208 réponses à ce sujet

[Snarkoleptic]

This may be something that's already been said, but personally, my objection to the Circle is the flat requirement that everyone born with magic, regardless of ability, has to be spirited away to live under the watchful eye of the templars. Oversimplify it a bit (okay, a lot) and you get "your pa was an axe murderer and you got hands, so off you go to prison where we can watch what you do with the axes lying around there." There's no option for anyone to demonstrate that they're able to function normally with magic - it's just "ooooh, you're cursed, off to the tower with you."

I'm sure there are a lot of abuses and mercies both, all taking place outside what we see in the scope of our characters in the game, but forced relocation based on a trait they're born with is just wrong. I think that's the underlying reason why, outside of playing different angles to see the whole story, I always end up siding with the mages when I go through DA2.

From what I've seen, I might be slightly less irked by the idea of Circles guarded by templars if the Harrowing was used more as a "you're okay, go live your life" stamp. Or, instead of locking everyone up, including templars, in a Circle, why not plunk a couple of templars in different villages and set them working with senior mages so the young ones can be educated and someone's on hand to deal with those who are either bad eggs or too weak to resist demons?

And lastly, am I the only one bothered by the fact that blood magic is horrible, terrible, and forbidden, and yet templars use phylacteries filled with the blood of mages to track them down? How is that not abominable mean old nasty blood magic?

[LobselVith8]

Hanz54321 wrote...

The thing I find most amusing is my first post about Whilhelm on this thread had no agenda other than to point out another instance of known mages being given special treatment. Yet somehow everyone is discussing him now. It was a minor point of interest when I posted it.

Except Wilhelm isn't a mage given special treatment, the fact that he has a child and is living outside the Circle directly addresses that he isn't likely part of the Circle of Ferelden anymore, because Circle mages can't keep their children since the Chantry takes them away.

If so many mages were receiving the "special treatment" that some speculate they are, then mages wouldn't have debated breaking free entirely of the Chantry and the templars, with Wynne warning that the Chantry would rather kill all the mages than see them free.

[SunnKingg]

Snarkoleptic wrote...

This may be something that's already been said, but personally, my objection to the Circle is the flat requirement that everyone born with magic, regardless of ability, has to be spirited away to live under the watchful eye of the templars. Oversimplify it a bit (okay, a lot) and you get "your pa was an axe murderer and you got hands, so off you go to prison where we can watch what you do with the axes lying around there." There's no option for anyone to demonstrate that they're able to function normally with magic - it's just "ooooh, you're cursed, off to the tower with you."

I'm sure there are a lot of abuses and mercies both, all taking place outside what we see in the scope of our characters in the game, but forced relocation based on a trait they're born with is just wrong. I think that's the underlying reason why, outside of playing different angles to see the whole story, I always end up siding with the mages when I go through DA2.

From what I've seen, I might be slightly less irked by the idea of Circles guarded by templars if the Harrowing was used more as a "you're okay, go live your life" stamp. Or, instead of locking everyone up, including templars, in a Circle, why not plunk a couple of templars in different villages and set them working with senior mages so the young ones can be educated and someone's on hand to deal with those who are either bad eggs or too weak to resist demons?

And lastly, am I the only one bothered by the fact that blood magic is horrible, terrible, and forbidden, and yet templars use phylacteries filled with the blood of mages to track them down? How is that not abominable mean old nasty blood magic?

Are you a blood mage? You just read my mind.

[Snarkoleptic]

SunnKingg wrote...

Are you a blood mage? You just read my mind.

... So long as I didn't just magick your breath away...

[PussTheMabari]

LobselVith8 wrote...

PussTheMabari wrote...

Hmm I agree.  But what mystifies me is if it was so easy to gain some freedom, why did Anders persist in escapes which were doomed to end in failure because of his phylactery?

