355 réponses à ce sujet

[Crawlingkingsnake]

CptBomBom00 wrote...

Crawlingkingsnake wrote...

CptBomBom00 wrote...

So are we talking about thermal clips or lipstick.

We could also be talking about Shep's har. And Tex mod....

I would rather try to keep to topic as close as possible.
No offence and I would really like to see shepard in da dress.

1) Sorry, once you start a discussion on Broshep having make-up, you can't reverse it.....
2) I KNOW! That would make him the greatest hero ever! And in the epilouge, every man in the galaxy would wear a dress so that they could be manly like Shepard!

[Bigdoser]

Widow with infinite ammo? Now that would be really broken.

[Zakatak757]

Computer_God91 wrote...

Gabey5 wrote...

Computer_God91 wrote...

I understand gameplay reasons for thermal clips, though I still disagree, but the lore reasoning was pathetic.

preventing overheating from mass effect 1? That seems reasonable, in the future allowing your gun to be usless for that long a period of time makes no sense

No. The Geth's logic is pathetic, because Bioware couldn't come up with a good reason to ditch the system they had and add ammo for all the whiners and for more money.

1. Except it isn't. Battles are not what you see in video games, genius, and they ARE won by who can put out the most bullets. It's called "suppressive fire" and prevents the enemy from being able to react to yours. This is why you always have somebody with a medium/light machine gun and 200 round belt laying down fire on the enemy. Geth logic is definetly sound.

2. Gosh, God forbid Bioware tries to make the majority of ME players happy and gain more funds by using a proven system that works infinitely better in gameplay! Get your cynical ass out of here.

The main reason BW changed the ammo system was because the ME1 gun mechanics were absolutely terrible.

Modifié par Zakatak757, 17 octobre 2011 - 10:11 .

[sael_feman]

They are ammo clips by another name.

Either have energy weapons with thermal heat sinks, or projectile rifles with ammunition. But a mass effect 'railgun' with heat sinks and no visible projectilve, huh?

It seems inefficient to me.

S'F'

[didymos1120]

The Spamming Troll wrote...

The point i took away from TCs is that whoever at bioware is making those decisions, is making the wrong ones. 

That'd be Casey Hudson:

“One of the most controversial changes to the combat was probably how ammo works,” Hudson goes on. “It was something that wasn’t part of the main game design but instead was implemented as a test by a gameplay programmer. The Lead Designer [Preston Watamaniuk] was against the idea, but tested the ‘ammo’ version of the game for several weeks in total secrecy before concluding that it made a huge improvement to the tension and pacing of combat. Then when he pitched it to me, I was against it until I played it for a while and was convinced as well. Some of the best ideas in ME2 happened that way, where a passionate member of the team took their own time to try something they thought would be great, and it eventually passed harsh scrutiny to become part of the experience.”

[didymos1120]

Jorina Leto wrote...

didymos1120 wrote...

Never mind the what they've said in interviews about this subject.

Like admitting it?

I don't see a single word about thermal clips in there.  Got anything else?

[Computer_God91]

Zakatak757 wrote...

1. Except it isn't. Battles are not what you see in video games, genius, and they ARE won by who can put out the most bullets. It's called "suppressive fire" and prevents the enemy from being able to react to yours. This is why you always have somebody with a medium/light machine gun and 200 round belt laying down fire on the enemy. Geth logic is definetly sound.

Here's the problem, which I have explained before but have lost the thread so here it goes again.

The Geth say this:

Mathematically reviewing their combat logs, the geth found that in an age of kinetic barriers, most firefights were won by the side who could put the most rounds down-range the fastest. But combatants were forced to deliberately shoot slower to manage waste heat, or pause as their weapons vented.

Thermal clips don't mean you can put more bullets down range the quickest. It means you can run out of "ammo" entirely. A massive flaw. In a fight between people using thermal clips and people using overheating guns. The people with overheating weapons will win every time. Why? Because we know you can run out of thermal clips, thus making you unable to use the weapon completely. Where people using overheating weapons, IF they are careless, they can overheat their guns for about 2-5 seconds. Yes, that is an extremely long time in a firefight but we also know that through modification overheating can be avoided entirely to the point of your weapon never overheating. So all you have to do, even without mods that stop overheating completely, is let your enemies ****** all their "ammo" down range until they're out of thermal clips, walk up and put a pistol in their mouth and fire. Firefight won because the idiots using thermal clips ran out of thermal clips and could no longer fire their guns. A MASSIVE flaw. Where as the people with overheating weapons never run out of "ammo".

