103 réponses à ce sujet

[Feanor_II]

I really disliked How combat was implemented on DA2, I played on PC and I think that the over-speedy system kills the tactic combat and a propper party management, but I read many people claiming the opposite..... I tested the console demo and (Although I consider it to be a mediocre hack & slash) it makes sense, this combat is much more designed to be played that way as a kind of God of War, directly controlling the character and it's movements rather with keyboard + mouse, select + click + command.....

So I was curious if those of us who critice the new system are mainly PC players who find uncofortable this system for a party based combat with selection and commands with a pointer and those who praise it are console players who find better the more action/H&S system for their gamepad's sticks and buttons.

You can vote here

http://social.biowar...81/polls/25952/

Thanks for your participation

Aditional complementary poll on eroeru's request
social.bioware.com/3254914/polls/26088/

Modifié par Feanor_II, 25 octobre 2011 - 04:47 .

[Bigdoser]

I personally prefer DA2 combat over DAO and I am on the pc.

[eroeru]

Good poll!

Playing on the PC and found the combat uninteresting.

[HanErlik]

I played DA2 on pc and I can say it was the worst combat in a RPG. I couldn't find a logial reason to remove tactical camera on PC.

[craigdolphin]

Yeah, I play on PC, and I responded that combat has worsened....but that's an overly simplistic view of things.

Some aspects of combat have improved, and some have worsened, IMO.

Better?
Avoiding charges by ogres is possible now
Overall pace of combat is better

Worse?
No tactical camera. (Worst. Decision. Ever. [To date])
Auto-attack does not re-engage after knockdown
Auto-attack does not have an auto-targeting feature when the current mob dies (especially a nuisance given the zillions of wimps on the field of battle now)
Overly exagerated animations
Too many weak opponents in encounters makes opponents seem....disposable, wimpy, pathetic...

The end result of these last two is a distinct lack of 'gravitas' in combat. Why fear these bad guys if one guy can wipe out three dozen before breakfast while performing comedic interpretive break-dance moves? There isn't any tension induced in the player by the sight of a group of enemies like there was in Origins.

Same:
Pausable combat. (Thank the maker)

Modifié par craigdolphin, 21 octobre 2011 - 08:46 .

[Xerxes52]

I like the new combat mechanics overall, but there are some things I don't care for. I think craigdolphin hit the nail on the head with the issues.

For opponents, there are way too many Critter Rank enemies in most battles, I think jumping most of them up to Normal Rank or higher would alleviate the situation. The story DLCs greatly improved upon this.

Animations are too over the top imo. DA:O's animations were decent, something similar to that (but worked into the increased combat speed) would be great. Also, adding those canned "finisher" animations in after some kills would be much appreciated.

I really loved the reworked ability trees, although the tactics could get an expansion. I would love a general "Ally: Cursed/Debuffed" tactic, or "Ally: Surrounded by X Enemies".

craigdolphin wrote...
Auto-attack does not re-engage after knockdown
Auto-attack does not have an auto-targeting feature when the current mob dies (especially a nuisance given the zillions of wimps on the field of battle now)

To add on to this, the controlled player should automatically close the distance when making a basic attack, or using an ability like in DA:O.

Modifié par Xerxes52, 21 octobre 2011 - 10:28 .

[Ju13es]

I had no problem with Origin's combat system when I first played it. After playing DA2, even though I do not like the unnecessary acrobatics and really fast movements, (Kicking a flask instead of throwing it? Seriously?) I cannot for the life of me go back and play Origins without hating how slow it is.

No wonder its a 50 hour+ game, if it had DA2 style fighting, im sure you could shave 5 hours or more off that.


So I would say in responsiveness and in the fun factor it has improved, but its a visual offense.

Modifié par Ju13es, 23 octobre 2011 - 11:25 .

[A Crusty Knight Of Colour]

Filament wrote...

I found the big battles lasted a lot longer in DA2 than in DAO, despite the faster combat. Of course, that could just be because I suck.

It's the excessive HP bloat on some of the bosses.

Case in point: Battle w/ Loghain compared to Battle w/ Arishok.

