348 réponses à ce sujet

[Bogsnot1]

Ricinator wrote...
last time i checked my ideas are pretty reasonable and rational. they do AI for campaign so why can't they add the option for co-op for those how would want to be able to continue the trilogy over and over?

sure MP is for people but why can't you have both or even mixed co-op games? <------gimme a good reason other than, Meh its MP for a reason.

If you want to play the trilogy over and over again, theres nothign stopping you. You dont have to play the co-op missions, as you can get the same level of "galactic readiness" in SP mode. In other words, you can either do those missions with Shepard and gang, or do them co-op with friends.

Now do you understand? "Bots" are already present, in the SP mode, in the form of your squadmates. Why waste time and money duplicating the resources? There is nothing reasonable, nor rational, about this.

[Genshie]

Ricinator wrote...

Bogsnot1 wrote...

Ricinator wrote...

Bogsnot1 wrote...
If you want to play missions with AI companions, you can play the SP campaign. If you want to play missions with either solo, or other people, you can do the co-op missions.
If you are so concerned about how hard it will be to do co-op solo, drop the difficulty to casual.
By asking for bots, not only are you effectively asking for extra SP missions, but you are also asking them to redo the squqadmate AI so it can effectively make use of 3 bots, rather than 2. More coding time would be. Required, as well as bug testing, and this would take up valuable time that could be used to make sure the co-op missions are truly balanced.
Montreal ahs enough to do getting co-op ready without having to start to fiddle around with SP components as well.

they only need to make class ai where you would pick which type of bot (vanguard or whatever) and that ai would work like any other vanguard ai... and you wouldn't have to use them they would be optional where the host decides if you want any or 1,2,3. just an option for those of us who will play this game for 4+ years and want to be able to multiplayer longer than 6 months-1 year when it starts to drop off

Playing co-op is also entirely optional, as you can get the exact same outcome playing solo as you can playing co-op. If you want to use AI controlled bots for those missions, play it in the SP campaign.
Making a specific class AI would be even more difficult than making current sqaudmate AI, especially with the infamous "cant get a lock" charge bug.
You also apparantly failed to notice the key reason why they shouldnt.. Here, let me repeat myself, even though I hate doing it.

 
Montreal has enough to do getting co-op ready without having to start to fiddle around with SP components as well.

To put it simply, if you want AI, play SP. If you want to play solo, or with other people, play MP. Thus far, you have not given any rational reasoning as to why they should spend the time and effort implementing SP-based AI into teh MP mode, except to give you extra SP missions.

last time i checked my ideas are pretty reasonable and rational. they do AI for campaign so why can't they add the option for co-op for those how would want to be able to continue the trilogy over and over?

sure MP is for people but why can't you have both or even mixed co-op games? <------gimme a good reason other than, Meh its MP for a reason.

 But that is the only reason one should need to give. You don't understand this new multiplayer mode has had to change some of the core of certain class mechanics almost completely (soldier/vanguard mainly), the characters themselves are/will be completely customizable (meaning a randomizer would not work since there would be too many variables that would have to be covered), and you will have zero control over these bots (unlike in SP campaign where you do have some control over them, even more if you are using Kinect). In other words it is just way to much work and the coding/programing would be ridiculous.

Modifié par Genshie, 22 octobre 2011 - 08:00 .

[DarthSliver]

Maybe they can put this as a DLC when they see MP is dying down. Most games with Multiplayer are only good as long as its still the hottest thing to do. The fact that ME3 MP is only Co-Op might show how long it will last in being the hottest thing to play. I support bots but maybe not on disc content, maybe an add-on.

But maybe MP being able to play on casual or normal for a solo run is as far as they are willing to go since they do wanna encourage us to play with other people.

[Ricinator]

Bogsnot1 wrote...

Ricinator wrote...
last time i checked my ideas are pretty reasonable and rational. they do AI for campaign so why can't they add the option for co-op for those how would want to be able to continue the trilogy over and over?

sure MP is for people but why can't you have both or even mixed co-op games? <------gimme a good reason other than, Meh its MP for a reason.

If you want to play the trilogy over and over again, theres nothign stopping you. You dont have to play the co-op missions, as you can get the same level of "galactic readiness" in SP mode. In other words, you can either do those missions with Shepard and gang, or do them co-op with friends.

Now do you understand? "Bots" are already present, in the SP mode, in the form of your squadmates. Why waste time and money duplicating the resources? There is nothing reasonable, nor rational, about this.

i want to play the MP aswell its part of the game and playing solo on easy/medium isn't my idea of fun, so adding the bots for those of us who will continue of ME adventures far into the future seem pretty logical. and they would be optional so why not have in both areas of game.