Zakatak757 wrote...
2. Gosh, God forbid Bioware tries to make the majority of ME players happy and gain more funds by using a proven system that works infinitely better in gameplay! Get your cynical ass out of here. 

The main reason BW changed the ammo system was because the ME1 gun mechanics were absolutely terrible.

I'm not being cynical, Bioware failed to explain why these clips are better then overheating. They abandoned their lore for gameplay mechanics. When all they needed to do was fix the system already in place. Instead they cowared back to ammo because they couldn't figure out a way to make overheating work. Which I, and many others, could have spat out several ways to make it work properly without pissing on the lore. Something to me that is a fail.

That's alright though, because I've agrued with people on BSN before. I know they are a solid wall, so I don't expect you to understand.

[Zakatak757]

Computer_God91 wrote...

Zakatak757 wrote...

1. Except it isn't. Battles are not what you see in video games, genius, and they ARE won by who can put out the most bullets. It's called "suppressive fire" and prevents the enemy from being able to react to yours. This is why you always have somebody with a medium/light machine gun and 200 round belt laying down fire on the enemy. Geth logic is definetly sound.

Here's the problem, which I have explained before but have lost the thread so here it goes again.

The Geth say this:

Mathematically reviewing their combat logs, the geth found that in an age of kinetic barriers, most firefights were won by the side who could put the most rounds down-range the fastest. But combatants were forced to deliberately shoot slower to manage waste heat, or pause as their weapons vented.

Thermal clips don't mean you can put more bullets down range the quickest. It means you can run out of "ammo" entirely. A massive flaw. In a fight between people using thermal clips and people using overheating guns. The people with overheating weapons will win every time. Why? Because we know you can run out of thermal clips, thus making you unable to use the weapon completely. Where people using overheating weapons, IF they are careless, they can overheat their guns for about 2-5 seconds. Yes, that is an extremely long time in a firefight but we also know that through modification overheating can be avoided entirely to the point of your weapon never overheating. So all you have to do, even without mods that stop overheating completely, is let your enemies ****** all their "ammo" down range until they're out of thermal clips, walk up and put a pistol in their mouth and fire. Firefight won because the idiots using thermal clips ran out of thermal clips and could no longer fire their guns. A MASSIVE flaw. Where as the people with overheating weapons never run out of "ammo".

Zakatak757 wrote...
2. Gosh, God forbid Bioware tries to make the majority of ME players happy and gain more funds by using a proven system that works infinitely better in gameplay! Get your cynical ass out of here. 

The main reason BW changed the ammo system was because the ME1 gun mechanics were absolutely terrible.

I'm not being cynical, Bioware failed to explain why these clips are better then overheating. They abandoned their lore for gameplay mechanics. When all they needed to do was fix the system already in place. Instead they cowared back to ammo because they couldn't figure out a way to make overheating work. Which I, and many others, could have spat out several ways to make it work properly without pissing on the lore. Something to me that is a fail.

That's alright though, because I've agrued with people on BSN before. I know they are a solid wall, so I don't expect you to understand.

But why do would WANT that dreadful overheating to return? Once you bought a high-grade weapon, you could hold down the trigger for eternity without worry, totally killed the gameplay.

And when has thermal clips every been more of a liability then overheating? Time your gun spends malfunctioning is time your enemy (which could be charging Krogan on blood-rage) spends getting closer to you.

Again, when we play as Shepard, we assume EVERYONE fights like Shepard, charging through hundreds of enemies at a time. No. Troops in Afghanistan carry 7-8 magazines with them by standard, and running out of ammo is a non-issue. I assume that your standard turian/Alliance soldier would carry a stack of 6-9 thermal clips, and for your average grunt, that is all you could ever possibly need.

[The Spamming Troll]

didymos1120 wrote...

The Spamming Troll wrote...

The point i took away from TCs is that whoever at bioware is making those decisions, is making the wrong ones. 

