139 réponses à ce sujet

[billy the squid]

David Gaider wrote...

Fiery Phoenix wrote...
If you don't mind my asking, what are the chances of DA2 getting an Awakening-sized expansion at some point in the foreseeable future?

Sorry, but there's no point in asking. Even if we were planning such a thing, I (or anyone else at BioWare) wouldn't be permitted to discuss it prior to an official announcement. This is the way public companies work.

Ve have vays of making you talk Herr Gaider..... *gets on knees* Please, Please, Please.

Seriously though, I'm not suprised, publicly listed companies always have a ton of legislation and internal rules to abide by.

Modifié par billy the squid, 22 octobre 2011 - 11:50 .

[FedericoV]

Yrkoon wrote...

But on a serious note,  I'm not quite sure what you mean by "healthy to the genre".   Is there any evidence at all that Cosplay  increases   game sales?  Just curious.

Maybe I've not explained myself. I was simply surprised to see young players cosplaying DA2 charachters. It means that they are fans of the franchise and I was not expecting such a young audience. Why is it good? It has nothing to do with cosplay off course, that's just a sign, an effect. I'm just saying that it's nice if younger gamers are interested in western cRPGs.

I simply do not want to see the genre evolving like D&D: I mean, I hold a lot of dear and nice memories about D&D but the way it was developed after WotC has taken charge was designed mostly for the allready chore audience of 30+ years gamers, without a lot of thought about accessibility and how to widen the fanbase.

In time, the player base has become narrower and when they tried something to lure new blood to the genre (4th edition, new red box) it was too little and too late. At the moment, D&D is completely irrelevant sadly.  I don't want cRPGs to become irrelevant and stale too, like many other products who have only been designed with the allready existing (and aging) fanbase in mind. I like to see younger people interested in a fantasy/party based WRPG. Is it wrong?

Having said that: I've been to many comic and games fairs and cosplay is fun. There's nothing wrong about it and I understand why a dev could feel rewarded to see players wearing the uniforms of one of their creations.

Say what?    Don't get me wrong, I'm all for teamwork and an increased emphasis on positioning.  These are good things.  But what the hell does that have to do with the silly acrobatics and  the obnoxiously fast combat speed?

Well, you could be right of course but it was a very brief and superficial presentation of general principles and maybe you were expecting too much? They simply have not talked about those issues but that does not mean that they are not considering it. They have allready removed most body explosion with patches AFAIK and worked really hard to improve the pacing of combat (especially in Legacy).

Modifié par FedericoV, 22 octobre 2011 - 12:29 .

[Playest]

I don't think the question ever was "IF Bioware can" make a good dragon age game. We all saw that with Origins. The questions is "why didn't they". The issue with DA2 is that it was a rush job almost from the point of conception.

If they take thier time and do it right then DA3 will be great. If monetary concerns force them to shove it out the door in 2012 it will probably be garbage.

The best indicator of weather or not DA3 is a Must Buy will be the release date.

[KilrB]

Yrkoon wrote...

Dubya75 wrote...


Aaah I see! so you don't like the combat animations? Too bad, because most people think it's a huge improvement over Origins!

  LOL  Well, most DA2 fans, maybe.

To just about everyone else, it falls into  one of the following categories:

1)Ugh
2)Meh

And those 2 don't make for Game of the Year material. 

You forgot:

3) WTF!!!

&

4) WTF is THIS doing in Dragon Age!!!

 ... or maybe that was just me.

[Addai]

Complistic wrote...

Bioware still owes me half a game.

Agreed.  OP, I'm sort of confused at how your reaction could be so different to mine.  Legacy was neutral, but MoTA reinforced my feeling that the franchise is off the rails and just not my game anymore.  The fact that they employed minimally creative standards in level design and gameplay variety is an improvement over the base game, but hardly something to crow about.  That's giving credit for something that should have been there in the first place.

[KilrB]

Playest wrote...

I don't think the question ever was "IF Bioware can" make a good dragon age game. We all saw that with Origins. The questions is "why didn't they". The issue with DA2 is that it was a rush job almost from the point of conception.

If they take thier time and do it right then DA3 will be great. If monetary concerns force them to shove it out the door in 2012 it will probably be garbage.

The best indicator of weather or not DA3 is a Must Buy will be the release date.

Sorry, NO.

They were convinced that DA2 was a great game too, rushed release or no.

Time had nothing to do with the changes they made, just their lack of polish.

Most of what many of us dislike about it resulted not from a lack of time but deliberate design changes,

No amount of additional time will make DA3 better if they continue in the direction they are headed.