[Morroian]

I play on PC and overall I think its better.

Areas for improvement are:
Restoration of the top down view
Flashy combat animations could be toned down especially for rogues and the 'mage dance'
More complex encounter design, this area is already improving based on Legacy and MOTA

The pace could be slowed down a tad but not by much.

[Theagg]

Much preferred the DA 2 style of combat. It's closer to 'reality' in speed (combat animation style) than Origins was. Everyone in Origins seemed to be swinging their swords through thick treacle for example.

It can still be played tactically (that's what the pause is for) and just looks so much better. And I play on the PC.

Some have criticised the gymnastic leaps and bounds of rogues in DA 2 as being unfeasible but for me they still exist within the same universe that Origins set up. The difference is you just see more of it, the gymnastics in Origins were usually only fully shown in finishing moves for example. Like when Alistair, in full plate armour from a standing position leaps 10 to 12 ft into the air to plant his sword in an Ogre's face. Or the crazy gymnastics and acrobatics as Alistair rides a dragon for the final blow.

Rogues leaps and bounds in DA2 exist perfectly happily with Alistiars antics, after all, rogues in the Dragon Age world are meant to be agile and gymnastic, alistair isn't, so if he could leap high and gyrate in such a manner, Isabela and Hawke rogue should have no problem whatsoever..

When you consider how high and how fast real world gymnasts can leap and tumble with a bit of a run up, it doesn't take much to push that into the more flamboyant fantasy moves of DA 2.

Examples..

Modifié par Theagg, 24 octobre 2011 - 01:47 .

[jsamlaw]

I hope DA3 is:

DA:O character choice (races, backgrounds, etc.)
DA:O story depth (though choosing to side with "factions" in DA2 was okay, just poorly implemented)
DA:O party member interaction (with the addition of the more humorous DA2 random convos)
DA2 combat
DA2 skill trees

Modifié par jsamlaw, 24 octobre 2011 - 02:02 .

[Salaya]

It was worse than origins, indeed. But I don't think is a bad system. It has some good ideas; mixing both concepts correctly would make a great experience.

What I really wish is that they forget about childish animations.

Modifié par Salaya, 24 octobre 2011 - 02:54 .

[FaeQueenCory]

craigdolphin wrote...

Yeah, I play on PC, and I responded that combat has worsened....but that's an overly simplistic view of things.

Some aspects of combat have improved, and some have worsened, IMO.

Better?
Avoiding charges by ogres is possible now
Overall pace of combat is better

Worse?
No tactical camera. (Worst. Decision. Ever. [To date])
Auto-attack does not re-engage after knockdown
Auto-attack does not have an auto-targeting feature when the current mob dies (especially a nuisance given the zillions of wimps on the field of battle now)
Overly exagerated animations
Too many weak opponents in encounters makes opponents seem....disposable, wimpy, pathetic...

The end result of these last two is a distinct lack of 'gravitas' in combat. Why fear these bad guys if one guy can wipe out three dozen before breakfast while performing comedic interpretive break-dance moves? There isn't any tension induced in the player by the sight of a group of enemies like there was in Origins.

Same:
Pausable combat. (Thank the maker)

I play on the PC, and I agree with everything Craigdolphin said except one thing.... I actually kinda like the mage animations.... *blasphemy!*

I mean, it wouldn't work for Wynne in Origins (grandma twirls her staff like a pro?), but it always reminded me of how Morrigan was in the Sacred Ashes trailer.
But aside from the Mage animations... Rogue dual-wield, Warrior S&S, and ESPECIALLY Warrior 2handed animations... were just too over the top!
I can't really tell the difference between archery... until stuff gets close.

[aznricepuff]

I play on PC and I think combat in DA2 is a mixed bag.

On the one hand, I do like the faster pace of combat and the fact that attacks and abilities are more reactive now (I used to facepalm every time in DAO when enemies just ran past my arcane warrior as he slowly tried to swing his sword at them). I also like the idea of CCCs, though I think the implementation could have been better. The fancier animations were meh. Some of them (like the faster 2H sword swings) were probably necessary to sync animations with the front-loaded damage points, so I can get behind that. The rogue animations might be a little over the top, but like someone already said, so is jumping on a dragon and riding it while stabbing it in the skull.

