462 réponses à ce sujet

[zylas223]

As far as I know, geth should be referred to as "it", not "them"; Legion says as much during the first conversation - no individual, just geth. IMHO, it too is a factor in discussion whether quarian preemptive attack was justified - not all quarians were responsible for those events, and they all were killed regardless; the geth was responsible for what "they" did, so none of them is innocent.

[aiDvEoN]

Funkcase wrote...
Then the Quarians should NOT have played with fire, they took the risk of skirting the law and playing with AI.

As far as they knew, they weren't playing with AI.  No Blue Box hardware, no AI, just a sophisticated adaptive VI network that could blow the Turing Test to the next cluster.  By anyone's understanding of AI in universe, the Geth are an impossibility.  Which is probably a big part of why the quarians panicked so hard.

[Valdrane78]

Saphra Deden wrote...

wright1978 wrote...

Sorry but what part of any conversation with Quarians suggested that in any way they would even consider making diplomatic envoys to the Geth.

It amazes me how many people can play this game and miss so much not-so-well-hidden subtext.

Did you not even talk to Zaal K'oris? The entire purpose behind his side of Tali's trial was to send a message to the geth that the quarains as a whole did not approve of experiments on them or hostility toward them.

What I want to know is where is the equivalent sentiment from the geth? 'cause they sure as hell haven't attempted to reach out.

Even in the Tali/Legion conflict it is Tali who makes the diplomatic concession to try and improve ties.

The Geth are treating the Quarian homeworld as a giant memorial dedicated to the Quarians.  They are cleaning it up and makign it once again habitable for the Quarians, for when they do return.  Legion himself said this.  What thsi says to me is that the true Geth are not above reaching ouit to the Quarians, but given everythign that we know, the Qurians are all out determinned to get their homeworld back and destroy all Geth.  I get the distinct impression that thsi is more about revenge than getting their homeworld back.

[Zkyire]

AdmiralCheez wrote...

The quarians have never attempted to make peace with the geth. So when the geth go, "okay, here, have your homeworld back," the quarians would go "IT'S A TRAP" and the geth be like "no dude we're serious" and the quarians go "NO U KILLED OUR ANCESTORS" and then there's a war.

True story.

[Valdrane78]

Saphra Deden wrote...

Yes, Valdrane, but that also means the geth effectively ARE an enemy. They refuse any attempt at diplomacy and kill any trespassers. The rest of the galaxy never tried to herd the geth into the "enemy" slot, the geth are the ones who insisted on taking up that role.

So stop trying to portray them as an innocent party here.

You know..............I'm not tryign to portray them as the innocent party.  You are assumign that I am doign so simply because I don't agree with you that the Quarians are the totally innocent party, and have resorted to name calling because of it.  That is your problem not mine.

And why are they the enemy,  the onyl violence that the true Geth have done to anyone are the Quarians who tried to exterminate them and anyone who invaded their space.  I know, how dare they try to protect themselves or their territory.   I am going to fall back on my old arguement, you try to kill me or break into my house, you are damn right I am going to kick the crap out of you.

I never said that the Geth killing innocent civilians and children was the right thing to do.  But they over reacted, just like the Quarians did.  The Geh are not the ones holding the grudge here, they have no use for it.  The Quarians are the ones holding the grudge and still killing them in the name of that grudge.  As far as I am concerned the Quarians have learned nothing from their violent past.

[Quole]

Eckswhyzee wrote...

Quole wrote...

Ser Bard wrote...

AdmiralCheez wrote...

The quarians have never attempted to make peace with the geth. So when the geth go, "okay, here, have your homeworld back," the quarians would go "IT'S A TRAP" and the geth be like "no dude we're serious" and the quarians go "NO U KILLED OUR ANCESTORS" and then there's a war.

Yep this.

Quole wrote...
To be fair, the geth have never tried to communicate with them either. Or the rest of the galaxy for that matter. Whch is why EVERYONE sees them as a threat and not just the quarians. Apparently they enjoy letting the heretics represent them to the rest of the galaxy.

They built Legion and sent it to find Shepard to explain things but the Colllectors happened. 

So... Legion was their only attempt? So that proves my point.

Sorry, you can't have it both ways. If the Geth send Legion he's only one platform to spy on organics so they are isolationist, but if they don't send anyone that's also evidence for them being isolationist weirdoes?

Since when does evidence work like this?


Oh and what the Admiral said. As usual

Ummm sending ONE platform to spy on people dosnt make them NOT isolationists. Does anyone even know about Legion? Have the Geth tried to communicate with anyone? No. You rpoin tis completely irrelevent.

[ADLegend21]

They sent one because several platforms would raise alarms. Legion tell that when Shepard asks if there are more Geth like him.

[Quole]

Modifié par Quole, 17 octobre 2011 - 11:25 .

[Valdrane78]

aiDvEoN wrote...

Funkcase wrote...
Then the Quarians should NOT have played with fire, they took the risk of skirting the law and playing with AI.

