28 réponses à ce sujet

[dearlyblvd]

Does strength affect the damage of long distance weapons, like bows and slings? If so, do you buffer your mages and your rogues with the Strength spell?
Why the sword and shield style is considered "useless" and it's recommended to either dual wield or use two handed weapons with some characters, like Jaheira?

Please, try to keep your answers "low-spoilerish". I don't mind if you name a weapon that is good for a certain character, but please don't mention things like the location where you can find it or the stats of the weapon (For example: I'm aware that there is a spear called The Impaler and it's something like +5). Thanks for the attention.

Modifié par dearlyblvd, 20 octobre 2011 - 01:39 .

[PicklePepperPiper]

DEX is the stat modifier for ranged weapons, I think.

Sword and shield is fine in the earlier stages of the game, but towards the end a low AC is pretty much irrelevant and you want to be dishing out damage more so than hoping your enemy won't hit you.

-PPP

Modifié par PicklePepperPiper, 20 octobre 2011 - 03:12 .

[devSin]

Strength in general does not affect ranged damage (no stat does). There are a few sorts of missiles that provide a (erroneous?) STR bonus to damage, but most don't.

You can justify picking anything you want. In general, the benefits of a shield may not match those of using more or more substantial melee weapons. But a lot of these "recommendations" come about because of specific weapons that are in the game (Sword and Shield is "useless", assuming you plan to equip her with swords X and Y or spear A or staff . Just do what you feel is best; you should have little trouble enjoying the game just as well as whatever somebody else is recommending you do.

Modifié par devSin, 20 octobre 2011 - 03:45 .

[AnonymousHero]

As PPP said Sword & Shield is "useless" because AC becomes increasingly irrelevant towards the end of the game. Even if you want to equip a shield, S&S style doesn't matter.

Also, shields tend towards the "boring" end of the spectrum equipment-wise. They hardly ever provide worthwhile non-AC bonuses when compared to weapons you could be wielding in the off hand.

EDIT: Regarding STR bonus: It differs, I believe only thrown axes/hammers carry the STR bonus. AFAIK, there is exactly one sling which carries the STR bonus -- IIRC it specifically states this in its description, but I could be wrong about that.

Modifié par AnonymousHero, 20 octobre 2011 - 04:09 .

[Grond0]

There's also a bow which provides strength bonus - unlike the sling this is not referred to in the item description.

[Humanoid_Taifun]

Yes, without mods there is a number of ranged weapons that have the strength bonus als a surprise bonus.

Even if a shield is worth using in the early stages of the game, it is not worth putting any points into Sword and Shield. The only thing this improves is your AC vs missiles, and most missiles are completely uninteresting.

[dearlyblvd]

Thanks for the answers, they were really helpful.

[dearlyblvd]

As far as I know, in SoA the gems have no use besides selling them for gold, but in ToB I can use them to craft some good items. I don't know if all the gems that I need can be found in the expansion or if I need to save some in SoA. Can someone clarify this for me?

I also tried to look for a list of good gems to keep and found this one: Rogue Stone, King's Tear, Beljuril, Emerald, Diamond, Ruby and Star Sapphires. Can anyone confirm if this list is accurate and how many I should save for each type? Please only mention the name of the gems and the numbers necessary to save.

Thanks for the attention.

Modifié par dearlyblvd, 24 octobre 2011 - 12:39 .

[Ishad Nha]

Readme for ToB mentions:
• Star sapphires, rogue stones,
• diamonds, rubies, emeralds,
• sapphires, king’s tears, nymph’s tear.
I think the last is unique. You need 5 of the first? Keep a few of the rest handy.
In Infinity Explorer, check the files Botsmith.bcs and Botsmith.dlg.

[morbidest2]

I think you could also find use for 5 black opals. Except for them and the sapphires, 2 each of the others should be more than enough for most parties. And if you like to maximize your cash to buy as many scrolls as possible for the endgame, remember to sell off all the unused jewels before you do the 5th circle.

[Carinna]

You do need 1 Beljuril, 1 Diamond, and 1 Rogue Stone in SoA.

Modifié par Carinna, 24 octobre 2011 - 02:23 .

[dearlyblvd]

Thanks for the answers so far.

