222 réponses à ce sujet

[Robuthad]

If we no haz dial-log wheels den hows do wez haz dial-log?

Seriously, we use the wheel for all the most important choices.
Also in all the demo's we've seen, time is of the essence and Shep has atleast enough common sense not to start investigating Mordins motivations as to why he is attempting to save the female Krogan while they are under fire and Wrex is waiting in orbit!

[Sethan_1]

I think the dialogue wheel is fine.

The printed description of the dialogue choices, on the other hand, often leaves a lot to be desired.

Every time I forget to save before talking to someone and have one of those choices result in completely different dialogue than I intended, and I have to go back to an earlier save to fix it... ugh.

Modifié par Sethan_1, 19 octobre 2011 - 06:04 .

[Senorite]

Yeah, I would like some more dialogue that actually makes the other person your talking to have a diffrent reaction, insteave of the same one unless you use a para or rena response.

[Jaron Oberyn]

To the person above, it has nothing to do with time constraints or cinematic flow. If that were the case, timed dialogue would be introduced. It has everything to do with Shepard being a predefined canon character. Look at garrus for example. Whether you liked garrus or not in me1, he's shepards buddy buddy. However when it came to Tali, you were able to say whether you liked her, or didn't like her to chambers. As someone stated earlier this canon seems to only affect certain characters. My point is, why go half way? If you're intending to make Shepard canon, why not just take out the dialogue and make it all automatic? Judging by the amount of auto dialogue in me2, it seems like the team is itching to do so. Shooters don't exactly have dialogue options, and like it or not the me trilogy's a shooter more than an rpg.

And to the person above who stated that Shepard was always predefined, he wasn't in me1. In me1 we had more freedom over shepards personality and beliefs. Yeah there were occasional instances where all dialogue options led to the same outcome, but that was very few. And the only auto dialogue in the game was the scene where you were landing on illos.
-Polite

[mybudgee]

I simply hope that who ever "your" Shep is, paragon or ball-breaker, the option will be available in ME3 to take that character to the ultimate level. Even if it costs the galaxy a heavy price. Anything less will just be lip service and a dissapointment, esp for those of us who have had a Shep from day one and kept that type of personality consistent. Either way, surely the wheel will return in some form.

[Jaron Oberyn]

Just saw this on twitter. The interview is from savegameonline.com.



SG: Do you think there might be some point in the future where you might actually have to determine a few things about Shepard or are you pretty committed to the whole non-canon storyline?

MW:  As much as possible we try to stay with that.  That's what makes the game so powerful.  It's that people do get to choose and decide what their Shepard is. So I don't see any reason for us to suddenly say "no this is what Shepard is."  Someone just brought up the point of what do you do with the movie?  That's a different beast.  Someone can jump off that bridge when they get to it.  But for the comics I think there are so many stories out there that we could tell that won't interfere with the Shepard story and won't step on the toes of people's choices.  There's no excuse to do it.

Sg is the interviewer, MW is Mac Walters. Very interesting.

-Polite

[DarthSliver]

i dont know about you but the dialogue Wheel seems to paraphrase the stuff wrongly. You choose a response that sounds nice and sometimes it seems Shepard saids something completely different than what the paraphrased choice seemed to be. So Id say the choices paraphrased needs to be done correctly this time, i want it to be close to what i pick not something completely wrong from the choice.

[onelifecrisis]

PoliteAssasin wrote...

Is it?

-Polite

Yes. Because if you give ME players the illusion of choice then they start to think that their Shepard really is their Shepard. Kinda like when you put a chicken's head in a bag it think's it's night time and goes to sleep.

[Jaron Oberyn]

Why do I get the feeling you're being sarcastic?


-Polite

[Robuthad]

You can also hypnotize chickens by drawing a line in front of them!

So you're saying Shep is the proverbial line?

[onelifecrisis]

PoliteAssasin wrote...

Why do I get the feeling you're being sarcastic?


-Polite

Me? I'm just poking a little fun at the players who have been successfully fooled into think they've created their own character. You wanted a more serious response?

Well, I've taken part in some threads on this topic before (I should think you have too) and I noticed that quite a few players were happy just to be able to choose a tone. They don't really care what Shepard says, or what repurcussions it has, as long as they get to choose whether s/he says something nice/neutral/nasty in response to characters or statements that they like/dislike.

[Drone223]

A dialogue octagon perhaps.................................

[Lumikki]

Chris Priestly wrote...

Silly Polite, it is how you choose your dialog. If you did not have it, you could not choose. What a silly idea. Silly Polite is silly.

I have to agree. Basicly OP is just complaining something, what isn't really related question asked. Totally wrong way to talk about issue behind it, what OP is refering. Maybe next time someone makes serius topic with constructive manner.

Modifié par Lumikki, 19 octobre 2011 - 11:43 .

[Mr. Brainheart]

onelifecrisis wrote...

PoliteAssasin wrote...

Why do I get the feeling you're being sarcastic?


-Polite

Me? I'm just poking a little fun at the players who have been successfully fooled into think they've created their own character. You wanted a more serious response?

Well, I've taken part in some threads on this topic before (I should think you have too) and I noticed that quite a few players were happy just to be able to choose a tone. They don't really care what Shepard says, or what repurcussions it has, as long as they get to choose whether s/he says something nice/neutral/nasty in response to characters or statements that they like/dislike.

But I have created my own character around Shepard, multiple even, surely that requires my imagination, but if I didn't have the choice to respond with a certain tone and been able to make certain decisions, all my Shepards would have been probalby been the same person almost solely created by the writers.

[Sgt Stryker]

Let me ask you this though: which is better, auto-dialogue or auto-dialogue that masquerades as player choice? ME2 had the former, while ME1 had the latter.