@genshie
so the bots can have set stats, and be basic versions of there class aslong as i can use them as bullet sponges in insanity i couldn't care less. and as control goes why can't host control 2 of them and have a random person control 3rd? Voice comands may work but lets not go there.

Modifié par Ricinator, 22 octobre 2011 - 08:11 .

[Genshie]

Ricinator wrote...

Bogsnot1 wrote...

Ricinator wrote...
last time i checked my ideas are pretty reasonable and rational. they do AI for campaign so why can't they add the option for co-op for those how would want to be able to continue the trilogy over and over?

sure MP is for people but why can't you have both or even mixed co-op games? <------gimme a good reason other than, Meh its MP for a reason.

If you want to play the trilogy over and over again, theres nothign stopping you. You dont have to play the co-op missions, as you can get the same level of "galactic readiness" in SP mode. In other words, you can either do those missions with Shepard and gang, or do them co-op with friends.

Now do you understand? "Bots" are already present, in the SP mode, in the form of your squadmates. Why waste time and money duplicating the resources? There is nothing reasonable, nor rational, about this.

i want to play the MP aswell its part of the game and playing solo on easy/medium isn't my idea of fun, so adding the bots for those of us who will continue of ME adventures far into the future seem pretty logical. and they would be optional so why not have in both areas of game.

@genshie
so the bots can have set stats, and be basic versions of there class aslong as i can use them as bullet sponges in insanity i couldn't care less. and as control goes why can't host control 2 of them and have a random person control 3rd? Voice comands may work but lets not go there.

You want control over your party play SP campaign. The mechanics for MP Co-op are specifically made for no pausing, no slowing down time, and sole control over one character. Bots would probably die instantly or very fast since you will have no control whatsoever even if they are implemented. The only logical reason I can see bots being implemented are for those who don't have online connection. (These peeps are the only ones I see having any excuse and or reason for asking)

[Bogsnot1]

So you want to play multiplayer in single player mode, with single player resources? Where is the rationale, or reason, behind this "logic"?
Saying "because its part of the game" makes about as much sense as requesting being able to wear your casual outfit into battle "because its part of the game".

[Ricinator]

First off i didn't mean controlling abilities just where to move them around. the bots would be pretty much like the aggressive Ai otherwise. Second, I dont want the Bots strictly to be able to solo all the time. I want them so when the hype dies off i can continue playing the MP the way i want with friends or Bots or both. The Bots would be there to give the MP longevity for those who really truly love ME and will continue playing for years.


sane enough for you?

Modifié par Ricinator, 22 octobre 2011 - 08:29 .

[Homey C-Dawg]

 Ricinator, you should consider turning your poll URL in the OP into a clickable link. People like clicking links. 

Just a suggestion.

[ReshyShira]

So long as the bots are team players and not useless. Personally when it comes to bots I'd prefer a system like republic commando had, where if you went down but they were till up they could revive you.

[Comsky159]

marshalleck wrote...

No bots. There's an entire single-player campaign for the antisocials to play. No need to go catering the multiplayer aspect to them as well.

GO BACK TO COD BIATCH!!!!!
Seriously though, why did you start playing this series if you consider it "antisocial"? I never really found that shouting at people through static into a microphone constitutes proof of social aptitude, in fact I'd propose the opposite if I was feeling cynical. If I feel the need to be social I'll actually talk to people; if not, then I'll pick up a book. I dislike multiplayer because I find this weird hybrid between sociability and immersion abhorrent.

The only real advantage multiplayer has imo is that it provides an opportunity for people to flaunt their egos in front of faceless strangers. yay.

[Ricinator]

@comsky159
on that note For or Against bots?

[Bogsnot1]

Ricinator wrote...
First off i didn't mean controlling abilities just where to move them around. the bots would be pretty much like the aggressive Ai otherwise. Second, I dont want the Bots strictly to be able to solo all the time. I want them so when the hype dies off i can continue playing the MP the way i want with friends or Bots or both. The Bots would be there to give the MP longevity for those who really truly love ME and will continue playing for years. 

sane enough for you?

You have not come up with any rational reason why bots would increase MP longevity.  
If you want to play the MP servers, then you either do it alone, or with friends. If you want to play with "bots", you play SP.
 

[Ricinator]

Bogsnot1 wrote...

Ricinator wrote...
First off i didn't mean controlling abilities just where to move them around. the bots would be pretty much like the aggressive Ai otherwise. Second, I dont want the Bots strictly to be able to solo all the time. I want them so when the hype dies off i can continue playing the MP the way i want with friends or Bots or both. The Bots would be there to give the MP longevity for those who really truly love ME and will continue playing for years. 

sane enough for you?

