355 réponses à ce sujet

[Sgt Stryker]

Zakatak757 wrote...

I know in World War 2, that Japanese troops would wait for the "CHING!" sound that means a M1 Garand had ejected it's clip. Then they would gun down the US marines as they reloaded. If I heard the sound of a gun seizing up and spewing steam, I would have an 5-10 second window to run over and punch that guy in the face.

And then the Marines would start throwing spare clips at walls and rocks to fool the Japanese soldiers into exposing themselves. True story. 

Anyway, to stay on topic: excellent post, Bluko. I would like thermal clips to behave in a similar fashion to what you propose. Unfortunately, I doubt this will ever come to light, seeing as BioWare is a part of EA, and we dare not mention such words like "innovation" and "unique experience" in their presence.

[Bluko]

Zakatak757 wrote...
Lore =/= Gameplay

I understand that, but I see both as flawed with respect to Thermals Clips.

(Although true I find the Lore aspects of TCs the worst.)

Zakatak757 wrote...
ejecting heatsinks is alot quicker then waiting for your gun to cool.

Yes hence why ME2 is pitifully easy so long as you have a supply of TCs. Reloads are quick and painless and pose very little risk unless your standing out in the open fiddling with your gun while getting shot at. Then you might get killed. But you'd probably get killed anyway even if you were shooting out in the open as your shields are not that durable.

Zakatak757 wrote...
I know in World War 2, that Japanese troops would wait for the "CHING!" sound that means a M1 Garand had ejected it's clip. Then they would gun down the US marines as they reloaded. If I heard the sound of a gun seizing up and spewing steam, I would have an 5-10 second window to run over and punch that guy in the face.

That's great except enemy weapons have no real audible reloading noises. Nor is the reloading time long for you to actually kill some mook with his "pants down"  relatively harm free

Also there's a lot WWII combat myths. Supposedly the Japanese could cut gun barrels in half with their katanas.

[NOD-INFORMER37]

Am I the only one who likes both Thermal Clips and Overheating? Idk why there has to a fight over every f-ing detail lol but anyways they're both different playstyles with they're own pros/cons. One never runs out of ammo but has a longer waiting time, the other has limited ammo but hardly any waiting time to reload.

Maybe Bioware should add both in ME3, like the guns start as Thermal Clips but theres an upgrade or option to switch them to Overheat if you choose. That'd be pretty cool. =/

[slimgrin]

EternalAmbiguity wrote...

*scratches head*

So people honestly feel this some other use than creating an ammo system?

Believe it or not, yes.

[Zakatak757]

Bluko wrote...

Also there's a lot WWII combat myths. Supposedly the Japanese could cut gun barrels in half with their katanas.

Lol really? Might reduce the range of the bullet a bit, but at point blank range, you aren't doing yourself favours.

About TC's "being too easy". I think Shepard should not only have take out the clip, but pop one in. The reload takes 1.5 seconds, increasing it to 3 might be a little better for gameplay.

And before someone brings it up...

Keep in mind most ground troops were using standard M7 Avengers that we got at the beginning of ME1. They didn't take long to overheat and took a long time to cool down. Not every gun is a Spectre Master Armory HMMMIGV69Watevr that fires for days on end. For standard issue rifles? Massive improvement.

[fdgvdddvdfdfbdfb]

BlaCKRodjj wrote...

fdgvdddvdfdfbdfb wrote...

EternalAmbiguity wrote...

The point of Thermal Clips is an ammo system.

This and only this. Anyone telling you otherwise is delusional. It's one of the worst retcons I' ve ever seen, although I prefer ammo, they should have called it as it is, otherwise we end up with threads like this.

It's not a retcon. The lore explanation is perfectly sound and clear. Can't there be advancement in a game's universe?
Besides, the overheating system also had "ammo", counting the shots you could fire (raw shots until overheat, not counting bonuses or mods). The thermal clip system does exactly that, only that you drop it instead of waiting for the cooldown and that it showed in the HUD.

