355 réponses à ce sujet

[Staminoo]

Thats why I didn't make my own thread . Will there be a toggle for it? Maybe "tactical gamer" mode and "guy who doesn't want to pick up glimmering cubes" mode? : P

[Tony Gunslinger]

Computer_God91 wrote...

Bluko wrote...

I still don't buy this story. Some random gameplay programmer happens to think adding "ammo" is a great idea and despite the fact that Casey and Preston are both against it at first, they manage to turn the other cheek? Look I've played my fair share of shooters and the way ammo is implemented in this game does not impress me in the least.

No I think the real story is much different and that the idea of Thermal Clips came from a different source. But I have no evidence to support this other then my own beliefs so I won't waste anyone's time.


I probably would take a lot less issue with Thermal Clips if they had simply called it ammo to begin with, because Thermal Clips are indeed ammo. I honestly don't think I would have had a single second thought had guns in ME2 simply actually used Ammo Blocks. But Thermal Clips are just a laughable cover up. Seriously who would go from guns with near infinite ammo to finite ammo? Nobody. The idea that it's a step forward technologically speaking is preposterous.

Seriously there's so much flawed with Thermal Clips I don't even know to begin.

For starters: Why aren't they reusable in any capacity?
(Yay let's leave magazines/shell casings all over the place to give ourselves away!)

How do you preserve the individual "shots" from a Thermal Clip that was in use? 
(Hint: It's not possible. In modern shooters this is somewhat excusable as you can refill a magazine with individual bullets. You cannot reuse part of an overheated thing unless it cooled down enough to be reused entirely.) 

Every gun is really capable of using a universal clip?
(Gee good thing all that heat can be directed into something that's only an inch long and 1-2cm in diameter. I'm sure weapons would just melt otherwise.)

Why can't guns be fired if you're out of Thermal Clips?
(So if you use Thermal Clips your gun becomes utterly useless if you run out? Yeah that's so smart weapon design there I tell ya.)

Why can't I allocate all my Thermal Clips towards the weapon I'm using? Why must Shepard always evenly stockpile everything?
(What if I just wanna use my AR most of the time?)

How come enemies and squadmates never run out of Thermal Clips?


The sad thing the answer to all these questions: Herp derp Gameplay!

The overheating mechanic is too hard for your average gamer's mind to comprehend! You need to give them an exact bullet count so they can know exactly how many times to shoot since keeping an eye on heat gauage is so much worse! It also lets them reload whenever they want greatly reducing any risk they could incur during firefights. Ideas like burst fire, controlling your rate of fire, LOL what's that? Professional soldiers just unload like this until they need to reload!



(Don't worry there's no confirmation of Ducks/Geth Hoppers in ME3 at this time. So everything should be pretty easy for you to shoot.)


Now I know some of you are going to say: Well ME1 was broken cause of Frictionless Materials and Spectre Weapons! Therefore overheating sucks!

Yes indeed Frictionless Materials were broken in the context that you could fire your weapon with little to no heat build up. Solution? Remove Frictionless Materials/Heat Sinks maybe.


Nah it's a far better idea to scrap the entire system on the basis that one of the weapons mod is broken. I mean come on...

As for Spectre Weapons they were intentionally made to be "Overpowered" so you could plow through the end game faster as a reward for getting that far. (You know that simple idea that gaining XP in a RPG eventually makes you more proficient...) Yeah go figure using Spectre Weapons in NG+ makes the rest of the game pretty easy!


When I ask for an overheat system I am asking for it to be implemented with the otherwise improved gameplay aspects of ME2.

I am not asking for:
-An exact return of ME1 gun gameplay
-Frictonless mods that let you fire forever
-Spraying and praying
-Lots of generic weapons

I am simply asking the ME2 guns use an overheat meter instead of relying of a fixed supply of Thermal Clips.

Seriously what does picking up Thermal Clips add to the game in terms of enjoyment? Is it that amazingly fun to pick up orange glowing objects?