That'd be Casey Hudson:

“One of the most controversial changes to the combat was probably how ammo works,” Hudson goes on. “It was something that wasn’t part of the main game design but instead was implemented as a test by a gameplay programmer. The Lead Designer [Preston Watamaniuk] was against the idea, but tested the ‘ammo’ version of the game for several weeks in total secrecy before concluding that it made a huge improvement to the tension and pacing of combat. Then when he pitched it to me, I was against it until I played it for a while and was convinced as well. Some of the best ideas in ME2 happened that way, where a passionate member of the team took their own time to try something they thought would be great, and it eventually passed harsh scrutiny to become part of the experience.”

B.S.

it dosnt take more gameplay of TCs in order to appreciate them. TCs are the most basic ammo system ever created! if it takes something like TCs in order for the devs to be set straight, i AM playing the wrong friggin game. id like a response not pulled off the wiki page, or some random quote. i need to infiltrate bioware and have one of his close buddies get the real answer. prolly have to get him drunk.

preseton watlamaniac: "Hey casey, try out htis new ME2 feature i added!!! its the most basic ammo system ive ever played!!!! and it totally adds tension and paceing!! woah bro! but the infiltrator only gets 11 sniper bullets, but yeah man, TCs are the future, BRO!"

casey hudson: "yeah, who cares what we did in ME1!!! BYE BYE."

whatever tho. im fully expecting to be dissapointed with TCs in ME3 as well.

Modifié par The Spamming Troll, 17 octobre 2011 - 11:52 .

[Computer_God91]

Zakatak757 wrote...

But why do would WANT that dreadful overheating to return? Once you bought a high-grade weapon, you could hold down the trigger for eternity without worry, totally killed the gameplay.

That bolded part was really hard to read. Anyway, why do I want it to return? Cause I liked it. It made sense.

Zakatak757 wrote...
Time your gun spends malfunctioning is time your enemy (which could be charging Krogan on blood-rage) spends getting closer to you. 

Again, when we play as Shepard, we assume EVERYONE fights like Shepard, charging through hundreds of enemies at a time. No. Troops in Afghanistan carry 7-8 magazines with them by standard, and running out of ammo is a non-issue. I assume that your standard turian/Alliance soldier would carry a stack of 6-9 thermal clips, and for your average grunt, that is all you could ever possibly need.

Here is the thing, you argue in reality and then talk about how it's better in gameplay. Can you pick a side to argue here? My arguement works both in reality as well as in gameplay, anyway. In both cases the problem is that one side can run out of ammo and one side can't. In reality and in gameplay it's a huge advantage. All the side with infinite ammo needs to do is last until the other side runs out of ammo and walk up and dome them. That's it, there is nothing to argue about. That is what would happen if they could waste all the enemies "ammo".

I agree, that system was broken gameplay wise. It needed to be fixed not replaced by something that makes no sense to the established lore. But really it's no suprise at all, ME2 does a ton of things that make no sense to the established lore and in its own story so why would I expect anything better?

Something else to think about. In reality you don't have guys holding down the trigger for a minute straight there is a pause in fire. During that time the gun would be cooling. So again there is no reason why overheating weapons are an issue, with or without mods that make them unable to overheat.

Zakatak757 wrote...
And when has thermal clips every been more of a liability then overheating?

Since their existance. If you can run out of ammo versus something that can't that's a massive flaw.

Modifié par Computer_God91, 18 octobre 2011 - 12:04 .

[Sgt Stryker]

Computer_God91 wrote...

The Geth say this:

Mathematically reviewing their combat logs, the geth found that in an age of kinetic barriers, most firefights were won by the side who could put the most rounds down-range the fastest. But combatants were forced to deliberately shoot slower to manage waste heat, or pause as their weapons vented.

Thermal clips don't mean you can put more bullets down range the quickest. It means you can run out of "ammo" entirely. A massive flaw. In a fight between people using thermal clips and people using overheating guns. The people with overheating weapons will win every time. Why? Because we know you can run out of thermal clips, thus making you unable to use the weapon completely. Where people using overheating weapons, IF they are careless, they can overheat their guns for about 2-5 seconds. Yes, that is an extremely long time in a firefight but we also know that through modification overheating can be avoided entirely to the point of your weapon never overheating. So all you have to do, even without mods that stop overheating completely, is let your enemies ****** all their "ammo" down range until they're out of thermal clips, walk up and put a pistol in their mouth and fire. Firefight won because the idiots using thermal clips ran out of thermal clips and could no longer fire their guns. A MASSIVE flaw. Where as the people with overheating weapons never run out of "ammo".

