64 réponses à ce sujet

[Humanoid_Taifun]

Congratulations.
You really deserve those.

I'm thinking of trying a true pacifist game, without using exploits to minimize recorded killings or XP, but trying an in character variant of somebody who really dislikes ending people's lifes.
Since that could easily turn to either a suicide run ("I'm not going to attack you, and I hope you will stay your hand as well") or not really different from a normal game ("That guy needs to die before he slaughters innocent people") I'm not at all sure about this game idea yet though.

[Humanoid_Taifun]

[stupid forum and stupid bugs and stupid Bioware and stupid Thursdays and stupid internet and stupid me and stupid forum GODDAMNIT doublepost]

Modifié par Humanoid_Taifun, 27 octobre 2011 - 12:02 .

[Grond0]

Humanoid_Taifun wrote...
I'm thinking of trying a true pacifist game, without using exploits to minimize recorded killings or XP, but trying an in character variant of somebody who really dislikes ending people's lifes.
Since that could easily turn to either a suicide run ("I'm not going to attack you, and I hope you will stay your hand as well") or not really different from a normal game ("That guy needs to die before he slaughters innocent people") I'm not at all sure about this game idea yet though.

If you're willing to use the tweak that disables a hostile reaction after charming then this approach would seem to make sense - you could leave a trail of happier feeling people behind you.

[stupid forum and stupid bugs and stupid Bioware and stupid Thursdays and stupid internet and stupid me and stupid forum GODDAMNIT doublepost]

Sorry - I'm smiling.  I know I shouldn't given we've all been there and don't feel in the least like smiling at the time, but I can't help it.

[Humanoid_Taifun]

Grond0 wrote...
If you're willing to use the tweak that disables a hostile reaction after charming then this approach would seem to make sense - you could leave a trail of happier feeling people behind you.

I don't doubt I could sneak my way past most of them anyway - it's just that if my character sees somebody being attacked, they have the choice to either ignore it (leaving the victim to die - which is not quite in the spirit of my idea) or act - and in most cases acting successfully requires killing the attacker - otherwise the "Yay, I'm saved" script won't fire.
I was playing with the idea of a guy who only fights if he himself is in danger - but that would still mean killing just about everybody in the games. (if he leaves his own attackers alive, then one has to wonder why he won't help anybody else)

Maybe an LE Priest of Lathander, who, knowing of his inherent evil, looks for religion in order to restrain himself (and his taint) and not kill anybody.
He cannot aid others through means of murder because that would mean giving in, and for himself he will only take up arms if there is really no other way available.

Does that sound like a sound character?

Sorry - I'm smiling.  I know I shouldn't given we've all been there and don't feel in the least like smiling at the time, but I can't help it 

Modifié par Humanoid_Taifun, 27 octobre 2011 - 03:22 .

[Grond0]

That could work well - I think some sort of access to spells is a good idea to give a bit of range to the character's possible responses.

Another possibility (at least to me) would be a jester (prefers to defuse arguments without combat, but can be deadly if provoked). I might also consider a bounty hunter (working towards temporary loss of freedom as a punishment), but in my mind that would be more the "really couldn't care less about others" variety, which you said you didn't want.

[Son of Imoen]

CONGRATULATIONS Grond0!

I never use CapsLock, but for this feat a loud hooray is in order!

I've followed your thread with interest and it's a great achievement you've made.

It's a pity it can't be done without no xp at all - quest xp for killing Sarevok makes you F3/M3/T4 if you'd hit the level-up button. But gaining 7 levels at once is an achievement in itself!

Did you play Tutu or BGT and are you planning on taking Killjoy to SOA? If it's Tutu you played, you'd be able to continue no-xp style.

[HoonDing]

I saw it mentioned in another forum section that somebody once finished BG with a level 1 mage... this can't be true, can it?

[Grond0]

Son of Imoen wrote...

CONGRATULATIONS Grond0!

