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Is the dialogue wheel needed anymore?


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#126
KainrycKarr

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Xeranx wrote...

I don't know much about game development. I will learn. I already acquiesced to the fully playable statement so I don't know why you, jeff, and jreezy are piling on. *shrug* Whatever.

You know, I'm looking at my post and wondering what exactly had you reply to me. You put a piece of my statement in bold and seemed to ignore what came before it. Why that happened I don't know, but this back and forth was really a waste of time and shouldn't have happened to begin with. And I asked myself about before, but responded anyway. Again, all I can do is shrug my shoulders.


Well, I'm a big meanie doo-doo face, that's why I'm piling it on.

As to the reply...you said something that was false, and I corrected it, that's why I bolded it. There was no need to continue after that, so you're right, I don't know why we're going back and forth.

#127
Xeranx

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"And ME3 was supposedly planned to ship either next month or the month after before they pushed the date back. So that's just a little more than a year."

Please read that again. Nothing I said there was wrong, technically. I wanted to say "So that's just a little more than a year and a half", but felt that sentence was clunky at the time.

If ME3 was released in November or December that's a little over a year. ME2 released last year in January 2010 as you pointed out. We're still in 2011. It's not two years yet.

#128
didymos1120

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PoliteAssasin wrote...
And how do you explain Miranda's dialogue, or Thane's mission?

-Polite


How do I explain Thane's mission?  Which one?  Assuming his loyalty mission was meant, there's plenty of dialogue choice there, provided you're not cherry-picking stuff to grind your "automatic dialogue" axe.   In fact, I just went through that one checking for unused audio.  Let's look, shall we:

1.  You choose how you respond to Thane bringing it up.
2.  You choose responses to Bailey's info about Mouse. And to Thane's question after that.
3.  You have multiple ways of getting info from Mouse, and if you even decide to bring it up, multiple ways of resolving the Shepard VI issue. Again, you choose how you react to what Thane says after that.
4.  You then choose how you respond to Bailey and Kelham's relationship.  Then you choose how Thane will act during the interrogation (and this matters: you only get certain dialogue based on Thane's assigned role, or lack thereof).
5.  The interrogation itself.  This is probably the most complicated conversation in the entire game.  It took forever to verify all that dialogue because the reactions you get from Kelham and Thane are very dependent on not only what you told Thane to do, but also what you have Shep say or do, and sometimes even the order in which you do things (e.g. take the first interrupt, but not the second, then take the third, etc.) 
6. You choose how to react to Bailey's griping about Talid and politics after.
7. You choose how you handle the confrontation with Kolyat, up to and including killing Talid yourself.  Then you choose how you react to both Thane and Bailey after that.
8. You choose Kolyat's fate by choosing whether or not to persuade Bailey to handle it off the books.
9. Lastly, you choose how you respond to Thane afterwards on the Normandy.

If it's his recruitment, there are still choices to make: how you deal with Seryna at her desk and in the skycar, how you handle the dying salarian, how you treat the other trapped workers (provided you even bother, which is a choice in itself), how you handle the Window Merc situation, whether you lecture Nassana or taunt her, whether you're kind of jerk to Thane or all business or disapproving after Nassana is dead.  It's a short mission, yes, but so what?  You still have control over the vast majority of Shepard's dialogue there (the two exceptions being if you click the comm terminal and one Shep line when the elevator full of mercs is coming down).  If your standard is "dialogue must have vast repercussions or it doesn't count" then neither ME1 or ME2 can pass that test.

Also, I can make similar lists for every mission in the game, and all the hub interactions.  The N7 and Firewalker assignments are the only real exceptions, and that's because there's pretty much no dialogue on them, period.  Oh, and Shep's combat soundset, but I assume that sort of "automatic dialogue" is acceptable to you.

Modifié par didymos1120, 20 octobre 2011 - 01:17 .


#129
CroGamer002

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^Pretty much that.

#130
Il Divo

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KainrycKarr wrote...

Why would I feel betrayed? ME2 satisfied me completely, dialogue and choice-wise. 

If Shepard "is who he/she is", then how can we dictate whether they are gay or straight?

You contradict yourself in your own post.


This. If Shepard is 100% pre-defined, I would not have choices. It would be Halo, where every cut-scene always involves Shepard performing actions separate from me. That does happen in both ME1/ME2, but nowhere near to the degree where we can say Shepard is pre-defined, given the extent of choice + dialogue options.

Modifié par Il Divo, 20 octobre 2011 - 01:43 .


#131
CaptainZaysh

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Mesina2 wrote...

^Pretty much that.


Yeah.  Pwned.

#132
Arkitekt

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CaptainZaysh wrote...

Mesina2 wrote...

^Pretty much that.


Yeah.  Pwned.


/Thread

#133
Labrev

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I think the failing is inconsistency. Tali's LM is a perfect example: no matter what option you take, you still pretty much console her loss whether or not you want to. I mean yeah, you'd have to be a pretty broken individual if you want to be a jerk to someone who just found that her dad had died, but it's a game and maybe we want to play that kind of a character. I have a designated Troll-Shep myself.

Also, I feel like lots of decisions and dialogue to be made can warrant up to 4-5 different types of responses. However, because of their flawed morality-system they had in place, they pigeonholed just about everything into 2 or 3 options of paragon, renegade, and neutral/mix-of-both. And then again, it's not always consistent to how they always act.

What I really liked was the end of Mordin's LM. For once, they actually use the other half of the wheel and not just for nonsense "persuasion" options. There are 4 options for two things: keeping the genophage data and supporting a cure, or keeping it "just in case" (as I wanted to). Then you could tell him to destroy it based on what he told you about his research, or destroy it based on your own non-support of a cure.