Is that why it doesn't ever cooldown? You can also automatic fire a 29 bullets out of a 30 clips without overheating, let it rest shoot once and it overheats? Why can't you fire even once when you're out of ammo? Why can't I take thermal clips out of the guns I never use to put into the widow? The whole "firing tiny shavings at people" idea was extremely idiotic anyway, if they had to use an ammo system, might as well just forget about that.

[Bluko]

NOD-INFORMER37 wrote...

Am I the only one who likes both Thermal Clips and Overheating? Idk why there has to a fight over every f-ing detail lol but anyways they're both different playstyles with they're own pros/cons. One never runs out of ammo but has a longer waiting time, the other has limited ammo but hardly any waiting time to reload.

Maybe Bioware should add both in ME3, like the guns start as Thermal Clips but theres an upgrade or option to switch them to Overheat if you choose. That'd be pretty cool. =/

A number of folks (including myself) were rather keen on a hybrid system. You know essentially the best of both.

However this has been shot down as well as the Devs supposedly tried to make a hybrid. How much they tried remains very questionable. Those who hate most anything ME1 related use this as vindication that "Thermal Clips are the bestest best thing ever!" of course.

[Il Divo]

NOD-INFORMER37 wrote...

Am I the only one who likes both Thermal Clips and Overheating? Idk why there has to a fight over every f-ing detail lol but anyways they're both different playstyles with they're own pros/cons. One never runs out of ammo but has a longer waiting time, the other has limited ammo but hardly any waiting time to reload.

I was pretty much neutral on the change and didn't know about it until I put in my copy of ME2. My reaction was pretty much: "Oh, we have ammo packs now? Back to killing things then." It wasn't really a change that upset me in either direction.

Modifié par Il Divo, 18 octobre 2011 - 01:59 .

[Barry Bathernak]

if the geth weapons are a small slug in side an engery ball then why is there even friction? last time i checked energy doesn't cause friction(and if it does its not much) so why not adopt that part over the thermal clip since less friction heat = more shots.but really if your goal is more shots down range then why not make the heat sink more absorbent so that you can shoot more without overheating,plus Unlimited ammo > limited ammo.

[Zakatak757]

Barry Bathernak wrote...

if the geth weapons are a small slug in side an engery ball then why is there even friction? last time i checked energy doesn't cause friction(and if it does its not much) so why not adopt that part over the thermal clip since less friction heat = more shots.but really if your goal is more shots down range then why not make the heat sink more absorbent so that you can shoot more without overheating,plus Unlimited ammo > limited ammo.

What the hell did you just say? No, seriously, what the hell did you say. I have no idea.

Are you saying Geth should not be using metal shavings/slugs and use pure energy weapons instead?
What do you mean by "make more absorbent"?  Is it not possible they are working on that technology?
You can't have unlimited ammo. Magazine size, block size, battery size, all limiters. Not feasible.

[Sgt Stryker]

Barry Bathernak wrote...

if the geth weapons are a small slug in side an engery ball then why is there even friction? last time i checked energy doesn't cause friction(and if it does its not much) so why not adopt that part over the thermal clip since less friction heat = more shots.but really if your goal is more shots down range then why not make the heat sink more absorbent so that you can shoot more without overheating,plus Unlimited ammo > limited ammo.

Ah yes, the "glowing ball + pew-pew sound = energy" fallacy.

Also, regarding "unlimited" ammo:

The Mass Effect Codex wrote...

The ammo magazine is a simple block of metal. The gun's internal computer calculates the mass needed to reach the target based on distance, gravity, and atmospheric pressure, then shears off an appropriate sized slug from the block. A single block can supply thousands of rounds, making ammo a non-issue during any engagement.

[dreman9999]

Barry Bathernak wrote...

if the geth weapons are a small slug in side an engery ball then why is there even friction? last time i checked energy doesn't cause friction(and if it does its not much) so why not adopt that part over the thermal clip since less friction heat = more shots.but really if your goal is more shots down range then why not make the heat sink more absorbent so that you can shoot more without overheating,plus Unlimited ammo > limited ammo.

