Hope this topic fits in this forum. I chose the spoiler forum so people feel free to reference the game.
My question is how people feel about the art/design direction of Dragon Age 2. In terms of armor, weapons, environments.This has probably been discussed before so I will try and narrow the topic down to more specifics.
I found the art direction of Dragon Age Origins to be a little unvaried and lacking in detail. But I did appreciate the more somber approach to design. Things were not extremely flashy (in terms of armor and weapons for example) but more practical. The design of objects had a functional approach. Some times I wish RPG games would be more "tasteful" in that way. It would be great to see a combination of the detail of DA2 and the somber/practical look of DA:O. If we for example take Hawkes Key from DA Legacy. That weapon looks like some kind of manga/warhammer/sci-fi design. The same goes for Vigilance (from DA: Awakening). It really bothers me actually. Why is the gaming industry so afraid of being more casual about stuff. I feel like designs like that are just bad taste fantasy. If the desire is to be unique, maybe going towards something more "real" is the way to go since the rest of the fantasy RPG genre is packed with oversized sci-fi designs.
When it comes to environments I thoroughly enjoyed the more detailed environments of DA2. Although I think there could be improvements in giving the environments more atmosphere through even more varied clothing on NPCs and the sense of history and aging in the materials of the buildings. Probably this costs more money than maybe is available, but I'll suggest it anyway.
Another thing I really liked were the individual armors/clothing of companions in DA2. But it would be nice with more options even if the clothing is personal to each companion, but I think I read that this is being looked at. I also found the armor designs in general to be more varied and detailed, NICE. There could be more options for mages beyond robes that practically look the same. The mantles (i.e. Malcolms mantle and Champions Mantle) were really nice options I think.
It strikes me that some designs are really neat and have something unique but still real about them, like the champions armor and some weapons that really have a clean, yet unique look. While other things like Hawkes Key and some of the armors are again these extremely overdesigned and strange configurations. How do you all feel about this? Anyone else who feels there is unclarity in the direction of the designs and sometimes even completely overdesigned and (for a lack of a better word) sci-fi looking weapons that feel like they don't really belong in a game like Dragon Age that to me has an atmosphere closer to something hard and rough, something more practical and straight forward.
Something that also striked me in terms of design was the final battle with Meredith in DA2. Suddenly I feel like I am in a Final Fantasy game. Why does her Sword have to look like a laser shooting, alien monster of doom instead of a neat, funtional, but powerful artifact that looks like a skilled fighter could actually swing and defend with. And her armor seems like the most clunky and unpractical thing. Sure, unique designs, but also some reality would be nice. It is not all wrong; it is a fantasy game and not reality, but some effects and designs feel a little out of place to me. I feel like I am in a comic in that final fight with Meredith rather than a hard, dark fantasy world where people die and fight with their blood as cost. This is of course completely my own subjective opinion but I imagine Dragon Age as a world that is more down to earth, where things matter and have consequences. I think this could be reflected more in the design and atmosphere of the environments, objects and NPCs.
And finally. I only say this because I really like the games and enjoy playing them very much!
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Art direction of Dragon Age
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, oct. 21 2011 11:58
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#2
Posté 21 octobre 2011 - 12:31
thats1evildude
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You must point out examples of this "somber" art design that was present in Origins, because I sure as hell can't see them.
Little has changed for me in the transition from Origins to DA2. Mostly, it's the people who look different, not the gear.
Little has changed for me in the transition from Origins to DA2. Mostly, it's the people who look different, not the gear.
Modifié par thats1evildude, 21 octobre 2011 - 12:38 .
#3
Posté 21 octobre 2011 - 04:10
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Really? You don't think items like the Key of Hawke is quite different from Origins style of weapons: http://dragonage.wik...Key_2hSword.jpg
Even Starfang was not that elaborate. Other examples could be the sword of the Arishok. Awakening was already going in this direction with things like Vigilance: http://images.wikia....eGreatSword.png
Also the black Warden armor in Awakening was a bit off for me. With that red shining contours of a face on the the chest.. Why not have a carving in those features instead of the "laser effect"?
