355 réponses à ce sujet

[Sajuro]

The Spamming Troll wrote...

Sajuro wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

Golden Owl wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

The Spamming Troll wrote...

they "think" itll sell more.

period.

You do realise that the ammo system makes the game harder, right?

I would disagree myself...I found the cool down much harder to deal with...having to wait it out or resort to back up weapons.....Back up weapons aren't such a stunning choice for a primarily Sniping Infiltrator.

No, the cooldown is easy to deal with. In fact in ME1 you can build guns that would never over heat. Their is no punishment for blindly shooting in ME1. In fact they go out of their way to make it easier to hit target.
With a limit ammo system, you have to be more accurute or risk losing attack power. The widow and the clamore are increadible weopon untill you miss and run out of ammo.

This, in ME1 the Revenant would have been my best friend after slapping on two frictionless materials but in ME2 I love the machine guns that use the burst feature and I find it's much better to aim in that game, leading me to having a love affair with the widow

a new mod could have added a burst fire mechanic to ME1s weapons.

i think location damage in ME2 had alot to do with sniper rifles effectiveness. i mean could you imagin the widow with HE rounds with head shots? now thatd be rediculous!

I must admit my favorite for awhile was using a pistol high explosive rounds with two frictionless materials, still only got four shots before it overheated
Used shredder rounds with two FMs in my Sniper Rifle as an extra "f*ck you"
Honestly I am glad they got rid of the overheat and the weapon mods, the armor pieces gave you more ammo while the weapon powers encouraged me to use the different effects more often, since I never changed the mods in ME1 depending on the fight but I did change between fire and cryo ammo in ME2.

[Seraphael]

Meshaber wrote...

There is a lore explanation for it and it improves the gameplay.

This. And It should improve gameplay even more in upcoming ME3 since melee attacks are given new emphasis.

Modifié par Seraphael, 18 octobre 2011 - 04:46 .

[The Spamming Troll]

^what do TCs have to do with melee?

El_Chala_Legalizado wrote...

My problem with the heat system of ME1 is that it was too easy to abuse of it and ending up shooting an assault rifle for almost an entire minute without missing a single bullet.

i see this alot. do these people not see NO ONE wants an exact replica of ME1s weapons in ME3. its always "i liked ME1s weapons, but frictionless materials made my gun fire forever." it seems like such a weak attempt to say why ME1s weapons are inferior to ME2s. was ME1 as much of a corridor shooter as ME2? im pretty sure you couldnt fire forever and land every bullet when you played ME1. id even say modding frictionless materials is weakening your gun, but im not here to argue the faults in choosing which mods i use and which ones i dont use.

what would you say if ME1 simply removed frictionless materials? now whats the complaint?

Modifié par The Spamming Troll, 18 octobre 2011 - 04:50 .

[didymos1120]

Eckswhyzee wrote...


-Although TCs have increased the stopping power of mass accelerators, advancements in armour and kinetic barrier technology have also occurred, so the time-to-kill hasn't changed that much. Hence a ME1 gun brought into the world of ME2 would not do much damage.

It's mentioned in the cut Thermal Clips codex entry that things are heading that way, so it's kinda quasi-official.  It's also implied by some of the defensive upgragdes.

[dreman9999]

The Spamming Troll wrote...

^what do TCs have to do with melee?

El_Chala_Legalizado wrote...

My problem with the heat system of ME1 is that it was too easy to abuse of it and ending up shooting an assault rifle for almost an entire minute without missing a single bullet.

i see this alot. do these people not see NO ONE wants an exact replica of ME1s weapons in ME3. its always "i liked ME1s weapons, but frictionless materials made my gun fire forever." it seems like such a weak attempt to say why ME1s weapons are inferior to ME2s. was ME1 as much of a corridor shooter as ME2? im pretty sure you couldnt fire forever and land every bullet when you played ME1. id even say modding frictionless materials is weakening your gun, but im not here to argue the faults in choosing which mods i use and which ones i dont use.

what would you say if ME1 simply removed frictionless materials? now whats the complaint?

Then you are forgetting another factor. The fact that having the heat sink removable add an extra advantage to combat.....Extra attack power. Guns in ME1 had a limit to it's attack power out put because extra concussion force add extra heat friction to the gun, meaning it would over heat fast as will as damage the internal heat sink if the gun was too powerful. Having the heatsink get  too damages due to too much power would be a problem because in the older guns you can't take it out. On point they had to limit the attack power of gun because of that as well. With the removable heat sink they don't have to worry about it. They can make a gun as powerful as they want, because their is no inconvenience of over heating the heat sink to the point the heat sink has to be change because it changeable. They can have the gun attck power as high as the want. Meaning the guns in ME1 have a stronger attack power then the one in ME1.

