Is it? The reason I ask is because of the diminishment of dialogue options in ME2, and if the Mass 3 demos are any indication, ME3 as well. I just got finished playing Thane's recruitment mission, followed by LoTSB. Both of these heavily featured automatic dialogue, with a few nice/mean responses sprinkled here and there. It's pretty obvious that Bioware's giving the player less freedom with Shepard since they're trying to mold him into a specific iconic character, so why not go all the way? Nice/Mean responses do nothing except change the tone in which you say something. The single option dialogue progression is useless.
Take talking to miranda for example, or LoTSB. Why not just have full auto dialogue instead of only having one dialogue option to choose from? Miranda's dialogue is an excellent example. You only have one option to progress the dialogue, that's it. There's no choice in it at all, not even the nice/mean responses. The only time it branches slightly is if you do the romance. Now Jacob is a good example of player choice. There are many options to choose from with Jacob's dialogue on the ship which contrasts Miranda's conversations significantly.
Looking at the ME3 E3 stage demo, we see the same auto dialogue when Shepard talks to Mordin, and then the Krogan princess. The prologue demo with anderson features it as well, with the vent scene giving the player a nice/mean choice which I doubt will change the outcome of the situation.
Bottom line is, Bioware's apparently starting to make Shepard more of a predefined character in order to establish their canon with the new fan base. My problem is, why not go all the way? Why take control of shepard out of the players hands 90% of the time, and then give us only one option to continue the conversation, or give us the option to act like a nice guy or a jerk? It doesn't affect Shepard's personality at all because when the game takes control again, he goes back to the canon state. Personally I don't like that they're doing this. To me it kills immersion and replayability having to hear the same auto dialogue every playthrough. However I understand their taking of this approach since a lot of the shooter fanbase complained about too much dialogue. I just figured they should go all the way, without giving us the illusion of choice. Honestly at this point, the dialogue wheel just isn't needed.
-Polite
Is the dialogue wheel needed anymore?
Débuté par
Jaron Oberyn
, oct. 18 2011 09:32
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#5
Posté 18 octobre 2011 - 09:36
Jaron Oberyn
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Well considering dragon age is apparently going to replace theirs with icons, why not ME3 as well? It's nothing but choosing a happy or angry response.
-Polite
-Polite
#6
Posté 18 octobre 2011 - 09:37
Chris Priestly
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Silly Polite, it is how you choose your dialog. If you did not have it, you could not choose. What a silly idea. Silly Polite is silly.
#7
Posté 18 octobre 2011 - 09:37
SarunasAndSoOn
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LOTSB is a canon mission, there isnt gonna be a any huge decisions made, and i doubt that they showed all of the options on the demos. at the NYCC demo there was no dialogue wheel at all so if you prefer it do play that
Modifié par SarunasAndSoOn, 18 octobre 2011 - 09:38 .
#8
Posté 18 octobre 2011 - 09:38
wizardryforever
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People like the illusion of choice, even if it is a paper thin illusion. Besides, I don't think the problem is as bad as you're making it sound. There were a few instances where there really is only one conclusion to be drawn, and Shepard draws it without input from you. Sure this takes things out of your hands, and some of the lines are pretty bad (both games had some doozies in that regard), but I prefer that over all three options essentially saying the exact same thing. Take Shepard's responses when Anderson is questioning him/her after Eden Prime. Very few of those options are really different from the others, yet they are listed as options.
#9
Posté 18 octobre 2011 - 09:41
rolson00
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you sound like ross from friendsChris Priestly wrote...
Silly Polite, it is how you choose your dialog. If you did not have it, you could not choose. What a silly idea. Silly Polite is silly.
#10
Posté 18 octobre 2011 - 09:41
Luigitornado
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Oh yes. Since it's the end, Bioware has free reign to go in as many different directions as they want without having to worry about ME4.
#11
Posté 18 octobre 2011 - 09:43
Reaper Kitten of Doom
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I like the dialog wheel, but I would like it to be more rewarding to play a balanced/neutral character.
#12
Posté 18 octobre 2011 - 09:45
Jaron Oberyn
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Chris Priestly wrote...
Silly Polite, it is how you choose your dialog. If you did not have it, you could not choose. What a silly idea. Silly Polite is silly.
Ahhh Mr. Priestly. Considering the fact that a good portion of the dialogue in ME2 isn't chosen but played out automatically, it wouldn't really be silly if the rest of it were that way now would it.
SarunasAndSoOn wrote...
LOTSB is a canon mission, there isnt gonna be a any huge decisions made, and i doubt that they showed all of the options on the demos. at the NYCC demo there was no dialogue wheel at all so if you prefer it do play that
A lot of the auto dialogue in LoTSB wasn't decision making though. It was definition of character. Canonical. And how do you explain Miranda's dialogue, or Thane's mission?