Some say it adds to the Challenge. The Challenge should come from the games A.I. If the Devs don't want you to camp behind cover then the onus should be on them to creat A.I. that attempts to flank and or flush you out of cover. (Like with grenades...) Having ammo randomly lying around is not a real good incentive for forcing the player to move because it's completely stupid to get yourself shot up just so you can "shoot some more".

Nervemind the fact that certain weapons in ME2 are almost never at risk of running out of ammo (SMGs and ARs) where as others are only good for killing a handful of enemies before you must look for clips. How is this well balanced? If the game was truly balanced all the weapons would be roughly capable of killing the same of enemies and resupply at an equivalent rate. This is not the case at all ME2. What you have is a clear case of certain weapons being the "end all" and the others more or less novelties.


Anyways since it seems were stuck with Thermal Clips I must insist they at least be somewhat improved upon going into ME3. (My issue with Thermal Clips is I simply do not find them enjoyable. They did not make the game "too hard" for me or any such thing. Cause honestlyly I found ME2 a much more easy to game to play. I mean I sure died a lot less then I did in ME1. It would be more correct to say I think Thermal Clips make Mass Effect "too easy".)

If Thermal Clips are to be in ME3 I'd ask...

1)That actually  they be universally used between weapons 
2) That once you eject a clip you cannot make any use of it's remaing shots

So something like this:



If you are truly serious about Thermal Clips adding "tension" to the battle then making every Thermal Clip valuable should only be a boon to the game experience. Of course if your only interest is to have a very easy-to-play TPS then by all means leave Thermal Clips exactly as they are. We wouldn't want any teenagers to find the game too difficult (never mind the fact it's made for adults to begin with...) and rage quit now would we? 

For you TL:DR people. Go ahead and read that.

Everything is gameplay, Computer_God91 and Bluko, including guns with a thousand rounds built in and happens to overheat.

- If my Avenger overheats when I shoot 50 shots, why don't the manufacturer just program it to stop shooting at 49 and wait for 1.5 secs? All it takes is one line of code. Overheating is just another gamey thing to stop you from becoming OP.

- The point of getting uber Spectre guns at the end and making it a level progression is a gamey thing. In the real world, there is no such thing as a super rare gun that only one person in the galaxy can acquire, while rest of the other commerical guns perform so horribly yet they all somehow passed basic testing and gone into production. Sure in the real world, some guns are better than others, but not in the huge gap you see between a Lancer I and a Spectre X. It's a game thing.

- Yes, you should be challenged by enemies, and enemies do flank you in ME2, and they flank you all the time. I don't know where you get the exaggerated idea that you win every fight by staying in one place.

- And yes, limited ammo is introduced because compared to the overheating thing, conventional ammo makes the game:

1) more fluid action 2) free the designers to make very unique guns that differ between each other 3) the very different qualities of these guns changes the way you play, therefore adding more variety and options in the way you build your character.

If you don't believe that conventional ammo made ME better, then try this: put duct tape at the bottom left corner of your monitor/TV, play ME1 and then play ME2. Without the heat meter in ME1, you're screwed. On the other hand, you don't need to look at the ammo count in ME2 and you can focus all of your attention on the battlefield.

You can argue that the overheating mechanic is a challenge that skilled players can master, but is it really a relevant skill to master at all? All overheating does is take away my concentration from the combat. I'd rather be tested by the elements on the battlefield instead of wrestling with my equipment; I'd rather pay attention to my enemy to see if he's about to attack or about to take cover, to see if he's reloading or flanking, I'd rather pay attention to my environment and think about where to go for cover, where to retreat, where to advance, and plan my next steps instead of looking at an overheating meter.

If you're really bothered by the lore issue, then I suggest you first take a really good look at how ridicuous of the idea that guns are made to overheat in the middle of a dogfight.

TL;DR - thermal clips are better.

[tonnactus]

didymos1120 wrote...


