462 réponses à ce sujet

[ADLegend21]

Dean_the_Young wrote...

atheelogos wrote...

"Both Creators and Created must complete their halves of the equation. The geth cannot solve for peace alone."
One side wants peace the other wants war. That's why it hasn't happened yet.

The Geth send no emissionaries, and kill all other emissionaries. The Quarians have people at the highest levels trying to send symbols of peaceful intent, and repudiate the past crimes. Which one is which, by your standard?

Envoys were sent to rannoch. The Geth were removing rubble and other harmful things (to quarians) from teh planet. Alien germs and diseases are harmful to them so they were removed.

Also the Geth sent Legion. They sent him alone because , as Legion says, multiple platform aor a fully stocke dship would raise alarm after what happened on the Citadel. He studied organics, interacted with them over the extranet, and sent his findings back to the Geth. while indirect, they are working towards peace as they build their dysonsphere.

[mulder1199]

hmm, didn't read the whole post and it's semi related....i'd really like a side quest where we have to help the quarians to settle a new homeworld....

[jbblue05]

ADLegend21 wrote...

Dean_the_Young wrote...

atheelogos wrote...

"Both Creators and Created must complete their halves of the equation. The geth cannot solve for peace alone."
One side wants peace the other wants war. That's why it hasn't happened yet.

The Geth send no emissionaries, and kill all other emissionaries. The Quarians have people at the highest levels trying to send symbols of peaceful intent, and repudiate the past crimes. Which one is which, by your standard?

Envoys were sent to rannoch. The Geth were removing rubble and other harmful things (to quarians) from teh planet. Alien germs and diseases are harmful to them so they were removed.

Also the Geth sent Legion. They sent him alone because , as Legion says, multiple platform aor a fully stocke dship would raise alarm after what happened on the Citadel. He studied organics, interacted with them over the extranet, and sent his findings back to the Geth. while indirect, they are working towards peace as they build their dysonsphere.

I don;t think peace is the right word.  Their are just like any other government gathering intelligence to properly protect their own.  If the Geth really wanted peace they would be more formal and not send spies

Modifié par jbblue05, 18 octobre 2011 - 07:01 .

[Thompson family]

Dean_the_Young wrote...

The Geth send no emissionaries, and kill all other emissionaries. The Quarians have people at the highest levels trying to send symbols of peaceful intent, and repudiate the past crimes. Which one is which, by your standard?

Just a quibble more than disagreement.

The quarians have a member of the Admiralty Board, Adm. Koris, who seeks a reconcilliation but the key word here is "trying." He hasn't got consensus to make any such overtures and, in fact, his views are decidedly in the minority. While Gerrel and Xen don't exactly agree, both are dead set against finding any accomodation with the Geth.

Legion sought out Shep because Shep not only fought the Heretics but fought and defeated the "old machines." Significantly, it was Shep who brought up the possibility of a Geth-Quarian peace, not Legion. To Legion and Geth thinking, there appears to be no possibility of peace because the Quarians have never sought it or even indicated they considered it.

The key development here is not what happened three centuries ago or what has happened since. The key factor here is Quarian wander weariness. They are so tired of their nomadic existence, they'd seriously consider a near-suicidal attack on the Geth rather than keep moving. That's what's propelling this situation toward a resolution. Even Koris would prefer colonizing a new world -- which Tali says would mean the difference between "60 years and 600" as far as acclimating themselves compared to taking back the homeworld.

[Thompson family]

ADLegend21 wrote...

Envoys were sent to rannoch. The Geth were removing rubble and other harmful things (to quarians) from teh planet. Alien germs and diseases are harmful to them so they were removed.

Also the Geth sent Legion. They sent him alone because , as Legion says, multiple platform aor a fully stocke dship would raise alarm after what happened on the Citadel. He studied organics, interacted with them over the extranet, and sent his findings back to the Geth. while indirect, they are working towards peace as they build their dysonsphere.

I'm clearly in favor of a Geth-Quarian peace, but let's not gloss over the huge problems, either.

The Geth did not send envoys to Rannoch. The Quarians were gone. The Geth sent clean-up crews. That's a fine gesture, as you say, but you don't send a peace delegation to Arlington National Cemetary.

As for the Geth sending Legion, you could argue Legion is a spy or scout. And Legion was not sent to the Quarians. He was sent to seek to seek out Shep, because Shep fought the old machines.

