170 réponses à ce sujet

[armass]

Is Shepard a Mary Sue/Gary Stu kind of character?

[Sgt Stryker]

I personally don't hold this point of view, but a lot of people argue that Liara is a Mary Sue and Shepard is a Gary Stu.

[armass]

Shepard certainly has done alot more than any other being in ME universe, he's killed the collectors, one reaper, Saren Arterius the galaxys top spectre, The shadowbroker and his army, the geth heretics and hundreds of soldiers, mercs and pirates. Wow... This kind of power seems kinda Mary Sueish

And he seems to have these magical powers of persuasion that changes evryones opinions around him. Almost a Jedi mindtrick, except it's not.

Modifié par armass, 21 octobre 2011 - 03:20 .

[-Skorpious-]

Misinterpreted the thread, sorry. =p

Modifié par -Skorpious-, 21 octobre 2011 - 03:06 .

[LOLandStuff]

Kahlee Sanders.

[IndomitusRex]

I don't think that Shepard qualifies as a Mary Sue, as his/her actions have some pretty heavy consequences. My Shepard sacrificed the Council in order to defeat Sovereign (for me it was a tactical decision, not a vengeful one). Yes, this resulted in victory, and an elevated role for humanity in the galaxy, but at the cost of severely alienating a lot of other species. In Arrival you hold off the Reaper invasion, but you have to sacrifice hundreds of thousands of lives, which you presumably go on trial for in ME3.

There's a fine line between heroic character and Mary Sue, but I think as long as the hero has flaws and his actions have consequences he can avoid this trope.

[StarcloudSWG]

None of them.

By definition, a "mary sue" is a *fanfiction* character or an author-insert character written into an existing universe. Bioware is still writing the Mass Effect series.

I suppose a case might be made for SHEPARD to be a "mary sue", but it wouldn't be an RPG if the player didn't have some control over the character's reactions.

Modifié par StarcloudSWG, 21 octobre 2011 - 03:22 .

[BatmanPWNS]

I made sure my Shep ain't a Stu/Sue by failing to save Wrex and losing Miranda's trust.

[SnowHeart1]

Given that a lot of the Renegade options aren't very Mary Sue like and you have the option of a pretty dark and ruthless background story, no, Shepard is not necessarily a Mary Sue, although the player can turn him/her into one. Otherwise, s/he's just a heroic character, which is not necessarily a Mary Sue unless you consider any hero to be as such.

As for the other characters... I'd have said Liara circa ME was a Mary Sue, but not quite as much in ME2. Maybe Jacob (just in the sense I don't see many flaws in him). If a Mary Sue is a sense of personal wish fulfillment and a personal ideal, I could also see a game designer thinking of an ideal person as Legion-esque (i.e., all logic, consensus building, peace-maker, slightly misunderstood, but oh so deadly). So that's a possibility, but maybe not in the traditional sense of being a Mary Sue.

[Shepard Lives]

Depends on the Shepard. Duh.

[DaringMoosejaw]

Eh, the definition all-too-often skews toward, 'Someone I don't like who bad things should happen to.'

[The Interloper]

Not really. Except for maybe shep, nobody is anywhere near as bad as Dirk Pitt or Richard Rahl.

[D.Kain]

There are no perfect characters in ME universe they all have major flaws, Shepard included.

[Mims]

So is Luke Skywalker. Not all tropes are bad, what matters is the execution and development of the character.

There is also a big difference between a video game character [who is the 'playable' person] and a NPC. Shepard has flaws if you want to read into them, or you can indulge your natural Author-Avatarring tendency. Any player character you can put words into the mouth of is going to fall into Suedom if you play them like one.

Modifié par Mims, 21 octobre 2011 - 05:05 .

[naledgeborn]

Liara.

[Arkitekt]

Yep, Liara the archaeologist, Liara the asari commando leader who threatens everyone, Liara the super uber biotic godess, Liara the Shadow Broker.... kinda streching the character... (not that I dislike it)

[Sebby]

Arkitekt wrote...

