16 réponses à ce sujet

[Almightywood]

I have gotten this game to run on a Compaq Presario V3000 with an onboard 945gm GPU by using  SwiftShader 3.0 (made by transgaming) I am also using a modded driver for this gpu (Sherry 1.3) made by these guys: http://forum.9xxssf.info/

Only have 1 Gig of ram on the laptop, 1.6GHz duo core.

Obviously it is windowed mode, and the video settings are all set to low.
The game lags like mad, but is still playable, combat hasn't even been bad either, thanks to pause and ai.

These things will most likely never get better, and most people would prefer not to even play the game under these conditions, but it is possible, so I was stating how.

[Gorath Alpha]

Although the basis used for minimum estimates is not widely known, quite often the developers want to name a graphics card with sufficient performance to consistently, reliably run 35-45 FPS while using a Medium Screen Resolution. The image quality settings aren't as important as the frame rate; they will consider Low Quality settings acceptable if the other two criteria are met.

Quite often, this same relatively ordinary choice can be used at Low Resolution, matched with Medium Image Quality settings, and still run the desired animation smoothness, That leaves room for lesser performance, at slower frame rates.

Mass Effect Two demands no less than 20 FPS to dependably interact with the game's environment, which eliminates cards such as the Geforce 205, 210, 310, 410, and probably the 520. Among relatively recent Radeons, the HD 4350 and 4550 fall short, and the Laptop versions of the HD 54xx cards.

social.bioware.com/forum/1/topic/58/index/128343

Modifié par Gorath Alpha, 21 octobre 2011 - 07:41 .

[Almightywood]

Swiftshader is a little interesting. It's kind of like it's own dx and shader DLL.

It's actually a library that they want people to license to include in their own programs from my understanding. They just put a demo version so people can see how good it is.

[Gorath Alpha]

I'd omitted an additional factor that is probably worth considering. AFAIK, no one has ever applied any systematic breakage testing to verify this, so the best we can say is that anecdotal references have begun accumulating. When "forcing" low end hardware to try to perform so very far beyond the design envelope, massive overheating can occur, without at all adequate cooling, not even from cooling pads beneath laptops. Those will usually throttle themselves when the overheating reaches the CPU, but meanwhile, the chipset reached some thermal levels that even modern silicon isn't easily able to shrug off.

This same cyclical type event probably also affects low quality discrete graphics cards, but they almost always have some level of cooling beyond that afforded for chipset chips, and also will eventually shut themselves completely off if too hot, and that should slow down the speed at which the damage from the hoo-high heat levels will accumulate and cause the performance to start failing.

The results, over repeated sessions, for many low quality systems, is often an accumulation of thermal damage that eventually affects the quality and performance of the video device, and in the case of chipset solutions, whatever else it shares space with. IWhen ntel's i3 / i5 / i7 series CPUs moved the video off the chipset onto the processor package, the improved cooling situation for those causes them to be somewhat less "exposed" in this regard.

Gorath

Modifié par Gorath Alpha, 19 octobre 2011 - 03:10 .

[Almightywood]

From what the people have been telling me on the site where I got my modded graphics driver swiftshader completely bypasses the gpu other than to use it's output so no strain should be placed on it whatsoever.

[Moondoggie]

Bullcrap lol. No software can take over from the GPU or oither hardware it doesn't work that way. Software can only enhance the display what it cannot do is take the strain away from hardware. Heat and strain are still a consideration. But it's your laptop. If you wish to reduce it's life by pushing it beyond what it is capable of for long periods against anyone elses advice go for it.

Modifié par Moondoggie, 19 octobre 2011 - 12:59 .

[Gorath Alpha]

Almightywood wrote...

From what the people have been telling me on the site where I got my modded graphics driver swiftshader completely bypasses the gpu other than to use it's output so no strain should be placed on it whatsoever.

It can't have any output at all unless it's working, and if the game ends up running faster than 2-5 FPS (slide show), it's not a VGA emulator, since system memory is way too slow for the CPU to go much faster than that while running the game and pretending to be a GPU as well.  As noted, the Intel chip that rides in the processor package gets to take advantage of the CPU's cooler, so deterioration effects will accumulate more slowly for those chip video devices. 

Moondoggie wrote...

Bullcrap lol. No software can take over from the GPU or oither hardware
it doesn't work that way. Software can only enhance the display what it
cannot do is take the strain away from hardware. Heat and strain are still
a consideration. But it's your laptop. If you wish to reduce it's life by
pushing it beyond what it is capable of for long periods against anyone
els'es advice, go for it.

Intel's chips didn't include basic Transform and Lighting effects until relatively recently, and there have been CPU-based programs to replace that omission "3D analyze" was the most popular of them.  But it was bog-slow.  The last couple of years, the very best of what Intel now includes has at long last been on a par with the features and functions of basic business graphics cards, but now their drivers are no damned good.

Accumulated heat damage will be slower to build up in these late-model Intel products that moved video off the chipset, and it will also be more generalized in the case of Laptops, with Hard Drives, Optical Drives, and main memory RAM all suffering from the heat problems. 

Modifié par Gorath Alpha, 19 octobre 2011 - 03:13 .

[Almightywood]

It really does seem to take the processes and perform them on a cpu level instead of a gpu level, go read for yourself. http://transgaming.c...ess/swiftshader

[Gorath Alpha]

Nothing but smoke and mirrors. It's some sort of con.

MEANWHILE:

Can my PC run this game? (DAO)

social.bioware.com/forum/1/topic/58/index/7311001

Video Card Shader Performance Rankings* (DA: O):

social.bioware.com/forum/1/topic/58/index/128343

Corrected Requirements (DAO), and filling in a problem report:

social.bioware.com/forum/1/topic/58/index/6015114

How to Proceed with Game Trouble Shooting (DAO)

social.bioware.com/forum/1/topic/58/index/5783187

Modifié par Gorath Alpha, 21 octobre 2011 - 11:11 .