You have not come up with any rational reason why bots would increase MP longevity.  
If you want to play the MP servers, then you either do it alone, or with friends. If you want to play with "bots", you play SP.
 

so are you just trolling or haven't you read anything previous? For when your friends aren't on or when the hype dies down you can replace some open spots with Bots.... i can't make it simpler than that. Troll away or try to see it from my point of view for once.

Haven't you ever played a game where the people have flocked to something bigger and brighter and leaves the MP empty? go play condemed MP, i'm sure there is somebody still playing that right?

[Comsky159]

Ricinator wrote...

@comsky159
on that note For or Against bots?

Ah yes got caught up in the rant. I would prefer bots certainly because it allows those who aren't particularly keen on multiplayer to emulate the SP experience through it. I don't buy the "waste of resources" argument anymore because many see multiplayer's very inclusion as a waste in itself.

[marshalleck]

Comsky159 wrote...

marshalleck wrote...

No bots. There's an entire single-player campaign for the antisocials to play. No need to go catering the multiplayer aspect to them as well.

GO BACK TO COD BIATCH!!!!!
Seriously though, why did you start playing this series if you consider it "antisocial"? I never really found that shouting at people through static into a microphone constitutes proof of social aptitude, in fact I'd propose the opposite if I was feeling cynical. If I feel the need to be social I'll actually talk to people; if not, then I'll pick up a book. I dislike multiplayer because I find this weird hybrid between sociability and immersion abhorrent.

The only real advantage multiplayer has imo is that it provides an opportunity for people to flaunt their egos in front of faceless strangers. yay.

How can I "go back" to a game I've never played?

Regarding the rest of your post, I've already made use of this here Bioware Social (anti-?) Network to make plans for running co-op with some other people here whom I find agreeable. If that's not being social (in the context of a video game) I don't know what is, and my good Cerberus blood brothers certainly are not "faceless strangers."

So what are you on about again? Oh yeah, just antisocial rambling. Whatever.

Modifié par marshalleck, 22 octobre 2011 - 09:30 .

[Bogsnot1]

I have read this thread, and your previous one, and you seem to be labouring under the false assumption that you NEED to play MP to get the most out of the game, or to get the best possible finish.

You dont. MP is simply an alternative method in which to achieve the same outcome. Emphasis on alternative.

If you want to continue to enjoy playing the game 4 years down the track? Fine, do so. Fire up the SP campaign and you have bost available to help you go through the missions.
You dont want to control the powers of the AI? Then dont. You can even switch off their power usage on the game options so they just end up being simple gunners, and nothing more than that.

You want to enjoy it with your friends? Fire up the co-op side of things and get your friends to join in on the action.

I have given reasons as to why bots would be a bad idea, ranging from time and money wasted, to the added complexity and thus bugs that would be introduced, and yuor response is to show you ignorance on how coding works by stating "they can copy/paste the squad AI".
I have given sound, logical reasons as to why bots are a bad idea.

Give good, solid, logical reasons as to why they should be included, and I'll add my voice to your calling for them to be implemented.
So far, all you have done is said "I want them".

[Lumikki]

It's interesting to see how peoples different needs creates different perspective to look situation.

Having AI bots doesn't hurt at all multi-playing, because it's option to use them or not. Not having does hurt soloing, because content difficulty can be hard for some soloers. At least Bioware has allready sayed that co-op content can be soloed and it's harder. What raise the question of need of AI bots to help players. Does someone here thinks that co-op content should be exclusive for multiplayers in ME3?

Also what is this co-op been alternative options. While it's alternative, it can have different kind of content. Not every player think that end results is all what matters, but they could have need to explore to see all content. Does someone here think that solo player should not see this multiplayer content at all?

As for AI bots to be waste of developers time, I ques that's true based how you look situation, but wasn't hole co-op content waste of developers time in single player game. Point been, in both ways it's same argument, based totally of what kind of content player wants into the game. Because waste of time happens only when you self have no need for the content.

Modifié par Lumikki, 22 octobre 2011 - 09:58 .

[Shia Luck]

Well, I guess bots are not a bad idea in principle, but their incorporation should be way down the list in terms of priority if it something the devs would have to add at this late stage.

In fact, to borrow an argument from the anti-MP whiners, bots should not appear if it diverts resources away from finishing/polishing the SP or MP campaigns as they're designed now.    

Of course, if their implementation has been designed from the start, like MP was, and so are already included then the whole question is moot, and I shall welcome their appearance.

As the OP said...

Ricinator wrote...
It gives us the chance to be able to play as we wish...

.... and more choice in this area is a good thing I think. However, I can't agree with ...

Ricinator wrote...
...with 1 to 3 bots (should scale with difficulty of the mission).