Maybe Origins just didn't have the engine or budget to put more effort into unique designs and therefore turned out more "somber". I am not saying all gear in Dragon Age 2 is over elaborate. But as soon as something is a powerful relic, the design team seem to make an effort towards extreme designs instead of clean and neat items with extra detail. I think a nicer way to make a unique item could be just amplifying materials like adding a golden hilt or some runes across a blade, or stone at the end of a mage staff (like staff of parlathan), instead of making a staff like the Key of Hawke (http://dragonage.wik...s_Key_Staff.jpg) that looks so heavy that only some kind of barbarian muscle packed warrior could maybe swing it with a lot of force.
Weapons like the Summersword from Origins (a design which occurs in DA2 as well by the way) has a much cleaner look I think. I'd like to see more variations on this type of design instead of immediately making a crazy sci-fi looking item just to point out the uniqueness. But maybe this goes for Origins as well. I would for example keep Armor of Diligance on my character simply because it looked so much more "sober" and clean compared to the Massive armor design which just looks like you can't move in it.
So my suggestion would be to stick with simpler designs but with greater detail or nice materials, like some golden or silvery details/carvings.
Another thing that crosses my mind now is the way affects are displayed in game. In origins all that shining and pulsing and glyph looking effects drove me a little nuts haha. This improved in DA2 but then again things like Rock Armor just felt unnecessary and ugly (to me). Why not just have the skin look more stonelike and crackled instead or stones sticking out everywhere like a golemn.
So maybe it goes for both games. But still. Cleaner, neater, more sober, more real is what I like. And I feel that a combination of detail from DA2 and the more straight forward designs that first appeared in Origins is nice. I think the Grey Warden armors in DA2 for example were a really nice middle way.
I think some of the monsters could also be slicker.
I also have to go back to the final fight with Meredith. Is there nothing there which you found excessive? The blast when the chantry was destroyed was really cool.. There it is justified for me; it is not a small feat to explode an entire building like that and it is a really central and important event, it justifies a Magnificent blast of power, but when Meredith starts waving her oversized sword and shooting laser at me.. Well, then I start laughing a bit.
Even Starfang was not that elaborate. Other examples could be the sword of the Arishok. Awakening was already going in this direction with things like Vigilance: http://images.wikia....eGreatSword.png
Also the black Warden armor in Awakening was a bit off for me. With that red shining contours of a face on the the chest.. Why not have a carving in those features instead of the "laser effect"?
Maybe Origins just didn't have the engine or budget to put more effort into unique designs and therefore turned out more "somber". I am not saying all gear in Dragon Age 2 is over elaborate. But as soon as something is a powerful relic, the design team seem to make an effort towards extreme designs instead of clean and neat items with extra detail. I think a nicer way to make a unique item could be just amplifying materials like adding a golden hilt or some runes across a blade, or stone at the end of a mage staff (like staff of parlathan), instead of making a staff like the Key of Hawke (http://dragonage.wik...s_Key_Staff.jpg) that looks so heavy that only some kind of barbarian muscle packed warrior could maybe swing it with a lot of force.
Weapons like the Summersword from Origins (a design which occurs in DA2 as well by the way) has a much cleaner look I think. I'd like to see more variations on this type of design instead of immediately making a crazy sci-fi looking item just to point out the uniqueness. But maybe this goes for Origins as well. I would for example keep Armor of Diligance on my character simply because it looked so much more "sober" and clean compared to the Massive armor design which just looks like you can't move in it.
So my suggestion would be to stick with simpler designs but with greater detail or nice materials, like some golden or silvery details/carvings.
Another thing that crosses my mind now is the way affects are displayed in game. In origins all that shining and pulsing and glyph looking effects drove me a little nuts haha. This improved in DA2 but then again things like Rock Armor just felt unnecessary and ugly (to me). Why not just have the skin look more stonelike and crackled instead or stones sticking out everywhere like a golemn.
So maybe it goes for both games. But still. Cleaner, neater, more sober, more real is what I like. And I feel that a combination of detail from DA2 and the more straight forward designs that first appeared in Origins is nice. I think the Grey Warden armors in DA2 for example were a really nice middle way.
I think some of the monsters could also be slicker.
I also have to go back to the final fight with Meredith. Is there nothing there which you found excessive? The blast when the chantry was destroyed was really cool.. There it is justified for me; it is not a small feat to explode an entire building like that and it is a really central and important event, it justifies a Magnificent blast of power, but when Meredith starts waving her oversized sword and shooting laser at me.. Well, then I start laughing a bit.
Modifié par Discus, 21 octobre 2011 - 04:16 .