[SSV Enterprise]

Yeah. Shifting the focus back to software rendering rather than hardware rendering is part of what Intel tried with their Larrabee GPU project, and it failed so miserably they didn't even bother releasing it. If Intel can't do it, I doubt anyone can.

[Gorath Alpha]

It's been long enough now since the last of Larrabee came and went, that the entire tale is no longer so very clear in memory, and I don't want to look it up.  They wanted to alter the entire graphical environment to embrace Ray-tracing technology, that was where they started.  They didn't particularly want to leave any of it up to the CPU, not that I recall, but they couldn't manage to do what they wanted in hardware in the time frame and at the total unit cost that they had aimed for. 

The various demos that they offered for Larrabee during its relatively short lifetime probably were supported, as you noted, by moving much of the processing onto the CPU, but I don't recall that aspect so very well.  What I'm trying to be sure that any casual reader of this thread is aware of, is that Low Quality hardware simply cannot be magically changed into Gaming Mainline Level with any software magic bullets; there just isn't any such thing.  It will still be Low Quality, with all that is entailed in that definition. 

[Almightywood]

No offense, but you guys are just a couple of dudes that like to post on some gaming forums.

I know for a fact that this makes applications playable that shouldn't be possible to be played.
The people that mod and create graphics drivers stated that what I said it does, it does.
They are without a doubt more knowledgeable about the matter than either of you, not only because I introduced you both to it, but also because they have a much greater understanding of how the whole process works.

Bottom line is, you don't really know what you are talking about. Instead you are taking the "I don't know about it, so I will err on the side of caution approach."
In a general sort of way you are right, but you know nothing about SwiftShader and really shouldn't advise people one way or the other on it, as proven by the fact that you called it a con.

As for insuring that people realize that low quality hardware is still low quality, I stated that more than adequately enough with my initial post. Just because you spent a couple of years telling people it was impossible to play this game without so good a card does not mean that you should troll down the first viable solution ever offered on these forums. Especially considering that I am 100% positive that not a one of you even bothered to test it. Nor will you because you don't have a need. Unless you do, you really don't have a right to comment about the program.

The program is a crutch. The only people that can review a crutch are those with broken legs.

Modifié par Almightywood, 24 octobre 2011 - 10:47 .

[Moondoggie]

I love it when people tell Gorath he doesn't know what he is talking about when it comes to Graphics Hardware and software it's funny.

The thing about crutches is they are only good for so long. You need to fix the root of the problem or it only degrades to a point where the crutch is no more help and then you need a wheelchair and so on. Putting a band-aid over a problem is not the way to solve it. Eventually that wound opens so much that the band-aid is useless.

The software you are pushing on here is one nobody on here would want to endorse and people like Gorath encourage people to update their hardware to play games rather than offer bad solutions that don't offer good quality gaming for a reason.

Many have followed his advice and been able to enjoy games at the quality they should be played and he's one of the group of people on here who give up their personal time to give people decent practical advice for PC gaming and they do know what they are talking about. So show a little respect and quit sulking.

[Almightywood]

Moondoggie wrote...

I love it when people tell Gorath he doesn't know what he is talking about when it comes to Graphics Hardware and software it's funny.

The thing about crutches is they are only good for so long. You need to fix the root of the problem or it only degrades to a point where the crutch is no more help and then you need a wheelchair and so on. Putting a band-aid over a problem is not the way to solve it. Eventually that wound opens so much that the band-aid is useless.

The software you are pushing on here is one nobody on here would want to endorse and people like Gorath encourage people to update their hardware to play games rather than offer bad solutions that don't offer good quality gaming for a reason.

Many have followed his advice and been able to enjoy games at the quality they should be played and he's one of the group of people on here who give up their personal time to give people decent practical advice for PC gaming and they do know what they are talking about. So show a little respect and quit sulking.

I never said he didn't know anything about graphics software. I said he didn't know as much as those who modded the drivers, and that he knew nothing about this particular software I was talking about. Which is 100% true, since I am the one that introduced it to him.


I am pushing nothing. I am offering a viable solution, that I am 100 % positive that someone will come on here and end up using it. The only reason I bothered to post it here is because I saw a whole bunch of threads on these forums asking for exactly this. If you don't believe me, why don't you try doing a search about unsupported video cards?

And If this guy Gorath actually took the time to test out this software, and told me that he tested these ranges, and some specifics, I would believe him. I just know that he hasn't. You could tell me that all you wanted, and I'd never believe you, since you can't even follow the flow of the conversation.

Bottom line is I bothered to post this to help the people who were looking for this, and I don't appreciate being talked down to by someone who knows less about the topic than I, and this includes both you and Gorath.

[cihimi]

why even bother playing video games mired in lag, low settings, and snail-paced combat? you want to prove that your "solution" can make games playable. ok, it technically works, but playable in those conditions? why?

[Almightywood]

I don't "want" to prove anything, I never recommended this, I am merely pointing out an option for the desperate. I know plenty of video game addicts that must play the game (the game being whatever they are currently addicted to) regardless of any circumstances. Your own personal opinion 

cihimi wrote...

why even bother playing video games mired in lag, low settings, and snail-paced combat? you want to prove that your "solution" can make games playable. ok, it technically works, but playable in those conditions? why?

 doesn't change that fact. Which you would have understood, if you had bothered to read my posts for what they said, instead of what you could argue with. All you are doing is trolling, go back under your bridge.

[RaenImrahl]

This doesn't have anything to do with a specific tech issue-- we're done here.

Locking.

RI