68 réponses à ce sujet

[Lazy Jer]

Well I wouldn't necessarily term the Qunari as a "lifestyle choice" either. You stop being vegetarian without other vegetarians wanting to kill you...well...not most of them anyway. The Qunari is closer to a religion then not.

From Websters definition 4. ": a cause, principle, or system of beliefs held to with ardor and faith"

[labargegrrrl]

in all seriousness, the ONLY reason i would never convert to the qun is mages. everything else about the qunari seems pretty awesome. but, yeah, kinda don't want to walk around with a leash and collar system going on. not a fan of having my lips sewn shut either.

[EmperorSahlertz]

you aren't a mage though... 

Modifié par EmperorSahlertz, 29 octobre 2011 - 02:08 .

[Gervaise]

The problem with the Qunari philosophy is that it makes no allowance for unlikely heroes, which are the staple of fantasy stories and some real life ones too.
For example, take Sam Gamgee. He is just a gardener but he takes on a quest to escort Frodo to Mount Doom and is an integral part of ensuring his success. Under the Qun he would never leave his garden.
Again, take the story of David and Goliath. David is just a shepherd boy, his brothers are the soldiers. However, the shepherd comes up with a novel way of fighting the giant, probably based on his experiences defending his sheep. After this the king invites him to join his entourage, he marries the kings daughter, is best mates with the kings son and although the king eventually tries to kill him out of jealousy, he escapes, becomes a renegade military leader and eventually avenges the death of the king and his best mate and becomes king himself. None of this could happen under the Qunari system because the shepherd boy wouldn't know he had brothers in the army, so his father wouldn't have sent him to take them supplies, so he would never have got the opportunity to offer to help defeat the giant, etc.
Both Hawke and the Warden are multi-talented individuals, they are adaptable, they can respond to a situation as it demands, they are asked to make decisions that affect outcomes (even if in the case of Hawke the writers restrict this to small details rather than the bigger picture), they do have an affect on their own destiny. You can play them as altruistic idealists, happy go lucky opportunists or selfish bastards.

Whatever you think about the Qun they are not going to generate this sort of hero because they are just not going to be a good qunari.

[Wereparrot]

Thedas. Siding with the qunari in the event of a war is treason. And if a mage/chantry conflict is involved, I would try to seek a compromise, because I like both.

[Plaintiff]

GodWood wrote...

TheCreeper wrote...
Qun is Religion.

How is it a religion?

From Wiki:

Religion is a collection of cultural systems, belief systems, and worldviews that establishes symbols that relate humanity to spirituality and, sometimes, to moral values.

Nothing in there about needing a diety or other figure of worship. Buddhism is a religion and it doesn't have any dieties either.

[KJandrew]

Gervaise wrote...

The problem with the Qunari philosophy is that it makes no allowance for unlikely heroes, which are the staple of fantasy stories and some real life ones too.
For example, take Sam Gamgee. He is just a gardener but he takes on a quest to escort Frodo to Mount Doom and is an integral part of ensuring his success. Under the Qun he would never leave his garden.
Again, take the story of David and Goliath. David is just a shepherd boy, his brothers are the soldiers. However, the shepherd comes up with a novel way of fighting the giant, probably based on his experiences defending his sheep. After this the king invites him to join his entourage, he marries the kings daughter, is best mates with the kings son and although the king eventually tries to kill him out of jealousy, he escapes, becomes a renegade military leader and eventually avenges the death of the king and his best mate and becomes king himself. None of this could happen under the Qunari system because the shepherd boy wouldn't know he had brothers in the army, so his father wouldn't have sent him to take them supplies, so he would never have got the opportunity to offer to help defeat the giant, etc.

In the Qun there wouldn't be a need for unlikely heroes. Samwise may not be a gardener, if he showed any of the skill he does on the quest in training then in all likelyness he would be a soldier same with David.

EDIT: On a completely unrelated note: I feel sorry in Goliath in that story. He's just a soldier, not some evil tryant guy. He puts his name forwards expecting to fight a Caananite Champion and instead he get a child with a sling. And then what are his choices? Kill a child or get killed, not the best situation to be in.

Modifié par KJandrew, 29 octobre 2011 - 05:30 .

[Sharn01]

KJandrew wrote...

Gervaise wrote...