-Polite
Modifié par PoliteAssasin, 18 octobre 2011 - 09:45 .
#13
Posté 18 octobre 2011 - 09:47
BatmanPWNS
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Even though most choices are pretty much useless and contribute to nothing but the wheel has become something like a signature for the series and I don't see it going anywhere.
#14
Posté 18 octobre 2011 - 09:47
stonbw1
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I haven't played it, but I thought DA2 did something similar to OP's request. Apparently, you would choose one 'dialogue' option at the very begining of the game and from that choice, the game somewhat inferred your stance (sarcastic, mean, humorous, etc) throughout the game. I may be wrong and you folks can probably clarify.
#15
Posté 18 octobre 2011 - 09:50
sp0ck 06
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PoliteAssasin wrote...
Chris Priestly wrote...
Silly Polite, it is how you choose your dialog. If you did not have it, you could not choose. What a silly idea. Silly Polite is silly.
Ahhh Mr. Priestly. Considering the fact that a good portion of the dialogue in ME2 isn't chosen but played out automatically, it wouldn't really be silly if the rest of it were that way now would it.SarunasAndSoOn wrote...
LOTSB is a canon mission, there isnt gonna be a any huge decisions made, and i doubt that they showed all of the options on the demos. at the NYCC demo there was no dialogue wheel at all so if you prefer it do play that
A lot of the auto dialogue in LoTSB wasn't decision making though. It was definition of character. Canonical. And how do you explain Miranda's dialogue, or Thane's mission?
-Polite
Some missions have a lot more choice than others. True, Thane's recruitment is pretty straightfoward, but his loyalty mission has a ton of options. Or Tali's LM. Or Samara's.
I kind of agree with what your saying, but I'll wait till ME3 and see. They really haven't even shown a conversation yet.
#16
Posté 18 octobre 2011 - 09:53
Jaron Oberyn
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stonbw1 wrote...
I haven't played it, but I thought DA2 did something similar to OP's request. Apparently, you would choose one 'dialogue' option at the very begining of the game and from that choice, the game somewhat inferred your stance (sarcastic, mean, humorous, etc) throughout the game. I may be wrong and you folks can probably clarify.
What request? I request more dialogue options, but I know it's not going to be there since Shep's is predefined now. As for DA, I've heard people say that based on your dialogue choices throughout the game it determines which type of auto dialogue to play. Is that what you're referring to?
-Polite
#17
Posté 18 octobre 2011 - 09:56
Jaron Oberyn
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BatmanPWNS wrote...
Even though most choices are pretty much useless and contribute to nothing but the wheel has become something like a signature for the series and I don't see it going anywhere.
If it's a signature then I don't see why they keep reducing the amount of options on it.
sp0ck 06 wrote...
Some missions have a lot more choice than others. True, Thane's recruitment is pretty straightfoward, but his loyalty mission has a ton of options. Or Tali's LM. Or Samara's.
I kind of agree with what your saying, but I'll wait till ME3 and see. They really haven't even shown a conversation yet.
I agree with you. As stated above, Miranda's conversations give you only ONE option to respond with, and continue the dialogue. On the other hand, Jacob gives you more options of what to say. I don't know why some give you options, and some don't, but maybe it's areas where they want to establish something particular for Shepard. I'm still holding out to see as well, I simply stated that if the E3 stage demo was anything to go by, it looks to be more of the same auto conversations. I was hoping that with the inclusion of Kinect, they'd add more dialogue options. But I won't hold my breath on that.
-Polite
#18
Posté 18 octobre 2011 - 10:07
DAO - Grey Warden
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[qufosete]PoliteAssasin wrote...
Is it? The reason I ask is because of the diminishment of dialogue options in ME2, and if the Mass 3 demos are any indication, ME3 as well. I just got finished playing Thane's recruitment mission, followed by LoTSB. Both of these heavily featured automatic dialogue, with a few nice/mean responses sprinkled here and there. It's pretty obvious that Bioware's giving the player less freedom with Shepard since they're trying to mold him into a specific iconic character, so why not go all the way? Nice/Mean responses do nothing except change the tone in which you say something. The single option dialogue progression is useless.
Take talking to miranda for example, or LoTSB. Why not just have full auto dialogue instead of only having one dialogue option to choose from? Miranda's dialogue is an excellent example. You only have one option to progress the dialogue, that's it. There's no choice in it at all, not even the nice/mean responses. The only time it branches slightly is if you do the romance. Now Jacob is a good example of player choice. There are many options to choose from with Jacob's dialogue on the ship which contrasts Miranda's conversations significantly.
Looking at the ME3 E3 stage demo, we see the same auto dialogue when Shepard talks to Mordin, and then the Krogan princess. The prologue demo with anderson features it as well, with the vent scene giving the player a nice/mean choice which I doubt will change the outcome of the situation.
