139 réponses à ce sujet

[StingingVelvet]

It's funny how the little things can matter so much.  I was on this forum complaining quite a lot about Dragon Age 2.  I still believe that game was immensely disappointing, not terrible mind you, but a bummer.  This DLC though?  An improvement many times over.

First off, combat is much improved.  Battles seem planned and designed now rather than trash mobs.  Hard mode seems hard without being annoying, the perfect challenge (this might have been patches, not sure).  The times when enemies do still spawn it is done much better (i.e. doors, portals, etc.).

Secondly, choice.  A wholey different area for the end of Legacy depending on who you sided with?  That's exactly what people wanted in the main game and a huge improvement.  I can actually tell Talis to go F herself?  Awesome.  Not as good as a choice-focused game like Gothic or The Witcher certainly, but much better than the fake choices in DA2 that meant nothing and the moments like Merril using blood magic that you couldn't properly react to.

Lastly, level design.  Obviously no repeated content, which isn't surprising but obviously appreciated.  Beyond that though I feel the look, art design and layout of the areas is much improved.  It might be partly learning how best to use the new aesthetic and partly focusing more on creating proper dungeons, I don't know, but it works much better.  It feels like the areas in the DLC were properly designed rather than slapped together, which the main game felt like all too often.  Also: longer dungeons.

In short while not everything I disliked about DA2 is fixed (not choosing actual dialogue, not equipping companions, one healer and long heal spell countdown) this DLC is a MASSIVE step toward the right direction.  The important statement for Bioware developers is: stay on this track, you are listening and we appreciate it.  While DA3 was a wait and see for sure after DA2, after this DLC it is now a buy on release again.

So thanks.

[Heimdall]

I'm glad I'm not the only one that realizes Bioware is capable of learning.

[Reno_Tarshil]

StingingVelvet wrote...

It's funny how the little things can matter so much.  I was on this forum complaining quite a lot about Dragon Age 2.  I still believe that game was immensely disappointing, not terrible mind you, but a bummer.  This DLC though?  An improvement many times over.

First off, combat is much improved.  Battles seem planned and designed now rather than trash mobs.  Hard mode seems hard without being annoying, the perfect challenge (this might have been patches, not sure).  The times when enemies do still spawn it is done much better (i.e. doors, portals, etc.).

Secondly, choice.  A wholey different area for the end of Legacy depending on who you sided with?  That's exactly what people wanted in the main game and a huge improvement.  I can actually tell Talis to go F herself?  Awesome.  Not as good as a choice-focused game like Gothic or The Witcher certainly, but much better than the fake choices in DA2 that meant nothing and the moments like Merril using blood magic that you couldn't properly react to.

Lastly, level design.  Obviously no repeated content, which isn't surprising but obviously appreciated.  Beyond that though I feel the look, art design and layout of the areas is much improved.  It might be partly learning how best to use the new aesthetic and partly focusing more on creating proper dungeons, I don't know, but it works much better.  It feels like the areas in the DLC were properly designed rather than slapped together, which the main game felt like all too often.  Also: longer dungeons.

In short while not everything I disliked about DA2 is fixed (not choosing actual dialogue, not equipping companions, one healer and long heal spell countdown) this DLC is a MASSIVE step toward the right direction.  The important statement for Bioware developers is: stay on this track, you are listening and we appreciate it.  While DA3 was a wait and see for sure after DA2, after this DLC it is now a buy on release again.

So thanks.

This makes me happy that at least someone's opinion can still be changed and furthers enforce my faith that Bioware is still rolling a long. (Never had a doubt to begin with tho.)

I can't wait to see what the next 2 DLC will turn out to be. (Enough solid speculation that there will be at least four given the floor mats under the lion/gryphon statues and the 2 empty ones left.)

Modifié par Reno_Tarshil, 18 octobre 2011 - 01:59 .

[Xephyr829]

I had a lot of fun with both DLCs and look forward to more.

[Complistic]

Bioware still owes me half a game.

[Morroian]

StingingVelvet wrote...

Lastly, level design.  Obviously no repeated content, which isn't surprising but obviously appreciated.  Beyond that though I feel the look, art design and layout of the areas is much improved.  It might be partly learning how best to use the new aesthetic and partly focusing more on creating proper dungeons, I don't know, but it works much better.  It feels like the areas in the DLC were properly designed rather than slapped together, which the main game felt like all too often.  Also: longer dungeons.

Firstly well said. Secondly IMHO the look has improved because they are adding in more environmental detail.