#4
Posté 21 octobre 2011 - 05:39
OmegaXI
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I myself enjoy seeing the different artistic interpretations of the Dragon Age World, it gives each game a new prespective and flavor.
Modifié par OmegaXI, 21 octobre 2011 - 05:39 .
#5
Posté 21 octobre 2011 - 06:01
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Mm, I agree. Nothing wrong with change. That is not what I would like to discuss. It has more to do with what kind of choices. Not that every game should be the same.
So I guess you are satisfied with both the change and the design choices within the change itself?
Not so many responses to this thread so far. So I guess not many hold the same opinion or have other opinions about the subject then agreeing with the designs?
Again, don't get me wrong. I love the Dragon Age series and appreciate a lot of the design choices. But not all of them.
So I guess you are satisfied with both the change and the design choices within the change itself?
Not so many responses to this thread so far. So I guess not many hold the same opinion or have other opinions about the subject then agreeing with the designs?
Again, don't get me wrong. I love the Dragon Age series and appreciate a lot of the design choices. But not all of them.
Modifié par Discus, 21 octobre 2011 - 06:03 .
#6
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Posté 21 octobre 2011 - 07:32
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I would agree inasmuch as I didn't like the Meredith fight inasmuch as her glowy sword and lightsaber sound effects were a bit questionable and the 100 foot jump was ridiculous. I would also agree that weapon design in general could stand to look more practical, greatswords don't need to be so huge and questionably designed. I think thinner more graceful greatswords would look better and make more sense with the animations. There could be the occasional weapon o' doom that's more outlandishly designed but in general I'd prefer more subdued designs.
#7
Posté 21 octobre 2011 - 10:28
TEWR
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God damn I had this perfect long-winded post to help add to the discussion and the damn site actually logged me out. Not a trick logging out but actually logged me out.
*sigh*
To summarize what I can remember off the top of my head:
1) Much of DAII's armor was either old armor types from DAO or armor that was tweaked a bit to look a tad different, but there were new types. The Champion set and Dimension are two. The former was great. The latter (and the Darkspawn armor too) sucked something awful
2) I liked the Sentinel Armor set. It didn't actually glow. It was just a very dark red set against jet black, but it didn't glow. I'll edit in a picture:
3) DAII's Deep Roads over DAO's and possibly DAII's Fade over DAO's if we see more of it, since we only saw it in Feynriel's dream
4) More detail in the cities would be welcome, especially in times of conflict
5) Hawke's Key Mage staff and 2-Handed weapon I liked. The other types I didn't. Vigilance I liked. I would like to see the 2-Handers have thinner blades and smaller hilts if possible, but it's not a major gripe. I would also like to see bowstrings.
6) Liked DAII's environments, but I want to see more detail in the environments. Also, more environments.
7) Didn't like Meredith jumping 70 feet and having a sword that sounded like a lightsaber. The glowing I had no problem with since lyrium has been told to us to glow and it's enchanted into armor. My only main gripe with the lyrium idol is how poorly it was implemented.
That's all I can remember since my post was deleted.
*sigh*
To summarize what I can remember off the top of my head:
1) Much of DAII's armor was either old armor types from DAO or armor that was tweaked a bit to look a tad different, but there were new types. The Champion set and Dimension are two. The former was great. The latter (and the Darkspawn armor too) sucked something awful
2) I liked the Sentinel Armor set. It didn't actually glow. It was just a very dark red set against jet black, but it didn't glow. I'll edit in a picture:
3) DAII's Deep Roads over DAO's and possibly DAII's Fade over DAO's if we see more of it, since we only saw it in Feynriel's dream
4) More detail in the cities would be welcome, especially in times of conflict
5) Hawke's Key Mage staff and 2-Handed weapon I liked. The other types I didn't. Vigilance I liked. I would like to see the 2-Handers have thinner blades and smaller hilts if possible, but it's not a major gripe. I would also like to see bowstrings.
6) Liked DAII's environments, but I want to see more detail in the environments. Also, more environments.
7) Didn't like Meredith jumping 70 feet and having a sword that sounded like a lightsaber. The glowing I had no problem with since lyrium has been told to us to glow and it's enchanted into armor. My only main gripe with the lyrium idol is how poorly it was implemented.
That's all I can remember since my post was deleted.
