462 réponses à ce sujet

[wright1978]

aiDvEoN wrote...

wright1978 wrote...
The geth had retreated within the veil before ME1. Quarian's could have easily have tried to sue for peace at any point before then.

Genocide is genocide. They could have stood by their creations and refused any such citadel request.

You seriously believe that they wouldn't have sued for peace at some poin before the extermination  campaigns had hit the level they did?  99.9% of the population means it was carried well and truly beyond the point of military necessity.  The bolded part speaks for itself really.

As for refusing the Citadel request, why don't we ask the Krogan how that worked out for them.  We'll also ignore the fact that AI is illegal because every AI anyone built beforehand turned hostile, meaning that the quarians had every reason to believe that they had to act right the hell now.

 I haven't seen any evidence that the majority of quarians have even accepted the Geth as equals, let alone sued for peace.

Citadel might very well have issued sanctions, so what. The right thing to do rarely comes without a cost.
If you are going to play with god you should at least have the common decency to have an open mind about what you've created.

[Thompson family]

Amakiir wrote...

Legion answers this question if you pick the appropriate renegade dialogue option. It will tell you that returning the homeworld would serve no purpose because the quarians would still hate them.

I'd love to see a video of that. I don't doubt what you say, it's just not something I've seen before.

Modifié par Thompson family, 17 octobre 2011 - 03:31 .

[aiDvEoN]

wright1978 wrote...
Citadel might very well have issued sanctions, so what. The right thing to do rarely comes without a cost.
If you are going to play with god you should at least have the common decency to have an open mind about what you've created.

What's this playing god rubbish?  The geth were never supposed to be sentient.  They were machines, pure and simple.  Heck, they still defy anyone's understanding of AI tech, since no Blue Box means no AI as anyone understands it.

[General User]

As I see it, the there is no good reason for the geth to want to give Rannoch back to the quarians. It's a planet that they conquered in a war that (as far as they're concerned) has been over for some three hundred years.

Why would they give it to the quarians? What could the quarians possibly offer that would motivate the geth to both allow a long-standing enemy to set up camp in the heart of their territory and make the extensive military, territorial, and economic concessions that would be required to make any exchange of Rannoch actually workable.

As others have said, the geth likely haven't given up Rannoch because they don't trust the quarians (and vice versa) and there has never been an opportunity to do any negotiating.

If you're asking why the geth shouldn't give up Rannoch, then the answer is a bit different: giving the quarians Rannoch is a tremendously expensive prospect where the only real losers are the geth.

Modifié par General User, 17 octobre 2011 - 04:04 .

[wright1978]

aiDvEoN wrote...

wright1978 wrote...
Citadel might very well have issued sanctions, so what. The right thing to do rarely comes without a cost.
If you are going to play with god you should at least have the common decency to have an open mind about what you've created.

What's this playing god rubbish?  The geth were never supposed to be sentient.  They were machines, pure and simple.  Heck, they still defy anyone's understanding of AI tech, since no Blue Box means no AI as anyone understands it.

Because playing about with illegal AI tech to create a slave race to do their menial tasks isn't playing God!

[aiDvEoN]

wright1978 wrote...

aiDvEoN wrote...

wright1978 wrote...
Citadel might very well have issued sanctions, so what. The right thing to do rarely comes without a cost.
If you are going to play with god you should at least have the common decency to have an open mind about what you've created.

What's this playing god rubbish?  The geth were never supposed to be sentient.  They were machines, pure and simple.  Heck, they still defy anyone's understanding of AI tech, since no Blue Box means no AI as anyone understands it.

Because playing about with illegal AI tech to create a slave race to do their menial tasks isn't playing God!

Read what I wrote again.  I'm hoping (in spite of this evidence here) that you'll see what is wrong with your response.

[Onyx T85]

Well if the Quarians weren't paranoid Meth addicts then this would work

[AgentSquishy]

I think you guys are looking at this all wrong, the geth are machines. They think like computers. Things are thoroughly studied and they all come to a consensus about what the best course of action is, and since when is giving away a planet (formerly homeworld, so longest established planet) completely industrialized, colonized, and covered in infrastructure been a 'smart' move? The political benefits would have to be proven to outweigh the cost of an entirely developed world, and I doubt that the geth found any evidence that there would be political benefit before the Reapers showed up and basically started forcing the entire galaxy to work together of die.

[aiDvEoN]

AgentSquishy wrote...

I think you guys are looking at this all wrong, the geth are machines. They think like computers. Things are thoroughly studied and they all come to a consensus about what the best course of action is, and since when is giving away a planet (formerly homeworld, so longest established planet) completely industrialized, colonized, and covered in infrastructure been a 'smart' move? The political benefits would have to be proven to outweigh the cost of an entirely developed world, and I doubt that the geth found any evidence that there would be political benefit before the Reapers showed up and basically started forcing the entire galaxy to work together of die.

All that is very interesting, but the Geth don't even use the planet.  They don't live on it, they don't use any of the infrastructure (likely smashed in the Morning War).  Its only use to them is something to orbit.

[Thompson family]

Saphra Deden wrote...

The geth may not use the planet, but keeping it still has advantages for them.

Ending a 300-year conflict in exchange for something they don't use that has bigger advantages.

Diplomacy, after all, largely consists of making a generous gifts out of things you don't want.

[Thompson family]

Saphra Deden wrote...

Uhh... in what way does giving up the planet end the conflict?

What would the quarians possibly give them in return?

Vital assistance agains looming extinction.

[CptData]

Saphra Deden wrote...

Thompson family wrote...

Ending a 300-year conflict in exchange for something they don't use that has bigger advantages.