Anyway, it seems like that Mac Walters quote actually has the opposite meaning of what you want it to mean. He's saying that, for the comics at least, they want to avoid stories that will "canonize" player choices. As far as the movie is concerned, I don't know how that will play out.

Lastly, who said you can't have a shooter with dialogue choices? ME2 did just that. Anyway, to me the whole "RPG vs. shooter" debate is moot, since I have the (apparently rare) capacity to enjoy both games.

Modifié par Sgt Stryker, 19 octobre 2011 - 12:17 .

[Lotion Soronarr]

Why would we need a dialogue wheel when we have

** Image removed as spam per Site Rule # 2 **

Modifié par Selene Moonsong, 19 octobre 2011 - 10:01 .

[CptBomBom00]

I preffer the dialogue wheel. than kinect voice or head phone voice control.

[Varen Spectre]

Hmm, I mostly agree with... your... goal OP.
 
I am not sure, that your style (pointing out where the reduction of dialugue options can eventually lead) is the correct approach, but I wish that Mass Effects (probably ME2 more than ME1) had both more varying dialuge options and more meaningful consequences as well.

To some degree though, I am convinced, that it is a question of ballance between quality and quantity of conversation scenes. LotSB, which OP mentions a lot,  might be a good example. On one hand, it probably had even less dialogue options than most of story missions in ME2, let alone ME1... On the other, the quality of the scenes in LotSB was far superior. Especially in comparison to ME1 - Shepard and Liara do not just stand on the same place, but they walk, gesticulate, look around, use objects around them, their facial animations are great (at least for ME standards), etc. In other words, their behaviour in those scenes is perfect...

Logically, if the developers had wanted to give player more options while maintaining the same quality, they would have had to spend a lot of resources and effort to make all types of scenes look that good. And that was probaly not feasible with the amount of resources allocated for LotSB.

So, I guess, Mass Effect 3 or any other Mass Effect kind of has a tough position... it tries to offer the quality of cutscenes that always approaches the quality in some of the best games in industry in this regard (e.g. Uncharted), while trying to give the player some freedom of choice as if it was more taraditional RPG...

As a result, it can't do neither of those things as well as games that obviously specialize only on one of those things. Still, I am convinced that it does a great job and neither aspect suffers too much at the expense of the other.

So to sum up, I wish that Mass Effect 3 had more choices during the conversations, but given how the quality of scenes in LotSB, was supposed to indicator of quality of majority scenes in ME3, I would not be surprised if the number of conversation options in LotSB was such indicator as well... For now though, I hope that ME team finds a way how to push the boundaries in both quality and quantity at the same time.

That, or OP really wants to remove dialogues and I misunderstood his post and point royally. 

Modifié par Varen Spectre, 19 octobre 2011 - 12:36 .

[sevach]

I would like the dialog wheel to be expanded, with more response options and branching conversations.

Right now the wheel is not only predictable (pick up to be nice, down to be mean, blue/red to solve all your problems), but a bit meaningless, as the op pointed out most conversations is all about saying nice/mean things at the end with no real options.

Something like Alpha Protocol dialog shows how it should be done imo.

[Aldyramon]

I think the problem is the other way around: they should just offer more meaningful choices with real consequence in the game...

[Icinix]

Its a valid point.

ME2 felt like it had less control over dialogue and more cutscenes with the occasional dialogue choice.

ME3 hasn't shown a lot of dialogue choice, but I'm hoping thats because of all the people who cry foul about spoilers.

[MrFob]

I think you make the problem sound more serious than it is, Polite.

1. Even if there are less choices in ME2, there are still a lot and for all of these we need some interface to choose. Why not the wheel?
2. The ME3 demo was obviously a very streamlined portion of the game that aimed at showing of mainly combat and some flashy cutscenes. Not enough time to go into intense dialogue on an event like E3.
3. Every Computer game and BW games in particualtr have always limited player choice for the benefit of the story. I personally am ok with that and I think the balance they have for ME is not bad at all in terms of Sheps dialogue (I would like to see more diverse consequences on some decisions though)
4. ME1 was not better as ME2 in that regard. Especially in the side quests, most often I'd say it was worse. At least, if you only have 2 options in ME2, you only have two options on the wheel. In ME1, often (as I said, mostly during side quests), you had three options on the wheel but all of them would have the same VO line. In that case, I rather prefer the "honesty" of ME2s restricted options.

Bottom line: dialogue wheel is fine IMO but more consequences for the actions we actually get to make would be appreciated.

[Dreadwing 67]

I'm actually glad they automated some responses in ME2. It seemed redundant in ME1 when all 3 options were the same. The only automated dialogue I remember in ME1 was on Eden Prime when Shepard contacts Joker and dumba** Kaidan or Dumba** Ashley walks toward the unknown towering monolith with an evil green glow that seems to spell do not touch:mellow:.

As for Canon Shepard....I laugh, that is all, no further explaination.

Ok ACTIONS speak louder than WORDS. YOUR RENEGADE ACTIONS can't be covered up with WORDS.

Modifié par Dreadwing 67, 19 octobre 2011 - 02:17 .

[Jaron Oberyn]

Lumikki wrote...

Chris Priestly wrote...

Silly Polite, it is how you choose your dialog. If you did not have it, you could not choose. What a silly idea. Silly Polite is silly.

I have to agree. Basicly OP is just complaining something, what isn't really related question asked. Totally wrong way to talk about issue behind it, what OP is refering. Maybe next time someone makes serius topic with constructive manner.

You're going to lecture me on making a topic in a "constructive manner" when you can't even make a statement in a constructive manner? Oh the irony.


-Polite