#8
Posté 22 octobre 2011 - 12:29
DRTJR
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In origins it was mostly just bland, although I did like the Werewolves, Darkspawn, the Sentinel Armour, the starsword, and the sword Vigilance. Art wise DA2 I thought was leaps and bounds better than Origins
#9
Posté 22 octobre 2011 - 12:49
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Ok! So there are people ut there that have thoughts about this, nice 
! Was starting to worry that this thread was gonna die.
Yeah, Meredith jumping 70 feet is very off. But that does not have so much to do with design but it definitely adds to the exaggeration of that entire scene.
Concerning her sword. Sure, it can glow from the lyrium, but for me it is more the shape and size of the sword that she wields is kind of ridiculous. I am sorry for being so harsh but for me those sci-fi designs just does not fit into any fantasy world. I don't understand the fantasy genres obsession with these kind of designs. When did cool become the same as megasized-laser-alien artifact-with a completely unpractical and non functional shape. Maybe I over-used Hawkes key in this thread a bit, but it is just a very clear example for illustrating an unrealistic design. And I don't mean in terms of trying to be authentic to midieval weapons, because we are playing a fantasy game after all. But in terms of physics, which Dragon Age seem to obide by, (why else would you have attributes for str and dexterity for example) a weapon like Hawkes Key becomes ridiculous (sorry for being harsh again, not meant as an insult but it is just my opinion) and laughable because it does not make sense. It is humorous. Just like the Ministry of Funny Walks is humorous in Monthy Python because why would anyone walk in such a ridiculously awkward way when you can just walk normal. That is the very definition of ridiculous. An oversized weapon that claims to be a sword but looks more like a club does not make sense. It would be smarter to just use a kitchen knife instead, faster, lighter, more control, better balance.
Ok, that was a little bit of a rant. My point is; These types of design choices pull me out of the story and makes it hard for me to relate to the world I am engaging with through the game because they don't add up. Why I stress the idea of functional design is because I believe that is a constructive and basic concept to make neat and good looking designs. I am a dancer/choreographer and the best dance, whether I like the idea and expression or not is dance that is done effortlessly and when the body is functional and connected. It is so beautiful to see Michael Jordan jump because his entire body is organized and coordinated in space and time to jump, it is functional, thus beautiful, it is technique. I think the same goes for design in most cases. Of course it is also about context. There is beautiful art that look awful in the wrong context.. And there are pieces of art that are very experimental in its form, but even then, quality art has purpose (function).. You might like it or not. But function determines quality in many cases.
So, make a sword as elaborate and unique as you want. But it should still do its job. you should be able to swing it without looking like an ogre and it should be able to cut, poke and slash in an effective way. Take Vigilance for example.. Ok, the blade kind of works, I don't love the design of the blade but I buy it.. But then look at the hilt, it looks like a sword people would hang up in their Chateus on the walls for its exotic look, not something you go to war with.
Something I really like are the Dwarfven statues, the big squared ones that you see in both Origins and DA2. They fit, I think all would agree that they fit Dwarfven culture, background and way of thought, it makes sense because it is connected. Those designs draw me into the game because they create atmosphere and belong to the context of Dwarfven culture. That is an example of function and product for me, you can't question it, it just fits.
Context, context.. It feels like pleasing design really has to do with that.
! Was starting to worry that this thread was gonna die.Yeah, Meredith jumping 70 feet is very off. But that does not have so much to do with design but it definitely adds to the exaggeration of that entire scene.
Concerning her sword. Sure, it can glow from the lyrium, but for me it is more the shape and size of the sword that she wields is kind of ridiculous. I am sorry for being so harsh but for me those sci-fi designs just does not fit into any fantasy world. I don't understand the fantasy genres obsession with these kind of designs. When did cool become the same as megasized-laser-alien artifact-with a completely unpractical and non functional shape. Maybe I over-used Hawkes key in this thread a bit, but it is just a very clear example for illustrating an unrealistic design. And I don't mean in terms of trying to be authentic to midieval weapons, because we are playing a fantasy game after all. But in terms of physics, which Dragon Age seem to obide by, (why else would you have attributes for str and dexterity for example) a weapon like Hawkes Key becomes ridiculous (sorry for being harsh again, not meant as an insult but it is just my opinion) and laughable because it does not make sense. It is humorous. Just like the Ministry of Funny Walks is humorous in Monthy Python because why would anyone walk in such a ridiculously awkward way when you can just walk normal. That is the very definition of ridiculous. An oversized weapon that claims to be a sword but looks more like a club does not make sense. It would be smarter to just use a kitchen knife instead, faster, lighter, more control, better balance.