The problem with the Qunari philosophy is that it makes no allowance for unlikely heroes, which are the staple of fantasy stories and some real life ones too.
For example, take Sam Gamgee. He is just a gardener but he takes on a quest to escort Frodo to Mount Doom and is an integral part of ensuring his success. Under the Qun he would never leave his garden.
Again, take the story of David and Goliath. David is just a shepherd boy, his brothers are the soldiers. However, the shepherd comes up with a novel way of fighting the giant, probably based on his experiences defending his sheep. After this the king invites him to join his entourage, he marries the kings daughter, is best mates with the kings son and although the king eventually tries to kill him out of jealousy, he escapes, becomes a renegade military leader and eventually avenges the death of the king and his best mate and becomes king himself. None of this could happen under the Qunari system because the shepherd boy wouldn't know he had brothers in the army, so his father wouldn't have sent him to take them supplies, so he would never have got the opportunity to offer to help defeat the giant, etc.

In the Qun there wouldn't be a need for unlikely heroes. Samwise may not be a gardener, if he showed any of the skill he does on the quest in training then in all likelyness he would be a soldier same with David.

EDIT: On a completely unrelated note: I feel sorry in Goliath in that story. He's just a soldier, not some evil tryant guy. He puts his name forwards expecting to fight a Caananite Champion and instead he get a child with a sling. And then what are his choices? Kill a child or get killed, not the best situation to be in.

Because a test administered over a couple of days to a 12 year old is a good way of judging what they will be able to achieve over the course of their entire life.

[KJandrew]

Sharn01 wrote...

KJandrew wrote...

Gervaise wrote...

The problem with the Qunari philosophy is that it makes no allowance for unlikely heroes, which are the staple of fantasy stories and some real life ones too.
For example, take Sam Gamgee. He is just a gardener but he takes on a quest to escort Frodo to Mount Doom and is an integral part of ensuring his success. Under the Qun he would never leave his garden.
Again, take the story of David and Goliath. David is just a shepherd boy, his brothers are the soldiers. However, the shepherd comes up with a novel way of fighting the giant, probably based on his experiences defending his sheep. After this the king invites him to join his entourage, he marries the kings daughter, is best mates with the kings son and although the king eventually tries to kill him out of jealousy, he escapes, becomes a renegade military leader and eventually avenges the death of the king and his best mate and becomes king himself. None of this could happen under the Qunari system because the shepherd boy wouldn't know he had brothers in the army, so his father wouldn't have sent him to take them supplies, so he would never have got the opportunity to offer to help defeat the giant, etc.

In the Qun there wouldn't be a need for unlikely heroes. Samwise may not be a gardener, if he showed any of the skill he does on the quest in training then in all likelyness he would be a soldier same with David.

EDIT: On a completely unrelated note: I feel sorry in Goliath in that story. He's just a soldier, not some evil tryant guy. He puts his name forwards expecting to fight a Caananite Champion and instead he get a child with a sling. And then what are his choices? Kill a child or get killed, not the best situation to be in.

Because a test administered over a couple of days to a 12 year old is a good way of judging what they will be able to achieve over the course of their entire life.

Well judging  by the fact it took the combined strength of every nation in Thedas to push them back it seems to be working rather well

[labargegrrrl]

EmperorSahlertz wrote...

you aren't a mage though... 

gee, what was your first clue?  

[Sharn01]

KJandrew wrote...

Sharn01 wrote...

KJandrew wrote...

Gervaise wrote...

The problem with the Qunari philosophy is that it makes no allowance for unlikely heroes, which are the staple of fantasy stories and some real life ones too.
For example, take Sam Gamgee. He is just a gardener but he takes on a quest to escort Frodo to Mount Doom and is an integral part of ensuring his success. Under the Qun he would never leave his garden.
Again, take the story of David and Goliath. David is just a shepherd boy, his brothers are the soldiers. However, the shepherd comes up with a novel way of fighting the giant, probably based on his experiences defending his sheep. After this the king invites him to join his entourage, he marries the kings daughter, is best mates with the kings son and although the king eventually tries to kill him out of jealousy, he escapes, becomes a renegade military leader and eventually avenges the death of the king and his best mate and becomes king himself. None of this could happen under the Qunari system because the shepherd boy wouldn't know he had brothers in the army, so his father wouldn't have sent him to take them supplies, so he would never have got the opportunity to offer to help defeat the giant, etc.