[StingingVelvet]

Reno_Tarshil wrote...

This makes me happy that at least someone's opinion can still be changed and furthers enforce my faith that Bioware is still rolling a long. (Never had a doubt to begin with tho.)

It saddens me that most of the hardcore RPG community have written the game off already.  When the DLC is mentioned on forums and such and said to be good most people respond with "that game sucks why would I care about DLC for it."  I bet for most of those people the DLC would fix a lot of what they disliked.

[seraphymon]

a DLC couldnt possibly fix all of my prblems of DA2, even in the areas that it did improve it wasnt by much. AS it is still much of the same, but again its a DLC. However the talks about the direction they want to go and are planning on so far is basically more of DA2 with a bone thrown to DAO, and no doubt more of the same BS marketing will be used.

[Foolsfolly]

StingingVelvet wrote...

It's funny how the little things can matter so much.  I was on this forum complaining quite a lot about Dragon Age 2.  I still believe that game was immensely disappointing, not terrible mind you, but a bummer.  This DLC though?  An improvement many times over.

First off, combat is much improved.  Battles seem planned and designed now rather than trash mobs.  Hard mode seems hard without being annoying, the perfect challenge (this might have been patches, not sure).  The times when enemies do still spawn it is done much better (i.e. doors, portals, etc.).

Secondly, choice.  A wholey different area for the end of Legacy depending on who you sided with?  That's exactly what people wanted in the main game and a huge improvement.  I can actually tell Talis to go F herself?  Awesome.  Not as good as a choice-focused game like Gothic or The Witcher certainly, but much better than the fake choices in DA2 that meant nothing and the moments like Merril using blood magic that you couldn't properly react to.

Lastly, level design.  Obviously no repeated content, which isn't surprising but obviously appreciated.  Beyond that though I feel the look, art design and layout of the areas is much improved.  It might be partly learning how best to use the new aesthetic and partly focusing more on creating proper dungeons, I don't know, but it works much better.  It feels like the areas in the DLC were properly designed rather than slapped together, which the main game felt like all too often.  Also: longer dungeons.

In short while not everything I disliked about DA2 is fixed (not choosing actual dialogue, not equipping companions, one healer and long heal spell countdown) this DLC is a MASSIVE step toward the right direction.  The important statement for Bioware developers is: stay on this track, you are listening and we appreciate it.  While DA3 was a wait and see for sure after DA2, after this DLC it is now a buy on release again.

So thanks.

Agreed.

Also about level design, the levels are built with gameplay in mind. Elevation for archers and mages, traps (that the enemies use), bottlenecks, room to manuever. I mean it's just all around better than the level design in the core game.

Things are shaping up well in the DLCs gameplay wise. It really makes me wish they'd had this gameplay quality level throughout the core game.

[Uccio]

Couldn´t see any difference between MoA dlc and DA2. Didn´t change my mind about the game. Most of the DA2 flaws are still there.

[Foolsfolly]

Couldn´t see any difference between MoA dlc and DA2.

Watch how the wave mechanic works. That alone is a huge step in the right direction. They don't spawn on top of you, they hold off on the edge of the battle, and then they charge in as you're taking out the last wave.

It's fantastic. They also have more specified roles for enemies with their own unique tactics and abilities. Simple things like adding genlocks with large shields adds a lot to the combat (since at leas in my experience direct damage towards their front is mostly absorbed or entirely absorbed by their shield, you must attack their flank).

Enemies use traps against you and your party now. That surprised me.

Enemies retreat and regroup.

They take advantage of higher elevation and hard to reach locations. Forcing you to either engage them at range with AoE or run a gauntlet of their melee mooks while they fire down on you with impunity.

I mean, I cannot see how you can't notice what a large step in quality the gameplay takes in these DLCs. If you dislike mechanics from DA2 they're not gone. They won't be taken out of the game. But they're finally reaching the level of quality that I'm sure the devs wanted these mechanics to have (had they had more time to develop them properly).

[Reno_Tarshil]

Foolsfolly wrote...

Couldn´t see any difference between MoA dlc and DA2.

Watch how the wave mechanic works. That alone is a huge step in the right direction. They don't spawn on top of you, they hold off on the edge of the battle, and then they charge in as you're taking out the last wave.

Also the Ghasts spawn 1 at a time from the ghast holes, thus making the whole wave thing feel natural.

[Foolsfolly]

Reno_Tarshil wrote...

