462 réponses à ce sujet

[Yezdigerd]

Cthulhu42 wrote...
Yes, comparing the quarians to the Third Reich. What a completely logical, sensible, and not overused analogy. I commend you on being able to grasp how similar those two situations are.

It wasn't my intent to be orginal, just to illustrate the point in a comprehensive manner. I at least, find not trusting someone who ever made nice at the point of a gun quite sensible. Nor do I find pushing for a military decision because you have clear military advantage common sense.

[Funkcase]

Well they dont live on it, they just keep in clean, treat it as a cemetary. With the Quarians trying to kill every Geth insight I'm sure it would be hard for the Geth to make contact with them, and the Geth are probably worried the Quarians will try and shut them all down again. Luckly for both sides Shepard is a third party and can speak on behalf of each of them.

[DiebytheSword]

Red and blue options for a better, longer lasting peace between legion and tali and their respective peoples!

[SnowHeart1]

AdmiralCheez wrote...

The quarians have never attempted to make peace with the geth. So when the geth go, "okay, here, have your homeworld back," the quarians would go "IT'S A TRAP" and the geth be like "no dude we're serious" and the quarians go "NO U KILLED OUR ANCESTORS" and then there's a war.

Only thing I would add to this is the Quarians will probably nuke Rannoch just to make sure they destroyed the Geth trap.

[Ghost-621]

ISpeakTheTruth wrote...

1) They aren't on speaking terms. No Geth has ever tried to talk to a Quarian, no Quarian has ever tried to talk to a Geth.

2. The Quarians are so hell bent on retaking the homeworld by force (And destroying the Geth) that just giving them their planet without 100% certainty that the Geth won't be attacked latter seems deeply unlikely.

3. That's what ME3 is for.

This sums it up. To be completely honest, I do think the whole story could be very emotionally charging if Bioware handles it correctly.

Think of the tragedy of frankenstein's monster, all he wanted was to be loved, but he was hated for existing!

[Valdrane78]

AdmiralCheez wrote...

Quole wrote...

To be fair, the geth have never tried to communicate with them either. Or the rest of the galaxy for that matter. Whch is why EVERYONE sees them as a threat and not just the quarians. Apparently they enjoy letting the heretics represent them to the rest of the galaxy.

Okay, fine.  Geth are isolationist weirdoes, too.  But you can't blame them for that any more than you can blame the quarians for holding a grudge.

I dunno, if anyoen shoudl be holding a grudge it's the Geth. 

Random Geth "Hey, we're alive, lets rejoice!"
Random Quarian "OMGWTFBBQ, KILL THEM!"
Random Geth "What.....why, we're alive you guys just created life, why kill us?"
Random Quarian "OMG, it's talking, kill it, KILL IT NOW!!!!"
Random Geth "Ok F you quarians, you asked for it"
Geth kick the crap out of Quarians.
Quarians now whine to everyone who will listen how they were exiled from their own planet.
Stupid Quarians.

[General User]

Yezdigerd wrote...

Cthulhu42 wrote...
Yes, comparing the quarians to the Third Reich. What a completely logical, sensible, and not overused analogy. I commend you on being able to grasp how similar those two situations are.

It wasn't my intent to be orginal, just to illustrate the point in a comprehensive manner. I at least, find not trusting someone who ever made nice at the point of a gun quite sensible. Nor do I find pushing for a military decision because you have clear military advantage common sense.

It's been my experience that anyone who doesn't make nice when they have a gun pointed at them either has a gun themselves or is completely insane (and often a combination of the two).

Besides, wouldn't any treaty that resulted from one side surrendering to the other BE "[making] nice at the point of a gun?" 

Oy vey

Modifié par General User, 17 octobre 2011 - 10:17 .

[Valdrane78]

Saphra Deden wrote...

Valdrane78 wrote...

I dunno, if anyoen shoudl be holding a grudge it's the Geth.

Yeah, because billions of their people were murdered, their culture and civilization destroyed, their history erased, and their descendents cast into exile for a crime they never committed.

Geth apologists are so sickening.

Uh what, no crime commited, you aren't serious are you.  They tried to wipe out an entire sentient race.  It doesn't matter that they built them, once the Geth became sentient they became just as important as any other  species out there.  I'd say that attempted genocide is a crime.

I think you're just as sick for thinking what the Quarians tried to do the Geth was ok.

Oh, and there is that little crime where Rael woke up a bunch of geth to test weapons on them. 

Modifié par Valdrane78, 17 octobre 2011 - 10:07 .

[Halfdan The Menace]

AdmiralCheez wrote...

The quarians have never attempted to make peace with the geth. So when the geth go, "okay, here, have your homeworld back," the quarians would go "IT'S A TRAP" and the geth be like "no dude we're serious" and the quarians go "NO U KILLED OUR ANCESTORS" and then there's a war.

This 

Modifié par ModestmeNTaLmogul, 18 octobre 2011 - 06:45 .