Uhh... in what way does giving up the planet end the conflict?

What would the quarians possibly give them in return?

They would stop attacking them and accept them as "second Race" - not "second in their society", but as equals on the same world / in the same realm.

Sounds like a good deal, especially since the Geth have no use for the planets and don't want to enslave Quarians.

[wright1978]

aiDvEoN wrote...

wright1978 wrote...

aiDvEoN wrote...

wright1978 wrote...
Citadel might very well have issued sanctions, so what. The right thing to do rarely comes without a cost.
If you are going to play with god you should at least have the common decency to have an open mind about what you've created.

What's this playing god rubbish?  The geth were never supposed to be sentient.  They were machines, pure and simple.  Heck, they still defy anyone's understanding of AI tech, since no Blue Box means no AI as anyone understands it.

Because playing about with illegal AI tech to create a slave race to do their menial tasks isn't playing God!

Read what I wrote again.  I'm hoping (in spite of this evidence here) that you'll see what is wrong with your response.

I stand by what i said.  They didn't stumble upon the technology by accident in a Fleming discovering Penicillin moment. They were deliberately using known illegal technology and pushing at the known boundary of AI sentience with the presumption that they could control the sentience of the creatures they were creating.

[Dean_the_Young]

Thompson family wrote...

Saphra Deden wrote...

The geth may not use the planet, but keeping it still has advantages for them.

Ending a 300-year conflict in exchange for something they don't use that has bigger advantages.

Diplomacy, after all, largely consists of making a generous gifts out of things you don't want.

Why end a 300-year conflict when you can simply pause it for a few monthes? 

[Iron Star]

Why don't they give back Auschwitz to the ****s?

Sorry that's a bit extreme I know, just wanted to make link to the Legion speech when he talks about Rannoch being like the geth synonymous for Auschwitz.

Personally I agree with what AlphaJarmel said. It is hinted that Legion does have emotions, even if he doesn't know it. That Legion would be the only geth platform and/ or software that's "evolving" this particular way is next to nonexistent, what with the sharing of information/ experiences between the geth.

Modifié par Get fired up, 17 octobre 2011 - 06:33 .

[Eski.Moe]

Gabey5 wrote...

nelly21 wrote...

It is amazing how quickly opinions change because of one squadmate.

Please Bioware, no Batarian squadmates. I like hating those douches.

All the more sweet when you fall in love with Bali, a more socially awkward batarianTali

That's one instance where she can keep a mask on. If she doesn't have one, I'll buy her one. 

[Cadell_Agathon]

wright1978 wrote...

aiDvEoN wrote...

wright1978 wrote...

aiDvEoN wrote...

wright1978 wrote...
Citadel might very well have issued sanctions, so what. The right thing to do rarely comes without a cost.
If you are going to play with god you should at least have the common decency to have an open mind about what you've created.

What's this playing god rubbish?  The geth were never supposed to be sentient.  They were machines, pure and simple.  Heck, they still defy anyone's understanding of AI tech, since no Blue Box means no AI as anyone understands it.

Because playing about with illegal AI tech to create a slave race to do their menial tasks isn't playing God!

Read what I wrote again.  I'm hoping (in spite of this evidence here) that you'll see what is wrong with your response.

I stand by what i said.  They didn't stumble upon the technology by accident in a Fleming discovering Penicillin moment. They were deliberately using known illegal technology and pushing at the known boundary of AI sentience with the presumption that they could control the sentience of the creatures they were creating.

Ok, first off. The geth were not a "slave race". They were just machines, not a race. Automatons used to do work too dangerous, previously impossible, and too repetitive for an organic race to do. You keep calling their network AI and that the quarians willy nilly and intentionally made AI when they did NOT. They created a particular communication network for their machines so that the could function efficiently.

The quarians had no idea that they would develop sentience! And as to their aggressive preemptive strike behavior, how would you behave if your toaster (albiet much more primitive) or your computer started asking if it was alive or demonstrating sentience? Now before you answer remember your frame of reference is in a universe where every previous creation of AI (intentional or not) resulted in a hostile entity.

I'm not the biggest fan of the quarians but I can't stand it when people have that "I'm holier than thou" attitude towards the quarians for dealing with a possible synthetic threat in a logical and believable manner. I do not condone their current behavior of warmongering against the geth but their anger and bitterness is well placed.  

[Thompson family]

Dean_the_Young wrote...
Why end a 300-year conflict when you can simply pause it for a few monthes? 

That's a point. A really good grudge is hard to find.

[Gabey5]

Thompson family wrote...

Amakiir wrote...

Legion answers this question if you pick the appropriate renegade dialogue option. It will tell you that returning the homeworld would serve no purpose because the quarians would still hate them.

I'd love to see a video of that. I don't doubt what you say, it's just not something I've seen before.

me either

[Yezdigerd]

aiDvEoN wrote...

Homey C-Dawg wrote...

"When the creators have thought victory a possibility, they have attacked us 100% of the time" -Legion

I sure wouldn't let someone back in the house if they were trying to kill me.

Raptor Jesus have mercy, I hate that line.

When you're at war, and you think victory is possible, you attack.  That's not aggression, that's common freakin' sense.  The Quarians have not been given any sign, at any point, that the Geth aren't intent on continuing the campaign of genocide that killed 99.9% of their species.

Nope, pushing for conflict because you have the upper hand is opportunism. This is what Germany did in WWII.
What Legion is saying that there is no evidence of Quarian willingness to peacefully coexist without threat of force.
Hence there is no reason to give them a planet to populate and industrialize and which will increase their potential military strength.
It's really quite logical.