Yeah, people with overheating weapons would never run out of ammo, until their ammo block ran out, that is. Again, you're mixing up gameplay with lore. In fact, if ME1 guns were to accurately obey lore, then there should be a number that starts out at 4000, and gradually decreases as you shoot.

Guns in the MEverse do not magically pull bullets out of the ether, despite what gameplay mechanics might indicate. By the same logic, thermal clip heat sinks do not violate thermodynamics and retain heat for all time, despite what gameplay mechanics might show.

[Computer_God91]

Sgt Stryker wrote...

Yeah, people with overheating weapons would never run out of ammo, until their ammo block ran out, that is. Again, you're mixing up gameplay with lore. In fact, if ME1 guns were to accurately obey lore, then there should be a number that starts out at 4000, and gradually decreases as you shoot.

Guns in the MEverse do not magically pull bullets out of the ether, despite what gameplay mechanics might indicate. By the same logic, thermal clip heat sinks do not violate thermodynamics and retain heat for all time, despite what gameplay mechanics might show.

Exactly, they still can run out of ammo, but not nearly as fast as people using "thermal clips". Reloading once every 20 firefights is better then once every 10-20 seconds.

[Zakatak757]

Ya, what he said.

Let's have a pair of M-8 Avengers. Regardless of what cooling system you choose to install, both would last from 3000 to 5000 rounds before being replaced. The only difference is how they cool themselves, and I see the thermal clip system being much less risky for the average soldier.

[Computer_God91]

The Spamming Troll wrote...

preseton watlamaniac: "Hey casey, try out htis new ME2 feature i added!!! its the most basic ammo system ive ever played!!!! and it totally adds tension and paceing!! woah bro! but the infiltrator only gets 11 sniper bullets, but yeah man, TCs are the future, BRO!"

Yup that is one other thing that makes me pissed off about Thermal Clips. Now you have classes specifically built to operate one way and you can't play them that way when you only have 11 rounds to use.

[Computer_God91]

Zakatak757 wrote...

Ya, what he said.

Let's have a pair of M-8 Avengers. Regardless of what cooling system you choose to install, both would last from 3000 to 5000 rounds before being replaced. The only difference is how they cool themselves, and I see the thermal clip system being much less risky for the average soldier.

..What? I'm having a hard time figuring out who "he" is. And what are you suggesting? That we should be able to pick our ammo style?

[BlaCKRodjj]

Computer_God91 wrote...

Zakatak757 wrote...

1. Except it isn't. Battles are not what you see in video games, genius, and they ARE won by who can put out the most bullets. It's called "suppressive fire" and prevents the enemy from being able to react to yours. This is why you always have somebody with a medium/light machine gun and 200 round belt laying down fire on the enemy. Geth logic is definetly sound.

Here's the problem, which I have explained before but have lost the thread so here it goes again.

The Geth say this:

Mathematically reviewing their combat logs, the geth found that in an age of kinetic barriers, most firefights were won by the side who could put the most rounds down-range the fastest. But combatants were forced to deliberately shoot slower to manage waste heat, or pause as their weapons vented.

Thermal clips don't mean you can put more bullets down range the quickest. It means you can run out of "ammo" entirely. A massive flaw. In a fight between people using thermal clips and people using overheating guns. The people with overheating weapons will win every time. Why? Because we know you can run out of thermal clips, thus making you unable to use the weapon completely. Where people using overheating weapons, IF they are careless, they can overheat their guns for about 2-5 seconds. Yes, that is an extremely long time in a firefight but we also know that through modification overheating can be avoided entirely to the point of your weapon never overheating. So all you have to do, even without mods that stop overheating completely, is let your enemies ****** all their "ammo" down range until they're out of thermal clips, walk up and put a pistol in their mouth and fire. Firefight won because the idiots using thermal clips ran out of thermal clips and could no longer fire their guns. A MASSIVE flaw. Where as the people with overheating weapons never run out of "ammo".