There is another thing that I don't understand about the AD&D rules in this game. While checking Minsc's character record, I see that his "number of attacks" is 2 while wielding Lilarcor (two handed sword). Jaheira only has 1 point in Quarterstaff and her "number of attacks" is 3/2 or 5/2 when she dual wield normal scimitars.

What exactly is "3/2" or "5/2" and how come Jaheira has a "higher" number than Minsc despite having just 1 point in her weapon proficiencies?

EDIT: I think that the weapon speed changes how many attacks the character can do per round, but I still don't understand how she has "3/2" wielding a two handed weapon and if "5/2" is something like "5 for main weapon and 2 for off-hand weapon". Can someone explain this to me?

Modifié par dearlyblvd, 26 octobre 2011 - 06:07 .

[Grond0]

Number of attacks and weapon speed are two different things. The weapon speed refers to how quickly the first attack occurs within the round. This is important as, if you have a fast weapon speed, you can get an attack in and run away before your opponet can retaliate. Number of attacks refers to how many attacks you can get in a round. 3/2 means you get 3 attacks in 2 rounds - you don't actually get a 1/2 attack in a round, it just means that one round you get only 1 attack and the next 2 attacks.

I imagine from your description that Minsc has 2 points in 2 handed weapon - this gives 1/2 extra attack. The other 1/2 extra comes from being level 7 as a fighter type (which is why Jaheira is 3/2). When dual wielding you get 1 extra attack per round with your left hand, which is why Jaheira gets up to 5/2. If Minsc were dual wielding he would get 3 attacks per round. Remember though that you get penalties to your attacks if you dual wield - it is rarely worth doing this without at least 2 points in two weapon proficiency.

Fighter types get an additional 1/2 attack per round when they get to level 13. There are also a number of ways to get extra attacks, e.g. special weapon bonuses (such as with Belm), haste type spells and potions and higher level abilities - there is a hard-coded limit of 10 attacks per round.

Modifié par Grond0, 26 octobre 2011 - 06:21 .

[Humanoid_Taifun]

Just for clarification.
You never get more than 1 attack per round with your left hand. (you may however split a round into 2 mini rounds)
5/2 APR does not translate to 5 + 2 attacks.
It's a fraction. As such, it means 2,5 or, as I prefer to write it, 2½.

@Grond0:
The hardcoded APR limit is 5. 10 APR means 5 attacks per 3second mini round.

Modifié par Humanoid_Taifun, 26 octobre 2011 - 07:02 .

[dearlyblvd]

Thanks for the answers.




This time I have a question related to in-game strategy. In my last game I took Aerie from the Circus until the beggining of Chapter 6, when I stopped playing BG2: SoA. When I checked her performance in my group, she had earned 3% total experience points for the entire game. In my current game, I'm still in Chapter 2, but doing more side quests before going to Spellhold. The experience points of my group are distributed in this manner (Keep in mind that I used Imoen only in Irenicus Dungeon):
Character / Experience earned (Entire game) / Time spent with the group / Notes
1) Main character (Wild Mage) - 15% - 7 days 0 hours
2) Minsc - 35% - 7 days 0 hours
3) Jaheira - 14% - 7 days 0 hours
4) Yoshimo - 18% - 6 days 14 hours - Will be replaced by Imoen
5) Nalia - 15% - 5 days 0 hours - Might be replaced for another NPC
6) Aerie - 0% - 5 days 5 hours - Strongest foe defeated: Bandit
7) Imoen - 3% - Currently held in Spellhold

I always viewed Aerie as a pure spellcaster, casting buffing spells for the party or attacking the enemies with offensive spells and a sling. In my previous game I used her as a healer aswell, but in this game I'm not using any druid/cleric slots for healing spells, with the exception of Mass Cure and Cure.

I learned a few tricks on how to play her better, but no matter how well I try to play with her, she is always behind everyone else in terms of experience points. I had the same problem with Dynaheir in Baldur's Gate 1, since she only achieved 3-5% XP for the group.

After checking a thread where people said that Aerie could be a really good secondary tank (which is Jaheira's current role), I decided to go to Copper Coronet and buy the Mauler's Arm to do some tests. I cast all the good defensive spells that she had memorized (despite the ones that only affects evil creatures, like Protection from Evil) and sent her to fight Minsc or Jaheira. The latter also had cast defensive spells.