That'd be Casey Hudson:

“Some of the best ideas in ME2 happened that way, where a passionate member of the team took their own time to try something they thought would be great, and it eventually passed harsh scrutiny to become part of the experience.”

Yes,very passionate and innovative to include a conventional ammo system...
Whoever believes this absurd story.

[tonnactus]

randomchasegurney wrote...

I'm going to ask why an overheat system requires thought when all I ever used was an assault rifle and immunity to win.

W + M1 + immunity = easy street for all difficulties.

For those who play insanity starting from level 60...
Sure.
If starting from level one,there is some time needed before getting master immunity...
And some people didnt play as soldiers.

[The Spamming Troll]

Tony Gunslinger wrote...

1) more fluid action 2) free the designers to make very unique guns that differ between each other 3) the very different qualities of these guns changes the way you play, therefore adding more variety and options in the way you build your character.

If you don't believe that conventional ammo made ME better, then try this: put duct tape at the bottom left corner of your monitor/TV, play ME1 and then play ME2. Without the heat meter in ME1, you're screwed. On the other hand, you don't need to look at the ammo count in ME2 and you can focus all of your attention on the battlefield.

You can argue that the overheating mechanic is a challenge that skilled players can master, but is it really a relevant skill to master at all? All overheating does is take away my concentration from the combat. I'd rather be tested by the elements on the battlefield instead of wrestling with my equipment; I'd rather pay attention to my enemy to see if he's about to attack or about to take cover, to see if he's reloading or flanking, I'd rather pay attention to my environment and think about where to go for cover, where to retreat, where to advance, and plan my next steps instead of looking at an overheating meter.

If you're really bothered by the lore issue, then I suggest you first take a really good look at how ridicuous of the idea that guns are made to overheat in the middle of a dogfight.

TL;DR - thermal clips are better.

the need to reload makes the game more fluid? id think its alot easier to NOT have to reload, and let your gun fill your ammo on its own. overheating weapons make the game more fluid becuase i dont have to reload my gun, i have freed up a button that doesnt need to be used for reloading, and i dont ever have to worry about picking up more ammo. micro managing amoo doesnt equal fluid gameplay!

TCs didnt offer variety in weapons, the designers actually made more then one weapon. you dont think ME2s weapons could function with an overheat mechanic? TCs have nothing to do with weapon variety.

overheating offered a unique feel to combat. to me it almost defined ME1s combat. TCs are the most basic ammo system in any game, they dont need an explanation on how they work in the ME videogame.  nothing youve said makes me thing TCs ARE better. as a matter offact it makes me think you dont really know what your talkign about, and are only into what current idea bioware is trying out on you.

its sortof pathetic people keep saying "yea, bro TCs make the game tactical. the end." as if that was even true at all.

Modifié par The Spamming Troll, 19 octobre 2011 - 04:26 .

[Barry Bathernak]

The Spamming Troll wrote...

Tony Gunslinger wrote...

1) more fluid action 2) free the designers to make very unique guns that differ between each other 3) the very different qualities of these guns changes the way you play, therefore adding more variety and options in the way you build your character.

If you don't believe that conventional ammo made ME better, then try this: put duct tape at the bottom left corner of your monitor/TV, play ME1 and then play ME2. Without the heat meter in ME1, you're screwed. On the other hand, you don't need to look at the ammo count in ME2 and you can focus all of your attention on the battlefield.

You can argue that the overheating mechanic is a challenge that skilled players can master, but is it really a relevant skill to master at all? All overheating does is take away my concentration from the combat. I'd rather be tested by the elements on the battlefield instead of wrestling with my equipment; I'd rather pay attention to my enemy to see if he's about to attack or about to take cover, to see if he's reloading or flanking, I'd rather pay attention to my environment and think about where to go for cover, where to retreat, where to advance, and plan my next steps instead of looking at an overheating meter.

