

I'm quite sure he called the Higgins boat (an amphibious landing craft), absolutely vital to the war. He may have contradicted himself, I supposed. Anyway, even if it's true it illustrates your point.

Here it is, from a Stanford University website: "Andrew Higgins is the man who won the war for us. If Higgins had not designed and built those LCVPs (Landing Craft, Vehicle and Personnel), we never could have landed over
an open beach. The whole strategy of the war would have been different.”

Modifié par Thompson family, 21 octobre 2011 - 07:32 .

[Not the Droid]

The v-seris Rocket, radar and the enigma machine Anyone anyone fine...

wanders away again

[Not the Droid]

Breaking of thats is wish I new how ta edit

[Dean_the_Young]

Thompson family wrote...

Dean_the_Young wrote...

Fun fact of history:

General Eisenhower credited the Bazooka, the Atom Bomb, the Jeep, and the Gooney Bird (C-47 Skytrain) as the four tools of victory that won the second world war.

One was only used twice, after the war itself was determined. Only one is a weapon in and of itself. The other two are transports.

I'm quite sure he called the Higgins boat (an amphibious landing craft), absolutely vital to the war. He may have contradicted himself, I supposed. Anyway, even if it's true it illustrates your point.

Here it is, from a Stanford University website: "Andrew Higgins is the man who won the war for us. If Higgins had not designed and built those LCVPs (Landing Craft, Vehicle and Personnel), we never could have landed over
an open beach. The whole strategy of the war would have been different.”

That's another one, though I didn't remember the quote.

Yeah, Eisenhower was a big believer in logistics.

In fact, I'm remembering a story about a US war game of WW3. The west lost and failed to keep the USSR from overrunning Europe... because of insufficient logistics.

[Homey C-Dawg]

I try to look at it from the geth perspective. Their first experiences in this universe as a sentient race was their organic "parents" trying to exterminate them.

Legion says the geth spy on organics, so they must be fully aware that organics attempt to kill AI on sight (even the credit-funneling AI on the citadel knew this). I'm wondering what reason the geth ever had to think they should trust organics at all.

[General User]

P38 ace wrote...
and what evedince have the Geth given that they would impose those kind of things

Legion's famous "the Creators attacked 100% of the time they thought hey could win" statement, which by itself is utterly ridiculous, actually makes sense in the context of the geth still viewing the quarians as a threat and/or are emotionally invested in this matter, as well they should be.  The difference is that the geth do not understand their own emotions and cannot place or express them in the proper context.

P38 ace wrote...
if you listin to legion he says the geth are building a Supermassive Hub to where all geth will be networked togeather in one place

example.
the Geth(software) are 999 trillion+ Flash drives holding 999 trillion+ bytes of data looking/ building a single computer (hardware) big enough to hold all of the data at one time

that is the geths unlitimte goal, so why would the geth want the Quarians to suffer with no tech on their home world they can not use when eventually the geth will not need it or have plans for it.

That's just not true.  As previously said, building the "Dyson Sphere" is the next step for the geth, it is not the ultimate step for them.  No one, not even the geth, have any idea what the next step after the "Dyson Sphere" will be.  But believeing that, one day, the geth are just going to all go away, is more than a little silly.

P38 ace wrote...
next the geth deeply reveire the Quarians and have no gruge aginst them, they still defend them selfes because that is what all sentiant life does

As before, I would say that it's far more complicated than that.

P38 ace wrote...
And sure the Quarians should hold a gruge- for the first few generations- and i am perty sure that Quarians don't live as long as Asari

Generational grudges are funny things.  Often they grow stronger as subsequent generations become further and further removed from the actual events.

P38 ace wrote...
get over it and make peace

Humans are natorious for holding gruges- though shepard dose not do this in ME2-

but really?? a race that has been traveling the stars for 400+ years can't, sure it was a really big deal, but if they accept that they attacked first and accept that the geth only defened thair right to exitaince, and really want to get back to their home world, they would be exploring all options

INCLUDING PEACEFUL DIPLOMACY

There's "peace" as in not fighting, and then there's "peace" as in resolving conflict.  If you want a realistic representation of the latter then you must demand that the game seriously address the issues between the geth and the quarians.  Not just end the matter with the two sides shaking hands with ParagonShepard smiling in approval.

Modifié par General User, 21 octobre 2011 - 08:08 .