Because it isn't. Wynne is a Senior Enchanter, and even she needs permission to leave the Circle Tower - which she gets from either the First Enchanter or the Knight-Commander to aid in the Fifth Blight, and she's also the next in line to be First Enchanter of the Circle of Ferelden. Ines is studying a plant that is rumored to be able to grow in Blighted soil (which is the explanation she provides if The Warden questions why she's still in Amaranthine), which is undoubtably important given the utter devastation that was caused by the Fifth Blight (which is why crops won't grow in Lothering anymore). Finn is a skilled linquist, and he has permission to leave concerning his research in languages. All three of these cases are isolated, and not likely to be the case for the majority of mages residing in the Circle Tower. The only mage who has any real freedom is a Grey Warden.

PussTheMabari wrote...

If I were Anders, I'd behave myself and earn the right to be let out.  It could be that the privilege is given to a select few out of many many mages, since most of the mages allowed out were outstanding in some way.  That means if you were a mediocre mage, perhaps you would never have the chance to ever leave the circle, as there'd be someone better-qualified that you to send.

How is Anders going to "earn" the right? Is he going to be next in line to be First Enchanter? Is he going to be a botonist and study a rare plant that could save the Blighted soil of Ferelden? Is he going to become a master linquist? If getting outside the Circle Tower was so effortless, there wouldn't have been a rebellion in Ferelden.

 

Ah, that was my point then.  Sorry if I didn't make it clear enough.  If we can all agree that permission to leave is only granted to a select few mages under very special circumstances, and that most mages will never be given that privilege, as indicated by Anders burning need to escape the tower, then there's no point discussing the exceptions to the rule e.g. Wynne, Ines, WIlhelm and Bethany.   That was the point of contention wasn't it?  :-p  

[Joy Divison]

I think it's clear that unless a mage is a war-hero, very senior with the Templar seal of approval, or plot driven like Finn (non-Mage wardens need a mage for a complete party) and Bethany (Legacy would be less interesting without her), Circle Mages better get used to Templar Bran's snide comments when you ask him to open the doors.

[labargegrrrl]

i have this brilliant idea! let's stick all of the dangerous powerful people in Thedas in a very few locations to trade notes and see what happens!

well, you end up with two situations.

situation one: all the mages get together, stage a coup and end up enslaving an entire race of people (plus a few others) and constantly resorting to more and more evil to rise in power.

situation two: all the mages end up imprisoned by everyone else (i don't care how gilded the cage is, it's still a cage!) and constantly under stress because a particular group of people holds absolute dominion over their mind, body and soul (even if they're choosing to "let" some of these ADULTS do more than others). because stressing a mage out is a great plan.

Circles of Magi, wherever they're found, serve to focus all of the power of magic in a given area (sometimes a whole nation) into one place. how did that strike anyone as a good idea?

[andysdead]

I suppose one could look at mages in Thedas as being similar to Jews in Hitler's Germany. Early in their persecution, they are removed to isolated locations, but generally allowed to continue with their lives so long as they don't mingle or mix with those of "pure" blood. As time progresses, however, and more blame is placed on them for atrocities (real or imagined), the persecution gains momentum. The answer to the "mage question" (much like the "Jewish question") becomes the practice of preventing their tainted gene pool from propagating itself. They are made sterile (Circle mages were not allowed to marry or bear children in Kirkwall), and the practice of euthanasia takes root (the Rite of Tranquility). Suddenly something bad happens (Germany losing the war, the Chantry being destroyed), and the blame is placed on the persecuted people. Upper leadership issues the order to enact their "final solution" to the problem of these undesirables. They are then systematically exterminated, unless they manage to fight back!

[SkittlesKat96]

Speaking of the Circles I'd imagine the Circle Towers will be good defensive positions for the mages.

Regardless of whether they kill the Templars, the Templars ditch, or the Templars work with the mage they will start taking over the towers and use this to their benefit.

For example the Ferelden Circle Tower...its pretty much in the middle of a large lake. They could set up magical defenses and more mages might come to the towers and everything.