As far as they knew, they weren't playing with AI.  No Blue Box hardware, no AI, just a sophisticated adaptive VI network that could blow the Turing Test to the next cluster.  By anyone's understanding of AI in universe, the Geth are an impossibility.  Which is probably a big part of why the quarians panicked so hard.

Very true, but (yes there is a but)  as per Tali's own story.  The Quarians knew that they were skirting the boundarie sof the law, and not knowing exactly the extent of what they were doing is no excuse for the eventuality of what did happen.  Wether they wanted to or not, they created AI, and by reacting t5o it the way they did brought about their own defeat and exile.

[ADLegend21]

Every quarian had Geth platforms serving them, so yes they are. Orders to permanently deactivate the Geth were sent to all Quarians systems and colonies. everywhere there were quarians, there were Geth and the Quarians ordered the Geth's genocide.

[Quole]

ADLegend21 wrote...

They sent one because several platforms would raise alarms. Legion tell that when Shepard asks if there are more Geth like him.

Right. And did that ONE platform try to communicate with anyone other than shepard? No. What dont you understand? Even after Legion descovered he died, Legion still didnt try to communicate with anyone.

Modifié par Quole, 17 octobre 2011 - 11:30 .

[General User]

SkyeHawk89 wrote...

And I'm curious too most people here that are replying. Do you understand the situations, why they don't like one another? There should be peace between them. I don't like how people are either with the Quarians or Geth. Why not have peace, like them both?

The Quarians were Using The Geth as Slave Labore, The Geth Revolt fought back. The Quarians soon retreated ended up in Space. Many many years later they are still stuck in the past the both Species. That how I understand the situations, I too like and enjoy both species. They should make Peace the two of them, work together not have War. I think peace will be wonderful. (Can't edit.)

Of course peace is wonderful.  But people (be they humans, aliens, or robots) have reasons for fighting.  If try to make a peace deal between two sides of a conflict without resolving any of the issues between them, you're just setting everyone up for failure.

And whether the issues between the quarians and the geth can be resolved by peaceful means or not, the geth giving the quarians Rannoch is just silly... for a number of reasons.

Modifié par General User, 17 octobre 2011 - 11:34 .

[Quole]

ADLegend21 wrote...

Every quarian had Geth platforms serving them, so yes they are. Orders to permanently deactivate the Geth were sent to all Quarians systems and colonies. everywhere there were quarians, there were Geth and the Quarians ordered the Geth's genocide.

1. Yes, I am sure the children deserved to die because of that.
2. You dont know that EVERY Quarian had a geh servant. Also, what do you mean by servant? DO you mean personal slaves? Or do you mean they were just the workforce?
3. You dont even know that all the quarians were aware of the geth becoming sapient. tHey literall could have just got an order from the government telling them to shut them down immediately for no given reason.

Modifié par Quole, 17 octobre 2011 - 11:31 .

[BlueMagitek]

The Geth really don't need the Quarian homeworld, that is correct. But they don't have any reason in particular to give it to them, especially when faced with constant (warranted) hostility. We know that when the Geth rose up, they attacked organics, not only Quarians (remember that Asari's mate on Illium?). It cost the Quarians the majority of their population, their lifestyle and the galaxy's consensus on them.

We can bark about who was right and who was wrong until the space cows come home, but as to the actual topic, there's no reason to give an enemy something they want above all else without major concessions. >_>

[Valdrane78]

Saphra Deden wrote...

Valdrane78 wrote...

And why are they the enemy,

They are unwilling to engage in diplomacy or communicating of any kind beyond violence. That makes them an enemy. They also invaded the rest of the galaxy, or did you forget that part?

Just the Heretics you say? Well the geth knew what the Heretics were planning and they APPROVED of it. Remember that? They APPROVED of the Heretic/geth split and that they should follow their own path. They didn't bring any warning to the rest of the galaxy or try to stop the Heretics. The geth are, until shown otherwise, enemies. They may also be enemies of the Heretics but they are not friends of ours. At best they are temporary allies of convenience, and this is all the geth's doing.

I am going to fall back on my old arguement, you try to kill me or break into my house, you are damn right I am going to kick the crap out of you.

Ohhhh... so now it's only if I try to kill you, huh? I guess you wised up when I warned you about the possible consequences of your overzealous protection of your property and loved ones. Hey, for the record I don't blame you. Someone breaks into your house I think you have the right to shoot them, but there are a few problems with this. Namely, that your analogy doesn't compare at all to the one concering the geth and the rest of the galaxy.

The galaxy is not a quiet suburb where everyone can live in peace and never interact. It is a hostile place of competing powers and interests and the geth are too volatile to be allowed to live in isolation where they can plot anything against the rest of the galaxy that they wish. Like, for example, an invasion of the Attican traverse and Citadel.

You need to think your position through. I'm guess you weren't in Military Intelligence.