What has been revealed so far is simply not going to be enough to save it.

(Edit for grammar)

Modifié par KilrB, 22 octobre 2011 - 04:05 .

[FedericoV]

KilrB wrote...

They were convinced that DA2 was a great game too, rushed release or no.
Time had nothing to do with the changes they made, just their lack of polish.

It has even a lot to do with lack of quality, interactivity, roleplaying, variety and content. Wich are some of the most repeated complaints about DA2 that have been addressed in the DLCs. If the game had the same level of quality and attention to details of its DLCs, the reception would have been clearly better.

Most of what many of us dislike about it resulted not a lack of time but deliberate design changes,
No amount of additional time will make DA3 better if they continue in the direction they are headed.
What has been revealed so far is simply not going to be enough to save it.

Are you sure? I mean, I sort of agree. DA2's basic design concept is "let's make a compromise about everything". And the result is mediocre because no player like compromises and even because, if you want to make a compromise, DA:O is allready a better one.

But what if with time, care and creativity they find ways to address the same issues they wanted to address with DA2 but with new genuine features that does not look and play like a form of rushed compromise? If the game overall is very good and if the story resonates with the player base, if the production values are high, I believe that people will forget DA2 and DA:O too, no matter what the general direction is.

[KilrB]

FedericoV wrote...

KilrB wrote...

They were convinced that DA2 was a great game too, rushed release or no.
Time had nothing to do with the changes they made, just their lack of polish.

It has even a lot to do with lack of quality, interactivity, roleplaying, variety and content. Wich are some of the most repeated complaints about DA2 that have been addressed in the DLCs. If the game had the same level of quality and attention to details of its DLCs, the reception would have been clearly better.

Most of what many of us dislike about it resulted not a lack of time but deliberate design changes,
No amount of additional time will make DA3 better if they continue in the direction they are headed.
What has been revealed so far is simply not going to be enough to save it.

Are you sure? I mean, I sort of agree. DA2's basic design concept is "let's make a compromise about everything". And the result is mediocre because no player like compromises and even because, if you want to make a compromise, DA:O is allready a better one.

But what if with time, care and creativity they find ways to address the same issues they wanted to address with DA2 but with new genuine features that does not look and play like a form of rushed compromise? If the game overall is very good and if the story resonates with the player base, if the production values are high, I believe that people will forget DA2 and DA:O too, no matter what the general direction is.

That is indeed a possibility.

I won't be holding my breath though.

[Playest]

KilrB wrote...

They were convinced that DA2 was a great game too, rushed release or no.

Time had nothing to do with the changes they made, just their lack of polish.

Most of what many of us dislike about it resulted not from a lack of time but deliberate design changes,

No amount of additional time will make DA3 better if they continue in the direction they are headed.

What has been revealed so far is simply not going to be enough to save it.

(Edit for grammar)

Just because they billed it as a great game doesn't mean they're convinced of it themselves.

The biggest problems with the game; Weak central narative, lack of choice, recycled enviorments, poorly implemented wave combat. Were all things that can be improved given time

Even the premise of a decade long rise to power plays out as an excuse to reuse assets.

[Uccio]

KilrB wrote...

Yrkoon wrote...

Dubya75 wrote...


Aaah I see! so you don't like the combat animations? Too bad, because most people think it's a huge improvement over Origins!

  LOL  Well, most DA2 fans, maybe.

To just about everyone else, it falls into  one of the following categories:

1)Ugh
2)Meh

And those 2 don't make for Game of the Year material. 

You forgot:

3) WTF!!!

&

4) WTF is THIS doing in Dragon Age!!!

 ... or maybe that was just me.

Not just you.

[Edge2177]

We still need a huge expansion... in Orlais... with Sandal, who said he was going there... to wrap all of this up.

Did I mention it should be epic like Throne of Bhaal in climactic story tale ending?

Modifié par Edge2177, 22 octobre 2011 - 09:05 .

[Uccio]

FedericoV wrote...

It has even a lot to do with lack of quality, interactivity, roleplaying, variety and content. Wich are some of the most repeated complaints about DA2 that have been addressed in the DLCs. If the game had the same level of quality and attention to details of its DLCs, the reception would have been clearly better.

How were these issues addressed in the dlcs? The obvious ones were to add more maps and remove paratroops, thats it. All the major flaws DA2 had in my books were still there. No companion interaction, no companion modification, choises (lack of), cartoonis graphics and combat mechanics (unreal). So nothing which would make me buy the 3rd game was not fixed so far. 