Ok, that was a little bit of a rant. My point is; These types of design choices pull me out of the story and makes it hard for me to relate to the world I am engaging with through the game because they don't add up. Why I stress the idea of functional design is because I believe that is a constructive and basic concept to make neat and good looking designs. I am a dancer/choreographer and the best dance, whether I like the idea and expression or not is dance that is done effortlessly and when the body is functional and connected. It is so beautiful to see Michael Jordan jump because his entire body is organized and coordinated in space and time to jump, it is functional, thus beautiful, it is technique. I think the same goes for design in most cases. Of course it is also about context. There is beautiful art that look awful in the wrong context.. And there are pieces of art that are very experimental in its form, but even then, quality art has purpose (function).. You might like it or not. But function determines quality in many cases.
So, make a sword as elaborate and unique as you want. But it should still do its job. you should be able to swing it without looking like an ogre and it should be able to cut, poke and slash in an effective way. Take Vigilance for example.. Ok, the blade kind of works, I don't love the design of the blade but I buy it.. But then look at the hilt, it looks like a sword people would hang up in their Chateus on the walls for its exotic look, not something you go to war with.
Something I really like are the Dwarfven statues, the big squared ones that you see in both Origins and DA2. They fit, I think all would agree that they fit Dwarfven culture, background and way of thought, it makes sense because it is connected. Those designs draw me into the game because they create atmosphere and belong to the context of Dwarfven culture. That is an example of function and product for me, you can't question it, it just fits.
Context, context.. It feels like pleasing design really has to do with that.
#10
Posté 22 octobre 2011 - 01:21
TEWR
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Why wouldn't a person walk in a silly fashion in normal life?
My nephew and I are actually planning on doing that when we go up to Michigan. We're just going to walk all sillily and see what the locals do.
But I get what you're saying. Which Vigilance model are we talking about though? The Longsword or the Greatsword? Because from what I can see on the longsword in the tiny pics there are of it, it has a handguard which is something that swords had in our history IIRC (specifically rapiers).
As for the Dwarven statues, I agree they're nice. But I'd like to see more variety. All the statues look the same. In Origins you had a man and a woman, but they didn't have much detail put into them.
I'd like for there to be more detail in the statues. I'd even like for some statues to depict Dwarven warriors fighting the Darkspawn and winning.
The Dwarves have gotten shortchanged lately, and Xanthos Aeducan is not pleased. Bioware is racist against Dwarves! They have an anti-Dwarf agenda!
My nephew and I are actually planning on doing that when we go up to Michigan. We're just going to walk all sillily and see what the locals do.
But I get what you're saying. Which Vigilance model are we talking about though? The Longsword or the Greatsword? Because from what I can see on the longsword in the tiny pics there are of it, it has a handguard which is something that swords had in our history IIRC (specifically rapiers).
As for the Dwarven statues, I agree they're nice. But I'd like to see more variety. All the statues look the same. In Origins you had a man and a woman, but they didn't have much detail put into them.
I'd like for there to be more detail in the statues. I'd even like for some statues to depict Dwarven warriors fighting the Darkspawn and winning.
The Dwarves have gotten shortchanged lately, and Xanthos Aeducan is not pleased. Bioware is racist against Dwarves! They have an anti-Dwarf agenda!
#11
Posté 22 octobre 2011 - 01:22
Macropodmum
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Lol, thinking of oversized swords the one you give to Fenris comes to mind straight off. I'm with you on the designs, I have found that there seems to be a lack of elegant looking equipment/armour with good stats; in order to get the better stats I have to settle for some gaudy looking piece, so I often find myself foregoing better equipment in order to be stylish ( I know 
). I would really love to see some more elegant pieces with nice stats and/or plenty of rune slots.
). I would really love to see some more elegant pieces with nice stats and/or plenty of rune slots.
#12
Posté 22 octobre 2011 - 04:17
Brockololly
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I really don't think any of the designs in DA2 are necessarily more detailed than anything in Origins. Certainly some of the weapons and armor in DA 2 are more over the top and flashy, but they end up looking absolutely impractical and ridiculous. Like the Champion armor being laden with spikes in every conceivable place. Who in the world would even try to design or wear something like that?