Thanks very much.

Did you play Tutu or BGT and are you planning on taking Killjoy to SOA? If it's Tutu you played, you'd be able to continue no-xp style.

It was BGT, so she couldn't continue without XP (though I could always shadowkeeper it away).  However, I don't intend to take her on - I don't think a no-XP / items run would be as interesting in BG2 so I'll try to get another character through to continue as a more normal (for me) no-reload.

[Grimwald the Wise]

Grond0 wrote...

 I suspect that the final battle would actually be more straightforward in vanilla (though I have no desire to test this out for the time being).

It is indeed. If you look at my no killing game from a few years back. The link is on the no XP thread on the 1st page. You will find that it was relatively easy. 6 people died in the entire game, none of them killed by the PC or by characters charmed by him. Favourite weapon was fists. Favourite spell cure light wounds. I was not playing minimum experience. Indeed I tried to get as much as I could. Therefore charming one hobgoblin (the one with the ring) and not letting him attack the others meant that I could help Joia without killing anyone. Needless to say Algernon's cloak was a must.
I may try a vanilla minimum experience run now, after finishing current games. Problem is after so long without playing it, Vanilla will have become difficult again. Though that might be no bad thing.

Modifié par Grimwald the Wise, 28 octobre 2011 - 12:03 .

[Grond0]

virumor wrote...

I saw it mentioned in another forum section that somebody once finished BG with a level 1 mage... this can't be true, can it?

A level 1 mage using items would be straightforward if you allow reloading.  In fact the only item you would really need would be the cloak of Algernon, though wands could help speed up some encounters.  A mage could use similar tactics to my run, but the cloak of Algernon would be far more effective than the charm person spell (long-lasting effect, infinite uses, no saving throw bonus and effective on creatures that can't be charmed) - this would allow charmed creatures to be sent on ahead of the character, which would compensate for the inability to stealth. 

I would have thought even a no-reload game would not be out of the question using this cloak - perhaps I'll give that a go sometime.

[After5CST]

Congrats, Grond0. I'm really, really, really impressed.

[Grimwald the Wise]

Grond0 wrote...

virumor wrote...

I saw it mentioned in another forum section that somebody once finished BG with a level 1 mage... this can't be true, can it?

A level 1 mage using items would be straightforward if you allow reloading.  In fact the only item you would really need would be the cloak of Algernon, though wands could help speed up some encounters.  A mage could use similar tactics to my run, but the cloak of Algernon would be far more effective than the charm person spell (long-lasting effect, infinite uses, no saving throw bonus and effective on creatures that can't be charmed) - this would allow charmed creatures to be sent on ahead of the character, which would compensate for the inability to stealth. 

I would have thought even a no-reload game would not be out of the question using this cloak - perhaps I'll give that a go sometime.

Wand of sleep is also very useful, (It is better than the sleep spell) particularly in the Ducal Palace. You can then beat up the bad guys with your fists, and do a bit of healing whilst the dukes and guards do the dirty work. (You do have to time your spells correctly. If you cast them before they have transformed into doppelgangers, they won't transform)

[Bhryaen]

This is fantastic! The success with the Sarevok fight is phenomenal... though it does rely on the screen transition that only Tutu/BGT offers. (Vanilla stops everything at the door.) Rest Anywhere also holds. Are you able to exit and enter the temple at will in BGT as well- i.e., before Sarevok is dead?

I'm surprised the Ducal Palace went so well. It's always been such chaos whenever I've played it. Are you saying you Charmed each dopple before they'd doppled and brought them elsewhere? If your tactic for bringing them through a screen transition was to make them hostile and chase you, how did you manage that?

I also would've bet on Slythe over Larze, but splat trumps stab. I think I have avoided that bandit tent lightning trap before by shifting position relative to the Lightning Bolt trajectory- not sure how.