[DarthSliver]

P38 ace wrote...

and what evedince have the Geth given that they would impose those kind of things

if you listin to legion he says the geth are building a Supermassive Hub to where all geth will be networked togeather in one place

example.
the Geth(software) are 999 trillion+ Flash drives holding 999 trillion+ bytes of data looking/ building a single computer (hardware) big enough to hold all of the data at one time

that is the geths unlitimte goal, so why would the geth want the Quarians to suffer with no tech on their home world they can not use when eventually the geth will not need it or have plans for it.

next the geth deeply reveire the Quarians and have no gruge aginst them, they still defend them selfes because that is what all sentiant life does

whether the geth on hailsturm, or in the side missions where hartices or not does not matter
on Hailsturm the geth could have been investigating why the Quarians where there, and of coure " ALL GETH ARE EVIL" so shoot as soon as you see them, the geth fired back

And sure the Quarians should hold a gruge- for the first few generations- and i am perty sure that Quarians don't live as long as Asari

get over it and make peace

Humans are natorious for holding gruges- though shepard dose not do this in ME2-

but really?? a race that has been traveling the stars for 400+ years can't, sure it was a really big deal, but if they accept that they attacked first and accept that the geth only defened thair right to exitaince, and really want to get back to their home world, they would be exploring all options

INCLUDING PEACEFUL DIPLOMACY

The Geth you kill in ME1 and ME2 are Heretics, Legion is the only True Geth away from the group. 

But like you said the Geth pursue Peace now, what makes it look bad is because they are doing it now after the Reapers have dealt some of their cards on the table. All Geth look alike so its hard to tell a True Geth apart from a Heretic, as far as Galaxy is concerned the Geth are responsible for the attack on the Citadel. The Galaxy doesnt know like Shepard & Company that there were two factions of Geth, I say were because I am assuming you did Legions Loyalty mission.  

The points people are making I find to be from an ME civilian perspective in away, they just dont know as Civilians of the Galaxy that the Geth can be trusted with known information on them. Civilians dont know what Shepard knows so if info a Civilian is limited to, I would be against the Geth too.

But taking the knowledge of what Shepard knows with already known information its hard to say why they attacked the Diplomats. My best answer is when they first were doing it they didnt trust the message of peace, problay thought it was a trap. But later in the years the attacks were from the Geth faction The Heretics and not the True Geth.

Its clear that the True Geth pursue peace, not only to seek help to stop The Reapers but so the Galaxy knows that the Geth arent dangerous like the Quarians would have you believe. 

[General User]

Homey C-Dawg wrote...

I try to look at it from the geth perspective. Their first experiences in this universe as a sentient race was their organic "parents" trying to exterminate them.

Legion says the geth spy on organics, so they must be fully aware that organics attempt to kill AI on sight (even the credit-funneling AI on the citadel knew this). I'm wondering what reason the geth ever had to think they should trust organics at all.

Reasons to trust?  None.

Reasons to establish a constructive dialogue?  Too many to count.

Modifié par General User, 21 octobre 2011 - 08:23 .

[Dean_the_Young]

What's this about 'civilian perspective'?

Everyone's perspective on the Geth until Shepard talks to Legion, if Shepard talks to Legion, is the same.

[Homey C-Dawg]

General User wrote...

Homey C-Dawg wrote...

I try to look at it from the geth perspective. Their first experiences in this universe as a sentient race was their organic "parents" trying to exterminate them.

Legion says the geth spy on organics, so they must be fully aware that organics attempt to kill AI on sight (even the credit-funneling AI on the citadel knew this). I'm wondering what reason the geth ever had to think they should trust organics at all.

Reasons to trust?  None.

Reasons to establish a constructive dialogue?  Too many to count.

Perhaps they were scared? Traumatized even? At least the geth version of it. From what I've picked up in the game it seems like the geth are just now on their way to discovering individuality (judging from much of the loyalty dialog) after being sentient for 300 years.

I'm not sure what suddenly "waking up" into sentience is like or what being a synthetic is like, but I wouldn't put it past a bunch of software brains to sit around for 300 years figuring out what this thing called life is all about. 300 years might not be such a long time to synthetics.

Killing people that come beyond the veil could be considered lashing out at the sharks. After all until they get their **** together they might not really care whether all the sharks bite or not.