If you're really bothered by the lore issue, then I suggest you first take a really good look at how ridicuous of the idea that guns are made to overheat in the middle of a dogfight.

TL;DR - thermal clips are better.

the need to reload makes the game more fluid? id think its alot easier to NOT have to reload, and let your gun fill your ammo on its own. overheating weapons make the game more fluid becuase i dont have to reload my gun, i have freed up a button that doesnt need to be used for reloading, and i dont ever have to worry about picking up more ammo. micro managing amoo doesnt equal fluid gameplay!

TCs didnt offer variety in weapons, the designers actually made more then one weapon. you dont think ME2s weapons could function with an overheat mechanic? TCs have nothing to do with weapon variety.

overheating offered a unique feel to combat. to me it almost defined ME1s combat. TCs are the most basic ammo system in any game, they dont need an explanation on how they work in the ME videogame.  nothing youve said makes me thing TCs ARE better. as a matter offact it makes me think you dont really know what your talkign about, and are only into what current idea bioware is trying out on you.

its sortof pathetic people keep saying "yea, bro TCs make the game tactical. the end." as if that was even true at all.

your completly right if i dont have to worry about ammo i can focus 100x times better on the battlefeild, but if my gun cant run out ammo but can overeat then its impossible to focus on the battlefeild since i'll have to ask myself did i shoot 6 shots or 1? i guess i'll have to be a lucky...punk.

[Staminoo]

The spamming troll really has it on the button. No reloading -did- define ME1 combat for me and I was a crappy sniper/recon guy. I switched to the nerfed soldier in ME2..so I got the worst of both games.

Reloading for no reason stinks. If ME1 didn't already have the better system then it would be no big deal. Since ME2 took a huge step backwards its a bummer.

[The Spamming Troll]

^i agree with your agreement.

Barry Bathernak wrote...

your completly right if i dont have to worry about ammo i can focus 100x times better on the battlefeild, but if my gun cant run out ammo but can overeat then its impossible to focus on the battlefeild since i'll have to ask myself did i shoot 6 shots or 1? i guess i'll have to be a lucky...punk.

there is a certain pacing that each weapon has with overheating in ME1. its easy to watch the status of semi auto weapons like shotguns or sniper rifles, the difficult weapons were ARs and pistols. but moreso becasue the overheat bar was hard to watch while shooting. but you also have to keep in mind your weapon will cooldown over time. so it wont matter how many shots the overheat weapons has, because itll always be fully stocked in X amount of time. TC guns will require much more effort, like reloading, finding ammo, and being stupid.

Modifié par The Spamming Troll, 20 octobre 2011 - 02:45 .

[Bluko]

Tony Gunslinger wrote...
Everything is gameplay, Computer_God91 and Bluko, including guns with a thousand rounds built in and happens to overheat.

Yeah I know that.

But my point was even for gameplay reasons TCs/Ammo are not the end-all-be-all.

Tony Gunslinger wrote...
- Yes, you should be challenged by enemies, and enemies do flank you in ME2, and they flank you all the time. I don't know where you get the exaggerated idea that you win every fight by staying in one place.

Oh really?

The A.I. in almost all the levels is heavily scripted to follow certain paths and take cover at certain objects. A few enemies will try to advance/flank (you can't flank someone in a corridor though...) and after you kill those most of the rest will simply shoot you from their prescribed camping spot. I mean yes you have your LOKI/Husk zombies, Varren/Dog Mechs, and the occasional crazy Krogan. But most enemies in ME2 do not advance past certain points. And these enemies are usually easy to kill since they simply Charge! In the end it makes the A.I. very exploitable and why ME2 isn't that hard even on Insanity since there is little or no variability to the A.I.'s tactics/spawns.

True ME1's A.I. isn't much better. But at least once enemies are aware of your presence they make an effort to kill you by getting in your face and Biotic Throwing your butt on the floor. No doubt ME1 could be frustrating at times as a result. But it's a helluva lot better then the entire game being a simple rinse and repeat process.