Zakatak757 wrote...
2. Gosh, God forbid Bioware tries to make the majority of ME players happy and gain more funds by using a proven system that works infinitely better in gameplay! Get your cynical ass out of here. 

The main reason BW changed the ammo system was because the ME1 gun mechanics were absolutely terrible.

I'm not being cynical, Bioware failed to explain why these clips are better then overheating. They abandoned their lore for gameplay mechanics. When all they needed to do was fix the system already in place. Instead they cowared back to ammo because they couldn't figure out a way to make overheating work. Which I, and many others, could have spat out several ways to make it work properly without pissing on the lore. Something to me that is a fail.

That's alright though, because I've agrued with people on BSN before. I know they are a solid wall, so I don't expect you to understand.

Think about it. A TC is basically a heat sink. It's the same heat sink as the ones from the weapons that have it incorporated within, except that the weapons can switch heat sinks. Now, i'll use the same example as Zakatak757. During a combat situation, switching TCs increases the amount of "bullets" the force using the TCs, while the other group has to wait for the weapons to cooldown after supressing fire. YOU DO NOT RUN OUT OF TCs because they can cool off just the same as the heat sinks from the overheating weapons. The number of ammo you have left shown during gameplay is just the number of times you can shoot before the heat sink overheats. If the TCs can cool off because they're heat sinks, they can simply pick them up. Gameplay-wise, it uses the ammo system, but the lore behind them remains the same, as they're simple heat sinks.

[didymos1120]

The Spamming Troll wrote...

B.S.

No, you just don't like it.  Doesn't mean that's not why they did it.

preseton watlamaniac: "Hey casey, try out htis new ME2 feature i added!!! its the most basic ammo system ive ever played!!!! and it totally adds tension and paceing!! woah bro! but the infiltrator only gets 11 sniper bullets, but yeah man, TCs are the future, BRO!"

casey hudson: "yeah, who cares what we did in ME1!!! BYE BYE."

I imagine the actual conversation was a bit more...literate.

whatever tho. im fully expecting to be dissapointed with TCs in ME3 as well.

I expect you will be too.

[Computer_God91]

BlaCKRodjj wrote...

Think about it. A TC is basically a heat sink. It's the same heat sink as the ones from the weapons that have it incorporated within, except that the weapons can switch heat sinks. Now, i'll use the same example as Zakatak757. During a combat situation, switching TCs increases the amount of "bullets" the force using the TCs, while the other group has to wait for the weapons to cooldown after supressing fire. YOU DO NOT RUN OUT OF TCs because they can cool off just the same as the heat sinks from the overheating weapons. The number of ammo you have left shown during gameplay is just the number of times you can shoot before the heat sink overheats. If the TCs can cool off because they're heat sinks, they can simply pick them up. Gameplay-wise, it uses the ammo system, but the lore behind them remains the same, as they're simple heat sinks.

Ok, so then why don't they work like they should then? Why the hell can't my gun cool off after I run out of heat sinks? the one inside should cool off. Oh wait, it doesn't. That makes me rage.

[Sgt Stryker]

Because then all players have to do is go to the fridge and grab a beer while their Widow ammo recharges.

[Computer_God91]

Sgt Stryker wrote...

Because then all players have to do is go to the fridge and grab a beer while their Widow ammo recharges.

Ok hear out this idea. You don't regenerate all your ammo with just the one heat sink only how much fits in a clip or the thermal clip regularly, i.e. 2 rounds. So give it a sec and 2 rounds, overheated still no thermal clips, wait a sec 2 rounds.

OMFG problem solved.

[BlaCKRodjj]

Computer_God91 wrote...

BlaCKRodjj wrote...

Think about it. A TC is basically a heat sink. It's the same heat sink as the ones from the weapons that have it incorporated within, except that the weapons can switch heat sinks. Now, i'll use the same example as Zakatak757. During a combat situation, switching TCs increases the amount of "bullets" the force using the TCs, while the other group has to wait for the weapons to cooldown after supressing fire. YOU DO NOT RUN OUT OF TCs because they can cool off just the same as the heat sinks from the overheating weapons. The number of ammo you have left shown during gameplay is just the number of times you can shoot before the heat sink overheats. If the TCs can cool off because they're heat sinks, they can simply pick them up. Gameplay-wise, it uses the ammo system, but the lore behind them remains the same, as they're simple heat sinks.