Right now, Shep is the only one who can be an honest broker between the two, at least if played that way.

Modifié par Thompson family, 18 octobre 2011 - 07:12 .

[CamlTowPetttingZoo]

BlueMagitek wrote...

^ To be fair to the Geth, the Council has banned AI and would probably like them destroyed and the Quarians hate the Geth for the entire genocide. >_>

Sending an emissary would likely be shunned, they probably came to the consensus that it wasn't worth it, right or wrong as that consensus may be.

Speaking of AI, Is there a reason that is given as to why they are illegal? I get the sense that they were before the whole geth thing happened. Yeah they can be dangerous but isn't it worse to not know the intentions of something so powerful and then let something happen that just escalates without any understanding of its thought process.

[BlueMagitek]

jreezy wrote...

BlueMagitek wrote...

^ To be fair to the Geth, the Council has banned AI and would probably like them destroyed and the Quarians hate the Geth for the entire genocide. >_>

Sending an emissary would likely be shunned, they probably came to the consensus that it wasn't worth it, right or wrong as that consensus may be.

You mean the Quarians hate the Geth because the Quarians' act of genocide was foiled right?

The Quarians hate the Geth because the Geth's genocide (and murder of non Quarians) was more successful than the Quarian attempt to genocide the Geth, yes.

[CptBomBom00]

hahahahaahhahaahaahhahaahhaahha.

Poor quarians got their asskicked and be driven out from their homeplanet.

[Swimming Ferret]

BlueMagitek wrote...

^ To be fair to the Geth, the Council has banned AI and would probably like them destroyed and the Quarians hate the Geth for the entire genocide. >_>
.

You are aware Quarians are still alive, right?

The Quarians attacked first, the Geth kicked their butts, and the Quarians now fly about the galaxy, typically viewed as annoyances. Their own fault really, though they could move forward but their attitude and behaviour really isn't helping.

[BlueMagitek]

^ Oh, I'm sorry, is the killing of 99% of the population (including the home planet) not enough to qualify as genocide to you? Hence the word "genocide" as opposed to "rendered extinct".

[Someone With Mass]

Thompson family wrote...

I'm clearly in favor of a Geth-Quarian peace, but let's not gloss over the huge problems, either.

The Geth did not send envoys to Rannoch. The Quarians were gone. The Geth sent clean-up crews. That's a fine gesture, as you say, but you don't send a peace delegation to Arlington National Cemetary.

As for the Geth sending Legion, you could argue Legion is a spy or scout. And Legion was not sent to the Quarians. He was sent to seek to seek out Shep, because Shep fought the old machines.

Right now, Shep is the only one who can be an honest broker between the two, at least if played that way.

This.

Also, if I'm going to send races to a certain death just because their political leaders are in a disagreement, then I can might as well become a political assassin, because ALL goverments' politicians are in disagreement over certain topics to some capacity.

[Dean_the_Young]

ADLegend21 wrote...

Dean_the_Young wrote...

atheelogos wrote...

"Both Creators and Created must complete their halves of the equation. The geth cannot solve for peace alone."
One side wants peace the other wants war. That's why it hasn't happened yet.

The Geth send no emissionaries, and kill all other emissionaries. The Quarians have people at the highest levels trying to send symbols of peaceful intent, and repudiate the past crimes. Which one is which, by your standard?

Envoys were sent to rannoch. The Geth were removing rubble and other harmful things (to quarians) from teh planet. Alien germs and diseases are harmful to them so they were removed.

No, that's not why they destroy any ships entering any Geth space. Yes, killing emissionaries is bad even if you have insane/stupid environmental beliefs.

Also the Geth sent Legion. They sent him alone because , as Legion says, multiple platform aor a fully stocke dship would raise alarm after what happened on the Citadel. He studied organics, interacted with them over the extranet, and sent his findings back to the Geth. while indirect, they are working towards peace as they build their dysonsphere.

Legion wasn't sent to make contact with organics or seek any sort of peace. Legion was sent to find Shepard because the Reapers threaten the Geth.

The Geth have had hundreds of years to send so much as an email via the extranet to start a dialogue if they wanted to establish any sort of normal peaceful relations. They have refused to do so.

[Dean_the_Young]

atheelogos wrote...

Dean_the_Young wrote...

atheelogos wrote...

"Both Creators and Created must complete their halves of the equation. The geth cannot solve for peace alone."
One side wants peace the other wants war. That's why it hasn't happened yet.