Tony Gunslinger wrote...
1) more fluid action 2) free the designers to make very unique guns that differ between each other 3) the very different qualities of these guns changes the way you play, therefore adding more variety and options in the way you build your character.

More Fluid? Fluid to me implies seamless transitions or a steady pace. Combat in ME2 is notoriously interrupted by the need to reload and or look for ammo.

There's no reason you couldn't have different guns with an Overheat Mechanic.

As I remember the Assault Rifle, Pistol, Shotgun, and Sniper Rifle in ME1 were all unique even though they shared the same Overheat Mechanic. Do you honestly believe that an Overheat Mechanic would make it impossible to have the Vindicator as weapon in ME2?

Tony Gunslinger wrote...
If you don't believe that conventional ammo made ME better, then try this: put duct tape at the bottom left corner of your monitor/TV, play ME1 and then play ME2. Without the heat meter in ME1, you're screwed. On the other hand, you don't need to look at the ammo count in ME2 and you can focus all of your attention on the battlefield.

Okay I don't know about you, but I didn't really watch my overheat meter anymore then my ammo count meter. I guess some folks had to watch their overheat meter all the time rather then bother to learn the rate they can fire at. Personally I find it about as easy to memorize the rate of heat build up as I do keep tracking of every single individual bullet fired.

But thanks for pointing out that ammo does indeed make the game less challenging. As you said you don't really need to ever look at your ammo count in order to play as you can pretty much blindly reload whenever you need to without a second thought or concern. I'll give you credit for being honest though, as most folks can't admit to liking something that makes games easier for them to play.

Tony Gunslinger wrote...
You can argue that the overheating mechanic is a challenge that skilled players can master, but is it really a relevant skill to master at all? All overheating does is take away my concentration from the combat. 

Well I believe that part of the reason video games are any fun at all is overcoming challenges gives the player a sense of accomplishment. I play games to have fun, but to also challenge myself a little in the process.

If the Devs truly do not want us to worry about our weapons then why is there ammo to begin with? Why not just let us simply shoot as much as we want with no worries of reloading, overheating, or running out of ammo? I believe they don't, because they do want to challenge players somewhat.

I very much see the Overheat Mechanic as a relevant skill as it imposes the idea of learning to control your rate of fire. Knowing how to properly use your weapon is essential for any kind of combat; be it with the hand, sword, or gun. And even though this is just a video game I believe that aspect should remain true here as well. Rather then simply unload an entire clip into an enemy like you do now with Thermal Clips, the Overheat Mechanic, if implemented properly, enforces the idea to fire in short controlled bursts. 

Relying on the fact that the Widow only has 11 shots is not what I'd consider a high mark of skill. I'd be far more impressed by someone who could kill 20 Geth without a single instance of overheating then someone who manages to kill 10 Geth Troopers with the Widow. Bravo you managed to kill as many enemies as the extremely artificial Developer constraints allow you to! Here's a cookie or should I say achievement?

Granted ME1 did not implement Overheating Mechanics perfectly and by the end-game you could more or less have weapons that let you fire non-stop.

But it did offer a unique and rewarding experience for those players who could be bothered to learn and to adapt to something that didn't necessarily play like every other shooter out there. It's unfortunate that ME2 and ME3 will not provide players with anything like this and will simply take the easy route towards gameplay.

[Barry Bathernak]

The Spamming Troll wrote...

Barry Bathernak wrote...

your completly right if i dont have to worry about ammo i can focus 100x times better on the battlefeild, but if my gun cant run out ammo but can overeat then its impossible to focus on the battlefeild since i'll have to ask myself did i shoot 6 shots or 1? i guess i'll have to be a lucky...punk.

there is a certain pacing that each weapon has with overheating in ME1. its easy to watch the status of semi auto weapons like shotguns or sniper rifles, the difficult weapons were ARs and pistols. but moreso becasue the overheat bar was hard to watch while shooting. but you also have to keep in mind your weapon will cooldown over time. so it wont matter how many shots the overheat weapons has, because itll always be fully stocked in X amount of time. TC guns will require much more effort, like reloading, finding ammo, and being stupid.

da f**k is your point? that focusing on the heat level of a gun is more distracting then checking how much ammo you have left, reloding,and finding ammo.that makes no sense,oooh i must always watch my heat level instead of the battle.