...because this means, at least as far as I understand it (pls correct me if I have misunderstood), a solo run through would be scaled to the same difficulty as a 4 player run through, and this now limits the player choice on how to play the game. Some people will want to solo or 2 player the MP missions because of the increased challenge, and more choice for more people is good.

Also, given that there is no party size scaling system in ME at all, I think it is wildly presumptuous for any of us to assume that this would be a simple thing to implement. Unless it has been included from the very early concept it would appear to require rewriting every single encounter in the MP portion of the game to include a scaling mechanic.

Have fun :happy:

[ReshyShira]

Bots are good if you lack people to play with, it sucks to be effectively locked out of content because you don't have friends who own a gaming computer and are interested (and own) mass effect 3.

[Lumikki]

Shia Luck wrote...

Of course, if their implementation has been designed from the start, like MP was, and so are already included then the whole question is moot, and I shall welcome their appearance.

This is actually interesting comment. It was long time that we did not even know is there anykind of MP in ME3. Even Bioware had sayed that they have had difficulties to know how to get MP work with ME3 design, but they do consider it in future. After that, they pretty much avoided all question related any MP gameplay for long time. Then they announced that game will be delayed allmost 6 month. Now we hear a lot of co-op gameplay. So, was the delay really because polishing the product like they sayed or because they finaly figured how to make co-op work in ME3 like EA wanted. I ques they could have tryed from allmost start to get MP in, but game doesn't seem to be design for it from start. Other ways there would NEVER been difficulties to make MP work with ME3 or am i mistaken?

Point been I don't think MP was in ME3 from start, like bots doesn't have to be. They allready have some AI for bots, because ME3 is design in team (of 3) gameplay even when soloing. it just wasn't design for player teams, but npcs where there from start.

Modifié par Lumikki, 22 octobre 2011 - 10:15 .

[Bogsnot1]

James_Raynor wrote...

Bots are good if you lack people to play with, it sucks to be effectively locked out of content because you don't have friends who own a gaming computer and are interested (and own) mass effect 3.

How can you be locked out of content, if you can do the same thing in SP mode?
You are no more "locked out of content" for not playing MP, as you are "locked out of content" for not purchasing the Collector Edition.

[cindercatz]

I'm pro-bots, mainly because there are a whole lot of people online I wouldn't want to be stuck playing MP with, and they probably wouldn't with me either. Unless you have a good number of game player friends who happen to regularly play at all hours day and night, bots are nice to have, and they can only improve the MP missions play experience. Honestly, I'm likely to be playing it at three and four in the morning, even if I do have enough friends playing MP at other hours, and I don't want to get stuck having to solo a mission impossible where I've got enemies constantly coming in behind me.

And I want never to be stuck recruiting an online idiot who thinks it's funny to try and cuss me or throw insults around just to try and get somebody upset on the internet, or because they didn't like some opinion I posted somewhere ten years ago. It seems I run into that kind of crap a heck of a lot more than I run into people I like playing with.

And no, playing SP does not make up for being unable to play MP for some reason. You still miss out on what should be pretty strong game content, that you paid for when you bought the game. The entire game should be available, no matter how you play it.

[diamondedge]

Are you stupid? Having bots defeats the whole idea of multiplayer. It's called MULTIPLAYER FOR A REASON!

[Arppis]

I wouldn't mind it... as long as it doesn't interupt with the game delopment too much. ALSO what if a lot of your friends are not going to buy the game? You don't get to experience these missions (no I will not play with randoms, that's for Player vs Player games). It would be nice add. Because these missions might be fun and you'd just be missing content otherwise.

But as I said, only if it doesn't take power away from the entire game. Or hell... just give me split screen option! That would solve a lot of problems. No need for Bots then.

EDIT: But, if you really can do them with Shepard, that's supa fine...

Modifié par Arppis, 22 octobre 2011 - 11:04 .

[Lumikki]

diamondedge wrote...

Having bots defeats the whole idea of multiplayer. It's called MULTIPLAYER FOR A REASON!

In SINGLE PLAYER GAME?
It's question what kind of game ME3 is?
Who's the target customers?

If game would been design to be MP, then having bots would be bad thing, but that's not the case with ME3. ME3's main point is provide single player game and secondary allow them to experience MP, if they want. Meaning the main point of ME3 isn't multiplaying, so it's not smart to treat ME3 like it's full blood multiplayer game.

AI bots allowing single players, who are the target customers, to experience all game content what they buyed. That isn't bad thing. In my opinion it has never been good thing to FORCE players to do what they don't want, in any game. If people want to multiplay, they will do it and it's that way better to everyone. AI bots doesn't prevent it to happen. Do you really wanna force players to MP on single player game?

Modifié par Lumikki, 22 octobre 2011 - 11:17 .