Or the weapons being ridiculously oversized. That was an issue in Origins that only seems to have gotten worse in DA2 when combined with the more inane designs.
I like it when you can look at armor or weapons in a game and think that it would be plausible for somebody to make them or actually use them. Like most of the armor/weapons in The Witcher 2- they're not oversized and the armor almost always looks very functional. You don't have insanely oversized weapons, but you still have unique looking and detailed weapons that can actually be sheathed and don't simply float on your back.
With the environments, again, I don't think DA2's were very detailed at all. Thats not to say Origins' were great, but IMO, they were better than DA2- they had more atmosphere. I know in one of the early interviews, the devs made specific mention of the environments lacking detail and being more sparse was an intended design decision with the art style. To me, it just made the world look boring, dead and lifeless.
Ultimately, I think the art style change was completely unnecessary and poorly done. Origins' art needed some refinement and tweaking to be sure, but I think most of it was in the department of technical improvements so that they could more faithfully implement the art designs into in game assets which more closely matched the art. Combined with even the lackluster technical improvements, like the bizarre facemorph system and lackluster lighting yet again, and I just found DA2's visuals to be a bit of a mess.
Or the weapons being ridiculously oversized. That was an issue in Origins that only seems to have gotten worse in DA2 when combined with the more inane designs.
I like it when you can look at armor or weapons in a game and think that it would be plausible for somebody to make them or actually use them. Like most of the armor/weapons in The Witcher 2- they're not oversized and the armor almost always looks very functional. You don't have insanely oversized weapons, but you still have unique looking and detailed weapons that can actually be sheathed and don't simply float on your back.
With the environments, again, I don't think DA2's were very detailed at all. Thats not to say Origins' were great, but IMO, they were better than DA2- they had more atmosphere. I know in one of the early interviews, the devs made specific mention of the environments lacking detail and being more sparse was an intended design decision with the art style. To me, it just made the world look boring, dead and lifeless.
Ultimately, I think the art style change was completely unnecessary and poorly done. Origins' art needed some refinement and tweaking to be sure, but I think most of it was in the department of technical improvements so that they could more faithfully implement the art designs into in game assets which more closely matched the art. Combined with even the lackluster technical improvements, like the bizarre facemorph system and lackluster lighting yet again, and I just found DA2's visuals to be a bit of a mess.
#13
Posté 22 octobre 2011 - 06:00
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Well put Brockololly! I haven't played the Witcher so I can't really comment on that. But I do agree with a lot of what you say.
Also the things that some previous replys pointed out. Like going for an armor with worse stats so that you can look good because better stats seem to mean crazy design.
Brockololly, your comment on the Champion Armor has a point as well. I do like the design more than some of the other unique armors, but you are right, it definitely borders on being non functional.
I just started replaying DA:O the other day and I have to say, the atmosphere in the designs of the environments are really good still. But they need more detail and better graphic for sure. But the feel is right, origins is a much darker game than da2 in terms of atmosphere and art according to me.. In da2 atmosphere was instead implemented through the framed narrative and really nice cinematic touch, which I like! But the environments somehow feel a little less dark fantasy then origins for me. Maybe it has to do with the fereldan setting in da:o?
In da:2 I sometimes felt that the darkness of Dragon Age was displayed through grotesque stories like your mom becoming frankenstein. Frankenstein is a fantastic story. But again, only so in the right context and in da2 it felt more grotesque than dark to me. But hey maybe Im wrong, others might disagree.
This is not to say Origins environments were much better than da2. But for their seperate context I think the environments of Origins did a better job than da2 to create a dark atmosphere.
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Also the things that some previous replys pointed out. Like going for an armor with worse stats so that you can look good because better stats seem to mean crazy design.
Brockololly, your comment on the Champion Armor has a point as well. I do like the design more than some of the other unique armors, but you are right, it definitely borders on being non functional.
I just started replaying DA:O the other day and I have to say, the atmosphere in the designs of the environments are really good still. But they need more detail and better graphic for sure. But the feel is right, origins is a much darker game than da2 in terms of atmosphere and art according to me.. In da2 atmosphere was instead implemented through the framed narrative and really nice cinematic touch, which I like! But the environments somehow feel a little less dark fantasy then origins for me. Maybe it has to do with the fereldan setting in da:o?
