170 réponses à ce sujet

[Beerfish]

Shepard is Archie
Ashley is Betty
Liara is Veronica
The elusive man is Mr. Weatherby
Kaiden is Jughead

[mineralica]

Best candidate would be Liara. Special origin (pureblood) - check, her race hates her for that - check, parent issues (not really counts since majority of team have them) - "my mother doesn't pay attention and my father is unknown" - check, ton of not justified abilities - archaeologist who did more than all her race before, commando, expert in biotics, can hack security on enemy bases, manages to be top information broker - check, potential LI and unevitable friend- check, constantly saves the day - check, never took any decisions which led to nontoken bad outcome - check (any idea why SB kept Feron?), absolute top armor - check.

Book examples are tricky since it looks like Mr. Karpyshyn doesn't care much about giving much detalisation to characters, but even among this tune Kahlee Sanders (rare looks, special parents, all characters care about her, AI and biotic and battle expert, every straight male character has a feelings for her) and Kai Leng (Killed krogan with a knife? Hm. Ignored two shots at knee caps and managed to get to the ship? Hmmm???) look Sueish. Well, maybe the last one is just overpowered... or just Villain Sue.

[Dean_the_Young]

Kai would be closer to villain sue, but only one of those (the kneecapping) is over the top even in lore. Killing a Krogan with a knife is an impressive feat, but it's hardly an impossibility by the standard of the lore.

Kahlee Sanders fits many of the characteristics, as does Liara.

Jack could come close to a victim-Sue, but she isn't a major part of any story so is not a dominating character.


Paragon Shepard comes close enough to space-Jesus to qualify if you take the game at face value. Plenty of people play their Shepards as such.

[Dean_the_Young]

Mims wrote...

So is Luke Skywalker. Not all tropes are bad, what matters is the execution and development of the character.

Luke Skywalker avoids it (in the movies) by the fact that his flaws of impatience, ego, and haste directly contribute to significant bad things happening to him and others. While he is a character who overcomes his flaws (mostly) through the development, Revenge of the Sith was pretty much cutting him down to size.

[Super_Cat]

Miranda was genetically engineered by her father to be a Mary Sue, sorta.

Though she really isn't one in terms of the story, if anything she's a deconstructed Mary Sue.

Modifié par Super_Cat, 21 octobre 2011 - 07:24 .

[Pockles]

DaringMoosejaw wrote...

Eh, the definition all-too-often skews toward, 'Someone I don't like who bad things should happen to.'

I agree with this guy.

Modifié par Pockles, 21 octobre 2011 - 07:26 .

[Bcuz]

Shepard; Gary/Mary Sue, but that's more or less unavoidable to keep RP freedom alive.
I honestly cant think of another character without some sort of major failing/flaw, though Miranda and Jacob come close.

[Dean_the_Young]

Super_Cat wrote...

Miranda was genetically engineered by her father to be a Mary Sue, sorta.

Though she really isn't one in terms of the story, if anything she's a deconstructed Mary Sue.

Her flaws are also rather heavy and made abundantly clear. She certainly isn't someone beloved by (nearly) all, in-universe or out.

Hell, she can't even manage a stable relationship bar possibly Shepard.

[Tyrannosaurus Rex]

Dean_the_Young wrote...

Mims wrote...

So is Luke Skywalker. Not all tropes are bad, what matters is the execution and development of the character.

Luke Skywalker avoids it (in the movies) by the fact that his flaws of impatience, ego, and haste directly contribute to significant bad things happening to him and others. While he is a character who overcomes his flaws (mostly) through the development, Revenge of the Sith was pretty much cutting him down to size.

What does Revenge of the sith have to do with Luke Skywalker?

Modifié par Lizardviking, 21 octobre 2011 - 07:48 .

[Dean_the_Young]

Lizardviking wrote...

Dean_the_Young wrote...

Mims wrote...

So is Luke Skywalker. Not all tropes are bad, what matters is the execution and development of the character.

Luke Skywalker avoids it (in the movies) by the fact that his flaws of impatience, ego, and haste directly contribute to significant bad things happening to him and others. While he is a character who overcomes his flaws (mostly) through the development, Revenge of the Sith was pretty much cutting him down to size.

What does Revenge of the sith ahve to do with Luke Skywalker?

Gah!

Meant 'Empire Strikes Back.'

Oops.