For me the recycled maps and paratroops would have even be ok if all the other issues would have been corrected.

ps. even they were numbing.

Modifié par Ukki, 22 octobre 2011 - 09:27 .

[In Exile]

Addai67 wrote...
Agreed.  OP, I'm sort of confused at how your reaction could be so different to mine.  Legacy was neutral, but MoTA reinforced my feeling that the franchise is off the rails and just not my game anymore.  The fact that they employed minimally creative standards in level design and gameplay variety is an improvement over the base game, but hardly something to crow about.  That's giving credit for something that should have been there in the first place.

There are two possible reactions you can have to DA2 if you think it's bad - (1) it's bad because of all the ways Bioware failed to implement features or (2) it's bad because of the features Bioware chose to implement. 

If your problem is (1) then more polish, more variation, etc. is something that significantly improves your experience. If the problem is (2), then Bioware can't do anything to even begin dealing with your complaints without scrapping the base game entirely. 

[Fallstar]

Liking that video. I don't know if I'm being taken in by marketing, but some of the compromises I thought would just lead to a weak game seem like they might work. (The companion equipment and combat speed/style) We'll see I guess.

[MDarwin]

The DA2 DLC's, will do nothing for me, to change DA3 in to a "Must Buy Game ". As of fear of another DA2 disaster/fiasco. My personal opinion, that is.

Modifié par MDarwin, 22 octobre 2011 - 11:16 .

[FedericoV]

Ukki wrote...

FedericoV wrote...

It has even a lot to do with lack of quality, interactivity, roleplaying, variety and content. Wich are some of the most repeated complaints about DA2 that have been addressed in the DLCs. If the game had the same level of quality and attention to details of its DLCs, the reception would have been clearly better.

How were these issues addressed in the dlcs? The obvious ones were to add more maps and remove paratroops, thats it. All the major flaws DA2 had in my books were still there. No companion interaction, no companion modification, choises (lack of), cartoonis graphics and combat mechanics (unreal). So nothing which would make me buy the 3rd game was not fixed so far. 

For me the recycled maps and paratroops would have even be ok if all the other issues would have been corrected.

For starters, if you completely hate DA2 there is no way that a DLC can fix things for you. That's obvious: it's a DLC, not another game or a proper expansion. DLC can fix things for people like me who were unhappy (even angry) with the execution of DA2 and not with the general direction of the game (at least, not in every aspect: for example, I do not like a lot DA2 anime-ish art direction at all while I like the voice over for the main charachter and the new dialogue system).

Having said that, returning to my list, that's how Bioware have fixed things in my opinion. Quality: The DLCs have a lot of attention to details and have high production values. Variety: both DLCs were very varied in terms of gameplay. Interesting encounter design, new kind of enemies with different tactics, differnet gameplay mode (stealth, puzzles, etc). Content: no recycled map at all (at least, the recycle was done in a way that do not feel redundant).

Excessive linearity and lack of roleplaying were still an issue and I hope that in future DLCs they will try to address those problems too (at least in Legacy there was an interesting choice with actual consequences... while in MotA it was all blocked because of Felicia Day web series I suppose... canon issues and all). Having said that, Bioware has never believed too much in excessive branching: they have allways made storydriven linear games. So I do not expect them to make something like Fallout 1 or The Witcher 2. I would just like them having a more reactive world where the choice you make affect visibly the reaction of NPCs and your personal story.

Modifié par FedericoV, 23 octobre 2011 - 12:44 .

[Leoroc]

David Gaider wrote...

Fiery Phoenix wrote...
If you don't mind my asking, what are the chances of DA2 getting an Awakening-sized expansion at some point in the foreseeable future?

Sorry, but there's no point in asking. Even if we were planning such a thing, I (or anyone else at BioWare) wouldn't be permitted to discuss it prior to an official announcement. This is the way public companies work.

But I can tell you they are working on such a thing and it is called Exalted March but will be released digitally only, not on store shelves.

Addendum: Expect it to be announced after ME3/TOR come out.

Modifié par Leoroc, 23 octobre 2011 - 02:12 .

[Bio Addict]

Leoroc wrote...

David Gaider wrote...

Fiery Phoenix wrote...
If you don't mind my asking, what are the chances of DA2 getting an Awakening-sized expansion at some point in the foreseeable future?

Sorry, but there's no point in asking. Even if we were planning such a thing, I (or anyone else at BioWare) wouldn't be permitted to discuss it prior to an official announcement. This is the way public companies work.

But I can tell you they are working on such a thing and it is called Exalted March but will be released digitally only, not on store shelves.