Foolsfolly wrote...

Couldn´t see any difference between MoA dlc and DA2.

Watch how the wave mechanic works. That alone is a huge step in the right direction. They don't spawn on top of you, they hold off on the edge of the battle, and then they charge in as you're taking out the last wave.

Also the Ghasts spawn 1 at a time from the ghast holes, thus making the whole wave thing feel natural.

And in Legacy Carta members came in through doors.

[Reno_Tarshil]

Foolsfolly wrote...

Reno_Tarshil wrote...

Foolsfolly wrote...

Couldn´t see any difference between MoA dlc and DA2.

Watch how the wave mechanic works. That alone is a huge step in the right direction. They don't spawn on top of you, they hold off on the edge of the battle, and then they charge in as you're taking out the last wave.

Also the Ghasts spawn 1 at a time from the ghast holes, thus making the whole wave thing feel natural.

And in Legacy Carta members came in through doors.

I just noticed that yesterday morning so it's clear the DLC is an improvement.

[Jazharah]

Relative to many of BioWare's other games, especially Mass Effect and KotOR, and not to forget DA:O, DA2 remains a mediocre performance. Sure, the DLC is an improvement, and it does show that BW learns, but in the end, DA2 will be nothing more than a small amuse in between proper dishes. Nice for the meantime, not good enough for (my) fandom. Just good enough to spend my money on, but admitted, it's slightly begrudgingly.

Modifié par Jazharah, 18 octobre 2011 - 08:42 .

[Dubya75]

Complistic wrote...

Bioware still owes me half a game.

Errrm, no. Bioware does not owe you ANYTHING! 
You bought their product, you didn't like it. That's too bad.
But you're missing a fundamental principle here, which is the fact that you willingly bought their product.
It is possible to play this game start to finish, credits rolling and all that. By definition, that constitutes to a finished product.
So please do yourself (and all of us having to read your sower posts) a big favour. Deal with it and move on.

Modifié par Dubya75, 18 octobre 2011 - 09:30 .

[Dubya75]

Ukki wrote...

Couldn´t see any difference between MoA dlc and DA2. Didn´t change my mind about the game. Most of the DA2 flaws are still there.

That's simply a case of you not paying enough attention to what's going on.

[Salaya]

 I was somewhat skeptical to the new story based dlc. So, when I first played Legacy, I had a pleasant surprise: two of my most "hated" features were fixed -the recicled environments and horrible made waves. I can say the same (more or less) about MotA. Those dlcs are, to my tastes, better than the actual game. The main campaign wouldn't have been so critized if they had put the same care on it. 

Anyway, despite my satisfaction with the new dlc, I only think that they are little steps in the good direction. And in the case of MotA, those "steps" also go backwards in some areas. What I really expect from Bioware in the future DA3 (I assume DA2 dlcs won't implement the kind of changes I wish for) is a return to the classic wrpg idea they were so attached in the past. Since that's unlikely, at least I hope they return to it in some extent: bringing back non-combat skills, including persuasion, crafting and trap design; also, I really, really wish they forget about the childish tone, and go back to the intriguing ambience of Origins. In that regard, MotA was extremely disappointing; seeing those exaggerated animations and ridiculous "final moves" made me wonder on incredulity. 

So, all in all, I still think there are too many things that need to be improved. I will only buy DA3 if the two crucial aspects I said before take shape. If not..., well, there are many good wrpgs out there. DA franchise will be lost to my eyes.  

[Marionetten]

If anything I see BioWare's approach of selling item and story content separately as a warning sign. They've gone well and far beyond the fabled Bethesda's horse armor in their greed. I'll see how they handle things in Mass Effect 3 before I get positive about Dragon Age III. They might just rush it out the door and make us pay for DLC just to get anything worthwhile out of the experience. Not really interested in supporting that kind of design process.

[Dubya75]

Marionetten wrote...

If anything I see BioWare's approach of selling item and story content separately as a warning sign. They've gone well and far beyond the fabled Bethesda's horse armor in their greed. I'll see how they handle things in Mass Effect 3 before I get positive about Dragon Age III. They might just rush it out the door and make us pay for DLC just to get anything worthwhile out of the experience. Not really interested in supporting that kind of design process.

Let me see if I understand you correctly.
A company spends TIME and RECOURCES designing new DLC, they charge money for it and you have a problem with this?
They have to pay people for doing the work and they no doubt have a limited budget to do this within.