Ummm...Plasma is matter...And geth guns shoot plasma not energy.....Plasma being matter causes friction.

[The Spamming Troll]

Sgt Stryker wrote...

Because then all players have to do is go to the fridge and grab a beer while their Widow ammo recharges.

id rather have enemy AI force me out of my awesome sniper spot rather then restricting my ammo count to 12 measly shots so i cant camp. let me remind you were talking about an infiltrator, with 12 sniper bullets. i dont know why your applauding it. ME3 seems to be offeringmore advanced  enemies that are "cover busters" so i think theres more then enough reason to give a sniper rifle more then 12 shots, or building a game that doesnt rely on only carrying 12 shots.

Modifié par The Spamming Troll, 18 octobre 2011 - 02:35 .

[Sgt Stryker]

Ha, don't get me wrong, I'm all for smarter enemy AI. I was just pointing out what I perceive to be BioWare's reasoning for the ammo system they ultimately decided on.

[The Spamming Troll]

they "think" itll sell more. period.

no game is remember for its ammo, EXCEPT ME1. it had a sci fi feel, offered cool modding, was somehwat unique in that i didnt need to pick up ammo, and could have EASILY been refined to greatness. i think the overheat mechanic would make the game better, but im an idiot. nobody will remember what the hell TCs are, hell hardly anyone can even explain them.

Modifié par The Spamming Troll, 18 octobre 2011 - 02:38 .

[dreman9999]

The Spamming Troll wrote...

Sgt Stryker wrote...

Because then all players have to do is go to the fridge and grab a beer while their Widow ammo recharges.

id rather have enemy AI force me out of my awesome sniper spot rather then restricting my ammo count to 12 measly shots so i cant camp. let me remind you were talking about an infiltrator, with 12 sniper bullets. i dont know why your applauding it. ME3 seems to be offeringmore advanced  enemies that are "cover busters" so i think theres more then enough reason to give a sniper rifle more then 12 shots, or building a game that relys on only carrying 12 shots.

But they would never reach you if you had a widow with unlimited ammo and the right build. An infiltator would be godly with incineration blast and an unlimited ammo widow.

Modifié par dreman9999, 18 octobre 2011 - 02:38 .

[dreman9999]

The Spamming Troll wrote...

they "think" itll sell more.

period.

You do realise that the ammo system makes the game harder, right?

Modifié par dreman9999, 18 octobre 2011 - 02:37 .

[Golden Owl]

The Spamming Troll wrote...

Sgt Stryker wrote...

Because then all players have to do is go to the fridge and grab a beer while their Widow ammo recharges.

id rather have enemy AI force me out of my awesome sniper spot rather then restricting my ammo count to 12 measly shots so i cant camp. let me remind you were talking about an infiltrator, with 12 sniper bullets. i dont know why your applauding it. ME3 seems to be offeringmore advanced  enemies that are "cover busters" so i think theres more then enough reason to give a sniper rifle more then 12 shots, or building a game that doesnt rely on only carrying 12 shots.

13 shots actually, but that's not the point....With thermal clips you can get the shots off fast...cool downs leave you looking for your back up weapon too often....Thermal clips last the run and there's always enough close by to keep firing.

[The Spamming Troll]

dreman9999 wrote...

The Spamming Troll wrote...

Sgt Stryker wrote...

Because then all players have to do is go to the fridge and grab a beer while their Widow ammo recharges.

id rather have enemy AI force me out of my awesome sniper spot rather then restricting my ammo count to 12 measly shots so i cant camp. let me remind you were talking about an infiltrator, with 12 sniper bullets. i dont know why your applauding it. ME3 seems to be offeringmore advanced  enemies that are "cover busters" so i think theres more then enough reason to give a sniper rifle more then 12 shots, or building a game that relys on only carrying 12 shots.

But they would never reach you if you had a widow with unlimited ammo and the right build. An infiltator would be godly with incineration blast and an unlimited ammo widow.

2 things:

-who said anything about unlimited ammo?

-do you think ME2 doesnt feature unlimited ammo?

[Golden Owl]

dreman9999 wrote...