Bottom line is, Bioware's apparently starting to make Shepard more of a predefined character in order to establish their canon with the new fan base. My problem is, why not go all the way? Why take control of shepard out of the players hands 90% of the time, and then give us only one option to continue the conversation, or give us the option to act like a nice guy or a jerk? It doesn't affect Shepard's personality at all because when the game takes control again, he goes back to the canon state. Personally I don't like that they're doing this. To me it kills immersion and replayability having to hear the same auto dialogue every playthrough. However I understand their taking of this approach since a lot of the shooter fanbase complained about too much dialogue. I just figured they should go all the way, without giving us the illusion of choice. Honestly at this point, the dialogue wheel just isn't needed.
-Polite
[/quote]
I see you point,but when you are talking about affecting shepard´s personality, i think that shepard had a personality just based on your paragon or regenade actions. Shepard´s personality was always somehow, you could say, neutral, but, what shepard was as a person, that was just based on what kind of a response you chose, whether it was paragon or regenade. For instance, you can alter Hawke´s personality in Dragon Age 2 and if you choose most of the game sarcastic responses, he will turn into a sarcastic person, he wont go to a neutral or like you sad "canon" state like Shepard in Mass Effect. You sad that Bioware was making Shepard a more of a predefined character( he was always predefined, even in Mass Effect 1, it´s up to you to make him paragon or renegade, and also if you transport your save games from ME1 to ME2 it records what kind of a path you chose, , paragon or renegade, shepard was only neutral, "canon" in terms of responses )! No matter what kind of response you choose in Mass Effect 1 or 2, when you loose control of Shepard, he will always be a default character, you can´t make or create his personality, only alter his paragon or renegade path, whatever you wanna callit, like you can for Hawke in Dragon Age 2. But on the whole i agree, that in some cases Mass Effect 2 was more limited in terms of conversation, but only a little, the game was, sorry, IS a masterpiece!!!
Is it? The reason I ask is because of the diminishment of dialogue options in ME2, and if the Mass 3 demos are any indication, ME3 as well. I just got finished playing Thane's recruitment mission, followed by LoTSB. Both of these heavily featured automatic dialogue, with a few nice/mean responses sprinkled here and there. It's pretty obvious that Bioware's giving the player less freedom with Shepard since they're trying to mold him into a specific iconic character, so why not go all the way? Nice/Mean responses do nothing except change the tone in which you say something. The single option dialogue progression is useless.
Take talking to miranda for example, or LoTSB. Why not just have full auto dialogue instead of only having one dialogue option to choose from? Miranda's dialogue is an excellent example. You only have one option to progress the dialogue, that's it. There's no choice in it at all, not even the nice/mean responses. The only time it branches slightly is if you do the romance. Now Jacob is a good example of player choice. There are many options to choose from with Jacob's dialogue on the ship which contrasts Miranda's conversations significantly.
Looking at the ME3 E3 stage demo, we see the same auto dialogue when Shepard talks to Mordin, and then the Krogan princess. The prologue demo with anderson features it as well, with the vent scene giving the player a nice/mean choice which I doubt will change the outcome of the situation.
Bottom line is, Bioware's apparently starting to make Shepard more of a predefined character in order to establish their canon with the new fan base. My problem is, why not go all the way? Why take control of shepard out of the players hands 90% of the time, and then give us only one option to continue the conversation, or give us the option to act like a nice guy or a jerk? It doesn't affect Shepard's personality at all because when the game takes control again, he goes back to the canon state. Personally I don't like that they're doing this. To me it kills immersion and replayability having to hear the same auto dialogue every playthrough. However I understand their taking of this approach since a lot of the shooter fanbase complained about too much dialogue. I just figured they should go all the way, without giving us the illusion of choice. Honestly at this point, the dialogue wheel just isn't needed.
-Polite
[/quote]
I see you point,but when you are talking about affecting shepard´s personality, i think that shepard had a personality just based on your paragon or regenade actions. Shepard´s personality was always somehow, you could say, neutral, but, what shepard was as a person, that was just based on what kind of a response you chose, whether it was paragon or regenade. For instance, you can alter Hawke´s personality in Dragon Age 2 and if you choose most of the game sarcastic responses, he will turn into a sarcastic person, he wont go to a neutral or like you sad "canon" state like Shepard in Mass Effect. You sad that Bioware was making Shepard a more of a predefined character( he was always predefined, even in Mass Effect 1, it´s up to you to make him paragon or renegade, and also if you transport your save games from ME1 to ME2 it records what kind of a path you chose, , paragon or renegade, shepard was only neutral, "canon" in terms of responses )! No matter what kind of response you choose in Mass Effect 1 or 2, when you loose control of Shepard, he will always be a default character, you can´t make or create his personality, only alter his paragon or renegade path, whatever you wanna callit, like you can for Hawke in Dragon Age 2. But on the whole i agree, that in some cases Mass Effect 2 was more limited in terms of conversation, but only a little, the game was, sorry, IS a masterpiece!!!