And as a result of all these costs they incur to produce the DLC, they inevitably need to somehow generate some form of income to pay for all of it (you still with me?), so they charge money for their product.

If this is the wrong approach, do you work for free then? Of course not! (unless you are living with your mother and you don't have a job in which case you will learn soon enough that this is the way the real world works).

Believe it or not, these people also need to eat and pay the bills. It is not a government-funded company, so in order to keep going they need to generate income.

And lesson 2, free stuff is hardly ever the same quality as paid-for stuff.

And finally, lesson number 3: If you support a games company by buying their DLC, you enable them to spend that money on producing better quality content in future instalments.

If you think Legacy and MotA was "rushed out the door" then I'd say they need to keep rushing stuff out the door (including DA3) because it's worked out pretty well for these 2 DLCs!

Modifié par Dubya75, 18 octobre 2011 - 11:17 .

[Marionetten]

Dubya75 wrote...

Let me see if I understand you correctly.

BioWare is by no means a charity but neither am I. I have standards. I'm not going to pour my money over them just because.

Company one rushes their product out the door half-baked then focuses excessively on wrangling pay2win items as if they were running a free MMO instead of actually improving the core product. Now and then they manage to squeeze out decent enough story packs for ten bucks a piece but unfortunately these story packs come without worthwhile items.

Company two takes their time to deliver a quality product and then takes responsibility and maintains it without treating their consumers like dairy cows. They add minor DLC enhancements for free but don't really obsess over it. The core product speaks for itself.

Fanboyism aside, which one would you rather support?

Dubya75 wrote...

And lesson 2, free stuff is hardly ever the same quality as paid-for stuff.

Because those item packs are of such exquisite quality, right? I don't have an issue with DLC when it's actually worth the money and follows a solid core production.

I think story and item content should be connected as I want the big items to come with actual stories instead of some minor codex entry written up in a minute. I also want to acquire them with my character's abilities instead of my credit card. Think Carsomyr. The Key was all of this and I loved it dearly but unfortunately it was made entirely useless thanks to scaling unless you did the quest at the very end of your experience. I call that bad design. Especially when we have pay2win items like Malcolm's Honor completely overshadowing it.

Whenever I boot up Dragon Age II it feels like I'm playing some free MMO complete with mandatory cash shop and that's really my biggest problem with it. The whole product feels inexcusably cheap in its design.

Dubya75 wrote...

And finally, lesson number 3: If you support a games company by buying their DLC, you enable them to spend that money on producing better quality content in future instalments.

I'm more inclined to believe you enable them to focus more on DLC by effectively validating that approach. Why bother creating a quality product which might take a few years when you can whip up something so-so in one and then sell the rest as DLC?

It's a fortunate thing that I'm not paying you tuition fees.

Modifié par Marionetten, 18 octobre 2011 - 11:37 .

[LexXxich]

I don't think you can call that a honest improvement when it's sold to you for additional fee, and doesn't even fix main campaign.

[Dubya75]

LexXxich wrote...

I don't think you can call that a honest improvement when it's sold to you for additional fee, and doesn't even fix main campaign.

No you're right, it doesn't fix the main campaign. It is DLC. 
They already fixed what they could in patch 1.03. It was free.

The improvements in gameplay and other mechanics has nothing to do with the price tag of the DLC. 
Just because they charge for it, does it mean they improvements are nullified? Of course not!

[Complistic]

Dubya75 wrote...

LexXxich wrote...

I don't think you can call that a honest improvement when it's sold to you for additional fee, and doesn't even fix main campaign.

No you're right, it doesn't fix the main campaign. It is DLC. 
They already fixed what they could in patch 1.03. It was free.

The improvements in gameplay and other mechanics has nothing to do with the price tag of the DLC. 
Just because they charge for it, does it mean they improvements are nullified? Of course not!

They could fix the main game if they cared enough to.

[Feanor_II]

StingingVelvet wrote...

Reno_Tarshil wrote...

This makes me happy that at least someone's opinion can still be changed and furthers enforce my faith that Bioware is still rolling a long. (Never had a doubt to begin with tho.)

It saddens me that most of the hardcore RPG community have written the game off already.  When the DLC is mentioned on forums and such and said to be good most people respond with "that game sucks why would I care about DLC for it."  I bet for most of those people the DLC would fix a lot of what they disliked.

I usually have little love for DLCs (which I consider moneysuckers, expansions pack offer better price-quality-entretaiment balance), but my problems with DA2 go deeper that just recycled areas and combat waves.