The Spamming Troll wrote...

they "think" itll sell more.

period.

You do realise that the ammo system makes the game harder, right?

I would disagree myself...I found the cool down much harder to deal with...having to wait it out or resort to back up weapons.....Back up weapons aren't such a stunning choice for a primarily Sniping Infiltrator.

[The Spamming Troll]

Golden Owl wrote...

The Spamming Troll wrote...

Sgt Stryker wrote...

Because then all players have to do is go to the fridge and grab a beer while their Widow ammo recharges.

id rather have enemy AI force me out of my awesome sniper spot rather then restricting my ammo count to 12 measly shots so i cant camp. let me remind you were talking about an infiltrator, with 12 sniper bullets. i dont know why your applauding it. ME3 seems to be offeringmore advanced  enemies that are "cover busters" so i think theres more then enough reason to give a sniper rifle more then 12 shots, or building a game that doesnt rely on only carrying 12 shots.

13 shots actually, but that's not the point....With thermal clips you can get the shots off fast...cool downs leave you looking for your back up weapon too often....Thermal clips last the run and there's always enough close by to keep firing.

i hope thats not the point.

you need to compare TCs to a refined version of ME1s overheating mechanic. were not directly comparing the ME1 pistol, to ME2s predetor. imagin ME2s weapons with an overheat mechanic. even the hybrid idea of an overheating mechanic with an addded option to quick reload a new heat sinc to instantly cool your weapon for immediate action.

you need to read this:
itd essentially be like medigel, but for your weapon. youd carry a limited supply, and only use them when your in need of immediate action, or just let a few seconds pass and get back too it. it should make just as much sense with weapons as it does with medigel.

Modifié par The Spamming Troll, 18 octobre 2011 - 03:04 .

[dreman9999]

Golden Owl wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

The Spamming Troll wrote...

they "think" itll sell more.

period.

You do realise that the ammo system makes the game harder, right?

I would disagree myself...I found the cool down much harder to deal with...having to wait it out or resort to back up weapons.....Back up weapons aren't such a stunning choice for a primarily Sniping Infiltrator.

No, the cooldown is easy to deal with. In fact in ME1 you can build guns that would never over heat. Their is no punishment for blindly shooting in ME1. In fact they go out of their way to make it easier to hit target.
With a limit ammo system, you have to be more accurute or risk losing attack power. The widow and the clamore are increadible weopon untill you miss and run out of ammo.

Modifié par dreman9999, 18 octobre 2011 - 02:50 .

[The Spamming Troll]

Golden Owl wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

The Spamming Troll wrote...

they "think" itll sell more.

period.

You do realise that the ammo system makes the game harder, right?

I would disagree myself...I found the cool down much harder to deal with...having to wait it out or resort to back up weapons.....Back up weapons aren't such a stunning choice for a primarily Sniping Infiltrator.

thats becasue you choose to create a sniper infiltrator whose gun overheats alot.

are you going to complain about your lack of biotics because you made a sniping centric infiltrator?

you act like the cooldowns took FOREVER. maybe you need to lrn2play or whatever it is kids are saying these days.

[dreman9999]

The Spamming Troll wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

The Spamming Troll wrote...

Sgt Stryker wrote...

Because then all players have to do is go to the fridge and grab a beer while their Widow ammo recharges.

id rather have enemy AI force me out of my awesome sniper spot rather then restricting my ammo count to 12 measly shots so i cant camp. let me remind you were talking about an infiltrator, with 12 sniper bullets. i dont know why your applauding it. ME3 seems to be offeringmore advanced  enemies that are "cover busters" so i think theres more then enough reason to give a sniper rifle more then 12 shots, or building a game that relys on only carrying 12 shots.

But they would never reach you if you had a widow with unlimited ammo and the right build. An infiltator would be godly with incineration blast and an unlimited ammo widow.

2 things:

-who said anything about unlimited ammo?

-do you think ME2 doesnt feature unlimited ammo?

1. That want the old system is.
2. It clear that they don't have unlimited use of guns.