[Funkcase]

Saphra Deden wrote...

Valdrane78 wrote...

Uh what, no crime commited, you aren't serious are you.  They tried to wipe out an entire sentient race.

No, they did not. The quarians tried to shut down a malfunctioning series of dangerous robots. At that point they didn't think the geth were even sentient on a large scale.

Even if they had, that doesn't absolve the geth of any wrongdoing. The quarians might have attempted mass genocide, but the geth accutally carried it out. Every. Man. Woman. And. Child. Every. Old Person. EVERY QUARIAN, BILLIONS of individuals who were not fast or lucky enough to escape the geth's reach were slaughtered without mercy or hesitation.

The geth are not innocent victims and you can bet your ass that the overwhelming majority of quarians they killed wree very innocent.

I doubt you understand the magnitude of the quarian genocide and thus can't comprehend what it was. Only an ignorant person such as you could hold your position on this matter.

Not to mention every quarian who was born into exile since that time, forced to survive on a rotting and cramped fleet without even the freedom from a space suit, is an innocent victim. The geth around today, including Legion? Not so much.

Tbh, I think we dont know nearly enough about it to judge or accuse any side. They both did wrong and it will take both of them to admit it and try to do right by each other without anymore killing.

[Abirn]

Cthulhu42 wrote...

Yezdigerd wrote...

aiDvEoN wrote...

Homey C-Dawg wrote...

"When the creators have thought victory a possibility, they have attacked us 100% of the time" -Legion

I sure wouldn't let someone back in the house if they were trying to kill me.

Raptor Jesus have mercy, I hate that line.

When you're at war, and you think victory is possible, you attack.  That's not aggression, that's common freakin' sense.  The Quarians have not been given any sign, at any point, that the Geth aren't intent on continuing the campaign of genocide that killed 99.9% of their species.

Nope, pushing for conflict because you have the upper hand is opportunism. This is what Germany did in WWII.

Yes, comparing the quarians to the Third Reich. What a completely logical, sensible, and not overused analogy. I commend you on being able to grasp how similar those two situations are.

Um the Quarians tried to systematically exterminate the geth when they got spooked by the geth being sentient. 

In the history of the internet there has never been a situation that could fairly be compared to WW2 Germany and still there is not but this one isn't THAT far out there.

[Valdrane78]

Saphra Deden wrote...

Valdrane78 wrote...

Uh what, no crime commited, you aren't serious are you.  They tried to wipe out an entire sentient race.

No, they did not. The quarians tried to shut down a malfunctioning series of dangerous robots. At that point they didn't think the geth were even sentient on a large scale.

Even if they had, that doesn't absolve the geth of any wrongdoing. The quarians might have attempted mass genocide, but the geth accutally carried it out. Every. Man. Woman. And. Child. Every. Old Person. EVERY QUARIAN, BILLIONS of individuals who were not fast or lucky enough to escape the geth's reach were slaughtered without mercy or hesitation.

The geth are not innocent victims and you can bet your ass that the overwhelming majority of quarians they killed wree very innocent.

I doubt you understand the magnitude of the quarian genocide and thus can't comprehend what it was. Only an ignorant person such as you could hold your position on this matter.

Not to mention every quarian who was born into exile since that time, forced to survive on a rotting and cramped fleet without even the freedom from a space suit, is an innocent victim. The geth around today, including Legion? Not so much.

I guess if wondering if you have a soul is malfunctioning then we are all malfunctioning and deserve to be "shut down,"  according to you it is.  Instead of taking a step back and looking at the big picture, the Quarians decided to just kill them, and they paid for it with their lives and with the future of their species.  If somebody decided that me and mine deserved to die you are damn right I woudl stand up and destroy them and make sure they never came back to try it again.

[ADLegend21]

Saphra Deden wrote...

Valdrane78 wrote...

I dunno, if anyoen shoudl be holding a grudge it's the Geth.

Yeah, because billions of their people were murdered, their culture and civilization destroyed, their history erased, and their descendents cast into exile for a crime they never committed.

Geth apologists are so sickening.

Aliens: oh hey the humans are getting inteligent we have them as slaves and if they realize that they might wanna kill us all KILL THEM ALL, NO PRISONERS

Humans: hey we'd like to peacefully negotiate coexis- *killed

remaining humans: THEY'RE TRYING TO KILL US RETALIATE

*humans overwhelm aliens until aliens flee planet*

Humans: well that's over now, time to clean up!

aliens: humans are terrible they're the source of all our problems whaaaaaaaa! They took our homeworld and want to kill us, they're vile and we hate them and will shout you down if oyu say otherwise.

See how that is when you put the humans in the Geth's shoes? Teh quarians didn't want anything to do with ebing equals it was either enslave the geth or kill them and they chose to kill them and got obliterated when the geth fought back. They did not surrender, they did not try to stop the war with peace they chose to fight to the last man and ran when that wasn't working. The geth did not pursue, they did remained behind and cleaned up the mess that was made so that the quarians could return to tehir home, but no the uarians decided to be stubborn idiots and paint the Geth as some big bad villian when in fact they only acted in self defense because the quarians trie dto wipe them out when they gained sentients. Nothing mmore, nothing less.