Here are some informations about these characters:
Minsc / Ranger 10 / AC: -2 / THAC0: 4 (Two handed sword) / HP: 97

Aerie / Cleric 9, Mage 11 / AC pre-buffs: 0 / Strength pre-buffs: 18 / THAC0: 13 (Mace) / HP: 40 (41-48 with Aid)
Defensive spells (in order of casting):
1) Stone Skin - Duration: 12 hours
2) Mirror Image - Duration: 14 rounds (3+11)
3) Fire Shield (Blue) - Duration: 14 rounds (3+11)
4) Armor of Faith - Duration: 12 rounds (3+9)
5) Draw Holy Power - Duration: 10 rounds (1 turn)
6) Aid - Duration: 10 rounds (1+9)

Jaheira / Fighter 9 , Druid 11 / AC pre-buffs: -3 / Strength pre-buffs: 19 / THAC0: 7 (Quarterstaff) / HP: 75
Defensive spells (in order of casting):
1) Iron Skin - Duration: 12 hours
2) Armor of Faith: - Duration: 14 rounds (3+11)
3) Bless - Duration: 6 rounds - Affects the entire group (Therefore it helps Aerie)
4) Defensive Harmony - Duration: 6 rounds - Affects the entire group (Therefore it helps Aerie)

She fought Minsc once and Jaheira twice (1v1 fights). Due to all these buffs, Minsc or Jaheira couldn't hit her, and she couldn't him them, probably because of her low THAC0. Aerie managed to took over half of Jaheira's Hit Points twice because of her Fire Shield, but as soon as her defensive spells were gone, she got destroyed by Minsc/Jaheira.

So, by this point, I'm starting to doubt her usefulness to the party. I remember reading that she has access to many options, but she doesn't excel in any. I thought that this was wrong in the beggining, but now I don't see she can be that good unless she only gets powerful in the ending of SoA/beggining of ToB.

What are your thoughts about her? If you use her, what is her function in your party? What type of spells do you have memorized?

Thanks for the attention.

Modifié par dearlyblvd, 28 octobre 2011 - 07:56 .

[Humanoid_Taifun]

dearlyblvd wrote...
1) Main character (Wild Mage) - 15% - 7 days 0 hours
2) Minsc - 35% - 7 days 0 hours
3) Jaheira - 14% - 7 days 0 hours
4) Yoshimo - 18% - 6 days 14 hours - Will be replaced by Imoen
5) Nalia - 15% - 5 days 0 hours - Might be replaced for another NPC
6) Aerie - 0% - 5 days 5 hours - Strongest foe defeated: Bandit
7) Imoen - 3% - Currently held in Spellhold

Don't worry about these things. It doesn't mean that Aerie is missing out. (or that the group is)
In a full group there will always be support characters who don't pull as much weight as the others in battle.
This can even come to the extreme when you decide that your main character (for example) is really all you need, in which case you have 5 guys who look just like dead weight.
That doesn't lead to any issues though. Everybody is still getting enough XP, and nobody will complain you're not using them to their full potential.

1) Stone Skin - Duration: 12 hours
2) Mirror Image - Duration: 14 rounds (3+11)
3) Fire Shield (Blue) - Duration: 14 rounds (3+11)
4) Armor of Faith - Duration: 12 rounds (3+9)
5) Draw Holy Power - Duration: 10 rounds (1 turn)
6) Aid - Duration: 10 rounds (1+9)

You see there is a lot of spells missing here.
For Aerie to become a melee monster, she needs to really improve her offense. The divine combination of Holy Power-Righteous Magic-Draw Upon Holy Power would allow her to hit (and likely kill) Jaheira or Minsc, but she'd still be stuck with 1 APR (or 2 with Improved Haste), so a Shapechange (among several other things) would likely be in order to amend that. Yes, if you want to use her continuously that way, that'll be a lot of trouble (and the more powerful she is supposed to be, the more high level the spells are going to be).
Offensive spells combined with spell triggers, Sequencers, Contingencies and Melf's Minute Meteors could be her way to go for now.
When ordering your guys around on the battle field, keep in mind what kinds of spells she is going to use. Try to herd the enemies into one space before using an area of effect spell and get your own characters to safety (or buff them correctly before the fight) before sending a Friendly Fireball into the fray.