Modifié par dreman9999, 18 octobre 2011 - 05:24 .

[capn233]

Always heard the M1 clip "ching" stories about the Korean conflict and never about WWII. Interesting.

As far as Mass Effect guns, they aren't technically rail guns since they don't have a projectile forming a contact between two rails and propelled by a magnetic field. They are mass accelerators that use mass effect fields. Trivial distinction? Dunno. ME guns use what I think are unrealistically small projectiles, but I suppose that is my opinion. I am sure that they made the lore explanation for thermal clips because they didn't want to just retcon the gun and have them use ammo. Even if projectiles with greater size would have made more sense to begin with.

In the first Mass Effect combat just was not all that great in its implementation. Was it simply the overheat mechanic? Not really. It was the convergence of a multitude of factors from powers and cool-downs to the stats of top tier weapons and mods. Someone mentioned the infiltrator as being problematic when you had to switch weapons... I don't know why you ever really needed to. With the heat management bonus in that class if you put sensible mods in a decent rifle you had a semi-automatic weapon that you almost never had to switch from. Even if you did, the pistol with Marksman was ridiculously powerful anyway.

This sort of gets to the fact as to why the weapons didn't work out well... Marksman and Overkill had a very high bonus to cooling rate and made overheating nearly non existent without frictionless materials. By the time you got Spectre weapons, they almost would not overheat in this mode even with dual Scram rails, or a Scram and Rail Extension VII together.

Oddly being able to shoot forever allowed you to actually kill an enemy with a gun on insanity since they were able to spam protection powers so often and had high regen rates. The thermal clip / ammo mechanic might have been severely irritating in that game if the weapons did the same amount of damage because it would take even longer to kill anything with a gun.

I prefer the combat in ME2 significantly more than in the first game. Is all of that due to thermal clips? No of course not. Would it change a lot with the overheat mechanic? I don't know that it would be terrible, but it would be a step in the wrong direction unless they made drastic changes to the overheat stats and were able to differentiate the weapons more significantly. Even though ME had one zillion guns they were all more or less the same with incremental differences in the strength and heat capacities. The ME2 mechanics ended up making the guns a bit more varied since the ammo capacities are a larger consideration than the smaller differences in heat.

One final thought... the Infiltrator is an Infiltrator, not a sniper. If he was a sniper only meant to use the sniper rifle the class would probably be called Sniper. And the Widow is powerful enough as it is without giving it any more capacity. The Mantis is screwed more than the Widow in this regard, and arguably the Vindicator or Carnifex are as well, relatively speaking.

[dreman9999]

capn233 wrote...

Always heard the M1 clip "ching" stories about the Korean conflict and never about WWII. Interesting.

As far as Mass Effect guns, they aren't technically rail guns since they don't have a projectile forming a contact between two rails and propelled by a magnetic field. They are mass accelerators that use mass effect fields. Trivial distinction? Dunno. ME guns use what I think are unrealistically small projectiles, but I suppose that is my opinion. I am sure that they made the lore explanation for thermal clips because they didn't want to just retcon the gun and have them use ammo. Even if projectiles with greater size would have made more sense to begin with.

In the first Mass Effect combat just was not all that great in its implementation. Was it simply the overheat mechanic? Not really. It was the convergence of a multitude of factors from powers and cool-downs to the stats of top tier weapons and mods. Someone mentioned the infiltrator as being problematic when you had to switch weapons... I don't know why you ever really needed to. With the heat management bonus in that class if you put sensible mods in a decent rifle you had a semi-automatic weapon that you almost never had to switch from. Even if you did, the pistol with Marksman was ridiculously powerful anyway.

This sort of gets to the fact as to why the weapons didn't work out well... Marksman and Overkill had a very high bonus to cooling rate and made overheating nearly non existent without frictionless materials. By the time you got Spectre weapons, they almost would not overheat in this mode even with dual Scram rails, or a Scram and Rail Extension VII together.

Oddly being able to shoot forever allowed you to actually kill an enemy with a gun on insanity since they were able to spam protection powers so often and had high regen rates. The thermal clip / ammo mechanic might have been severely irritating in that game if the weapons did the same amount of damage because it would take even longer to kill anything with a gun.