[Praetor Knight]

Has the OP moved on from this thread?

This topic sure makes for long discussions!

[clopin]

Playing through ME1 again, and I'm finding that watching my heat is more of a bear than looking for ammo. Finding ammo is easy, and reloading's fast. Getting worried about whether you should fire that extra shot, or risk overheating and waiting 2-4 seconds to fire again is just an extra headache on top of poor gun play.

[1136342t54_]

clopin wrote...

Playing through ME1 again, and I'm finding that watching my heat is more of a bear than looking for ammo. Finding ammo is easy, and reloading's fast. Getting worried about whether you should fire that extra shot, or risk overheating and waiting 2-4 seconds to fire again is just an extra headache on top of poor gun play.

To be honest that isn't a problem once you get high grade weapons and some mods to decrease the rate of overheating. At a certain point your gun can just keep shooting and it is unlikely it will every overheat. While cool was a bit OP. Add that in with many things that can make your character overpowered and Insane wouldn't be a problem. ME2 is more difficult all around then ME1. Don't get me wrong the ammo system didn't make it more difficult really it was the lack of mods to keep your gun from overheating.

I'd be happy with a hybrid overheat/thermal clip system like it says in the lore.

[clopin]

1136342t54 wrote...

clopin wrote...

Playing through ME1 again, and I'm finding that watching my heat is more of a bear than looking for ammo. Finding ammo is easy, and reloading's fast. Getting worried about whether you should fire that extra shot, or risk overheating and waiting 2-4 seconds to fire again is just an extra headache on top of poor gun play.

To be honest that isn't a problem once you get high grade weapons and some mods to decrease the rate of overheating. At a certain point your gun can just keep shooting and it is unlikely it will every overheat. While cool was a bit OP. Add that in with many things that can make your character overpowered and Insane wouldn't be a problem. ME2 is more difficult all around then ME1. Don't get me wrong the ammo system didn't make it more difficult really it was the lack of mods to keep your gun from overheating.

I'd be happy with a hybrid overheat/thermal clip system like it says in the lore.

So it's either you have to worry about your headache of a gun, or your rifle is an unstoppable god-killer?

Eh, I'll stick with my ammo based game. I thought one of the devs said they tried a combined system, but it didn't work out well?

[1136342t54_]

clopin wrote...

So it's either you have to worry about your headache of a gun, or your rifle is an unstoppable god-killer?

Eh, I'll stick with my ammo based game. I thought one of the devs said they tried a combined system, but it didn't work out well?

Considering that you can use a combined ammo system in a PC mod then I'm not so sure about that claim.

[capn233]

This has gone to the point of being ludicrous.

If you play ME much you can get a feel of how hot the weapon gets without overheating. It isn't much different than knowing how many shots you fired in ME2.

Thermal clips do add a bit more challenge to the game since you have to somewhat manage your shots and if you run out that is it, you have to find some more. And while some are countering that there is "unlimited ammo" in ME2, there is never unlimited ammo when you sit in one place like there is in ME.

I have to wonder why some complain so much about it though. It isn't the largest adjustment to make to use the clips. It doesn't make the game any less streamlined to reload than it did to wait for marksman or overkill to cool down which were the only things that made the ME guns remotely effective on the high difficulties.

Modifié par capn233, 20 octobre 2011 - 04:10 .

[1136342t54_]

capn233 wrote...

This has gone to the point of being ludicrous.

If you play ME much you can get a feel of how hot the weapon gets without overheating. It isn't much different than knowing how many shots you fired in ME2.