In the Qun there wouldn't be a need for unlikely heroes. Samwise may not be a gardener, if he showed any of the skill he does on the quest in training then in all likelyness he would be a soldier same with David.

EDIT: On a completely unrelated note: I feel sorry in Goliath in that story. He's just a soldier, not some evil tryant guy. He puts his name forwards expecting to fight a Caananite Champion and instead he get a child with a sling. And then what are his choices? Kill a child or get killed, not the best situation to be in.

Because a test administered over a couple of days to a 12 year old is a good way of judging what they will be able to achieve over the course of their entire life.

Well judging  by the fact it took the combined strength of every nation in Thedas to push them back it seems to be working rather well

Its a system that has failed repeatedly in the real world given the test of time, they would need to do a lot more writing then they probably want to to give us a real look at qunari society, for all we know it is failing at home.  The Soviet Union was a poweful military threat to the rest of the world and seemed strong and stable for a long time because no one knew what was really going on there.

It also took the combined strength of every nation in Thedas to push back the Dalish elves when they went to war with Orlais, the only difference is they didnt have their base of operation out of easy reach from the armies, but I dont see much support for them on the forums.

[EmperorSahlertz]

You don't see support for the Dalish? Then you really aren't looking too hard...People are certainly quick to ascribe every evil commited in the war to Orlais, and only Orlais, and the Dalish as the poor victims of the war.

[jamesp81]

GodWood wrote...

SavesTheDay wrote...

GodWood wrote...

Cutlass Jack wrote...
I'm confused. We're choosing between a continent and a religion?

Not a religion.

Yes, it is.

No, no it's not.

The qun doesn't believe in or worship any divine, omnipresent being or force.

Neither do Buddhists.  One need not venerate a god or gods to be considered a religion.

[jamesp81]

EmperorSahlertz wrote...

You don't see support for the Dalish? Then you really aren't looking too hard...People are certainly quick to ascribe every evil commited in the war to Orlais, and only Orlais, and the Dalish as the poor victims of the war.

But the Orlesians....they're so smelly.  You KNOW that smelly people are always itching to start a war.

I am just waiting for a DLC or a scene in DA3 where the PC has an Orlesian taunt him for a second time:D

[The dead fish]

jamesp81 wrote...

GodWood wrote...

SavesTheDay wrote...

GodWood wrote...

Cutlass Jack wrote...
I'm confused. We're choosing between a continent and a religion?

Not a religion.

Yes, it is.

No, no it's not.

The qun doesn't believe in or worship any divine, omnipresent being or force.

Neither do Buddhists.  One need not venerate a god or gods to be considered a religion.

It is a religion. Yes, a thousand time yes.

It has been already explained many times why it entered in this category, with the same assessment as the authors besides.

They called the qun a religion in DA2, Tallis herself speaks of it as a religion, talk about religion.  ( She is a believer. )

Tallis, a Qunari, was wrong ?

Modifié par Sylvianus, 01 novembre 2011 - 07:29 .

[Bayz]

Wereparrot wrote...

Thedas. Siding with the qunari in the event of a war is treason. And if a mage/chantry conflict is involved, I would try to seek a compromise, because I like both.

Depends. It is not if you are from Rivain, no?

[Vlad_Dracul]

Thedas? There are obviously three sides, at least: Mages (and Tevinter Imperium, obvious natural ally for renegade Circles), Templars (and Orlesian Empire) and Qunari.

And Qun is pure evil, you must obey or die. All of them are like Ser Alrik or Petrice. "Qun demands..." isnt different from "From the will of the Maker". So Qun is just like a Chantry, but only with fanatic heartless people.

Although, Chantry have good chance to change, but Qunari is a cruel and cold tyranny no matter the cost. Even dwarven tradicionalists are less prude about their caste system, because warrior has always chance to be with girl from worker caste or man from smith caste can prove himself in arena, if he want to prove that he is more warrior. Theyre disguisted from casteless but they never want exterminate them just because they are, but for Qun, everyone who is beyond the Qun, is blind garbage for Qunari. Obey or die.

[Bayz]

Me do not thinks Tevinter will ally with the circle mages. Me do not thinks it will ally with the Chantry Seekers either though...