Addendum: Expect it to be announced after ME3/TOR come out.

If only I knew this was the case with certainty I would be one happy Hawke.

Modifié par Bio Addict, 23 octobre 2011 - 02:27 .

[Leoroc]

Cthulhu42 wrote...

Leoroc wrote...

David Gaider wrote...

Fiery Phoenix wrote...
If you don't mind my asking, what are the chances of DA2 getting an Awakening-sized expansion at some point in the foreseeable future?

Sorry, but there's no point in asking. Even if we were planning such a thing, I (or anyone else at BioWare) wouldn't be permitted to discuss it prior to an official announcement. This is the way public companies work.

But I can tell you they are working on such a thing and it is called Exalted March but will be released digitally only, not on store shelves.

Addendum: Expect it to be announced after ME3/TOR come out.

And you know this/can prove this how?

By paying very close attention. I wasn't the first to figure it out

[Uccio]

FedericoV wrote...

Ukki wrote...

FedericoV wrote...

It has even a lot to do with lack of quality, interactivity, roleplaying, variety and content. Wich are some of the most repeated complaints about DA2 that have been addressed in the DLCs. If the game had the same level of quality and attention to details of its DLCs, the reception would have been clearly better.

How were these issues addressed in the dlcs? The obvious ones were to add more maps and remove paratroops, thats it. All the major flaws DA2 had in my books were still there. No companion interaction, no companion modification, choises (lack of), cartoonis graphics and combat mechanics (unreal). So nothing which would make me buy the 3rd game was not fixed so far. 

For me the recycled maps and paratroops would have even be ok if all the other issues would have been corrected.

Having said that, returning to my list, that's how Bioware have fixed things in my opinion. Quality: The DLCs have a lot of attention to details and have high production values. 

I somewhat agree with you on the other issues but for me this is just plain crap (not meaning your opinion but the games quality). All I need is to check TW2 game and then get back to DA2 (and these dlcs) to see how simple and childish this game is when it comes to attention to detail. For example, I used to draw trees like the ones in MotA back in 2nd grade but stopped doing so since I thought they were bad. But here we have the same level in a game which should be on top of its branch.

[FedericoV]

Ukki wrote...

I somewhat agree with you on the other issues but for me this is just plain crap (not meaning your opinion but the games quality). All I need is to check TW2 game and then get back to DA2 (and these dlcs) to see how simple and childish this game is when it comes to attention to detail. For example, I used to draw trees like the ones in MotA back in 2nd grade but stopped doing so since I thought they were bad. But here we have the same level in a game which should be on top of its branch.

Ukki, I understand your point, really. TW2 looks spectacular. The attention to details is stunning. I believe that it's the best looking game I've ever played. Maybe it's unfair to compare a multiplatform party based title like DA2 to a PC single charachter title like TW2. But it's true: DA2 looks lazy and childish compared to TW2. What I mean is that in the context of what DA2 graphic engine can offer, the DLC's improvement in terms of attention to detail is evident and I appreciate the effort. As I said before: you can expect improvements, but it's unrealistic to expect another game.

[Uccio]

Well ok, I give them that. Compared to DA2 both dlcs are improved and step in better direction. How much is enough still remains to be seen though.

[Dragoonlordz]

It is no surprise and pretty much known I think that I did not enjoy the overall experience of DA2 even sold my copy and therefore no have no intention of funding DA2 itself and further progress DLC regarding DA2. [But] from what I have heard Bioware has made positive steps via DLC and while I can only go by what others have said on the DLC being good, it does not fill me with desire to go out and buy the game again + pay for DLC as the game has not changed it is still the same game only the DLC is any good. I am willing to wait and see how DA3 turns out due to these changes they have made via DLC or whether they in any way shape or form go back to what I consider the negative aspects of DA2 I did not enjoy.

In short it means I do not consider any DLC of value enough to re-purchase the original game + DLC. It does give some hope towards the future complete title which may get me to open my wallet if stays on course and gets better. Thats about as far as I am willing to go at this time.

Modifié par Dragoonlordz, 30 octobre 2011 - 11:28 .

[kingjezza]

Makes me laugh that people are bending over backwards to praise Bioware for simply doing stuff they should have made the effort to do in the first place, great they are creating a few new areas and putting a bit of effort in, that should have happened for the base game. They are basically charging $10 a pop for things they should have done anyway and people are lapping up it.

If the base game wasn't so lacking and it didn't feel like half a game I wouldn't have a problem with it, but it is/does, so I don't see why they are being praised so highly on here.