The Geth send no emissionaries, and kill all other emissionaries. The Quarians have people at the highest levels trying to send symbols of peaceful intent, and repudiate the past crimes. Which one is which, by your standard?

Who the hell did the Quarians send with a msg of peace?  I know the Geth did IE Legion.

There's a game called 'Mass Effect 2' in which a Quarian Admiral attempts a politically-motivated exile of Tali Zorah in order to send a signal that the Quarians are trying to change.

[Dean_the_Young]

NeroSparda wrote...

Dean_the_Young wrote...

atheelogos wrote...

"Both Creators and Created must complete their halves of the equation. The geth cannot solve for peace alone."
One side wants peace the other wants war. That's why it hasn't happened yet.

The Geth send no emissionaries, and kill all other emissionaries. The Quarians have people at the highest levels trying to send symbols of peaceful intent, and repudiate the past crimes. Which one is which, by your standard?

Legion is probably the first form of an emissionary, considering that before their (Legion) creation: No Geth platform was able to speak to an Organic. Also only 1/3, at most though unlikely that much, of the Quarians want peace with the Geth. Everyone else want to either destroy them OR take control of them again by force.

What? We have historical records of Geth speaking organic. Legion gives us a audio of a Geth asking if it has soul. Geth have, since their creation, been able to communicate with organics. Nor does communication require a Legion-sized intermediary. Not when Geth can commune via super-computer and talk on the extranet.


1/3 of a race trying to reach out and send signals of peace is still 33% more than the Geth who have tried contacting the Quarians and establishing any sort of dialogue for peace. The next Geth sent to make peace with the Quarians will be the first.

Everyone else would be less inclined to view the Geth as threats to be neutralized or co-opted if the Geth bothered to present the smallest possible posture of peaceful intent and basic diplomacy.

[sorentoft]

I think it is safe to say that Geth do not truly understand organics and organics do not truly understand Geth.

[SandTrout]

atheelogos wrote...

Yes your right. The tyrants/Quarian want peace by destroying or enlaving their children.... I can see how that might lead to war. Try not to lose sight of who was the real bad guy in the Morning War

Yeah, the Council was the real bad guy for threatening the Quarians for violating anti AI laws, therefor forcing the Quarians' hand in the issue, then leaving them to be exterminated when it hit the fan.

[atheelogos]

Dean_the_Young wrote...

atheelogos wrote...

Dean_the_Young wrote...

atheelogos wrote...

"Both Creators and Created must complete their halves of the equation. The geth cannot solve for peace alone."
One side wants peace the other wants war. That's why it hasn't happened yet.

The Geth send no emissionaries, and kill all other emissionaries. The Quarians have people at the highest levels trying to send symbols of peaceful intent, and repudiate the past crimes. Which one is which, by your standard?

Who the hell did the Quarians send with a msg of peace?  I know the Geth did IE Legion.

There's a game called 'Mass Effect 2' in which a Quarian Admiral attempts a politically-motivated exile of Tali Zorah in order to send a signal that the Quarians are trying to change.

Legion never met him and Shep hasn't even mentioned Qwib Qwib. On top of that he didn't want to exile her to prove anything to the Geth. He did it cuz he thought it could help prevent a war.

So I ask again. Who did the Quarians send with a msg of peace?

Modifié par atheelogos, 19 octobre 2011 - 12:44 .

[atheelogos]

sorentoft wrote...

I think it is safe to say that Geth do not truly understand organics and organics do not truly understand Geth.

There is some truth to that, but with that said I think they have a greater understanding of us then we do of them. I mean they have been studying us for hundreds of years right? It only makes sense.

[SandTrout]

atheelogos wrote...

Legion never met him and Shep hasn't even mentioned Qwib Qwib. On top of that he didn't want to exile her to prove anything to the Geth. He did it cuz he thought it could help prevent a war.

So I ask again. Who did the Quarians send with a msg of peace?

Ok, let me explain something here. The Quarians and Geth were at peace until the events of ME1 when the Heretics began their invasion. There was no violence between the two species for the past 3 Centuries. All diplomatic missions that were sent into Geth space over those three centuries were destroyed by the Geth, but they did not attack anyone else.

That peace was broken by the Heretics, which was assumed to be associated with the Geth in general until ME2 and Legion makes the claim that the Heretics are simply a splinter of the Geth, and not representative of the species as a whole. Even then, Legion only states that the Geth recognize the common threat of the Reapers rather than any general desire for diplomatic realtions with organics.