In da:2 I sometimes felt that the darkness of Dragon Age was displayed through grotesque stories like your mom becoming frankenstein. Frankenstein is a fantastic story. But again, only so in the right context and in da2 it felt more grotesque than dark to me. But hey maybe Im wrong, others might disagree.
This is not to say Origins environments were much better than da2. But for their seperate context I think the environments of Origins did a better job than da2 to create a dark atmosphere.
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#14
Posté 22 octobre 2011 - 06:43
alex90c
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The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...
God damn I had this perfect long-winded post to help add to the discussion and the damn site actually logged me out. Not a trick logging out but actually logged me out.
*sigh*
To summarize what I can remember off the top of my head:
1) Much of DAII's armor was either old armor types from DAO or armor that was tweaked a bit to look a tad different, but there were new types. The Champion set and Dimension are two. The former was great. The latter (and the Darkspawn armor too) sucked something awful
2) I liked the Sentinel Armor set. It didn't actually glow. It was just a very dark red set against jet black, but it didn't glow. I'll edit in a picture:
3) DAII's Deep Roads over DAO's and possibly DAII's Fade over DAO's if we see more of it, since we only saw it in Feynriel's dream
4) More detail in the cities would be welcome, especially in times of conflict
5) Hawke's Key Mage staff and 2-Handed weapon I liked. The other types I didn't. Vigilance I liked. I would like to see the 2-Handers have thinner blades and smaller hilts if possible, but it's not a major gripe. I would also like to see bowstrings.
6) Liked DAII's environments, but I want to see more detail in the environments. Also, more environments.
7) Didn't like Meredith jumping 70 feet and having a sword that sounded like a lightsaber. The glowing I had no problem with since lyrium has been told to us to glow and it's enchanted into armor. My only main gripe with the lyrium idol is how poorly it was implemented.
That's all I can remember since my post was deleted.
B.S. are DA2's deep roads better than DA:O's. I would get my DA2 vs. DA:O Bownammar/Dead Trenches comparison pics out but I'm too lazy to do so. DA:O's felt barren, lifeless but really felt like going through long abandoned territories with a massive sense of scale whereas DA2's was just generic caves with a bit of shiny spikes (lyrium) sticking out now and then.
Champion armour set was awful too, those goddamn spikes. wtf happened to DA:O's "lets make armour look fancy but not flat out insane" idea? Never for one second did I think while playing DA:O that the designs were extreme, but with DA2 I just kept thinking "why the f*ck would someone make stuff that looks like this? how the f*ck are these spikes going to serve any purpose whatsoever besides "to look cool" which they fail at anyway?"
#15
Posté 22 octobre 2011 - 11:16
twincast
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QFT 100%. Once more you make me ponder whether I should just add a big fatBrockololly wrote...
I really don't think any of the designs in DA2 are necessarily more detailed than anything in Origins. Certainly some of the weapons and armor in DA 2 are more over the top and flashy, but they end up looking absolutely impractical and ridiculous. Like the Champion armor being laden with spikes in every conceivable place. Who in the world would even try to design or wear something like that?
Or the weapons being ridiculously oversized. That was an issue in Origins that only seems to have gotten worse in DA2 when combined with the more inane designs.
I like it when you can look at armor or weapons in a game and think that it would be plausible for somebody to make them or actually use them. Like most of the armor/weapons in The Witcher 2- they're not oversized and the armor almost always looks very functional. You don't have insanely oversized weapons, but you still have unique looking and detailed weapons that can actually be sheathed and don't simply float on your back.
With the environments, again, I don't think DA2's were very detailed at all. Thats not to say Origins' were great, but IMO, they were better than DA2- they had more atmosphere. I know in one of the early interviews, the devs made specific mention of the environments lacking detail and being more sparse was an intended design decision with the art style. To me, it just made the world look boring, dead and lifeless.
Ultimately, I think the art style change was completely unnecessary and poorly done. Origins' art needed some refinement and tweaking to be sure, but I think most of it was in the department of technical improvements so that they could more faithfully implement the art designs into in game assets which more closely matched the art. Combined with even the lackluster technical improvements, like the bizarre facemorph system and lackluster lighting yet again, and I just found DA2's visuals to be a bit of a mess.
to my signature. Oh, and it was actually a number of (especially early) interviews in which they were all proud about their use of "negative space" in general (and lack of books "nobody reads" in particular).twincast likes thisBrockololly wrote...