I prefer the combat in ME2 significantly more than in the first game. Is all of that due to thermal clips? No of course not. Would it change a lot with the overheat mechanic? I don't know that it would be terrible, but it would be a step in the wrong direction unless they made drastic changes to the overheat stats and were able to differentiate the weapons more significantly. Even though ME had one zillion guns they were all more or less the same with incremental differences in the strength and heat capacities. The ME2 mechanics ended up making the guns a bit more varied since the ammo capacities are a larger consideration than the smaller differences in heat.

One final thought... the Infiltrator is an Infiltrator, not a sniper. If he was a sniper only meant to use the sniper rifle the class would probably be called Sniper. And the Widow is powerful enough as it is without giving it any more capacity. The Mantis is screwed more than the Widow in this regard, and arguably the Vindicator or Carnifex are as well, relatively speaking.

I could not agree more.

[DxWill10]

Computer_God91 wrote...

Zakatak757 wrote...

But why do would WANT that dreadful overheating to return? Once you bought a high-grade weapon, you could hold down the trigger for eternity without worry, totally killed the gameplay.

That bolded part was really hard to read. Anyway, why do I want it to return? Cause I liked it. It made sense.

It made sense?  You mean you don't enjoy challenges so much as you enjoy face-rolling everything you come acrossed.  You're in the minority, bud, I wouldn't except anything you like to take much favor.

[Robuthad]

Let's face it. When ME first came out most of us liked not having to worry about ammo and for lower level weapons the lack of "clips" didn't matter because of accuracy issues. But once we all got the HWSFX XXX we all became superpowered killing machines with our kinetic coils.

The introduction of ejectable heat sinks was welcomed by me. I still missed infinite ammo like I always do but they def made combat better and more realistic. Instead of just holding down the trigger on anything

[Dreadcall]

Seraphael wrote...

Meshaber wrote...

There is a lore explanation for it and it improves the gameplay.

This. And It should improve gameplay even more in upcoming ME3 since melee attacks are given new emphasis.

So how exactly does pressing R whenever you are not shooting improve gameplay? 

Seriously, i used coalesced.ini to get infinie ammo and could barely feel the difference between that and my previous playthrough. And i'm not that great at aiming...

I they made clips drop less often, maybe it would actually have a point. Should help with that new emphasis on meele as well.

[TexasToast712]

To purely ****** off the ME1 fans. LOL no infinite ammo for you. I like having to reload. It gives you a awesome sense of urgency when you are low on ammo and have to scramble for more or die.

Modifié par TexasToast712, 18 octobre 2011 - 10:02 .

[fdgvdddvdfdfbdfb]

Dreadcall wrote...

Seraphael wrote...

Meshaber wrote...

There is a lore explanation for it and it improves the gameplay.

This. And It should improve gameplay even more in upcoming ME3 since melee attacks are given new emphasis.

So how exactly does pressing R whenever you are not shooting improve gameplay? 

Seriously, i used coalesced.ini to get infinie ammo and could barely feel the difference between that and my previous playthrough. And i'm not that great at aiming...

I they made clips drop less often, maybe it would actually have a point. Should help with that new emphasis on meele as well.

It teaches you to conserve ammo, your last point is noted but with some of the guns like the widow you do find yourself running short from time to time. I also just like the realoding animation, instead of waiting doing nothing=]. I try not to reload until nearly out though, they'll never implement it but I like to pretend that if you reload prematurely you throw away all the bullets left in the clip:whistle:

[LOLandStuff]

Noobs bullet spray everything that moves, hoping at least one shot could actually touch someone.
And you play games like Sims with cheats.

Modifié par LOLandStuff, 18 octobre 2011 - 10:52 .

[CptBomBom00]

LOLandStuff wrote...

Noobs bullet spray everything that moves, hoping at least one shot could actually touch an someone.
And you play games like Sims with cheats.

Sorry but I can't see  the point in this post.

Modifié par CptBomBom00, 18 octobre 2011 - 10:49 .

[Shepard the Leper]

It's funny how some people confuse ME1's cooldown system with a no-ammo system. Cooldown and ammo have NOTHING to do with each other. Medkits are on cooldown and come in limited supply - I guess they must have missed that part when they were playing ME1 or 2.

Unlimited ammo = no ammo; unlimited money = no money; unlimited resources = no resources; unlimited health = no health; all completely ruin gameplay thus are inadvisable when one tries to actually create a game unless the aim is to NOT create a challenge, but enable god- or cheat-mode.

[Dariustwinblade]

Guns in mass effect 2 ARE NOT MORE POWERFUL than guns in Mass Effect 1.


A Varren took less shots from an Avenger to kill. In Me1 than Me2's ammo limited Avenger


Me1 guns> Me2 guns.