Thermal clips do add a bit more challenge to the game since you have to somewhat manage your shots and if you run out that is it, you have to find some more. And while some are countering that there is "unlimited ammo" in ME2, there is never unlimited ammo when you sit in one place like there is in ME.

I have to wonder why some complain so much about it though. It isn't the largest adjustment to make to use the clips. It doesn't make the game any less streamlined to reload than it did to wait for marksman or overkill to cool down which were the only things that made the ME guns remotely effective on the high difficulties.

Its basically another reason to complain or being pissy about not being able to fire without giving a **** about ammo or even overheating (due to mods). There is really not much of a negative or even postive difference between the change in ammo systems.

[capn233]

Yeah that is the thing... really the ammo system doesn't do a whole lot except punish people who shoot willy nilly. That's about it. Most everything else that changes the combat in between the two games result from other changes, not the least of which are changes to protections, cooldowns, and relative damage output versus regen rate on enemies.

edit: forgot to mention.  Noticed a comment above about insanity in ME.  Absulutely right on that it is much harder in the beginning than ME2 if you start from scratch.  The default weapons overheat relatively quickly, don't do much damage, and the enemies still can spam immunity and have decent regen.  The difficulty scaling in ME made it more unfair in the beginning than ME2.

Modifié par capn233, 20 octobre 2011 - 04:20 .

[Staminoo]

I just don't like picking up totally arbitrary "heat sinks" and its just such an embarrassing way of implementing ammo that its a shame it ever happened.

Is reloading easy? Yes. Does every single game with guns have it besides ME1? Yes. Do I like reloading? No. Do I like looking around for bullets? No. This game used to take place in the future where I don't run out of ammo. It now takes place in some strange dimension where I never shoot any of my more limited ammo guns just in case I actually need them for something more significant later on in the mission.

Not fun + lame "lore" = bad

The reason this topic creates long threads is because it is probably the biggest bummer that has ever happened to a video game this beloved in a long long time.

For ME3 the thermal clip system should just be revealed to be a Cerberus scam and the galaxy has since switched back to their superior infinite ammo guns that were considered "obsolete" during ME2. Then me, along with my sweet ladies ashley and miranda, and my best buddy rex can all laugh about it as we barrel through space haphazardly aboard the Normandy.

Modifié par Staminoo, 20 octobre 2011 - 06:06 .

[Zanallen]

Why is this discussion still going on? ME3 is going to have thermal clips. The reasons for the change between cool down and heat sinks has been discussed ad nauseum and the lore has been explained time and again. You either like it or you don't.

[Staminoo]

No sir, I don't like it.

Discuss.

Modifié par Staminoo, 20 octobre 2011 - 06:28 .

[Amaterasuomikami]

I love the thermal clip system. When I got access to spectre assault rifles it was too easy to stick with that for a whole mission.

[Shepard the Leper]

Bluko wrote...

More Fluid? Fluid to me implies seamless transitions or a steady pace. Combat in ME2 is notoriously interrupted by the need to reload and or look for ammo.

I dunno what you're doing, but I'm not reloading all day long for the lulz. Besides, reloading (+clipsize) is basically the same thing as waiting for your weapon to cool down. The only difference between the two systems is, you can potentially burn your own guns making them useless for the rest of the mission.

I also think it's funny to hear people who celebrate the "traditional" RPGs complain about picking up a clip or two every couple of minutes. But they somehow think it's awesome to have a crapload of useless junk to loot.

There's no reason you couldn't have different guns with an Overheat Mechanic.

Sure, but you always end up with less guns.

As I remember the Assault Rifle, Pistol, Shotgun, and Sniper Rifle in ME1 were all unique even though they shared the same Overheat Mechanic. Do you honestly believe that an Overheat Mechanic would make it impossible to have the Vindicator as weapon in ME2?

We won't have stuff like the Avalanche - for example.