Ok, so then why don't they work like they should then? Why the hell can't my gun cool off after I run out of heat sinks? the one inside should cool off. Oh wait, it doesn't. That makes me rage.

FFS, it's a gameplay mechanic, I was explaining it lore-wise. Why is it so hard to understand that the weapon system in ME1 was horrible. All you had to do is earn 1m credits and buy the Spectre gear, and that was it. Of course, those who are terrible shots are the ones who hate the ammo system, so...

[Crawlingkingsnake]

ALL OF THIS IS IRRELEVANT NOW BECAUSE THEY'RE MAKING A VOLTRON GAME!!!!

[Bluko]

Did somebody say Thermal Clips?

didymos1120 wrote...


That'd be Casey Hudson:

“One of the most controversial changes to the combat was probably how ammo works,” Hudson goes on. “It was something that wasn’t part of the main game design but instead was implemented as a test by a gameplay programmer. The Lead Designer [Preston Watamaniuk] was against the idea, but tested the ‘ammo’ version of the game for several weeks in total secrecy before concluding that it made a huge improvement to the tension and pacing of combat. Then when he pitched it to me, I was against it until I played it for a while and was convinced as well. Some of the best ideas in ME2 happened that way, where a passionate member of the team took their own time to try something they thought would be great, and it eventually passed harsh scrutiny to become part of the experience.”

I still don't buy this story. Some random gameplay programmer happens to think adding "ammo" is a great idea and despite the fact that Casey and Preston are both against it at first, they manage to turn the other cheek? Look I've played my fair share of shooters and the way ammo is implemented in this game does not impress me in the least.

No I think the real story is much different and that the idea of Thermal Clips came from a different source. But I have no evidence to support this other then my own beliefs so I won't waste anyone's time.


I probably would take a lot less issue with Thermal Clips if they had simply called it ammo to begin with, because Thermal Clips are indeed ammo. I honestly don't think I would have had a single second thought had guns in ME2 simply actually used Ammo Blocks. But Thermal Clips are just a laughable cover up. Seriously who would go from guns with near infinite ammo to finite ammo? Nobody. The idea that it's a step forward technologically speaking is preposterous.

Seriously there's so much flawed with Thermal Clips I don't even know to begin.

For starters: Why aren't they reusable in any capacity?
(Yay let's leave magazines/shell casings all over the place to give ourselves away!)

How do you preserve the individual "shots" from a Thermal Clip that was in use? 
(Hint: It's not possible. In modern shooters this is somewhat excusable as you can refill a magazine with individual bullets. You cannot reuse part of an overheated thing unless it cooled down enough to be reused entirely.) 

Every gun is really capable of using a universal clip?
(Gee good thing all that heat can be directed into something that's only an inch long and 1-2cm in diameter. I'm sure weapons would just melt otherwise.)

Why can't guns be fired if you're out of Thermal Clips?
(So if you use Thermal Clips your gun becomes utterly useless if you run out? Yeah that's so smart weapon design there I tell ya.)

Why can't I allocate all my Thermal Clips towards the weapon I'm using? Why must Shepard always evenly stockpile everything?
(What if I just wanna use my AR most of the time?)

How come enemies and squadmates never run out of Thermal Clips?


The sad thing the answer to all these questions: Herp derp Gameplay!

The overheating mechanic is too hard for your average gamer's mind to comprehend! You need to give them an exact bullet count so they can know exactly how many times to shoot since keeping an eye on heat gauage is so much worse! It also lets them reload whenever they want greatly reducing any risk they could incur during firefights. Ideas like burst fire, controlling your rate of fire, LOL what's that? Professional soldiers just unload like this until they need to reload!



(Don't worry there's no confirmation of Ducks/Geth Hoppers in ME3 at this time. So everything should be pretty easy for you to shoot.)


Now I know some of you are going to say: Well ME1 was broken cause of Frictionless Materials and Spectre Weapons! Therefore overheating sucks!