A way to use being clever and a little knack for Charm into an enterprise of world changing. For sure this playthrough puts all the hours of accumulation, bucking up, power-hunger, etc., to shame. All the way to Sarevok's doorstep at level 1 without a copper to flip for chances.

Grond0 wrote...

Killjoy set off in search of Slythe.  Although she could have sneaked past him it amused me to be able to genuinely plead being unable to pay the 2 gold entrance fee to the undercellar.

lol... Of course, you had to intentionally dump coin to be at 0gp... not exactly a beggar's status...

A side noteworthy note would be that little metagame built-in provision for no full-HP killing blows for 1st level chars. All that sobbing about how easily BG kills 1st level chars sounds even more silly now... That's a real boon too since you're guaranteed to survive at least the first hit of anything hehe

The Lord of Murder would be very disappointed at your run and Grimwald the Wise's... but not entirely

Modifié par Bhryaen, 13 janvier 2012 - 12:59 .

[Grond0]

Bhryaen wrote...
This is fantastic! The success with the Sarevok fight is phenomenal... though it does rely on the screen transition that only Tutu/BGT offers. (Vanilla stops everything at the door.) Rest Anywhere also holds. Are you able to exit and enter the temple at will in BGT as well- i.e., before Sarevok is dead?

You can enter and exit at will until you talk to him, then you're stuck.  Having experimented a bit with vanilla after this I agree I can't see how a no-XP, no-items character could realistically beat Sarevok, though all the other required fights in the game are doable.

I'm surprised the Ducal Palace went so well. It's always been such chaos whenever I've played it. Are you saying you Charmed each dopple before they'd doppled and brought them elsewhere? If your tactic for bringing them through a screen transition was to make them hostile and chase you, how did you manage that?

I didn't use charm at all - just let Duke Belt and the guards beat them up.  My initial thoughts were to get some of the dopplegangers to chase Killjoy upstairs so that the guards could defeat them in detail, but that would have been difficult because of the dopples spell abilities provided by SCS.  Instead Killjoy just remained in the main area under stealth.  As he was not visible the dopplegangers AI was significantly impaired - essentially just defending themselves, rather than ganging up on the dukes - and the guards had no problem in defeating them.

A side noteworthy note would be that little metagame built-in provision for no full-HP killing blows for 1st level chars. All that sobbing about how easily BG kills 1st level chars sounds even more silly now... That's a real boon too since you're guaranteed to survive at least the first hit of anything hehe

It's by no means a panacea as there are many attacks that do multiple damage.  For instance any spell that allows a save for half damage, magic missile, elemental weapons and poison.  In addition a familiar seems to interfere with the mechanics so that a mage might be safer without a familiar than with one.  However, I certainly agree it can come in very handy at times!


This seems like a long time ago now, although the no-reload no-XP attempt I was just doing with a wild mage was sort of a successor.  I've given up on that for the time being, but it's definitely doable - in fact I don't even think it's that difficult (if I didn't keep being distracted).

[Bhryaen]

What's most impressive about this type of run-through though is that it makes your character into a kind of persistently meddling nobody who nevertheless manages to prevail just by pushing powerful people's buttons and doing low tech sneakiness and magic mischief- at just the right place, at just the right time, and in just the right way to completely undermine huge diabolical plots... like a more effective Noober. It reminds me of the movie "Rosencranz and Guildenstern Are Dead" where the main characters are the side characters of "Hamlet" who normally get overlooked. Instead of becoming a lofty superhero, Killjoy just became that insufferable gnat that one simply can't seem to swat until one swat accidentally overturns the the bookcase on the swatter to the swatter's demise... while the gnat buzzes away merrily. It made the ever-increasing bounty on Killjoy's head look very funny when he strode into the Undercellar with no gold... lol

"This guy is like an army to be reckoned with! You've got to mobilize all your forces to destroy him! - Sarevok"
"Hm, should I sell this bounty letter for 1gp...? Naw, don't need it..."