Just a thought.

[General User]

Homey C-Dawg wrote...
Perhaps they were scared? Traumatized even? At least the geth version of it. From what I've picked up in the game it seems like the geth are just now on their way to discovering individuality (judging from much of the loyalty dialog) after being sentient for 300 years.

I'm not sure what suddenly "waking up" into sentience is like or what being a synthetic is like, but I wouldn't put it past a bunch of software brains to sit around for 300 years figuring out what this thing called life is all about. 300 years might not be such a long time to synthetics.

Killing people that come beyond the veil could be considered lashing out at the sharks. After all until they get their *** together they might not really care whether all the sharks bite or not.

Just a thought.

I'm not saying that the geth didn't have reasons for the decisions that they made, or even that I wouldn't have made the exact same decisions in their place.

Just that those decisions have consequences. Consequences that must be addressed whether anyone intended for them to happen or not.

Whatever their reasons for doing so, the geth decided to massacre the quarian people, to cut themselves off from the rest of the galaxy, to give tacit approval to X% of their number following the Reapers on a galactic jihad of extermination.

If the geth ever are to grow and mature as a form of life, a part of that process must include learning to take responsibility for the consequences of their own decisions.

Modifié par General User, 21 octobre 2011 - 09:25 .

[General User]

Saphra Deden wrote...

General User wrote...

The quarians need to bite the bullet and settle on a new world.

Why do they need to do that when they can vanquish the geth in a war, smell the pretty flowers, and not give up their sovereignty?

It's an option.  I'm just not sure it will work.

[CptBomBom00]

Quarians ancestors screwed up their race future really nicely, but if they go to war with geth they just get their ass kicked, again so only option is let geth be and agree to size the war and live together on one planet.

[General User]

Saphra Deden wrote...

General User wrote...

It's an option.  I'm just not sure it will work.

Well that applies to any option. The quarians settling down on another world aren't any less of a threat as the quarians settling down on Rannoch. It is still a foundation with which to empower their race and that is what the geth fear.

I don't know.  The thing for me is that the quarian geth conflict is so one-sided that, unless Daro'Xen's weapon succeeds, the quarians don't have a prayer of winning.  And if I were looking for a miracle, Admiral Daro' Xen wouldn't exactly be the first woman I looked to.  Besides superweapons in general have kind of a "Bond-villain" smell to them that I don't like.

Now, if I were the King of the Mass Effect galaxy, my preferred solution would be for the Alliance to offer the Migrant Fleet a comprehensive resettlement/development assistance/military alliance package.  Give the quarians a star-system or three carved out of preferably batarian and/or Terminus space.  The Migrant Fleet is the ideal place for humanity to start building a power base outside of the Citadel races.

Modifié par General User, 21 octobre 2011 - 09:24 .

[SandTrout]

General User wrote...

Now, if I were the King of the Mass Effect galaxy, my preferred solution would be for the Alliance to offer the Migrant Fleet a comprehensive resettlement/development assistance/military alliance package.  Give the quarians a star-system or three carved out of preferably batarian and/or Terminus space.  The Migrant Fleet is the ideal place for humanity to start building a power base outside of the Citadel races.

Indeed, Quarians are a prime candidate for becomeing the first non-human clients of the Systems Alliance. Both sides could potentially benefit greatly with the Alliance gaining extensitve AI, engineering, and Zero-G mining expertise, and the Quarians gaining enough military protection to reestablish themselves as a terestrial species.

Modifié par SandTrout, 21 octobre 2011 - 09:33 .

[slipspacescot]

The fact heretics keep being all pissy doesn't help

[capn233]

SandTrout wrote...

General User wrote...

Now, if I were the King of the Mass Effect galaxy, my preferred solution would be for the Alliance to offer the Migrant Fleet a comprehensive resettlement/development assistance/military alliance package.  Give the quarians a star-system or three carved out of preferably batarian and/or Terminus space.  The Migrant Fleet is the ideal place for humanity to start building a power base outside of the Citadel races.

Indeed, Quarians are a prime candidate for becomeing the first non-human clients of the Systems Alliance. Both sides could potentially benefit greatly with the Alliance gaining extensitve AI, engineering, and Zero-G mining expertise, and the Quarians gaining enough military protection to reestablish themselves as a terestrial species.

Don't forget extranet-order Quarian brides.