[Grond0]

With all the protections she has available it would make sense for Aerie to dual wield weapons if she is going to be in the front line - to get extra APR. As Humanoid_Taifun says though she would probably do better in a support role at the moment. You would find that regular use of MMM would hugely increase her kills compared to other characters (decent damage, 5 APR without haste and bonus THAC0 - the fire damage is also handy for disrupting spells by stoneskinned opponents).

[HoonDing]

Aerie never reaches her potential in a full party with 6 members. She really shines in smaller parties. Better to take Viconia or Anomen.

Modifié par virumor, 28 octobre 2011 - 08:40 .

[Humanoid_Taifun]

@virumor
That's true for pretty much every single build. You can't micromanage a full party in the same manner as a single character. (yes, you were probably referring to the XP, but meticulous control means a lot too)

[Ishad Nha]

I used Level 1 NPCs mod to make Aerie a single-class Sorceror. She was quite good in that role.
Alternately you could make her a single-class Cleric, though her Strength and Constitution are well below what you want for melee.

[dearlyblvd]

I'm aware of the Level 1 NPCs modification, but I decided that I will try my best to play in vanilla mode in this playthrough.

In relation to my group, I removed Minsc to get Haer'Dalis just to complete the Planar Sphere quest. After finishing it, these were the experiences for each character:
1) Main character - 20%
2) Jaheira - 21%
3) Haer'Dalis - 0% (Time spent with the group: 2 hours)
4) Yoshimo - 22%
5) Nalia - 25%
6) Aerie - 9%

Based on this, I think that 'usefulness' is extremely relative. Aerie's experience increased drastically in a group consisted mostly of five characters. I'm also surprised with how well Nalia is helping the party, specially because she was the first NPC that I was sure that I would remove, and now I'm considering in letting her in.

It seems that Aerie's self-buffing spells are usually a waste unless I want to use them in situations where the group was ambushed by enemies (Sanctuary could help just fine, instead of casting Stoneskin/Mirror Image) or if I want to make her a 'boss-killer'.

My idea related to 'boss-killer' is that based on the combats results that I described in my previous post, Aerie's defense can be really good, and with the right spells that Humanoid_Taifun mentioned (Holy Power/Righteous Magic) she can hit really hard. The main problem is that it takes too long to cast all these buffs, so she needs to use them with Minor Spell Sequencer/Spell Sequencer/Spell Trigger. So it seems that Aerie can indeed be better at melee combat than any fighter in the game, but only for a short amount of time.

Modifié par dearlyblvd, 29 octobre 2011 - 05:29 .

[morbidest2]

dearlyblvd wrote...

. I'm also surprised with how well Nalia is helping the party, specially because she was the first NPC that I was sure that I would remove, and now I'm considering in letting her in.

.

 
If you're not using Edwin because of role playing reasons ("good" party) Nalia normally becomes your most powerful arcane magic user in vanilla SoA and ToB simply because her quest normally is done so early in the run.

Modifié par morbidest2, 29 octobre 2011 - 02:08 .

[dearlyblvd]

Hello again. When Viconia joins the group, the reputation is lowered by 2 points. As far as I know, the maximum reputation that my party can get to is 20 (heroic) and evil characters don't accept to stay in the group if the reputation hits 19-20 points.

Right now the reputation of my group is 18. If Viconia joins, it will be lowered to 16. Let's say that I keep doing quests and reach a reputation of 19. Will she leave the group or will it remain 18 because the maximum reputation is theorically capped at 20?

I'm also curious to know if there are any quests in SoA that will reduce my reputation depending of my actions (before Chapter 6).

Modifié par dearlyblvd, 02 novembre 2011 - 03:51 .

[Humanoid_Taifun]

You can reach rep20 with Viconia in you group.
If you quickly kick her out before she leaves, you reputation is supposed to go up by 2 points - but since 20 is the maximum, that's where it'll stay, so if you take Viconia back into your group, the reputation loss of 2 will put your reputation to a comfortable 18 and she'll complain, but not leave.

If she leaves of her own volition, she's gone for good.

Many quests allow you to take an evil route that can reduce your reputation, some more so than others (kidnapping is very frowned upon for example).

Modifié par Humanoid_Taifun, 02 novembre 2011 - 04:55 .