[Tyrannosaurus Rex]

Dean_the_Young wrote...

Lizardviking wrote...

Dean_the_Young wrote...

Mims wrote...

So is Luke Skywalker. Not all tropes are bad, what matters is the execution and development of the character.

Luke Skywalker avoids it (in the movies) by the fact that his flaws of impatience, ego, and haste directly contribute to significant bad things happening to him and others. While he is a character who overcomes his flaws (mostly) through the development, Revenge of the Sith was pretty much cutting him down to size.

What does Revenge of the sith ahve to do with Luke Skywalker?

Gah!

Meant 'Empire Strikes Back.'

Oops.

I am dissapointed that you managed to mistake one of the best movies ever with that giant dog turd of a movie.

[Dean_the_Young]

It's star wars. Who cares anymore?

[Tyrannosaurus Rex]

Dean_the_Young wrote...

It's star wars. Who cares anymore?

Mmm. Not a star wars fan personally, but it still has a large fanbase. Granted star wars is not really the thing it used to be.

Modifié par Lizardviking, 21 octobre 2011 - 07:55 .

[Pockles]

Dean_the_Young wrote...
Gah!

Meant 'Empire Strikes Back.'

Oops.

You should know better.

[dreman9999]

LOLandStuff wrote...

Kahlee Sanders.

Kahlee Sanders because she has no true faults.

[dreman9999]

Super_Cat wrote...

Miranda was genetically engineered by her father to be a Mary Sue, sorta.

Though she really isn't one in terms of the story, if anything she's a deconstructed Mary Sue.

Miranda hastoo many issues to be a mary sue.

[Beerfish]

dreman9999 wrote...

LOLandStuff wrote...

Kahlee Sanders.

Kahlee Sanders because she has no true faults.

Other than being naive as can be and dumber than a sack of rocks.

[Dean_the_Young]

Pockles wrote...

Dean_the_Young wrote...
Gah!

Meant 'Empire Strikes Back.'

Oops.

You should know better.

I do know better.

[kregano]

Beerfish wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

LOLandStuff wrote...

Kahlee Sanders.

Kahlee Sanders because she has no true faults.

Other than being naive as can be and dumber than a sack of rocks.

Those don't really work as character flaws because you can tell that the author put that in there just to have some sort of way to prevent her from being perceived as perfect and as a crutch for getting the plot going (particulaly in Ascension). Being handed an idiot ball is not a character flaw- it's a sign that the author has no other way to advance the story or is lazy.

[Dean_the_Young]

Mind you, Sanders' 'idiot' moment was pretty much a specific line in a conversation with the Reapers, to let the author introduce them in person.

[Beerfish]

kregano wrote...

Beerfish wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

LOLandStuff wrote...

Kahlee Sanders.

Kahlee Sanders because she has no true faults.

Other than being naive as can be and dumber than a sack of rocks.

Those don't really work as character flaws because you can tell that the author put that in there just to have some sort of way to prevent her from being perceived as perfect and as a crutch for getting the plot going (particulaly in Ascension). Being handed an idiot ball is not a character flaw- it's a sign that the author has no other way to advance the story or is lazy.

They are flaws none the less.  I don't disagree with what you say but when I thought of her in both books I shook my head a number of times thinking she was intelligent but with a wisdom score of 3.

[Beerfish]

Dean_the_Young wrote...

Mind you, Sanders' 'idiot' moment was pretty much a specific line in a conversation with the Reapers, to let the author introduce them in person.

She was no brainiac in the 1st book easily getting hoodwinked by a 'lover'
Just as dumb in the 2nd book with some of her overly emotional decisions that put many in jeopardy, not just her.

[capn233]

None of the characters are.

Agree that Liara may be the closest in game.

As far as Sanders goes... I don't see how she has all that many exceptional or rare qualities compared to contemporaries.

[bobdooly]

Liara is, for reasons previously given.

Thane is, for reasons previously given.

I never read the books, so I don't know about the others.

Miranda isn't, as you can tell where her flaws are, such as being a control freak and loyalist to the point of alienating potential allies. She wanted to put a control chip in Shepard's brain and was only stopped by TIM.

Paragon Shepard isn't because it's a role playing game. PCs have to be a big part of the story for the game to any fun at all. And, it's not like Liara where he was some guy with no combat training that saved the galaxy, he is from the highest possible trained and skilled human special forces group and was in the right place at the right time. Nothing more.