Modifié par twincast, 22 octobre 2011 - 11:17 .
#16
Posté 22 octobre 2011 - 05:42
PPR223
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Dragons Age Origins designs without a doubt, I have always despised the jrpg style and will never intentionally buy a game consisting of it. Dragon Age 2 I bought expecting it to have a somewhat similar design to DA:O, it was quite annoying when I found that a large amount of the designs were influenced by jrpg.
It is quite a selling point for me, and if Dragon Age 3 is not returned to a somewhat Origins style design, then I cannot see me buying it. Unfortunate as I like the rpg genre, but I just cannot play a game with ridiculous designs.
Spikes, weird/ridiculous designs, oversizing all has to go in my opinion.
It is quite a selling point for me, and if Dragon Age 3 is not returned to a somewhat Origins style design, then I cannot see me buying it. Unfortunate as I like the rpg genre, but I just cannot play a game with ridiculous designs.
Spikes, weird/ridiculous designs, oversizing all has to go in my opinion.
#17
Posté 22 octobre 2011 - 08:53
Tempest_
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I didn't really mind the design of the second game. There were some improvements and I think other things were a step back. I felt the environments in origins were more atmospheric but that might be due to the fact that they weren't continuously reused.
The only thing I truly disliked about the Dragon Age II design was the Darkspawn revamp. I felt that they were much more monsterous in origins.
The only thing I truly disliked about the Dragon Age II design was the Darkspawn revamp. I felt that they were much more monsterous in origins.
Modifié par Quote the Raven, 22 octobre 2011 - 08:55 .
#18
Posté 23 octobre 2011 - 10:58
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I have been thinking about this issue of changing art direction from game to game. And at first I thought you might get bored from seeing the same style all over. But actually no! Different cultures in Thedas will of course lead to different designs and environment. But what I am trying to put my finger on here is the consistency and depth of the underlying concept of the art and design. Like Brockololly wrote; Origins had a great feel, it would have been nice to see that concept tweaked, improved and more detailed, and finally adjusted the base concept to how the Free Marches look like. Instead Dragon Age started leaning more towards a kind of cartoonish manga style for me. Does that make sense as a description? I am not all that into Manga and don't know much, but Fenris is a perfect example of this. I am sure some people thought he was cool. Personally I thought he looked like a cool ninja from Street Fighter or something. He became too much of a stereotypical revenge driven character for me. And the design - even if not intended so - gave even more fuel to not taking him seriously. When the moment came when he sided with the Templars, I was happy that he disappeared from my game.
My point is, yes renewal, yes tweaking, but where is the underlying concept? And as to that underlying concept, practical, functional, neat, straightforward is what I enjoyed in Origins in some instances (not all, some weapons and armor was oversized there too for example). DA2 had a few things that worked for me as well but a lot has gone towards even more (I don't want to say unrealistic, because it is a fantasy game, hence why I use words like functional, neat, sober) over elaborated designs and almost cartoonish style for me.
Take note!! I realized I have written somber when I meant sober in some posts. Although somber is a word that quite fits into Dragon Age actually. I don't know if gloomy and depressive is the right atmosphere but definitely the dark harsh reality of things is a common theme in Dragon Age for me, and this could be reflected more in the concept of the art as well. Origins had this connection between idea/atmosphere and the design, not 100% but more than DA2 in my eyes. Although graphics did improve in DA2, design still needs more thought and taste I think.
My point is, yes renewal, yes tweaking, but where is the underlying concept? And as to that underlying concept, practical, functional, neat, straightforward is what I enjoyed in Origins in some instances (not all, some weapons and armor was oversized there too for example). DA2 had a few things that worked for me as well but a lot has gone towards even more (I don't want to say unrealistic, because it is a fantasy game, hence why I use words like functional, neat, sober) over elaborated designs and almost cartoonish style for me.
Take note!! I realized I have written somber when I meant sober in some posts. Although somber is a word that quite fits into Dragon Age actually. I don't know if gloomy and depressive is the right atmosphere but definitely the dark harsh reality of things is a common theme in Dragon Age for me, and this could be reflected more in the concept of the art as well. Origins had this connection between idea/atmosphere and the design, not 100% but more than DA2 in my eyes. Although graphics did improve in DA2, design still needs more thought and taste I think.