In ME1, Shepard could be kind of racist. In ME2, there's about no trace of that. My question is, why not? I'm sure they didn't want to designate the renegade side to being the racist one, not all players that want to play renegade would want to be racist. But, that's why they should not have been so narrow in their focus. Lots of people feel like the game makes their Shepard act out-of-character no matter which three options they choose.

#134
Jaron Oberyn

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"In Mass Effect it's more a third-person narrative, where you have a pre-defined character who is who he is, or she is," Muzyka told IGN when asked why Dragon Age: Origins allowed for gay relationships while Mass Effect didn't.

"But it's not a wide-open choice matrix. It's more choice on a tactical level with a pre-defined character. So they're different types of narratives, and that's intentional."

The Mass Effect games are about "[Commander] Shepard as a defined character with certain approaches and worldviews", Muzyka continued.

"So we constrain the choice set somewhat, but enable more tactical choices and enable a deeper, richer personality, because it's more focused around defining one character, it's not as wide open. But that's by choice."

Dragon Age, for its part, "is a first-person narrative" where "you are that character at a fundamental level", and that's the reason there's more scope for different relationships.


Source: http://www.eurogamer...exual-by-choice


Have a nice day ladies and gentlemen. :)


-Polite

#135
Killjoy Cutter

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DA:O was first-person.

DA2 really pushes into more of that "iconic marketing character" and third-person territory of the ME franchise.

#136
CroGamer002

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Bogsnot1 wrote...

Yes, lets return to the ME1 style of dialogue options.

Paragon: It's clear you have already made up your minds.
Neutral: It's clear you have already made up your minds.
Renegade: It's clear you have already made up your minds.
<_< 



#137
Someone With Mass

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Mesina2 wrote...

Bogsnot1 wrote...

Yes, lets return to the ME1 style of dialogue options.

Paragon: It's clear you have already made up your minds.
Neutral: It's clear you have already made up your minds.
Renegade: It's clear you have already made up your minds.
<_< 

Oh, ME1. You're so silly.

Image IPB

#138
Bcuz

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JoeLaTurkey wrote...

It's silly. The Priest has spoken.

All hail the magic conch!

#139
javierabegazo

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PoliteAssasin wrote...

"In Mass Effect it's more a third-person narrative, where you have a pre-defined character who is who he is, or she is," Muzyka told IGN when asked why Dragon Age: Origins allowed for gay relationships while Mass Effect didn't.

"But it's not a wide-open choice matrix. It's more choice on a tactical level with a pre-defined character. So they're different types of narratives, and that's intentional."

The Mass Effect games are about "[Commander] Shepard as a defined character with certain approaches and worldviews", Muzyka continued.

"So we constrain the choice set somewhat, but enable more tactical choices and enable a deeper, richer personality, because it's more focused around defining one character, it's not as wide open. But that's by choice."

Dragon Age, for its part, "is a first-person narrative" where "you are that character at a fundamental level", and that's the reason there's more scope for different relationships.


Source: http://www.eurogamer...exual-by-choice


Have a nice day ladies and gentlemen. :)


-Polite


I don't know how you get off being so passive-aggressive. And in any case, this is inapplicabble now, because in ME3, there are homosexual LI options, so even the most rudimentry unskilled role player can role play that his Shepard, (yes, I said HIS shepard) was in the closet about his sexuality.

#140
Gabey5

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^^or was too focused on the mission to get jiggy with it

#141
james1976

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The dialogue wheel should stay.

#142
Pattonesque

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PoliteAssasin wrote...
Looking at the ME3 E3 stage demo


PoliteAssasin wrote...
the ME3 E3 stage demo


PoliteAssasin wrote...
the ME3 demo


PoliteAssasin wrote...
the demo


PoliteAssasin wrote...
demo



PoliteAssasin wrote..
DEMO


Modifié par Pattonesque, 21 octobre 2011 - 02:50 .


#143
JamieCOTC

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Yes, we need the dialog wheel. In fact, we need more dialog wheel like we need more cowbell. The more the better.

#144
xSTONEYx187x

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Why would someone ask this question?

(>__<)

Modifié par xSTONEYx187x, 21 octobre 2011 - 04:39 .


#145
Genshie

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I don't know why people would want to take out the feature that basically makes Mass Effect Mass Effect. It is like people wanting to take the cars out of Twisted Metal and make it a third person shooter without the cars/vehicles. Here is another one: Taking out the Tardis from Doctor Who or just taking out the Doctor. You don't take out a defining feature from a franchise.

#146
The Spamming Troll

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Genshie wrote...

I don't know why people would want to take out the feature that basically makes Mass Effect Mass Effect. It is like people wanting to take the cars out of Twisted Metal and make it a third person shooter without the cars/vehicles. Here is another one: Taking out the Tardis from Doctor Who or just taking out the Doctor. You don't take out a defining feature from a franchise.


ME2 didnt seem entirely different then ME1?

#147
lazuli

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xSTONEYx187x wrote...

Why would someone ask this question?

(>__<)


It's one of his axes, which he must occasionally grind.  Bringing up how ME1 offered the illusion of choice with different seeming dialogue options all leading to the same outcome is futile.

#148
voteDC

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The only problem I had with the dialogue in Mass Effect 2 was that I heard far too many variations of "I'm busy. Come back later Shepard."

#149
Ghost-621

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Reaper Kitten of Doom wrote...

I'm guessing, since it is a fully voiced game, the more options you give the player, the more disc space you need.
If it was up to me, they could cut out half of the running and gunning, and have more dialogue.


This is what they should have been doing. ME1 had the combat/dialogue ratio down. ME2 and ME3 are more about the combat GOW linear corridor shooting awesome button gameplay than the actual dialogue and story.

#150
KainrycKarr

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Anyone notice that polite just keeps posting the same outdated, inaccurate interview and calls it a day?