The single biggest fail of the DA2 combat system is the lack of a top down camera. I don't think you necessarily even need a fully isometric camera mode, but just the ability to zoom out farther so you can see the entire battlefield at once. Also the fact that there were just so many trash mobs. Though this was a problem in DA:O (and pretty much every bioware game) as well, so I don't fault DA2 specifically for that.

Overall, I think combat in DA2 was improved over DA:O, just not in all aspects. Bring back the tactical camera (or at least let us zoom out farther), get rid of the endless trash mobs, flesh out the CCC system some more, and I think Bioware will have a great combat system for DA3.

[Joy Divison]

Trash mobs having thousands of hit points whereas the heroes have 180 is rather immersion breaking. If your cone of cold catches Varric and 3 bad guys, you'll one-shot Varric yet only take about 10% of the mobs health.

[Travie]

The lack of a top down perspective and the fact that your companions wouldn't do what they were told many times (like hold position), made tactics much harder then in the original.

The combat (at times) was more fun and fast paced with good animations, but they lost MUCH more then they gained.

[Anyroad2]

I dont understand where all the complaints about weakling enemies in DA2 comes from. There are tons and tons of weakling, insta-killed enemies in DA:O.

[alex90c]

Anyroad2 wrote...

I dont understand where all the complaints about weakling enemies in DA2 comes from. There are tons and tons of weakling, insta-killed enemies in DA:O.

DA2

*whirlwind*

*50 mooks dead*

DA:O

*whirlwind*

*mooks wounded but continue whacking you*

[Anyroad2]

Exaggeration is awesome.

I remember that in DAO when you went back to Redcliff that pretty much all the Darkspawn there died if you so much as touched them. The only ones that I remember actually having to fight were the Ogre and the Emissary.

Redcliff isnt the last or the first time this happens in DAO either.

Modifié par Anyroad2, 24 octobre 2011 - 07:16 .

[Salaya]

DA2

*whirlwind*

*50 mooks dead*
*200 mooks come from nowhere*

DA:O

*whirlwind*

*mooks wounded but continue whacking you*

fixed 

[alex90c]

Anyroad2 wrote...

Exaggeration is awesome.

I remember that in DAO when you went back to Redcliff that pretty much all the Darkspawn there died if you so much as touched them. The only ones that I remember actually having to fight were the Ogre and the Emissary.

Redcliff isnt the last or the first time this happens in DAO either.

That's only when you return to Redcliffe and during the battle for Denerim, everywhere else darkspawn have their normal levels of HP.  On the other hand, in DA2 you're capable constantly of one-shotting mooks during the entire game.

[edeheusch]

I play on PC and I prefer the combat system of DAO by far. "The pace could be sped up a tad but not by much."

The only good part of the DA2 combat is the new spell and talent trees.

And don't speak about skill trees, they have removed the skills in DA2 (probably because it wasn't enough combat oriented and it could have turn away the players that don't like RPG).

[Zjarcal]

PC gamer, voted the first option. I love the DA2 combat a lot more than the DAO combat. I fail to see why one game is more "gamepad" oriented than the other, seeing how I find myself using the "keyboard + mouse, select + click + command....." thing over and over in DA2.

That's not to say it's perfect, and this...

Joy Divison wrote...

Trash mobs having thousands of hit points whereas the heroes have 180 is rather immersion breaking. If your cone of cold catches Varric and 3 bad guys, you'll one-shot Varric yet only take about 10% of the mobs health.

... is something I agree with. The inflation of numbers for enemy hit points was not a good move imo.

About one shotting mooks, I saw that almost equally on both games.

Modifié par Zjarcal, 24 octobre 2011 - 08:56 .

[Master Shiori]

I prefer DA2 combat.

It's faster than Origins but still has the same tactical depth. The problem was in encounter design, with enemies having a a truck load of hitpoints, and every fight featuring waves dropping in from above.

Thankfully, a number of these issues have been addressed in Legacy and MotA.