The true Geth didn't invade our galaxy the Heretics did, or are you lumping all the Geth together?  The true Geth only sent Legion and that is hardly an invasion.  And no the Geth didn't approve of it, they let them go on their merry way.  Not saying it was right, but letting soemone do something of their own free will hardly bites of approval.  So your arguement is invalid. 

Also, Legion is my ally, a multi-program single platform Geth.  He helped me destroy the Collector threat, now I have no idea if the rest of the Geth will join myself or Legion in ME3, but we'll see and then act accordingly.  However I did destroy the Heretic threat, since they are the obvious enemies who I have personally seen act against my cause and multipel species int he galaxy.

And no, you try to hurt my family I will protect them, it is my right as someone with free will to protect myself and my family from harm.  If there is a price to pay for it so be it, I will gladly pay it if my family is free of harm.  And yes, that analogy is prefect, you are just blinded by your love of the Quarians, you are biased. The Quarians tried to destroy them, the Geth acted in self defense and killed them in return forcing them off their planet.  The Quarians awoke the Geth to perform weapons tests on them, the Geth then acted in self defense and killed the Quarians, and in return the Quarians acted against the Geth who them became a threat and sent Shep in to kill them..  Quarians, Humans, Asari whatever entered Geth space unnounced and unwelcome, and in return got killed by the Geth.

It's called a cycle, and oen way or the other something has to give, and if the Quarians don't show me they have learned from their past mistakes then I won't have their back, and that goes for the Geth as well.

[ADLegend21]

Quole wrote...

ADLegend21 wrote...

Every quarian had Geth platforms serving them, so yes they are. Orders to permanently deactivate the Geth were sent to all Quarians systems and colonies. everywhere there were quarians, there were Geth and the Quarians ordered the Geth's genocide.

1. Yes, I am sure the children deserved to die because of that.
2. You dont know that EVERY Quarian had a geh servant. Also, what do you mean by servant? DO you mean personal slaves? Or do you mean they were just the workforce?
3. You dont even know that all the quarians were aware of the geth becoming sapient. tHey literall could have just got an order from the government telling them to shut them down immediately for no given reason.

1.) when oyu go to war, if it's for keeps you wipe out the new, possibly vengeful next generation, everyone knows that.
2.) from what you have form Legion the quarians had personal slaves, they grouped them for bigger tasks and that's how the neural network came to be. slaves, not work force, slaves.
3.)Theyw ere aware after they began asking about souls, that's when the order was given to shut them down eofre they gain sapience but they already had. There were no histile intentions BEFORE the quarians attacked, there' no changing that no matter how you try to spin it to make the Geth look bad the quarians started the war and got defeated. for once, it's black and white.

[General User]

Submachiner wrote...
I could understand if they felt threatened and needed to defend themselves. I don't think Geth promote a threat to Organics at all. They were threatened with extinction by Quarians and defended themselves.

You don't think a militantly isolationist, utterly alien people, with a massive fleet that already, not defeated but mercilessly crushed one Citadel member-race and has X% of their number actively worshiping the Reapers and following them on a galaxy wide jihad represents a threat?

It's a universal truth, any group of people are only peaceful until they decide not to be.  The geth are no different.

Submachiner wrote...
Maybe the Quarians aren't that peaceful non-violent species they make themselves out to be. 

Which quarians did this?  When and how did they do it?

[ADLegend21]

Quole wrote...

ADLegend21 wrote...

They sent one because several platforms would raise alarms. Legion tell that when Shepard asks if there are more Geth like him.

Right. And did that ONE platform try to communicate with anyone other than shepard? No. What dont you understand? Even after Legion descovered he died, Legion still didnt try to communicate with anyone.

He did, he was active on the extranet, he has game accounts to study organics interaction with one another, he even started a hoax hat mobilized governements. Legion was sent to broker an allianc e with shepard and therefore organics, he studied them and sent results back to the real geth. what aren't YOU getting quole? Legio didn't spend two years in sleep mode until the game started, he was doing what he was supposed to do and did it very well I might add.

[Quole]

ADLegend21 wrote...

Quole wrote...

ADLegend21 wrote...

They sent one because several platforms would raise alarms. Legion tell that when Shepard asks if there are more Geth like him.

Right. And did that ONE platform try to communicate with anyone other than shepard? No. What dont you understand? Even after Legion descovered he died, Legion still didnt try to communicate with anyone.

He did, he was active on the extranet, he has game accounts to study organics interaction with one another, he even started a hoax hat mobilized governements. Legion was sent to broker an allianc e with shepard and therefore organics, he studied them and sent results back to the real geth. what aren't YOU getting quole? Legio didn't spend two years in sleep mode until the game started, he was doing what he was supposed to do and did it very well I might add.

..... ok, I know you are upset... but trolling is never the answer. I expect more from you.

Modifié par Quole, 18 octobre 2011 - 12:25 .

[Kelwing]

I think the Quarians only need to ask the Geth and set aside their differences. Least that is what I took from legion in ME2.