[didymos1120]

Dean_the_Young wrote...
There's a game called 'Mass Effect 2' in which a Quarian Admiral attempts a politically-motivated exile of Tali Zorah in order to send a signal that the Quarians are trying to change.

Um, no.  Him favoring peace was his motivation for demanding exile.  He never said a thing about expecting the geth to be aware of that trial.  What, you think he'd have issued an extranet press release about it?  Quarians don't operate like that.  This was a strictly internal matter.  He didn't even anticipate that his little renaming ploy would backfire and they'd actually allow a non-quarian to participate as her captain.

[sorentoft]

atheelogos wrote...

sorentoft wrote...

I think it is safe to say that Geth do not truly understand organics and organics do not truly understand Geth.

There is some truth to that, but with that said I think they have a greater understanding of us then we do of them. I mean they have been studying us for hundreds of years right? It only makes sense.

Obviously their knowledge has grown, but since they are a synthetic race they would have a difficult time to truly understand the empathy that other races feel. Three-hundred years ago (in lore) they did not have as much data as they do now, they could not make a decision like trying to make peace as it would be illogical to them. Now however, with Legion, we can see that the attitude of shoot-first-study-later might be coming to a halt, at least for a little time. They are beginning to be able to predict the actions of organics more accurately, just like we can.

I do not think that the Geth has a greater understanding of humanity than it itself does simply because they are not just different races, they are two entirely different forms of life (you could even debate if the Geth is truly life). It is extremely difficult for such two races to relate compared to two humans for example. That is not saying that humanity would not understand the Geth in time, the Geth do after all act purely on logic (as they see it) which can make them predictable (I would even say asking Shepard of what do to in the loyalty mission is logical - they're close to a 50/50 and thus go for one with experience dealing with heretics).

[Thompson family]

I don't think the Geth know how to negotiate. It's not that they lack the intelligence. They simply don't have empathy. They also have nothing they really want except to be left alone. This is why they've stayed behind the Perseus Veil for 300 years.

Look at Legion. He wasn't sent to negotiate with Shep, but to learn and observe. That Legion's supposed to make contact is implied but not necessarily the case. His real mission is to find out how to fight the "old machines," which is what "Shepard Commander" does best. This is why Legion's on the derelict Reaper, after all, to counter the Reaper virus threat.

The Geth have never needed anything and now, suddenly, they need assistance to survive the Reaper threat.. The scene where Shep tells Tali and Legion to "stop fighting this war" and Legion agrees (if Shep takes the Paragon option) that to "preserve unit cohesion," he will not transmit information to the rest of the Geth is not just the first successful "deal" struck between the Geth and any organic (Legion joining the crew doesn't count: There's nothing to negotiate because the goals are the same.) The decision to withhold information from the rest of the Geth is absolutely unprecedented. Sharing information is what the Geth do. It is who they are. The only time in their history when they withheld information from each other was during the Geth-Heretic split when the two camps didn't talk.

Modifié par Thompson family, 19 octobre 2011 - 03:25 .

[ADLegend21]

jbblue05 wrote...

ADLegend21 wrote...

Dean_the_Young wrote...

atheelogos wrote...

"Both Creators and Created must complete their halves of the equation. The geth cannot solve for peace alone."
One side wants peace the other wants war. That's why it hasn't happened yet.

The Geth send no emissionaries, and kill all other emissionaries. The Quarians have people at the highest levels trying to send symbols of peaceful intent, and repudiate the past crimes. Which one is which, by your standard?

Envoys were sent to rannoch. The Geth were removing rubble and other harmful things (to quarians) from teh planet. Alien germs and diseases are harmful to them so they were removed.

Also the Geth sent Legion. They sent him alone because , as Legion says, multiple platform aor a fully stocke dship would raise alarm after what happened on the Citadel. He studied organics, interacted with them over the extranet, and sent his findings back to the Geth. while indirect, they are working towards peace as they build their dysonsphere.

I don;t think peace is the right word.  Their are just like any other government gathering intelligence to properly protect their own.  If the Geth really wanted peace they would be more formal and not send spies

Really? Oh yeah Organics just had to defend their political capital from the faction of us that split. Let's send a giant ass Ship ther to tell them we mean no harm, they won't think we're teh same geth they fought and attack us on sight or anything.