10 réponses à ce sujet

[jamesp81]

She claims to believe in the Qun, but the more I think about it, the more I find that difficult to credit.

Does she really not know what Qunari rule would mean for her, personally?  Remember Sten in Origins carrying on about women and their proper place in society?  The Qunari don't have families, and they use their women as, essentially, breeding stock.

The only life Tallis could hope for under Qunari rule is to be used as a breeder to bear many children, all of which would be taken from her immediately after birth.  She can forget serving as a soldier, as the qunari don't allow that.  In general, husbands and wives in Thedas would be separated by force, the women used as breeders or workers, which strikes me as monstrously evil.  Tallis just doesn't seem to be into the whole monstrous evil thing.

My mistake, I was wrong.  Well, not about the monstrous evil part, anyway.  Still, there are some elements of the Qun that are incredibly bad.  It would destroy families to serve its vision, to be certain.  That whole arranged mating thing guarantees, and is pretty bad.  I still question if she really knows, in full, what she's supporting.

There are only two realistic in-game possibilities I can see.  The most likely is that the Ben-Hassarath don't tell the truth about life under the Qun.  This would allow them to gain eyes and ears in mainland Thedas they couldn't otherwise get.

The other possibility is that the Ben-Hassarath has become subversive to the qunari.  If that's the case, it would also mean that the qun isn't as monolithic as that arishok bastard would have the player character think.

In any case, as best as I can tell, Tallis is either an enormous fool, or the Ben-Hassarath aren't falling completely into line anymore.

Modifié par jamesp81, 19 octobre 2011 - 03:51 .

[Wulfram]

The Qunari women aren't breeding stock any more than the men. The priests and the administrators are all women - except for some of the Ben-Hassrath, that is. The Talmassrans who choose who breeds with who are women.

[Forst1999]

Sten said qunari women can't be soldiers but that doesn't make them "breeders". Mr. Gaider pointed out that soldiers and spies are two different things. And there are other roles women can fill as well. I can't understand how anyone can support the qun, but it is not quite as grim as you picture it.

[jamesp81]

My mistake then.  OP edited.

Modifié par jamesp81, 19 octobre 2011 - 03:50 .

[Forst1999]

I can't imagine that she doesn't know what she supports. You can't build a society on a strict set of rules without informing your people about them. She knows perfectly well. But just because you and me can't imagine why anyone would join the qun, doesn't mean that she is an "enormous fool". Remember that elves have it badly in Thedas, especially in Tevinter. For some elves, embracing the qun might actually be an improvement. I don't support her views, but it is understandable to some degree.

[jamesp81]

I have to wonder whether she would still believe it when wives in conquered lands are forced into arranged matings for the improvement of the Qun. While that won't be all they do, it will be forced on them. Would she really accept this as justified? And this is only one of hundreds of kinds of criminality the qunari would commit.

She just didn't come away as being that callous to me, but maybe she is. If so, she's good at hiding it.

Better sharpen my murder-knife just in case.

[Fauxnormal]

Yes, she will. And so will everyone else that follows the Qun. To her and the others, the negative aspects are negated by the positive ones.

Every single group religion/ideal set/whatever has bad and good qualities to it, even in real life. Unless you, personally, find reason to accept that as part of your life, you will likely never see what anyone sees in it/gets from it/why they would follow it.

I, personally, think the idea behind the Qun is a good one. They way they go about it is what I take issue with.

[Urzon]

Just because the people in the Qunari don't get any family bonds, doesn't mean they can't form bonds elsewhere. I have many friends in life that i treat as family, if not more so. You can pick your friends, you can't pick your family.

Modifié par Urzon, 19 octobre 2011 - 07:15 .

[Gervaise]

I wonder just how much Tallis does know of the Qun in their homeland. If she was recruited in Tevinter, she may have been given an edited version of what it entails. Not knowing her background, it may be that she didn't have a happy family life so does not know what she would be missing. That said, she does seem conflicted but it was not clear whether it is the Qun philosophy she is beginning to doubt or her own conviction bearing in mind the person who originally taught her has now defected.

When Seamus first started being interested in the Qun, he did so because of a personal encounter he had. Individual Qun may seem reasonable and make good arguements for their way of life. So ironically you end up being converted by the charisma of the individual as much as the creed the claim to follow. If that person suddenly turns against everything they originally taught you to believe, it will naturally have a profound impact on your certainty. Unfortunately we were never told why Salit took the course he did or even if he was really a defector (he could have been a double agent feeding false information).

So far as other elves are concerned, the alienage elves in Ferelden place great store by family. I don't think the majority of them would consider a regime change if it meant losing that, no matter what the other inducements were. The elves in Orlais have it bad so the temptation there might be greater. Elves in Tevinter sometimes sell family members into slavery in order to improve the life for those who are left, so may be family ties are not so important there as improving one's situation. My biggest propaganda tool if I was going to spread counter information to the alienage elves, would be to take Fenris. He was a former slave who could easily have gone to the Qun to escape from Denarius but chose not to, because he knew what life would be like - just another form of slavery.

[blothulfur]

It is to be remembered that newly converted nations and peoples are not expected to be as knowledgeable or obedient to the letter of the Qun as the Qunari who have long walked the path to enlightenment, they are treated somewhat like indulged children who are expected to make mistakes as they take their first faltering steps along the path.

As for the fostering of the tamassran, this is an integral part of rearing Qunari fit to serve the Qun. Families bring bias and belief into the rearing of their children that would skew the tests, evaluation and training of young minds so that they are no longer fit to take up the tasks that are decided for them. Families and emotional attachment unbalance logic and are a weakness that must be purged from the body, mind and soul of those new to the Qun.

[Spartansfan8888]

I was confused as to how Tallis' job involved fighting at first too. It is correct to assume then that the Ben-Hassareth role requires skill to fulfill much like a police officer needs fighting prowess to enforce the law? Tallis also seems a lot more light hearted than most of the other qunari we met so far- is this because she was not born into the Qun or because those in a soldier role are required to be more serious and stern?