Yes indeed Frictionless Materials were broken in the context that you could fire your weapon with little to no heat build up. Solution? Remove Frictionless Materials/Heat Sinks maybe.


Nah it's a far better idea to scrap the entire system on the basis that one of the weapons mod is broken. I mean come on...

As for Spectre Weapons they were intentionally made to be "Overpowered" so you could plow through the end game faster as a reward for getting that far. (You know that simple idea that gaining XP in a RPG eventually makes you more proficient...) Yeah go figure using Spectre Weapons in NG+ makes the rest of the game pretty easy!


When I ask for an overheat system I am asking for it to be implemented with the otherwise improved gameplay aspects of ME2.

I am not asking for:
-An exact return of ME1 gun gameplay
-Frictonless mods that let you fire forever
-Spraying and praying
-Lots of generic weapons

I am simply asking the ME2 guns use an overheat meter instead of relying of a fixed supply of Thermal Clips.

Seriously what does picking up Thermal Clips add to the game in terms of enjoyment? Is it that amazingly fun to pick up orange glowing objects?

Some say it adds to the Challenge. The Challenge should come from the games A.I. If the Devs don't want you to camp behind cover then the onus should be on them to creat A.I. that attempts to flank and or flush you out of cover. (Like with grenades...) Having ammo randomly lying around is not a real good incentive for forcing the player to move because it's completely stupid to get yourself shot up just so you can "shoot some more".

Nervemind the fact that certain weapons in ME2 are almost never at risk of running out of ammo (SMGs and ARs) where as others are only good for killing a handful of enemies before you must look for clips. How is this well balanced? If the game was truly balanced all the weapons would be roughly capable of killing the same of enemies and resupply at an equivalent rate. This is not the case at all ME2. What you have is a clear case of certain weapons being the "end all" and the others more or less novelties.


Anyways since it seems were stuck with Thermal Clips I must insist they at least be somewhat improved upon going into ME3. (My issue with Thermal Clips is I simply do not find them enjoyable. They did not make the game "too hard" for me or any such thing. Cause honestlyly I found ME2 a much more easy to game to play. I mean I sure died a lot less then I did in ME1. It would be more correct to say I think Thermal Clips make Mass Effect "too easy".)

If Thermal Clips are to be in ME3 I'd ask...

1)That actually  they be universally used between weapons 
2) That once you eject a clip you cannot make any use of it's remaing shots

So something like this:



If you are truly serious about Thermal Clips adding "tension" to the battle then making every Thermal Clip valuable should only be a boon to the game experience. Of course if your only interest is to have a very easy-to-play TPS then by all means leave Thermal Clips exactly as they are. We wouldn't want any teenagers to find the game too difficult (never mind the fact it's made for adults to begin with...) and rage quit now would we? 

Modifié par Bluko, 18 octobre 2011 - 01:20 .

[Zakatak757]

Lore =/= Gameplay

Heatsinks can cool inside the gun obviously, but they need to make room for gameplay. Those tubes we pick up on the ground in-game aren't single thermal clips, they are stacks of 8 or so. A single heatsink can be seen in Zaeed's mission during the last cutscene. They are small, and a soldier could carry 24 or so on his person. That is more then enough for a combat operation, and ejecting heatsinks is alot quicker then waiting for your gun to cool.

I know in World War 2, that Japanese troops would wait for the "CHING!" sound that means a M1 Garand had ejected it's clip. Then they would gun down the US marines as they reloaded. If I heard the sound of a gun seizing up and spewing steam, I would have an 5-10 second window to run over and punch that guy in the face.

[Golden Owl]

Crawlingkingsnake wrote...

I'm sure this has been touched on before, but, why did they add Thermal Clips to ME2 and ME3? It just seems kind of pointless. The original Mass Effect was hard enough with unlimited ammo, why do they think they can remedy that with an ammo system. They try to cover it up by saying that it keeps the gun from overheating, but in ME1 the gun cools down. What happened in two years that makes their guns suddenly break down from it? That seems a little counterproductive....

I think a lot of that depends on the kind of primary weapon you choose...as a predominant Sniper, I thank god for the thermal clips, they work much, much better for me than the cool down system of ME1.