#19
Posté 18 octobre 2011 - 10:11
SarunasAndSoOn
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[quote]SarunasAndSoOn wrote...
LOTSB is a canon mission, there isnt gonna be a any huge decisions made, and i doubt that they showed all of the options on the demos. at the NYCC demo there was no dialogue wheel at all so if you prefer it do play that[/quote]
PoliteAssassin- A lot of the auto dialogue in LoTSB wasn't decision making though. It was definition of character. Canonical. And how do you explain Miranda's dialogue, or Thane's mission?
-polite
[/quote]
in LOTSB you have choices with the asari spectre (whose name escapes me) when liara is telling you her plan, and the ending where you can invite her up to your cabin, that part especially contains alot of character definition in my opinion.
The majority of the conversations with mirand involve you getting info about shepard, the romance is the part where you decide what type of person you want shepard to be, outside of that character definition doesnt matter.
thanes mission wasnt particulary long and therefore didnt involve many opportunities for character definition, it was more investigating than anything. however i would say that the interrigation is a very good example of paragonVSrenegade.
LOTSB is a canon mission, there isnt gonna be a any huge decisions made, and i doubt that they showed all of the options on the demos. at the NYCC demo there was no dialogue wheel at all so if you prefer it do play that[/quote]
PoliteAssassin- A lot of the auto dialogue in LoTSB wasn't decision making though. It was definition of character. Canonical. And how do you explain Miranda's dialogue, or Thane's mission?
-polite
[/quote]
in LOTSB you have choices with the asari spectre (whose name escapes me) when liara is telling you her plan, and the ending where you can invite her up to your cabin, that part especially contains alot of character definition in my opinion.
The majority of the conversations with mirand involve you getting info about shepard, the romance is the part where you decide what type of person you want shepard to be, outside of that character definition doesnt matter.
thanes mission wasnt particulary long and therefore didnt involve many opportunities for character definition, it was more investigating than anything. however i would say that the interrigation is a very good example of paragonVSrenegade.
Modifié par SarunasAndSoOn, 18 octobre 2011 - 10:19 .
#20
Posté 18 octobre 2011 - 10:11
Reaper Kitten of Doom
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I'm guessing, since it is a fully voiced game, the more options you give the player, the more disc space you need.
If it was up to me, they could cut out half of the running and gunning, and have more dialogue.
If it was up to me, they could cut out half of the running and gunning, and have more dialogue.
#21
Posté 18 octobre 2011 - 10:15
SarunasAndSoOn
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double post.
Modifié par SarunasAndSoOn, 18 octobre 2011 - 10:15 .
#22
Posté 18 octobre 2011 - 10:23
sorentoft
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Puzzles to be honest. You have to solve one to respond.LOLandStuff wrote...
I vote for a dialogue square.
#23
Posté 18 octobre 2011 - 10:32
Eckswhyzee
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Screw the dialogue wheel and let what Shepard says be determined from a combination of your ECG, heartbeat, and fMRI readings.
#24
Posté 18 octobre 2011 - 10:36
JoeLaTurkey
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It's silly. The Priest has spoken.
#25
Posté 18 octobre 2011 - 10:55
Golden Owl
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@ Polite:
I think I know what your referring to Polite...please correct me if I am wrong....I notice you have singled out the two NPC's with the most enforced direction driven dialog, dis-allowing us to play our Sheps as not essentially having something of a hard on for them...Miranda and Liara...ME1 gave the player the choice as to how their Sheps felt about each squaddie, ME2 allows this with some but not others, chiefly Miranda and Liara, I find that very disappointing myself...I am hoping BW will return to the ME1 approach of letting us define our Sheps relationships ourselves...I can see your point, but I am not giving up hope...though 'yes' the 'Genophage' test run release has had me a little concerned as one of my Sheps fully supports the Genophage, will I be able to RP him with that thought in mind in ME3?
I think I know what your referring to Polite...please correct me if I am wrong....I notice you have singled out the two NPC's with the most enforced direction driven dialog, dis-allowing us to play our Sheps as not essentially having something of a hard on for them...Miranda and Liara...ME1 gave the player the choice as to how their Sheps felt about each squaddie, ME2 allows this with some but not others, chiefly Miranda and Liara, I find that very disappointing myself...I am hoping BW will return to the ME1 approach of letting us define our Sheps relationships ourselves...I can see your point, but I am not giving up hope...though 'yes' the 'Genophage' test run release has had me a little concerned as one of my Sheps fully supports the Genophage, will I be able to RP him with that thought in mind in ME3?
Modifié par Golden Owl, 18 octobre 2011 - 10:55 .