Yep, Liara the archaeologist, Liara the asari commando leader who threatens everyone, Liara the super uber biotic godess, Liara the Shadow Broker.... kinda streching the character... (not that I dislike it)

Yeah, the socially inept bookworm hermit with no military training that the game wants us to believe is just as capable as battle hardened military veterans like Ashley,Wrex,Garrus and Kaidan,as if it wasn't enough that she's related to Saren's second in command AND has the brilliance to figure out where to go (Ilos).

She's the series' analogue to a 10 year old JRPG character who's a teammate "just because".

[JBONE27]

SnowHeart1 wrote...

Given that a lot of the Renegade options aren't very Mary Sue like and you have the option of a pretty dark and ruthless background story, no, Shepard is not necessarily a Mary Sue, although the player can turn him/her into one. Otherwise, s/he's just a heroic character, which is not necessarily a Mary Sue unless you consider any hero to be as such.

As for the other characters... I'd have said Liara circa ME was a Mary Sue, but not quite as much in ME2. Maybe Jacob (just in the sense I don't see many flaws in him). If a Mary Sue is a sense of personal wish fulfillment and a personal ideal, I could also see a game designer thinking of an ideal person as Legion-esque (i.e., all logic, consensus building, peace-maker, slightly misunderstood, but oh so deadly). So that's a possibility, but maybe not in the traditional sense of being a Mary Sue.

 

I would like to disagree about Jacob and Liara.  Liara frequantly faints, gets herself trapped, and nobody trusts her
(until you kill Benezia).  That doesn't seem very Mary Sueish.  As for Jacob, if you chose to romance him, he's creepy as hell.  Seriously, "heavy risk, but the prize,"  sounds like a date-rapist's line.

[JBONE27]

LOLandStuff wrote...

Kahlee Sanders.

Seems like the most likely canidate.

[SandTrout]

Define "Mary Sue" first.

[Khambilo]

SandTrout wrote...

Define "Mary Sue" first.

Straight from wikipedia:








A Mary Sue (sometimes just Sue), in literary criticism and
particularly in fanfiction, is a fictional character with overly idealized and
hackneyed mannerisms, lacking noteworthy flaws, and primarily functioning as a
wish-fulfillment fantasy for the author or reader. It is generally accepted as
a character whose positive aspects overwhelm their other traits until they
become one-dimensional.


Liara, Gillian Grayson, and Kahlee Sanders seem to fit this description to some degree.




EDIT: Removed wikipedia hyperlinks that i forgot to delete...

Modifié par Khambilo, 21 octobre 2011 - 05:30 .

[Labrev]

Thane.

Worst he ever did is "abandon" his son (lol, abandon him.... to his relatives), but even that was for reasons of "I didn't want him to become like me" kind of things. Otherwise, he's basically a character made for girls by girls, the perfect-man. He's smart, reads philosophers in his spare time, isn't thrown by anything ever, he goes around in a leather coat, humble, spiritual... it's just too much. Even his being an assassin is negated by the fact that he seems to target bad people only.

Really, in terms of believability, he was the least to me. At least Jacob who I hate feels like an actual person, this is just not a very good character. How about having him make a big mistake in his life, like if he really abandoned his wife over some serious fight or something, then came back to realize his wife was killed and he couldn't find his son at all.

That would've made him a lot more human. Instead, he's more of a try-hard attempt at making a new mascot for the ME series. Everything about his character is forced.


Liara has some issues, but none inherently very big. I actually think she became more of a Mary Sue in ME2 when they tried to make her less of one by becoming more ruthless.

[Asari_Party]

SandTrout wrote...

Define "Mary Sue" first.

Female character I don't like.

[SandTrout]

Liara, Gillian Grayson, and Kahlee Sanders seem to fit this description to some degree.

Liara is very naive in ME1 and borderline psychotic in ME2. Gillian Grayson is autistic. Kahlee is a relatively normal person caught up in events way beyond her skills.

David Anderson is more of a Gary Stu any any of those 3.

Depending on how Shepard is played, s/he could qualify as a Mary Sue/Gary Stu

Roxy12 wrote...

SandTrout wrote...

Define "Mary Sue" first.

Female character I don't like.

This is why I asked the question. A lot of people don't understand the meanings of the words they are using.