But thanks for pointing out that ammo does indeed make the game less challenging. As you said you don't really need to ever look at your ammo count in order to play as you can pretty much blindly reload whenever you need to without a second thought or concern. I'll give you credit for being honest though, as most folks can't admit to liking something that makes games easier for them to play.

You are saying that having unlimited ammo makes things harder than a system where you can run out of ammo. I dunno what you have been smoking, but it must be pretty powerful stuff.

I very much see the Overheat Mechanic as a relevant skill as it imposes the idea of learning to control your rate of fire. Knowing how to properly use your weapon is essential for any kind of combat; be it with the hand, sword, or gun. And even though this is just a video game I believe that aspect should remain true here as well. Rather then simply unload an entire clip into an enemy like you do now with Thermal Clips, the Overheat Mechanic, if implemented properly, enforces the idea to fire in short controlled bursts.

 

I think you're confusing ME1 with ME2. You CANNOT shoot continiously in ME2 - you, however, can in ME1. So what's your point exactly?

I'm also surprised by your explanation about "knowing how to properly use your weapons". I never met an instructor telling me to focus on a cooldown meter instead of the battlefield.

Relying on the fact that the Widow only has 11 shots is not what I'd consider a high mark of skill. I'd be far more impressed by someone who could kill 20 Geth without a single instance of overheating then someone who manages to kill 10 Geth Troopers with the Widow. Bravo you managed to kill as many enemies as the extremely artificial Developer constraints allow you to! Here's a cookie or should I say achievement?

You also have an odd view about a "challenge" because I don't see what's so hard about killing 20 goons without overheating your Widow (which is the most simplistic weapon combined with the overheat-system). A weapon which has a limited number of shots is ALWAYS more challenging than a weapon that can shoot forever.

When ammo comes in limited supply it has value; when money comes in limited supply it has value. Both will make you think when and how to best use your (limited) resources. When you have unlimited ammo, funds, skillpoints, health etc etc - things will ALWAYS get easier (aka boring). 

But it did offer a unique and rewarding experience for those players who could be bothered to learn and to adapt to something that didn't necessarily play like every other shooter out there. It's unfortunate that ME2 and ME3 will not provide players with anything like this and will simply take the easy route towards gameplay.

No, they take the only sensible route. It's hilarious to hear people like you demonstrate their ignorance and arrogance with the claim "it's not something you see in shooters". Did you know there's a lot of action in shooters? Explosions? Combat? Movement? Teammates? Objectives? etc etc. I guess Bioware should abandon those features too, right? We don't want shooter elements in our beloved games.

Seriously, grow up and learn something about design before posting such nonsense. Re-designing the wheel isn't the best way forward you know.

[Callidus Thorn]

I loved the overheating system in ME1, I generally used the sniper rifle, which in my opinion needs the overheat mechanic, just to slow it down more. It was more tactical. In ME2 I'd just switch weapon if I ran out of ammo, in ME1 if your weapon overheated you chose between waiting for it to cool down (which should've taken longer imo) or changing weapon.

All they needed to do was tweak the ME1 system to make overheating unavoidable and more of a problem, and the result would have been far more challenging than the thermal clip system.

[Gabey5]

Callidus Thorn wrote...

I loved the overheating system in ME1, I generally used the sniper rifle, which in my opinion needs the overheat mechanic, just to slow it down more. It was more tactical. In ME2 I'd just switch weapon if I ran out of ammo, in ME1 if your weapon overheated you chose between waiting for it to cool down (which should've taken longer imo) or changing weapon.

All they needed to do was tweak the ME1 system to make overheating unavoidable and more of a problem, and the result would have been far more challenging than the thermal clip system.

You want challenging? Don't pick up so much ammo and raise the difficulty.The clips make the gameplay far more smooth and i am glad they were introduced. Mass Effect gameplay was clunky and the guns made no sense from a lore perspective. In the future you expect me to believe our guns have gotten worse in terms of reload time? And you wanted LONGER cooldowns? Glad you are in the minority.