[DiebytheSword]

Saphra Deden wrote...

Valdrane78 wrote...

Uh what, no crime commited, you aren't serious are you.  They tried to wipe out an entire sentient race.

No, they did not. The quarians tried to shut down a malfunctioning series of dangerous robots. At that point they didn't think the geth were even sentient on a large scale.

Even if they had, that doesn't absolve the geth of any wrongdoing. The quarians might have attempted mass genocide, but the geth accutally carried it out. Every. Man. Woman. And. Child. Every. Old Person. EVERY QUARIAN, BILLIONS of individuals who were not fast or lucky enough to escape the geth's reach were slaughtered without mercy or hesitation.

The geth are not innocent victims and you can bet your ass that the overwhelming majority of quarians they killed wree very innocent.

I doubt you understand the magnitude of the quarian genocide and thus can't comprehend what it was. Only an ignorant person such as you could hold your position on this matter.

Not to mention every quarian who was born into exile since that time, forced to survive on a rotting and cramped fleet without even the freedom from a space suit, is an innocent victim. The geth around today, including Legion? Not so much.

I think at some point, both the very young and inexperienced AI combine that became the geth consciousness and the largely arrogant and greedy Quarians who determined that the geth should be destroyed can both carry some modicrum of blame for the state of affairs between the Geth and their Creators.

I am with Paragon Shep with this one, at one point your two species are going to need to end hostilities between you both, or everyone will pay the price.

The Geth deserve to exist in peace, as is there want.  Regardless, genocide and causing a mass exodus rather than seeking surrender and eventual peace means that they went one step too far.  The Quarians, as a whole, are not the small group who determined that genocide was preferable to seeing what might come of AI consciousness.  They deserve to return to their homeworld in peace.  Both sides are to blame, both sides need to give to resolve this without bloodshed, and I believe the galactic community can reap rewards from both of them peacefully co-exsisting and working together, far beyond the defeat of the Reapers.

[General User]

ADLegend21 wrote...

Aliens: oh hey the humans are getting
inteligent we have them as slaves and if they realize that they might
wanna kill us all KILL THEM ALL, NO PRISONERS

Humans: hey we'd like to peacefully negotiate coexis- *killed

remaining humans: THEY'RE TRYING TO KILL US RETALIATE

*humans overwhelm aliens until aliens flee planet*

Humans: well that's over now, time to clean up!

aliens:
humans are terrible they're the source of all our problems whaaaaaaaa!
They took our homeworld and want to kill us, they're vile and we hate
them and will shout you down if oyu say otherwise.

See how that
is when you put the humans in the Geth's shoes? Teh quarians didn't want
anything to do with ebing equals it was either enslave the geth or kill
them and they chose to kill them and got obliterated when the geth
fought back. They did not surrender, they did not try to stop the war
with peace they chose to fight to the last man and ran when that wasn't
working. The geth did not pursue, they did remained behind and cleaned
up the mess that was made so that the quarians could return to tehir
home, but no the uarians decided to be stubborn idiots and paint the
Geth as some big bad villian when in fact they only acted in self
defense because the quarians trie dto wipe them out when they gained
sentients. Nothing mmore, nothing less.

Did the aliens create the humans and design them to be non-sapient?

Modifié par General User, 17 octobre 2011 - 10:23 .

[Funkcase]

Saphra Deden wrote...

Funkcase wrote...

Tbh, I think we dont know nearly enough about it to judge or accuse any side.

We know more than enough. The quarians did nothing wrong, not at any point. They (a select few quarians) made mistakes, but did not commit any crimes.

They did research that was skirting the law and when the Geth became sentient they broke that law, as they created AI. They then tried to commint genocide, a war crime. They're not innocent (The Quarian government not every single Quarian) I'm not saying the Geth are innocent too, They overreacted in how they protected themselves and should have tried reasoning with the Quarians.Like I said they both did wrong and it will take both of them to stop the hostilities.

Modifié par Funkcase, 17 octobre 2011 - 10:26 .

[Funkcase]

Saphra Deden wrote...

Funkcase wrote...

They did research that was skirting that law and when the Geth became sentient they broke the law,

No, they never broke the law. Ever. If they never crossed the line then they never crossed the line. What happened was an accident, not a crime. It wasn't even a particularly negligent crime considering sapience in the geth should have been impossible.

I think you're bilnded by how much you like the Quarians, I like them too but AI research is illegal, they may not have broke the law at first but they were always playing with fire. And genocide is a war crime, you cant just panic and choose to wipe out a sentient species, they might not be organic, but they're still living things.

Modifié par Funkcase, 17 octobre 2011 - 10:33 .