So shielding tech has not increased

[CptBomBom00]

Also thermal clips provide challenge that every shot must count.

[Tonymac]

Guns in ME1 were better - by a DAMN sight. Every single weapon in ME1 was better, in every regard than the trash in ME2.

I think what happened was that people complained that the weaponry was unrealistic because you could mod your gear so good that it would never overheat, and not miss, and it hit like a freight train jacked up on cocain.

ME1 weaponry was really good. Take an M-8, which misses a LOT and does not hit hard at all. No weapon in ME2 is as accurate as anything in ME1 that was modded properly. By modded I mean legitamately - with the in game stuff you bought from vendors or found or looted. The guns in ME1 were totally awesome in every regard.

I would have preferred that the weapons stayed the same, just make the enemies more deadly rather than make the guns suck balls. Instead they made the guns suck and the enemies a lot more stationary.

I do not like the thermal clip system at all. Sure - it works, but as far as I am concerned we have this 'futureistic' game where I am still carrying ammo just like in the civil war. Call it a thermal clip or ball and cap ammo - its the same retarded principle.

[Sgt Stryker]

capn233 wrote...

As far as Mass Effect guns, they aren't technically rail guns since they don't have a projectile forming a contact between two rails and propelled by a magnetic field. They are mass accelerators that use mass effect fields.  Trivial distinction? Dunno. ME guns use what I think are unrealistically small projectiles, but I suppose that is my opinion. I am sure that they made the lore explanation for thermal clips because they didn't want to just retcon the gun and have them use ammo. Even if projectiles with greater size would have made more sense to begin with.

This is actually a little inaccurate. Read the Primary Codex entries on Small Arms and Mass Accelerators again. The projectiles are accelerated by electromagnetic attraction/repulsion. The mass effect field is just there to allow higher velocities while minimizing recoil. This is similar in principle to FTL travel in the MEverse: An eezo core by itself will not let you break the speed of light - you still need an engine to push the ship. Granted, this does not necessarily imply that physical contact is needed between the projectile and the weapon barrel, but it is clear that the ME field is not the method of propulsion.

Dariustwinblade wrote...

Guns in mass effect 2 ARE NOT MORE POWERFUL than guns in Mass Effect 1.


A Varren took less shots from an Avenger to kill. In Me1 than Me2's ammo limited Avenger


Me1 guns> Me2 guns.

So shielding tech has not increased 

Wait. Are people still using gameplay mechanics in a lore discussion? Ugh...
Here's my question to you though: on higher difficulties these varren have armor that you must blast through first. That wasn't there in ME1. Did they somehow evolve in 2 years? When did I end up in the Pokemon world?!

Modifié par Sgt Stryker, 18 octobre 2011 - 12:28 .

[Shepard the Leper]

WTF does ones (deluded) view on weapons have got to do with having (un)limited ammo?

[Lumikki]

Ahh, same old same ME1 vs ME2. Booooooooring, noting will be solved and changed here. ME3's combat is allready design and done.

[Juha81FIN]

*Sigh* why people can't see that ME 1 and 2 are two completely different games.

[dreman9999]

Dreadcall wrote...

Seraphael wrote...

Meshaber wrote...

There is a lore explanation for it and it improves the gameplay.

This. And It should improve gameplay even more in upcoming ME3 since melee attacks are given new emphasis.

So how exactly does pressing R whenever you are not shooting improve gameplay? 

Seriously, i used coalesced.ini to get infinie ammo and could barely feel the difference between that and my previous playthrough. And i'm not that great at aiming...

I they made clips drop less often, maybe it would actually have a point. Should help with that new emphasis on meele as well.

Bacause it was unalance before. With the loop wholes and unlimited ammo, the cost of aiming is zero. With the way the gun aim in ME2, it balances the system and makes it more challenging.

[dreman9999]

Dariustwinblade wrote...

Guns in mass effect 2 ARE NOT MORE POWERFUL than guns in Mass Effect 1.


A Varren took less shots from an Avenger to kill. In Me1 than Me2's ammo limited Avenger


Me1 guns> Me2 guns.

So shielding tech has not increased

If you think that, then you are delutional. Every gun type has different effects on defence. Added that the ammo type have dramatic effect on it. And less not froget defence inproved in me2's lore.

[Barry Bathernak]

ok as far as game play wise the tier 1 avenger did in m.e.1 did 150 dam, while the avenger in m.e.2 did 10.8 dam.this means guns are now weaker and in gameplay the faster shots in m.e.2 can always be seen as opposed to the slower moving shots in m.e.1 which cant be seen at all.